The Traitor Stalin

[JTB]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2AYCazcoHAU&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FStlrJ1acSU&feature=related

http://www.marxists.org/archive/trotsky/1936/revbet/index.htm

[Q]

The senseless and mindless trolling from the stalinoids on the boards of the past few months has found its dialectical (in b4 Rosa) response: JTB.

[Zanthorus]

To clarify from the Castro thread: I'm not a "Stalinist". But rhetoric about "liberty", "equality" etc is nonsense. These are just constructs. The goal of communism is to raise people above the alienating social constructs they create.


in b4 Rosa

:lol:

[JTB]

Zanthorus, if you don't grasp a concept as basic as equality (social and material) being the entire friggin' point of the elimination of socio-economic classes and liberty being the entire friggin' point of ending the oppression and exploitation of the proletariat by the bourgeoisie, then you just plain don't get what communism is all about. If you don't grasp that the call from the poor labourer in a sweatshop in china to throw off the chains of capitalist exploitation at the hands of American enterprise by which he has been surrendering near the entirety of the wealth he creates to a CEO in New York mirrors the calls to throw out the aristocracy and end the feudal system by which the peasant surrendered the wealth he created to hs lord

- frankly, I wonder why you're here or why you call yourself a communist, since you clearly have no idea what communism even is. If communism weren't about liberty, the charges against the capitalist would not be his enslavement of the poor through the wage-labour system that binds the proletarian to whatever master he can convince to rent him. If communism weren't about equality, its chief complaint would not be the inequality and the exploitation inherent in the capitalist system.


So I ask you: why are you here? Why do you call yourself by a term when you don't know what it means? Why do you play at being something you know nothing about?

[#FF0000]

JTB, being honest, I don't think you've read much of Marx. That's just the impression I get.

[JTB]

Communism neither began nor does it end with Marx, my friend.

Stop treating Marx like Jesus, some messiah who reveals the one and only true path to heaven. For all his denouncing of the Utopians, his fantasy is itself utopian by any fair application of the term, and refusal to treat him as any other man and examine him and his views honestly as we would any other had led to a dogmatism that allows traitors like Stalin to wave around Kapital and Manifesto like some crusader waving a bible, declaring whatever they might do to be the just commands of Marx, so long as they can twist some passage to suit their ends.


Marx was but one thinker with some good ideas and some bad ones. He is to be considered along with others in the past and also the voices of today and the merits of his system to be judged with the benefit of hindsight and the knowledge of what has occurred since his time.

[Bud Struggle]

Stalin is the best thing that ever happened to Capitalism.

[#FF0000]

Communism neither began nor does it end with Marx, my friend.

Stop treating Marx like Jesus, some messiah who reveals the one and only true path to heaven. For all his denouncing of the Utopians, his fantasy is itself utopian by any fair application of the term, and refusal to treat him as any other man and examine him and his views honestly as we would any other had led to a dogmatism that allows traitors like Stalin to wave around Kapital and Manifesto like some crusader waving a bible, declaring whatever they might do to be the just commands of Marx, so long as they can twist some passage to suit their ends.


Marx was but one thinker with some good ideas and some bad ones. He is to be considered along with others in the past and also the voices of today and the merits of his system to be judged with the benefit of hindsight and the knowledge of what has occurred since his time.

No I am just saying you literally have no idea what you're talking about is all.

I like how you try to attack my beliefs (which are unknown to you). I think that's neat and it reminds me of this cool book I read with windmills that a guy thinks are dragons and you should read that too!!!!!!!!!

[Zanthorus]

So I ask you: why are you here? Why do you call yourself by a term when you don't know what it means? Why do you play at being something you know nothing about?

I am a Humanist. I put human beings above the social constructs they create which although the result of their own free activity come to stand as alien powers to them. I support communism as the first form of society in which human activity will not stand over people as something alien but be clear to them as their own activity which they can control consciously.

All the things you mention are good enough reasons to condemn capitalism, but they all stem primarily from the product of human activity standing over it's creators as an alien power.

This is all basic Marx. But of course, you already knew that.


Stop treating Marx like Jesus, some messiah who reveals the one and only true path to heaven. For all his denouncing of the Utopians, his fantasy is itself utopian by any fair application of the term, and refusal to treat him as any other man and examine him and his views honestly as we would any other had led to a dogmatism that allows traitors like Stalin to wave around Kapital and Manifesto like some crusader waving a bible, declaring whatever they might do to be the just commands of Marx, so long as they can twist some passage to suit their ends.

Stalin's "Dialectical and Historical Materialism" was based on Lenin's article on Marxism which contained quotes gleened entirely from Engels. Most post-Marx interpretations of Marx up until about the 30's were flawed because no-one had access to Marx's early works where he clearly lays down the humanist foundation of his works which the later works build on.

As for "treating Marx like Jesus":


Let us assume for the sake of argument that recent research had disproved once and for all every one of Marx’s individual theses. Even if this were to be proved, every serious ‘orthodox’ Marxist would still be able to accept all such modern findings without reservation and hence dismiss all of Marx’s theses in toto – without having to renounce his orthodoxy for a single moment. Orthodox Marxism, therefore, does not imply the uncritical acceptance of the results of Marx’s investigations. It is not the ‘belief’ in this or that thesis, nor the exegesis of a ‘sacred’ book. On the contrary, orthodoxy refers exclusively to method.

(P.S I don't endorse anything else that Lukacs wrote. But his point here is spot on)

[Jazzratt]

No I am just saying you literally have no idea what you're talking about is all.

I like how you try to attack my beliefs (which are unknown to you). I think that's neat and it reminds me of this cool book I read with windmills that a guy thinks are dragons and you should read that too!!!!!!!!!

Giants, not dragons, but otherwise I agree.


Communism neither began nor does it end with Marx, my friend.

Stop treating Marx like Jesus, some messiah who reveals the one and only true path to heaven. For all his denouncing of the Utopians, his fantasy is itself utopian by any fair application of the term, and refusal to treat him as any other man and examine him and his views honestly as we would any other had led to a dogmatism that allows traitors like Stalin to wave around Kapital and Manifesto like some crusader waving a bible, declaring whatever they might do to be the just commands of Marx, so long as they can twist some passage to suit their ends.


Marx was but one thinker with some good ideas and some bad ones. He is to be considered along with others in the past and also the voices of today and the merits of his system to be judged with the benefit of hindsight and the knowledge of what has occurred since his time.

When someone points out that it seems you haven't read Marx is probably better if your reply to them evinces your having read some MArx rather than your ability to blast at a strawman you cobbled together from wikipedia articles.

[#FF0000]

(i didn't actually read don quixote)

[Jazzratt]

Well I suppose that's acceptable given that the theme of this thread is talking about things you haven't read.

[Conquer or Die]

Stalin is the communist movement's Cromwell. Until you understand this then you are no communist and merely on one side of the exploitation debate.

[GreenCommunism]

actually i thought that stalin was the revolution's napoleon. though he didn't give anyone as sucessor.

[RATM-Eubie]

I think Stalin was just a disaster.

[Scary Monster]

Stalin was a paranoid fuck whos victims were mostly fellow workers and revolutionaries who were friggin architects of the russian revolution- namely, trotsky.

[#FF0000]

Nice to see so many nuanced opinions.

[mykittyhasaboner]

Stalin was a paranoid fuck whos victims were mostly fellow workers and revolutionaries who were friggin architects of the russian revolution- namely, trotsky.How does someone become an architect of a revolution?

I mean, you can design a bad ass theater or piece of abstract art in the name of revolution, but I'm not sure if one can design a revolution in the same way as a building. Trotsky didn't do either, bad analogy.

Plus, the whole "Great Men" analysis wasn't working out for you anyways.


Stalin is the communist movement's Cromwell. Until you understand this then you are no communist and merely on one side of the exploitation debate.

actually i thought that stalin was the revolution's napoleon. though he didn't give anyone as sucessor. Do the comparisons really make sense? I think it's a bunch of horseshit.

[bcbm]

stalin seems like a pretty chill bro who you could have a beer and a nice fireside chat with, i dunno why all the hate.

[9]

lol

[Bud Struggle]

stalin seems like a pretty chill bro who you could have a beer and a nice fireside chat with, i dunno why all the hate.

And then you would disappear.

[bcbm]

into his arms in a big bear hug

[Glenn Beck]

http://i.imgur.com/vwC8I.jpg (http://rainbowstalin.ytmnd.com/)


[click picture to learn what Uncle Joe was really like]

[Jazzratt]

I'm going to close this thread now. I would tell you to cut the crap and get back on topic but the topic is crap so I'd be on a hiding to nothing.

[black magick hustla]

isnt stalin that small pudgy man with a funny mustache that has participated in many porn videos and has his own hot sauce brand???????? uyes i like stalin then

[Jazzratt]

Tut tut maldy, posting in closed threads is for naughty boys and girls.