What is Fascism?

[Broletariat]

Anytime I see someone here use the term Fascist, someone else says they are using it wrong. So what is it exactly.

[28350]

This (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Definitions_of_fascism#Marxist_definition) is pretty straight-forward and helpful.
EDIT: See specifically 13 - Marxist definitions. The extension gets ignored in the link for some reason.

Also, longer things on the subject:
http://www.marxists.org/archive/trotsky/germany/1932/321030.htm
http://www.marxists.org/archive/trotsky/works/1944/1944-fas.htm
http://www.marxists.org/archive/trotsky/germany/1934/340715.htm

Also, your question made me think of the song "What is love?"
Interesting contrast there.

[Broletariat]

This (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Definitions_of_fascism#Marxist_definition) is pretty straight-forward and helpful.
EDIT: See specifically 13 - Marxist definitions. The extension gets ignored in the link for some reason.

Also, longer things on the subject:
http://www.marxists.org/archive/trotsky/germany/1932/321030.htm
http://www.marxists.org/archive/trotsky/works/1944/1944-fas.htm
http://www.marxists.org/archive/trotsky/germany/1934/340715.htm

Also, your question made me think of the song "What is love?"
Interesting contrast there.
I think the answer would at least be the same "Hitler don't hurt me"

But yea thanks I'll check that out.

[Nolan]

An ultranationalist, extremely authoritarian form of capitalism in which capitalists are organized into a guild system (corporatism) and cooperate when needed for the national interest. Fascist ideology holds that class and hierarchy are natural and beneficial to mankind and classes should be made to collaborate. Some forms of fascism, like Hitler's national socialism, have social worldviews that focus on racial and cultural supremacy and hold that some groups (like the Jews and Gypsies) are inherently evil and must be removed from society.

I've seen it stated before that corporatism wasn't implemented in Germany, or that it wasn't the same, but I don't see how it was not. The economic policies of Nazi Germany and Fascist Italy were very similar.

It is historically extremely unstable, and relies on constant war and expansion to keep the economy afloat.

[Jimmie Higgins]

There are different definitions and that's why people argue over its use. In a nutshell I would define fascism as unique from repressive bourgeois systems because it is a system where people do not have traditional bourgeois rights and the state incorporates vigilantes into their system to enforce the will of the ruling party and ultimately the ruling class. Fascism in the US, imo, would look like: A populist or right-wing demagogue has come to power through scapegoating and saber-rattling and he has created a coalition of right-wing vigilantes (let's say organized and militant tea-party people) who campaigned for him on the ground (intimidating opponents, scaring away latinos and blacks and workers from the polls). After the election, the right-wing militias and quazi-KKK citizen councils and the minutemen are legally given carte blanch to "defend America from illegal immigrants and criminals".

In order for fascism to come about, usually the regular bourgeois attempts at controlling people (propaganda, police, courts, politicians, reforms) have failed and so the ruling class backs the fascists in a last ditch hope of terrorizing workers into submission.

Generally in the US, "Fascist" is used by most people to describe any authoritarian personality or organization. So, people call cops "fascist pigs" or call Bush a fascist or even any old bossy or bullyish person. However, as most people here probably agree, bourgise democracy can be really racist and repressive (Patriot Act, Jim-Crow, dropping A-bombs, defending corporate polluters in India) without resorting to jack-booted thugs on the street corners breaking the windows of LGBT people. Most of the time, the police fill this role nicely as it is.

For an increasing minority of conservatives and libertarians in the US, "fascism" is being used to describe any state control of anything. They are trying to use their straw-man definition of "socialism" interchangeable with their definition of fascism so that they can claim that the political divide is capitalists on the one side and socalists/fascist on the other. This is historically and factually incorrect for many reasons... but clear facts are not important to the far right.

[28350]

For an increasing minority of conservatives and libertarians in the US, "fascism" is being used to describe any state control of anything.

There should be an addition to the Wiki entry on definitions of fascism.
Glenn Beck's definition: Communism. Also see: Oligarh(y?)

[Proletarian Ultra]

Strike-breaking goons for hire, dressed up as a political party. All else is details.

[Sir Comradical]

Corporate Power + State Power = Fascism.

[Jimmie Higgins]

Corporate Power + State Power = Fascism.

But couldn't you equally say: Corporate Power + State Power = Capitalism?

[Barry Lyndon]

A very good summation of fascism, in my view:


http://richgibson.com/fascism.html:

1. Fascism is the unchecked rule of a class of the privileged, or relatively rich, in power--a full-scale assault on poor and working people. Parliamentary institutions are usually set aside, or so demeaned as to be meaningless. (The Holocaust was legal). Elites issue direct orders, frequently through a populist leader. Wages, any social safety net, working hour laws, labor laws; all come under legal (and extra-legal) attack. The stick replaces the carrot.
Even between capitalists of the same nation, struggle intensifies.

Fascism in its early stages has been popular among masses of people mystified by nationalism, racism, and sexism. These ideas are key to the construction of fascism. But, "war means work" for some, which may also explain its historical popularity.

Fascism requires and is built on the support of capitalist elites. Henry Ford, the Dulles family, the Catholic Church, and the German Krupps among many others, were early supporters of fascism in the U.S.

Fascism is an element of the modern era, which carries forward elements of feudalism. Fascism has taken the form of state capitalism in Japan, Germany, and in more sophisticated ways, the Soviet Union in the Stalin era. But fascism has also grown in less developed countries, Romania, Bulgaria, most of Eastern Europe, Cambodia, Argentina, Guatemala, Chile; and taken significantly different forms.

2. Fascism and capitalism are inseparable. There has never been a form of capital that was not built on a fascist base--from early British action against the Chartists to today's varieties of imperialism. All major capitalist nations have fascist ties.

Hence, while fascism may not be the dominant form of capitalist government, elements of fascist ideology (biological determinism, rabid nationalism, etc.) and fascist organizations (sectors of the police, KKK, skinheads, etc.) are always present. No capitalist government has ever required a revolution to institute fascism.

Fascism does emerge in capitalist crises, the moments when the struggle for production reaches a point when the workers can no longer purchase the products they produce, a crisis of over-production and declining profits and/or an intense battle for cheaper labor, raw materials, and new markets; that is, war.

However, neither war nor capitalist crisis is a pre-condition of fascism; consider Saudi Arabia or Kuwait. In addition, it is possible to live under fascism within a nation that is not itself entirely fascist, that is, to live as a jobless black youth in Sao Paulo, or Los Angeles.

3. Fascism deceptively calls for the national unity of social classes, class-collaboration, but actually promotes the division of people by race, sex, culture, nation, or religion. Fascism was, under Mussolini and, later, Hitler, conceived as the "corporate state", that is, all the resources of the society were directed toward the support of corporate profits in the name of national unity and economic development. In order to motivate warriors and bolster profits, fascism conceals the real and insoluble tensions between those who own and those who work.

4. Fascism frequently is employed as a strategic base for war. Fascist shifts in government and official ideology grow with war preparations.

5. Violence and terror, made tolerable by racism and sexism (ideas which view people as sub-human) become public policy.

6. Fascism relies on mysticism, organized irrationalism, a culture which turns to superstition, irrationality (extreme religious dogmatism, the fear of sexuality, celebrations of misogyny, death, and hopelessness--serving to explain apparent systematic despair), and retards science and social production in order to mask its own decay. Indeed, fascism is organized decay.

There is a jagged line which runs from conservative Christianity to anti-semitism to anti-communism which underpins much of fascist writing. But, there is no consistency to fascist ideology, other than to preserve capitalism. Fascism is irrationalism organized to sustain inequality and authoritarianism. Even so, the role of the ideology of irrationalism can become powerful, that is, Nazis sacrificed the productive work of many Jews in order to kill them.

7. Fascism is virulently anti-communist. Communists (and perhaps some anarchists), who have been the only consistent and effective anti-fascist fighters, are the fascist's first targets.

8. Fascism has only been defeated internally (primarily by the actions of indigenous national resistance), perhaps, twice: in Albania and, maybe, China. However, resistance movements have changed fascism and halted its birth.

9. There is evidence that combined theoretical and physical struggle causes fascism to retreat--in ideology and materially. In ideology, there is a growing body of research which indicates that vocal and written opposition to fascist ideas does cause a reevaluation and moderation of thinking in individuals. In pre-fascist Germany in the 1930's, areas which actively put people on the streets to fight the Nazis regularly caused Nazi withdrawals--and minimized fascist group membership. There is nothing inevitable about fascism. It is a political movement, reaching from production relations into the mass consciousness, and can be combatted physically and intellectually.

10. If these factors are true, then it seems effective resistance to fascism must be based on a class analysis of society, an internationalist perspective that attacks imperialist war, a multi-racial, anti-racist/sexist, organized approach (as opposed to ephemeral coalitions based on sex, race, religion), willingness to consider violence, and the grasp of the critical role of ideology in combatting fascist practice.

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[DenisDenis]

I've seen it stated before that corporatism wasn't implemented in Germany, or that it wasn't the same, but I don't see how it was not. The economic policies of Nazi Germany and Fascist Italy were very similar.


They were backed by the steel industry for obvious reasons. Hitler got huge funding, and in turn he insured massive steel consumption in the war to come.



But couldn't you equally say: Corporate Power + State Power = Capitalism?

So therefore Capitalism = Fascism :p

[scarletghoul]

Man, I read some great text on this that needs uploading..
But couldn't you equally say: Corporate Power + State Power = Capitalism?
Not really. I mean capitalist states can have a market economy with petty-bourgeoisie and so on. The defining feature of fascism is that the large industrial corporations and finance capitalists have the state to themselves. Fascism marks the triumph of monopoly capitalism.


Generally in the US, "Fascist" is used by most people to describe any authoritarian personality or organization. So, people call cops "fascist pigs" or call Bush a fascist or even any old bossy or bullyish person. However, as most people here probably agree, bourgise democracy can be really racist and repressive (Patriot Act, Jim-Crow, dropping A-bombs, defending corporate polluters in India) without resorting to jack-booted thugs on the street corners breaking the windows of LGBT people. Most of the time, the police fill this role nicely as it is.This is exactly the reason some people consider America to be a fascist state. It has all the symptoms - Racist gestapo pigs, brutal suppression of leftist movements, imperialism, extreme nationalist indoctrination, a fucking huge portion of people stuck in prison, mythology of some bullshit glorious national past, etc etc; aswell as the economic basis of fascism - a state under the secure control of monopoly capitalists. The ideological expression of this fascism is more acute with people like the Teabaggers, however they are just a part of it.

Some freedom is allowed when it is so small and useless it won't threaten the power structure. People think fascism must be constantly 'totalitarian', but that's not completely true. When the fascist forces are secure in their power they can allow some freedoms for people. For example Mussolini eventually allowed a few dissenting writers and stuff. The US is very secure so they can let people express themselves quite a bit, so this means the US can avoid that 'totalitarian' label*, however as soon as a real potentially revolutionary force takes off, you'll see full scale fascist repression. Ie, COINTELPRO, and all the other stuff they done to the Panthers, AIM, etc.

Even bourgeois democracy is vetoed when it does not suit the ruling corporatocracy. The USA could certainly be considered fascist

*this stupid word 'totalitarian' is used to link Nazi Germany to the USSR, when in fact any proper analysis shows that the USA is more like Nazi Germany.

[Sir Comradical]

But couldn't you equally say: Corporate Power + State Power = Capitalism?

Yes, definitely. The economic element of fascism is really the inevitable evolution of capitalism. As corporate power becomes more and more agglomerated and as the media becomes more and more monopolised, the conditions are created for the nastier side of fascism - the scapegoating of ethnic minorities, the glorification of the military, the leadership cult and so on. However I'd argue that the sheer dominance of corporate power over the countries it hold's captive, has in a way, meant that a leadership cult is somewhat unnecessary. The same words people used in the past to deify leaders are now being used to deify the wonders of the market.

[Boboulas]

They were backed by the steel industry for obvious reasons. Hitler got huge funding, and in turn he insured massive steel consumption in the war to come.

What point did he start reciveing funding from the steel industry if you know?





So therefore Capitalism = Fascism :p

Arent corperations facist institutions structurally? Private tyrannies is what i have heard someone use.

[The Ben G]

Basically, Nationalist Corporatism. Conservatism times two.

[Nolan]

Basically, Nationalist Corporatism. Conservatism times two.

Well yes, fascism has always included a pure, idealistic, extreme form of social conservatism but why did the Nazis find themselves opposed to the German conservatives?

[iskrabronstein]

The essential difference between bourgeois conservatism and fascist social conservatism is that fascism necessarily contains an ideology of national (or volkish) renewal. This tendency is fundamental to understanding what fascism is; fascism is not simply the application of authoritarian techniques by a bourgeois state in the service of counter-revolution - fascism is a movement that sees the existing bourgeois state as too weak to defeat the forces of revolution, and applies a policy of combined entrism and intimidation to secure control over the state.

The most standard Marxist diagnosis of fascism argues that the overall control of the movement is in the hands of the capitalists who will eventually help form the corporatist state - but this analysis is, in my opinion, too simple to provide a serious battle plan against fascism. In practice, fascist movements show a great deal of autonomy from the direct political and economic interests of the monopoly capitalists. It is certainly easy to look at the developed fascist states in Italy, Germany, etc. and argue that the monopoly capitalists who ran the state and economy were the driving force behind the counter-revolution. But this analysis focuses on the end, without taking into account the means of fascist victory.

In practice, the fascist takeover of the state is based on a policy of replacement - replacement of local government by coordinated national government, replacement or liquidation of dissenting elements within the state itself, and the replacement of class struggle with racial and national struggle. Fascism seeks to revive the ailing, corrupt bourgeois state - but in the course of that revival, it fundamentally changes the political character of the state.

Fascists are not simply conservatives with guns.

[DenisDenis]

What point did he start reciveing funding from the steel industry if you know?


I read this a couple of times actually, dont know where i got it exactly...
I think he got the funding way before the war even started, but i don't know
an exact date unfortunately.

Ofcourse many more funded hitler, even american capitalists (or any capitalist
for that matter) funded him, as they say him as fighter against communism.
Ofcourse before the war (or even while the war was going on) people didn't
really know what horrible things were going on in the extermination camps,
so there was no image-problem for the companies funding him...

[Homo Songun]

Here is the Comintern's definition:

Fascism in power is the open, terroristic dictatorship of the most reactionary, the most chauvinistic, the most imperialistic elements of finance capitalism.

For more info, read Fascism and Social Revolution, by R.P. Dutt. Buy this book if you can. Here it is online:

http://www.plp.org/display/Search?searchQuery=fascism+and+social+revolution&moduleId=5206563

[The Ben G]

Well yes, fascism has always included a pure, idealistic, extreme form of social conservatism but why did the Nazis find themselves opposed to the German conservatives?

Well, they also called themselves the 'National Socialist Party' and were anti Communist and anti Socialist, so it makes as much sense to you as it does me.

[Stephen Colbert]

Anytime I see someone here use the term Fascist, someone else says they are using it wrong. So what is it exactly.

I would say an easy definition to remember for fascism is a corporatist economic system in order to attain a strong and formidable military industrial complex and imperialist agenda, accompanied with identity politics favoring a particular group( ie Aryans) over the interest of those who are not a chosen demographic.

Trying to create a homogeneous and militant society really. Think Darwin goes war hawk