A Interesting Idea

[RedScare]

American leftists should find this quite interesting.

http://trueslant.com/matthewfleischer/2010/05/17/saturday-night-socialist-happy-hour-a-blueprint-for-a-modern-american-socialist-movement/

[Invincible Summer]

The building of a commune part I'm not so sure about, but the breakfast program and other public service works are definitely a good idea.

However, moving such public service works into the next level: being more than a charity. Now that's the big problem. I mean, Food Not Bombs basically does that food kitchen thing, but they're not too politicized (at least around here), and not more than a fringe thing.

[Slavoj Zizzle]

The left in the United States is for all intents and purposes dead. The right wing for 70 years has launched an anti-socialism propaganda campaign and for 30 years launched an anti-social justice pro-corporate infiltration of the media/public consciousness. Any analysis of a strategy for socialism in the country with by far the largest and most powerful media and entertainment industry has to take into account the power of the bourgeoisie to convince the proletariat to act against their best interests through media and at the very least distract them from the real world.

Basically this article is crap because it's still stuck in the 1960s. Any real socialist movement has to destroy the right wing control of the media (and no not just fox news), control over proletariat philosophy and economics (which has shifted more and more towards ayn rand garbage), and control over education/history (especially education about socialism in the U.S.). Reclaiming black/latino marxism which has been lost is necessary as I fear white people may be too privileged to actually sacrifice anything for real change.

Whatever strategy the remnants of the left choose in the U.S., it's going to take a while and that's the fact that is lost on most people. The right wing took decades working from the ground up to reclaim power while the left squabbled and compromised, and the left is going to have to do the same thing.

[it_ain't_me]

All well and good, but I failed to see how any of these issues differentiated the socialists from any other casually liberal Californian. Practically every Democrat in the state supports the same things. well, that is the ISO for you. :)

[DaringMehring]

This guy is right on. "Contemporary socialism is all about Mumia and Palestine and impotent rage." So true. I might have some quibble with what he says here or there, but his basic message, that you have to start in your community, and direct action to help people is the road to building success rather than slogan-mongering and flyer-pushing.

[it_ain't_me]

This guy is right on. ''Contemporary socialism is all about Mumia and Palestine and impotent rage.'' So true. I might have some quibble with what he says here or there, but his basic message, that you have to start in your community, and direct action to help people is the road to building success rather than slogan-mongering and flyer-pushing.

well, he's definitely correct to point out that socialists (especially pinko liberal champagne socialists--er, excuse me, pinko liberal 'happy hour socialists') aren't making a modicum of difference in politics at the national level in the united states. but the question of whether socialists therefore need to make their vision smaller (and become community activists) or bigger (and look to radical left movements overseas that have an actual chance of being successful, even while things in the u.s. remain politically stagnant) is still an open question. the author, not being a socialist, says that socialists should go with the former option; i, as a socialist, opt for the latter.

[¿Que?]

I thought initially that such a direct action would immediately be confronted with the police. For one, you're going to have a lot of disadvantaged groups hanging around, which will inevitably bring attention from the police (the police serve the interest of profit and if disadvantaged and working people begin to seriously organize then they will inevitably clash).

But instructing young people how to hack is going to seriously put your organization over the line. You might want to save the hacking lessons for the truly committed members, that way you know they're not going learn those skills and try to rob a bank or something. In fact, what's the whole point of teaching them to hack in the first place? Are they going to cyber attack stuff. hm....

But overall, an interesting article. I wouldn't be so harsh on the ISO, though, they do a lot of good organizing.

I like the idea of creating community spaces. One thing you could do is teach ESL courses to immigrants. You'd want to do it for free, though, and unconditionally. I know some organizations offer such services for a small membership fee. It's a good way to raise money, but I think ideally you'd want to provide that free of charge and unconditionally.

This also somewhat reminds me of Marx's criticism of Utopian socialism but flipped on its head. Marx rejected the commune type organization that is supposed to exist outside the system, because as a materialist, he believed the overthrow of capitalism comes from the conditions of capitalism themselves, not so much by the whole "be the change you want to see" approach.

[bcbm]

The left in the United States is for all intents and purposes dead. The right wing for 70 years has launched an anti-socialism propaganda campaign and for 30 years launched an anti-social justice pro-corporate infiltration of the media/public consciousness. Any analysis of a strategy for socialism in the country with by far the largest and most powerful media and entertainment industry has to take into account the power of the bourgeoisie to convince the proletariat to act against their best interests through media and at the very least distract them from the real world.

Basically this article is crap because it's still stuck in the 1960s. Any real socialist movement has to destroy the right wing control of the media (and no not just fox news), control over proletariat philosophy and economics (which has shifted more and more towards ayn rand garbage), and control over education/history (especially education about socialism in the U.S.). Reclaiming black/latino marxism which has been lost is necessary as I fear white people may be too privileged to actually sacrifice anything for real change.

so basically you're saying that the bourgeoisie have been using the media as a weapon against traditional socialist organization and pretty much destroyed it and that we therefore need to somehow take down this extremely powerful propaganda machine using methods almost identical to those crushed by it and eventually this will defeat it and return socialist organizations to... exactly where they where at the start of this process? in the face of a hostile bourgeoisie who presumably want their media control back?

i think in light of that strategy the "organize locally, dissolve capitalist relations as much as possible and spread across the territory as far as possible" method seems pretty reasonable.


but the question of whether socialists therefore need to make their vision smaller (and become community activists) or bigger (and look to radical left movements overseas that have an actual chance of being successful, even while things in the u.s. remain politically stagnant) is still an open question. the author, not being a socialist, says that socialists should go with the former option; i, as a socialist, opt for the latter.

so the socialist response to a multitude of problems that are having effects in their immediate community is to keep an eye on what is going on overseas instead of fighting in their community? wow, no wonder americans hate you.

[RedSonRising]

It's the way to start. It should not be the only type of activism-the left cannot isolate itself from national politics, either- but the revolution is the work of the working class themselves, and politicizing them through education while simultaneously providing hands-on daily relief such as basic medical care, internet access, and breakfast programs are absolutely the way to go. In fact, I can't imagine anything happening without this type of activism. Reach out, help people, teach people, grow.

[graymouser]

The article hammers pretty hard on the collective living idea, which has actually been tried by a number of groups, either voluntarily or otherwise (i.e. a lot of times small groups of ex-college students wind up living together out of necessity). Unfortunately it's chock full of unhealthy social dynamics: people wind up having sex with each other, relationships get nasty, internal disputes carry over into political disputes, and it's fertile breeding ground for cult-like bullshit. Especially when you try and link it with a voluntarist asceticism like the one described.

As far as having a direct, local emphasis - well, this has been tried. In the US the most electoral success was with the "sewer socialists" in Milwaukee, who had a clear local focus. The result tends to be that any political edge is blunted, and a sort of narrow-minded parochialism sets in. That's what happens when a small group tries to be influential in local politics. Also, in the modern age you'd be competing with NGOs and CBOs who get paid to do this kind of stuff. It's not that medium and large-sized parties won't do community oriented politics, but left groups in the US come in two sizes, tiny and minuscule, and for them it just doesn't have the numbers or the money to work out.

[Zoster]

This article is mostly lifestylist bullshit.

[RedSonRising]

The article hammers pretty hard on the collective living idea, which has actually been tried by a number of groups, either voluntarily or otherwise (i.e. a lot of times small groups of ex-college students wind up living together out of necessity). Unfortunately it's chock full of unhealthy social dynamics: people wind up having sex with each other, relationships get nasty, internal disputes carry over into political disputes, and it's fertile breeding ground for cult-like bullshit. Especially when you try and link it with a voluntarist asceticism like the one described.

As far as having a direct, local emphasis - well, this has been tried. In the US the most electoral success was with the "sewer socialists" in Milwaukee, who had a clear local focus. The result tends to be that any political edge is blunted, and a sort of narrow-minded parochialism sets in. That's what happens when a small group tries to be influential in local politics. Also, in the modern age you'd be competing with NGOs and CBOs who get paid to do this kind of stuff. It's not that medium and large-sized parties won't do community oriented politics, but left groups in the US come in two sizes, tiny and minuscule, and for them it just doesn't have the numbers or the money to work out.

The above concerns you stated are important considerations, but I'm not sure the author meant living together in a literally communal sense, but within the same apartment building or living complex. Also, while local engagement is important, the left cannot isolate themselves from the large scale of activism either. Left parties are sadly small, but this is why coordinate and cooperation are so important.

I don't think any activism without an engagement with working class communities is going to achieve any short-term or long-term support for spreading ideas of proletarian autonomy.

[Jimmie Higgins]

This article is classic armchair criticism... "I'm not doing anything to build the left, but here's how the left gets everything wrong and what they should be doing". In short I'd tell him, put up or shut the hell up. If he thinks his ideas can build the left, then go for it and we'll see which tactics and methods of organizing yield the best results. If I felt that being a hippie and living communally worked better, then I would give my month's notice to my landlord today. The type of from the sidelines criticism of leftists in the article can be, and have been, used against almost any group active today from anarchists to the RCP. but since this one was directed at the organization I have devoted my energies to organizing, then I will respond to some of his claims.

He criticizes the ISO for "ineffectual support of Mumia" when (although we totally support the movement for Mumia and his release) he is not the main focus of our organizing around criminal justice... we are focused on the death penalty and in Oakland regularly work with family members of people on Death Row as and have members who are in regular contact and visits with Kevin Cooper, Victor Vargas and others. Our members were involved in the LOCAL movement around Oscar Grant's murder in my (working class, immigrant) neighborhood - yeah, none of us live in working class areas:rolleyes:. We have had Grant's family members and Jack Bryson speak at many of our local meetings - and Jack, through his good experiences with us has become a leftist who supports things like LGBT rights when he didn't before.

Not organizing locally: The ISO isn't against any local actions, in fact, the bulk of our organizing is local - but we see it as important not to leave local issues disconnected from the larger realities in of the system. In Oakland our members have worked with other groups and individuals in the Oscar Grant campaign as I have said; our branch which meets at a local community college helped organize a student movement against cuts and has won the respect of the Black Student Union and they know we are sincere about what we are doing; our members worked along with a few green party people and some groups of anarchists to counter-protest the local Minuteman group in Fremont when they stood at an intersection of a heavily middle eastern immigrant community spewing their xenophobic bullshit; we organized a food drive after Katrina happened; when some anarchists wanted to protest the Richmond oil refineries we added our support and protested with them; we went out every morning to picket with locked-out waste-management workers, supported and picketed with Woodfin workers... well anyway, tons of local stuff and I don't think I need to go into more examples.

The problems of foreclosures and police brutality or pollution of working class communities is not simply a local problem - these are connected to the way this system works and so connecting the daily bullshit that people face with the class struggle throughout our society is essential to building a self-conscious working class movement that fights on a class basis rather than fights X boss in one town X local government in another and so on.

Grassroots organizing at campuses and workplaces is exactly what we focus on - spending our limited political time (after work and school and laundry and all the other shit) on a community garden or whatnot would be a poor use of our time IMO. When we have 50-80 members in Oakland then there would probably be lots of time to create permanent social organizations for workers - I'd love to see a socialist soccer team that plays with the neighborhood teams where I live.

The ISO isn't perfect, the left is far from perfect, but I think a lot of people out there are trying to figure out how to reconnect radical politics with the working class... we also try and learn from what works and what doesn't. But there are pleanty of people out yuppie areas like Berkeley or Santa Monica "thinking local" and starting community gardens and charity works but - more people than are committed working class revolutionaries - and yet, they don't seem to be drawing masses of dissatisfied workers either. In my view there are no magic formulas or short-cuts to mass radicalization and aside from short periods of time when huge amounts of people become radical (like 1934-early 40s or the labor wars of the 1870s or 1968-1974) so in non-revolutionary times, membership of radical organizations is going to be low and going to be making connections by the 2s and 3s not the dozens.

Please correct me if any groups out there are radicalizing people by the scores - and tell me their secret!