Dr Mindbender
16th June 2010, 21:24
Looking for counter arguments please.
http://www.angelfire.com/folk/ulster_explained/history.htm
''HISTORY OF ULSTER
Historically there has never been an independent, united state on the geographical island of 'Ireland'; there is no historical precedent for Irish nationalist / republican demands for a united Ireland. It has never existed and does not exist today.
Ulster has always been culturally separate and distinct from the rest of the island. Ulidia, from where the name Ulster derives, existed long before an Irish nation came into being. In reality, the Irish perception of themselves as a nation only emerged into the Irish psyche in the 19th century with the fusion of Catholic emancipation and Gaelic nationalism under Daniel O' Connell.
Ulidia had it's own capital - Emain Macha, kings and border (the Black Pigs Dyke) in ancient times. The people were the ancient Cruthin and Ulaid - as recorded by a Greek geographer in the 2nd century A.D. This nation came under attack from Gaelic lead peoples from Ireland. The semi historical / mythical Tain describes this period telling how Ulster people came under attack by peoples from the south in a cattle raid and how Ulster was defended by her ancient hero - Setanta.
http://www.angelfire.com/folk/ulster_explained/SETANTA.jpg
Setanta - Ancient Hero of Ulster.
Ulster is not to be confused with the English province; it was under Elizabeth the First that the Provinces were drawn up as administrative boundaries. Irish nationalists who refuse to recognise a separate Ulster and proclaim they do not recognise 'British borders in Ireland' will often dishonourably dismiss Ulster as merely an Irish province - recognising a 'British border in Ireland' . Unfortunately a debate by the 'Northern Ireland' parliament in the 1960s to counter this confusion by renaming the country Ulster - it's rightful name - never came to fruition.
Gradually the Ulster capital fell (around 450 A.D.) and Ulster became a much reduced nation as it's border moved eastwards. In fact many of these ancient Ulster people, who the Romans called Scotti, fled across the North Channel and gave this name to Scotland. It was these peoples who had absorbed Gaelic from their overlords that gave Scotland this language.
In 637 the Ulstermen / Ulidians were defeated at the battle of Moira, and although they retained independence in the east of Ulster, this was the end of ancient Ulster.
http://www.angelfire.com/folk/ulster_explained/BMOIRA.jpg
Depiction of the Battle of Moira
Viking raids on the Island were followed by the Normans, who had recently seized the crown in England. These had been invited by a deposed king in eastern Ireland and the then Pope who had instructed the English crown to civilise Ireland. Irish nationalists often speak of 900 years of English interference in their affairs; in reality the 'invasion' of gable wall myth was by Norman French who were accompanied by many Welsh - in fact Walsh is the most common surname in Ireland.
This 'English invasion' reflects how myths can become official Irish history. In reality those who came to Ireland did so by invitation, were French not English and stayed under the authority of the Pope.
Ulster fell to the Normans in 1177 A.D., then to the Gaelic led clans in 1381. However resentment against the Normans and further English conquest continued and Gaelic rebellion resulted in 1594. Eventually the English forces were victorious in 1601. This led to the Plantation of Ulster in the 17th century. Many who came to Ulster were from Scotland who were, not displacing the natives, but returning to the land of their ancient forefathers. In fact many intermarried w ith those in Ulster as comparison of surnames and religion today testifies. The settlers were mainly Presbyterian.
James II who had accessed the English crown, was forced to abdicate and William, Prince of Orange, was proclaimed King. In 1690 William defeated King James at the Battle of the Boyne, an event still celebrated in Ulster today as it allowed the Ulster people to remain a free people.
http://www.angelfire.com/folk/ulster_explained/WPO.jpg
William, Prince of Orange.
http://www.angelfire.com/folk/ulster_explained/BOB.jpg
Scene from the Battle of the Boyne.
18th Century laws discriminating against the Presbyterian religion and forbidding Presbyterians from holding public office led a quarter of a million Ulster people to flee to America- particularly to Pennsylvania, W. Virginia, Kentucky and Carolina. The Americans called these people 'Scotch-Irish' - in those days Americans appreciated the difference between Ulster and Irish people.
Ulster people were in the vanguard of the inception of the new nation. They were the first pioneers west of the Appalachians. They were predominant in the declaration of Independence of 1776. The declaration was in the handwriting of, printed by, first publicly read by, and signed by Ulstermen. Ten Presidents have been of Ulster descent. Ulster has also influenced place names and music (bluegrass).
Ulster people were predominant in the revolutionary war such that Washington declared 'if defeated everywhere else I will make my stand for liberty among the Scotch-Irish of my native Virginia'.
A revolutionary poem by W.F.Marshall is evocative of this contribution:
Hi Uncle Sam When Freedom was denied you
And Imperial Might defied you
Who was it stood beside you
At Quebec and Brandywine?
And dared retreats and dangers
Red Coats and Hessian Strangers
In the lean, long rifled Rangers
And the Pennsylvania Line!
Hi Uncle Sam Wherever there was fighting
Or wrong that needed righting
An Ulsterman was sighting
His Kentucky gun with care:
All the road to Yorktown,
From Lexington to Yorktown,
From Valley Forge to Yorktown,
That Ulsterman was there!
Hi Uncle Sam Virginia sent her brave men,
The north paraded grave men,
That they may not be slave men,
But ponder this with calm:
The first to face the Tory
And the first to lift Old Glory
Made your war an Ulster story:
Think it over, Uncle Sam!
An attempt at uniting the people of the Island under the United Irish rebellion of 1798 failed as it descended into sectarian in-fighting, Protestants not fitting the definition of Irish. The whole island, governed by London, was made part of the United Kingdom in 1801.
Catholic emancipation movements were formed and this fused with the Gaelic nationalist movement of the late 19th century to galvanise demands for a Gaelic, Catholic Republic. As Ulster people are neither Gaelic nor for the most part Catholic, they obviously wanted nothing to do with this - a point mostly ignored by Irish nationalists. Irish Republicans will often extol the Republican idealism of Patrick Pearse (one of the instigators of the Easter 1916 Rising and signatory of the Proclamation of Independence). Whilst therefore paying occasional lip service to the notional ideal that 'all who came to 'Ireland' - Protestant, Catholic and Dissenter - are Irish', they eulogise a man who defined Irishness as Gaelic and Catholic - betraying the underlying sectarian ethos of Irishness and Irish Republicanism.
The London government tried to appease growing Irish nationalism with a Home Rule Bill - to give Ireland limited self-government. The Ulster people mobilised to resist this, forming the Ulster Unionist Council and the Ulster Volunteer Force in 1912.
http://www.angelfire.com/folk/ulster_explained/HRPC.jpg
Anti Home Rule Postcard.
The First World War intervened and many Ulster and Irish men fought in the trenches. The 36th Ulster Division formed out of the UVF played a major role in the Battle of the Somme. The heavy losses affected all Ulster and the event has passed into the psyche of Ulster people.
http://www.angelfire.com/folk/ulster_explained/SOMME.jpg
Men of the 36th Ulster Division go over the top at the Somme.
The Irish then fought a war of Independence and in 1920 the Government of Ireland Act recognised the existence of two peoples and nations by setting up two states on the island, although Ulster was erroneously labelled Northern Ireland. This constitutional position by and large remains today. Therefore whilst Irish nationalists talk of the 'partition of Ireland by the British', the island never was one nation to be partitioned. It was merely governed as a whole under the British crown - ironically again Irish nationalists in Ulster are trying to recreate a British state of affairs on the island. When the Irish seceded from the United Kingdom, the Ulster people went there own way through their own inalienable right to national self-determination.
''
http://www.angelfire.com/folk/ulster_explained/history.htm
''HISTORY OF ULSTER
Historically there has never been an independent, united state on the geographical island of 'Ireland'; there is no historical precedent for Irish nationalist / republican demands for a united Ireland. It has never existed and does not exist today.
Ulster has always been culturally separate and distinct from the rest of the island. Ulidia, from where the name Ulster derives, existed long before an Irish nation came into being. In reality, the Irish perception of themselves as a nation only emerged into the Irish psyche in the 19th century with the fusion of Catholic emancipation and Gaelic nationalism under Daniel O' Connell.
Ulidia had it's own capital - Emain Macha, kings and border (the Black Pigs Dyke) in ancient times. The people were the ancient Cruthin and Ulaid - as recorded by a Greek geographer in the 2nd century A.D. This nation came under attack from Gaelic lead peoples from Ireland. The semi historical / mythical Tain describes this period telling how Ulster people came under attack by peoples from the south in a cattle raid and how Ulster was defended by her ancient hero - Setanta.
http://www.angelfire.com/folk/ulster_explained/SETANTA.jpg
Setanta - Ancient Hero of Ulster.
Ulster is not to be confused with the English province; it was under Elizabeth the First that the Provinces were drawn up as administrative boundaries. Irish nationalists who refuse to recognise a separate Ulster and proclaim they do not recognise 'British borders in Ireland' will often dishonourably dismiss Ulster as merely an Irish province - recognising a 'British border in Ireland' . Unfortunately a debate by the 'Northern Ireland' parliament in the 1960s to counter this confusion by renaming the country Ulster - it's rightful name - never came to fruition.
Gradually the Ulster capital fell (around 450 A.D.) and Ulster became a much reduced nation as it's border moved eastwards. In fact many of these ancient Ulster people, who the Romans called Scotti, fled across the North Channel and gave this name to Scotland. It was these peoples who had absorbed Gaelic from their overlords that gave Scotland this language.
In 637 the Ulstermen / Ulidians were defeated at the battle of Moira, and although they retained independence in the east of Ulster, this was the end of ancient Ulster.
http://www.angelfire.com/folk/ulster_explained/BMOIRA.jpg
Depiction of the Battle of Moira
Viking raids on the Island were followed by the Normans, who had recently seized the crown in England. These had been invited by a deposed king in eastern Ireland and the then Pope who had instructed the English crown to civilise Ireland. Irish nationalists often speak of 900 years of English interference in their affairs; in reality the 'invasion' of gable wall myth was by Norman French who were accompanied by many Welsh - in fact Walsh is the most common surname in Ireland.
This 'English invasion' reflects how myths can become official Irish history. In reality those who came to Ireland did so by invitation, were French not English and stayed under the authority of the Pope.
Ulster fell to the Normans in 1177 A.D., then to the Gaelic led clans in 1381. However resentment against the Normans and further English conquest continued and Gaelic rebellion resulted in 1594. Eventually the English forces were victorious in 1601. This led to the Plantation of Ulster in the 17th century. Many who came to Ulster were from Scotland who were, not displacing the natives, but returning to the land of their ancient forefathers. In fact many intermarried w ith those in Ulster as comparison of surnames and religion today testifies. The settlers were mainly Presbyterian.
James II who had accessed the English crown, was forced to abdicate and William, Prince of Orange, was proclaimed King. In 1690 William defeated King James at the Battle of the Boyne, an event still celebrated in Ulster today as it allowed the Ulster people to remain a free people.
http://www.angelfire.com/folk/ulster_explained/WPO.jpg
William, Prince of Orange.
http://www.angelfire.com/folk/ulster_explained/BOB.jpg
Scene from the Battle of the Boyne.
18th Century laws discriminating against the Presbyterian religion and forbidding Presbyterians from holding public office led a quarter of a million Ulster people to flee to America- particularly to Pennsylvania, W. Virginia, Kentucky and Carolina. The Americans called these people 'Scotch-Irish' - in those days Americans appreciated the difference between Ulster and Irish people.
Ulster people were in the vanguard of the inception of the new nation. They were the first pioneers west of the Appalachians. They were predominant in the declaration of Independence of 1776. The declaration was in the handwriting of, printed by, first publicly read by, and signed by Ulstermen. Ten Presidents have been of Ulster descent. Ulster has also influenced place names and music (bluegrass).
Ulster people were predominant in the revolutionary war such that Washington declared 'if defeated everywhere else I will make my stand for liberty among the Scotch-Irish of my native Virginia'.
A revolutionary poem by W.F.Marshall is evocative of this contribution:
Hi Uncle Sam When Freedom was denied you
And Imperial Might defied you
Who was it stood beside you
At Quebec and Brandywine?
And dared retreats and dangers
Red Coats and Hessian Strangers
In the lean, long rifled Rangers
And the Pennsylvania Line!
Hi Uncle Sam Wherever there was fighting
Or wrong that needed righting
An Ulsterman was sighting
His Kentucky gun with care:
All the road to Yorktown,
From Lexington to Yorktown,
From Valley Forge to Yorktown,
That Ulsterman was there!
Hi Uncle Sam Virginia sent her brave men,
The north paraded grave men,
That they may not be slave men,
But ponder this with calm:
The first to face the Tory
And the first to lift Old Glory
Made your war an Ulster story:
Think it over, Uncle Sam!
An attempt at uniting the people of the Island under the United Irish rebellion of 1798 failed as it descended into sectarian in-fighting, Protestants not fitting the definition of Irish. The whole island, governed by London, was made part of the United Kingdom in 1801.
Catholic emancipation movements were formed and this fused with the Gaelic nationalist movement of the late 19th century to galvanise demands for a Gaelic, Catholic Republic. As Ulster people are neither Gaelic nor for the most part Catholic, they obviously wanted nothing to do with this - a point mostly ignored by Irish nationalists. Irish Republicans will often extol the Republican idealism of Patrick Pearse (one of the instigators of the Easter 1916 Rising and signatory of the Proclamation of Independence). Whilst therefore paying occasional lip service to the notional ideal that 'all who came to 'Ireland' - Protestant, Catholic and Dissenter - are Irish', they eulogise a man who defined Irishness as Gaelic and Catholic - betraying the underlying sectarian ethos of Irishness and Irish Republicanism.
The London government tried to appease growing Irish nationalism with a Home Rule Bill - to give Ireland limited self-government. The Ulster people mobilised to resist this, forming the Ulster Unionist Council and the Ulster Volunteer Force in 1912.
http://www.angelfire.com/folk/ulster_explained/HRPC.jpg
Anti Home Rule Postcard.
The First World War intervened and many Ulster and Irish men fought in the trenches. The 36th Ulster Division formed out of the UVF played a major role in the Battle of the Somme. The heavy losses affected all Ulster and the event has passed into the psyche of Ulster people.
http://www.angelfire.com/folk/ulster_explained/SOMME.jpg
Men of the 36th Ulster Division go over the top at the Somme.
The Irish then fought a war of Independence and in 1920 the Government of Ireland Act recognised the existence of two peoples and nations by setting up two states on the island, although Ulster was erroneously labelled Northern Ireland. This constitutional position by and large remains today. Therefore whilst Irish nationalists talk of the 'partition of Ireland by the British', the island never was one nation to be partitioned. It was merely governed as a whole under the British crown - ironically again Irish nationalists in Ulster are trying to recreate a British state of affairs on the island. When the Irish seceded from the United Kingdom, the Ulster people went there own way through their own inalienable right to national self-determination.
''