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JTB
17th June 2010, 10:10
http://www.revleft.com/vb/showpost.php?p=1772556&postcount=71




Every time one of the idiots here says 'oh no, he's not a liberal', I woner whether they've ever read this::

2. Without freedom there can be no Socialism. Socialism can be achieved only through democracy. Democracy can be fully realised only through Socialism.
3. Democracy is government of the people, by the people, for the people. It must secure:
a. The right of every human being to a private life, protected from arbitrary invasion by the state.
b. Political liberties like freedom of thought, expression, education, organisation and religion.
c. The representation of the people through free elections, under universal, equal and secret franchise.
d. Government by the majority and respect for the rights of the minority.
e. The equality before the law of all citizens, whatever their birth, sex, language, creed and colour.
f. Right to cultural autonomy for groups with their own language.
g. An independent judiciary system; every man must have the right to a public trial before an impartial tribunal by due process of law.




I have my concerns with f and a few other specifics, but it well outlines the differences between the communists (totalitarians) and socialists




7. Meanwhile, as Socialism advances throughout the world, new forces have arisen to threaten the movement towards freedom and social justice. Since the Bolshevik Revolution in Russia, Communism has split the International Labour Movement and has set back the realisation of Socialism in many countries for decades.
8. Communism falsely claims a share in the Socialist tradition. In fact it has distorted that tradition beyond recognition. It has built up a rigid theology which is incompatible with the critical spirit of Marxism.
9. Where Socialists aim to achieve freedom and justice by removing the exploitation which divides men under capitalism, Communists seek to sharpen those class divisions only in order to establish the dictatorship of a single party.
10. International Communism is the instrument of a new imperialism. Wherever it has achieved power it has destroyed freedom or the chance of gaining freedom. It is based on a militarist bureaucracy and a terrorist police. By producing glaring contrasts of wealth and privilege it has created a new class society. Forced labour plays an important part in its economic organisation.







AIMS AND TASKS OF DEMOCRATIC SOCIALISM (http://www.socialistinternational.org/viewArticle.cfm?ArticleID=39)



:thumbup1:

MarxSchmarx
18th June 2010, 08:02
Och aye, since you had to quote those reactionaries at length, why couldn't it have sufficed with this succinct exclamation by one Michael B.:


'Freedom without Socialism is privilege and injustice, but socialism without freedom is slavery and brutality'

GreenCommunism
18th June 2010, 08:44
east german was fucking a-okay about free speech, though i guess you couldn't swear and insult officials you could very well criticize them as much as you wanted. as for the stasi most of the files they kept on people were empty, more than 3/4 of it.

Demogorgon
18th June 2010, 17:24
you could very well criticize them as much as you wanted.
Not if you wanted to be promoted at work you couldn't.

danyboy27
18th June 2010, 19:38
as for the stasi most of the files they kept on people were empty, more than 3/4 of it.

care to back this shit up pal?

this is an invasion
19th June 2010, 08:50
http://www.revleft.com/vb/showpost.php?p=1772556&postcount=71




Every time one of the idiots here says 'oh no, he's not a liberal', I woner whether they've ever read this::

2. Without freedom there can be no Socialism. Socialism can be achieved only through democracy. Democracy can be fully realised only through Socialism.
3. Democracy is government of the people, by the people, for the people. It must secure:
a. The right of every human being to a private life, protected from arbitrary invasion by the state.
b. Political liberties like freedom of thought, expression, education, organisation and religion.
c. The representation of the people through free elections, under universal, equal and secret franchise.
d. Government by the majority and respect for the rights of the minority.
e. The equality before the law of all citizens, whatever their birth, sex, language, creed and colour.
f. Right to cultural autonomy for groups with their own language.
g. An independent judiciary system; every man must have the right to a public trial before an impartial tribunal by due process of law.




I have my concerns with f and a few other specifics, but it well outlines the differences between the communists (totalitarians) and socialists




7. Meanwhile, as Socialism advances throughout the world, new forces have arisen to threaten the movement towards freedom and social justice. Since the Bolshevik Revolution in Russia, Communism has split the International Labour Movement and has set back the realisation of Socialism in many countries for decades.
8. Communism falsely claims a share in the Socialist tradition. In fact it has distorted that tradition beyond recognition. It has built up a rigid theology which is incompatible with the critical spirit of Marxism.
9. Where Socialists aim to achieve freedom and justice by removing the exploitation which divides men under capitalism, Communists seek to sharpen those class divisions only in order to establish the dictatorship of a single party.
10. International Communism is the instrument of a new imperialism. Wherever it has achieved power it has destroyed freedom or the chance of gaining freedom. It is based on a militarist bureaucracy and a terrorist police. By producing glaring contrasts of wealth and privilege it has created a new class society. Forced labour plays an important part in its economic organisation.







AIMS AND TASKS OF DEMOCRATIC SOCIALISM (http://www.socialistinternational.org/viewArticle.cfm?ArticleID=39)



:thumbup1:

tl;dr

Glenn Beck
19th June 2010, 10:08
Please tell me you've been in cold storage since 1920 and have only just recently been defrosted.

Muzk
19th June 2010, 10:15
care to back this shit up pal?


[11:13] greencommunism: yes stasi files 3/4 empty
[11:13] muzk: proof
[11:13] greencommunism: yes they were
[11:14] muzk: ?
[11:14] greencommunism: hmm will look who said it on another forum
[11:14] muzk: WHAT THE FUCK
[11:14] muzk: forum posts as evidence
[11:14] greencommunism: ? what the fuck what
[11:14] greencommunism: no
[11:14] greencommunism: its not an evidence
[11:14] greencommunism: someone said it to me soiwill ask him for source

this is an invasion
19th June 2010, 11:33
[11:13] greencommunism: yes stasi files 3/4 empty
[11:13] muzk: proof
[11:13] greencommunism: yes they were
[11:14] muzk: ?
[11:14] greencommunism: hmm will look who said it on another forum
[11:14] muzk: WHAT THE FUCK
[11:14] muzk: forum posts as evidence
[11:14] greencommunism: ? what the fuck what
[11:14] greencommunism: no
[11:14] greencommunism: its not an evidence
[11:14] greencommunism: someone said it to me soiwill ask him for source
lolllllllllllllll

omfg

GreenCommunism
19th June 2010, 19:55
??? well sorry i forgot this thread. i am not 100% sure but someone did tell me this and i didn't come up with it. if it isn't true then i will change my mind.

muzk is such a little *censored*, how do you negrep people? all he does is ***** about stalinism like a good little trollsky crybaby then leave before i answer some more of cry me a river bullshit.

Edit: i used the b word, i apologized i just edited it to remove it, why didn't i just edit it and shut up. well i dunno.

GreenCommunism
19th June 2010, 19:57
Not if you wanted to be promoted at work you couldn't.

maybe... but you can criticize your boss in the current system and get promoted? really? well i guess you can, but he probably doesn't feel like it that much since last time you made fun of his tie.

danyboy27
20th June 2010, 18:11
??? well sorry i forgot this thread. i am not 100% sure but someone did tell me this and i didn't come up with it. if it isn't true then i will change my mind.

muzk is such a little *censored*, how do you negrep people? all he does is ***** about stalinism like a good little trollsky crybaby then leave before i answer some more of cry me a river bullshit.

Edit: i used the b word, i apologized i just edited it to remove it, why didn't i just edit it and shut up. well i dunno.
bourgeois lies!

if i where you i would be verry careful what other ''educated'' revlefter say here.

look at my signature for further exemple.

JTB
24th June 2010, 17:25
tl;dr


So you're using your laziness and illiteracy as your defense? :laugh: