Reading Mein kampf in Bombay

[MarxSchmarx]

Apparently nazi paraphernalia is a hit among the young in India, many of who pay lipservice to the holocaust:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/8660064.stm

I am very curious about what comrades who have spent time in India think about this. This is actually something I've noticed, in varying degrees, throughout the 3rd world. There is an idolization, almost fetishizing, of I guess what can only be called the foreignness and even exoticness of how germanic culture is viewed in some quarters. For example in slavic countries I have come across people that are very "proud" of what they see as "their" viking/scandinavian heritage, and in Latin America I have met people with recent northern European immigrant relatives who are quick to emphasize that point, even if they are at the bottom of the socioeconomic order.

A lot of "Anglo-Saxon values" like "patriotism" and being "free of litter" (as the article calls it) are supposed northern European values distinct from the local cultural traditions. Maybe it's a "grass is greener on the other side" sort of thing, but it strikes me as depressing that not a few individuals think that the points about the "unwashed masses" applies to their own people.

[black magick hustla]

there are mexican neonazis too. the problem is that they probably amount to three people and their cat i suspect its the same in india. this is more of a petty curiosity than real political significance

[Rjevan]

There is an article at Spiegel Online about the same phenomenon in Pakistan: http://www.spiegel.de/international/zeitgeist/0,1518,683966,00.html
The author thinks the reason is that Hitler is seen as "the bold Führer who took on the British and American [oppressors]" and I think there is also some "he initiated the rebirth of the shattered German people and nation"-propaganda which causes the admiration.
Hitler and the Third Reich are also portrayed in a worryingly positive way in Indian school books, as this article (http://www.spiegel.de/unispiegel/wunderbar/0,1518,320847,00.html) (German) from 2004 shows.

As maldoror says, at the moment it seems to be more of a disturbing "fashionable trend", like the Hitler's Cross Café (http://www.spiegel.de/fotostrecke/fotostrecke-52906.html) in Bombay suggests. But that's really bad enough and I really hope those students mentioned in the BBC article won't take their misguided admiration for a fascist and racist butcher into politics.

[Sankofa]

Fascism is very fashionable among the rich classes and upper castes in India.

Related articles:
http://indianterrorism.bravepages.com/fascism%20as%20hindutva.htm
http://indianterrorism.bravepages.com/aroy2.htm

Seems to be the same way in South Korea

http://www.time.com/time/asia/magazine/2000/0605/southkorea.trouble.html

[tbasherizer]

The pseudo-religion that the Nazis made up had it that the Aryans either invaded India and left some remnants there, or that they originated from there (It depends who you ask). This might have some bearing on some people in India's fixation with Hitler and the Nazis.

[Raúl Duke]

Seems to be the same way in South Korea

http://www.time.com/time/asia/magazine/2000/0605/southkorea.trouble.html

Umm...that articles doesn't really state that actual Nazi ideology is big among the upper classes...just that there's a cultural fixation towards Nazi imagery. Japan has a similar fixation, particularly noted in manga/anime, and probably first than the Koreans.

[Dimentio]

I think the admiration seems to be mutual.

http://www.savitridevi.org/lightning-contents.html

[Adi Shankara]

Umm...that articles doesn't really state that actual Nazi ideology is big among the upper classes...just that there's a cultural fixation towards Nazi imagery. Japan has a similar fixation, particularly noted in manga/anime, and probably first than the Koreans.

I don't know if it's really direct nazism though--it seems like they're trying to be "rebellious", because Nazism, while negative all over the world, is generally unexperienced in Japan and the Koreas, so I guess the best way to appear "dangerous" is to worship the nazis...I mean look at the reasons they give: "they dressed well", lol what kind've excuse is that...

[Bad Grrrl Agro]

Dimple Kumari, a research associate in Pune, has not read Mein Kampf but she would wear the Hitler T-shirt out of admiration for him. She calls him "a legend" and tries to put her admiration for him in perspective: "The killing of Jews was not good, but everybody has a positive and negative side."
Need I point out how ridiculous that is?

In a mocking voice:
"Killing jews wasn't such a good thing but I can deal with it because he had good discipline, and everyone else he killed deserved it." :rolleyes:

Back to my regular voice:
"What a dumb wench, spewing out such bullshit."

[Wolf Larson]

the eugenics movment is still alive and well. these are the people who are trying to 'create a master race'. hitler drew inspiration from american eugenicists....after ww2 they had to hide the agenga- give it a happy face. these are the real scum fucks, although some confused idiot nazi kids in the streets are scum fucks as well:)

as late as the 1970's thousands of native american women were unknowingly sterilized. no CT or anything silly like that.

[jake williams]

The short answer is that the nature of class struggle in India, with extreme inequality and with tight proximity between a very few wealthy people and a billion extremely poor people, makes fascism an appealing ideology to the ruling class. What other choice do they have?

In Latin America, with similar social and economic conditions in many places to that of India, fascism is given an additional bump by the fact that a lot of the white ruling class is quite recently descendant from Nazis, disappointed that they might not get to run Germany (or Italy) and looking for somewhere else to colonize.

[Comrade Wolfie's Very Nearly Banned Adventures]

It probably helped that Nazi germany fought against India's former overlords the British.

[red cat]

Presently much of the popularity of Nazism and fascism among the Indian upper classes comes as a natural reaction to the ongoing people's war. With the advancement of the revolution, the oppressed masses and communities are slowly but steadily destroying the old order. Therefore, statements such as "India needs a military rule", "the huge population is responsible for the misery of the nation", "tribals are hindering development by clinging on to natural resources" etc are being popularized to justify the government's recurring economic failures and its military actions against the masses.

[Milk Sheikh]

Presently much of the popularity of Nazism and fascism among the Indian upper classes comes as a natural reaction to the ongoing people's war. With the advancement of the revolution, the oppressed masses and communities are slowly but steadily destroying the old order. Therefore, statements such as "India needs a military rule", "the huge population is responsible for the misery of the nation", "tribals are hindering development by clinging on to natural resources" etc are being popularized to justify the government's recurring economic failures and its military actions against the masses.

Good point, but it's not merely the rich, upper-class people; even upper-caste Indians who are poor hate the tribals and blame them for their problems. They hardly ever complain about the government taxing them, corruption and all that. The lower-castes are their favorite whipping boy.

[red cat]

Good point, but it's not merely the rich, upper-class people; even upper-caste Indians who are poor hate the tribals and blame them for their problems. They hardly ever complain about the government taxing them, corruption and all that. The lower-castes are their favorite whipping boy.

Agreed. But what we mean by a "poor" upper caste is really at most someone from the lower middle class. True poverty, which forces one to starve or eat grass and insects, is very rarely or may be not at all experienced by upper caste Indians.

[Milk Sheikh]

Agreed. But what we mean by a "poor" upper caste is really at most someone from the lower middle class. True poverty, which forces one to starve or eat grass and insects, is very rarely or may be not at all experienced by upper caste Indians.

Regarding this, are there stats I can show people whenever they argue that upper-castes are as poor as the rest? Normally they brush it aside by saying low-caste population is huge and hence their poverty rate is going to be that much higher. Also stats for minorities would help.

[red cat]

Regarding this, are there stats I can show people whenever they argue that upper-castes are as poor as the rest? Normally they brush it aside by saying low-caste population is huge and hence their poverty rate is going to be that much higher. Also stats for minorities would help.

Why should the poverty rate of low castes be higher if their population is huge ? I think what you want to say is that since their population is higher, the number of poor low-castes is also high. But then by the same logic, there should be many more rich lower-castes compared to the upper castes too. This can be negated by conducting a survey in any neighbourhood or workplace.

[Luís Henrique]

In Latin America, with similar social and economic conditions in many places to that of India, fascism is given an additional bump by the fact that a lot of the white ruling class is quite recently descendant from Nazis, disappointed that they might not get to run Germany (or Italy) and looking for somewhere else to colonize.

Seems an interesting planet that one where you live. How can we get there?

Luís Henrique

[Sir Comradical]

From the article: "The killing of Jews was not good, but everybody has a positive and negative side"...Jesus Fucking Christ.


Presently much of the popularity of Nazism and fascism among the Indian upper classes comes as a natural reaction to the ongoing people's war. With the advancement of the revolution, the oppressed masses and communities are slowly but steadily destroying the old order. Therefore, statements such as "India needs a military rule", "the huge population is responsible for the misery of the nation", "tribals are hindering development by clinging on to natural resources" etc are being popularized to justify the government's recurring economic failures and its military actions against the masses.

This is exactly it. My uncle in India reads Mein Kampf, quotes Hitler and tells me about the discipline that fascism can bring to society. It's definitely an upper-class, upper-caste fascination with domination and control.

Case in point, this restaurant in Bombay.

http://heathenworld.com/swastika/Images/hitlers_cross_mumbai.jpg

http://img246.imageshack.us/img246/2369/zuh8.jpg

[Sir Comradical]

It probably helped that Nazi germany fought against India's former overlords the British.

This is also true. Needless to say, the Hindu-right adores Hitler.

Interview with Bal Thackeray, leader of the Shiva-Sena.

FjkkMhfwUsw

[Milk Sheikh]

This is also true. Needless to say, the Hindu-right adores Hitler.

Interview with Bal Thackeray, leader of the Shiva-Sena.

FjkkMhfwUsw

There's yet another reason: opposites attract. India has a history of being conquered over and over. So when they come across someone like Hitler or Napoleon, they're going to be fascinated because those men were so unlike the Indians; they're the exact opposite of Indian history.

Soldiers marching through the streets, leaders giving fiery speeches, armies conquering foreign territories ... all this could be romantic, at least for a country like India, which cannot exactly boast of military conquests.

[NKVD]

Hahaha "We didn't burn the shops. They are destroyed."

[Sir Comradical]

Hahaha "We didn't burn the shops. They are destroyed."

Or better yet - "if you don't want riots, see that we remain there forever...no riots". Damn son, where's the NKVD when you need them?

[Rousedruminations]

Not surprised at all, at one stage i was calling my mother adolf hitler, that is how addressed her.