'Left' hypocrisy on Israel ?

[Che a chara]

http://www.allvoices.com/contributed-news/4910083-pilar-rahola-is-a-spanish-politician-journalist-and-activist


Pilar Rahola is a Spanish politician, journalist and activist

This article was translated from Spanish into English by Mario from the web site Portal of Ideas

We want to thank him for his efforts and making this available to the English speaking audience.

Pilar Rahola web site

Pilar Rahola is a Spanish politician, journalist and activist. She is a passionate defender of the United States and Israel and an indefatigable fighter against anti-Semitism. All these despite being ideologically from the left. Her articles are published in Spain and throughout some of the most important newspapers in Latin America. She is the recipient of major awards by Jewish organizations.bs


Why don’t we see demonstrations against Islamic dictatorships in London, Paris, Barcelona? Or demonstrations against the Burmese dictatorship? Why aren’t there demonstrations against the enslavement of millions of women who live without any legal protection? Why aren’t there demonstrations against the use of children as human bombs where there is conflict with Islam? Why has there been no leadership in support of the victims of Islamic dictatorship in Sudan? Why is there never any outrage against the acts of terrorism committed against Israel? Why is there no outcry by the European left against Islamic fanaticism? Why don’t they defend Israel’s right to exist? Why confuse support of the Palestinian cause with the defense of Palestinian terrorism? An finally, the million dollar question:Why is the left in Europe and around the world obsessed with the two most solid democracies, the United States and Israel, and not with the worst dictatorships on the planet? The two most solid democracies, who have suffered the bloodiest attacks of terrorism, and the left doesn’t care.

And then, to the concept of freedom. In every pro Palestinian European forum I hear the left yelling with fervor: “We want freedom for the people!” Not true. They are never concerned with freedom for the people of Syria or Yemen or Iran or Sudan, or other such nations. And they are never preoccupied when Hammas destroys freedom for the Palestinians. They are only concerned with using the concept of Palestinian freedom as a weapon against Israeli freedom. The resulting consequence of these ideological pathologies is the manipulation of the press.

The international press does major damage when reporting on the question of the Israeli-Palestinian issue. On this topic they don’t inform, they propagandize. When reporting about Israel the majority of journalists forget the reporter code of ethics. And so, any Israeli act of self-defense becomes a massacre, and any confrontation, genocide. So many stupid things have been written about Israel, that there aren’t any accusations left to level against her. At the same time, this press never discusses Syrian and Iranian interference in propagating violence against Israel; the indoctrination of children and the corruption of the Palestinians. And when reporting about victims, every Palestinian casualty is reported as tragedy and every Israeli victim is camouflaged, hidden or reported about with disdain.

And let me add on the topic of the Spanish left. Many are the examples that illustrate the anti-Americanism and anti-Israeli sentiments that define the Spanish left. For example, one of the leftist parties in Spain has just expelled one of its members for creating a pro-Israel website. I quote from the expulsion document: “Our friends are the people of Iran, Libya and Venezuela, oppressed by imperialism, and not a Nazi state like Israel.”

In another example, the socialist mayor of Campozuelos changed Shoah Day, commemorating the victims of the Holocaust, with Palestinian Nabka Day, which mourns the establishment of the State of Israel, thus showing contempt for the six million European Jews murdered in the Holocaust. Or in my native city of Barcelona, the city council decided to commemorate the 60th anniversary of the creation of the State of Israel, by having a week of solidarity with the Palestinian people. Thus, they invited Leila Khaled, a noted terrorist from the 70’s and current leader of the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine, a terrorist organization so described by the European Union, which promotes the use of bombs against Israel. And so on and so on.

This politically correct way of thinking has even polluted the speeches of president Zapatero. His foreign policy falls within the lunatic left, and on issues of the Middle East he is unequivocally pro Arab. I can assure you that in private, Zapatero places on Israel the blame for the conflict in the Middle East, and the policies of foreign minister Moratinos reflect this. The fact that Zapatero chose to wear a kafiah in the midst of the Lebanon conflict is no coincidence; it’s a symbol.

Spain has suffered the worst terrorist attack in Europe and it is in the crosshairs of every Islamic terrorist organization. As I wrote before, they kill us will cell phones hooked to satellites connected to the Middle Ages. An yet the Spanish left is the most anti Israeli in the world.

And then it says it is anti Israeli because of solidarity. This is the madness I want to denounce in this conference.

Conclusion:

I am not Jewish. Ideologically I am left and by profession a journalist. Why am I not as anti Israeli as my colleagues? Because as a non-Jew I have the historical responsibility to fight against Jewish hatred and currently against the hatred for their historic homeland, Israel. To fight against anti-Semitism is not the duty of the Jews, it is the duty of the non-Jews.

As a journalist it is my duty to search for the truth beyond prejudice, lies and manipulations. The truth about Israel is not told. As a person from the left who loves progress, I am obligated to defend liberty, culture, civic education for children, coexistence and the laws that the Tablets of the Covenant made into universal principles. Principles that Islamic fundamentalism systematically destroys. That is to say that as a non-Jew, journalist and lefty I have a triple moral duty with Israel, because if Israel is destroyed, liberty, modernity and culture will be destroyed too.

The struggle of Israel, even if the world doesn’t want to accept it, is the struggle of the world.

[Che a chara]

Is there hypocrisy from the left when it comes to Israel and other 'dictatorships' worldwide and what we should oppose ?

The recent events certainly shook and rightfully challenged Israel's status. A lot of it may have been reactionary, and makes us overlook other abuses going on around the globe. The above article makes a couple of good points.

How should the other instances mentioned be confronted ?

[Steve_j]

Is there hypocrisy in the left, ofcourse, we are not perfect. Some sections and on some issues more than others, but that does not absolve Israel of legitimate criticism and it does not legitimize support for the Israeli state, something that this text tries to do.

Which particular parts of the article did you find made good points?

[Che a chara]

Is there hypocrisy in the left, ofcourse, we are not perfect. Some sections and on some issues more than others, but that does not absolve Israel of legitimate criticism and it does not legitimize support for the Israeli state, something that this text tries to do.

Which particular parts of the article did you find made good points?

Pilar does make some blind observations, and likely her applause (from the USA and Israel) in supporting the USA and Israel clouds her judgement somewhat.

Oppressive and anti-working class laws inhibited in Islamic states and in the name of Islam should have us worried more and compared to other demonstrations against Israel, these are non-existent, the same goes for the dictatorships in Sudan and Burma.

I don't think she supports Israel's terror and human rights abuses it has inflicted on the Palestinians, more-so just highlighting hypocrisy and selective in what the left opposes.

[Raúl Duke]

Is there hypocrisy from the left when it comes to Israel and other 'dictatorships' worldwide and what we should oppose ?

The recent events certainly shook and rightfully challenged Israel's status. A lot of it may have been reactionary, and makes us overlook other abuses going on around the globe. The above article makes a couple of good points. Usually, protests against something take place after some event. There were protests against Iran when there was rioting over the elections, for example. Now there are protests against Israel because they shot people aboard a flotilla recently. Activists tend to respond more after some major event.

To say "left hypocrisy" or whatever doesn't deny the fact that the Israeli state has killed civilians who aimed to bring supplies to a region under an economic blockage; I don't see what kind of argument Pilar is making except the fact that there are some people who say they support reactionary regimes in the name of anti-imperialism or whatever. This isn't new.

[graffic]

Its true because although it doesn't legitimise Israel recently North Korea sunk a South Korean ship in an unprovoked attack killing 40 sailors which received minor coverage in the news yet a bunch of nutcases thought they would try and take on the IDF with clubs and knives, 11 are killed and there are protests in major European cities, headlines the news for the next few days etc.

[Raúl Duke]

Its true because although it doesn't legitimise Israel recently North Korea sunk a South Korean ship in an unprovoked attack killing 40 sailors which received minor coverage in the news yet a bunch of nutcases thought they would try and take on the IDF with clubs and knives, 11 are killed and there are protests in major European cities, headlines the news for the next few days etc.

There's the issue of targets. If it was 40 civilians there would perhaps be more media attention. Right now, US/NATO soldiers could be dying today in the Middle-East but such news may be perhaps omitted or minor in these times. There's also the issue that some media sources are not sure if it was a NK submarine in the first place.

[Che a chara]

Its true because although it doesn't legitimise Israel recently North Korea sunk a South Korean ship in an unprovoked attack killing 40 sailors which received minor coverage in the news yet a bunch of nutcases thought they would try and take on the IDF with clubs and knives, 11 are killed and there are protests in major European cities, headlines the news for the next few days etc.

You seem to have deliberately misconstrued Israel's barbaric act of terror on innocent peace activists who where acting in response to an aggressive piracy act on international waters.

The IDF should have had the training and proper instructions on how to legally board a ship carrying humanitarian aid and peace activists, instead they acted inhumanely and unlawfully. No spin from you or other apologists of terrorism and criminal Zionism can change that fact. Daily we are seeing new footage and shocking evidence of Israel's latest war crime, and daily they are getting found out and wont be able to hide from the truth for long.

Israel had one intention when 'boarding' the last humanitarian ship, and that was slaughter.

As for the Korean situation, when that becomes clear and there is significant proof that the DPRK torpedoed a ROK ship without provocation then i'd expect condemnation, but western propaganda will make any evidence near void.

There is a difference in an imperialist power acting aggressively ....

[Che a chara]

Usually, protests against something take place after some event. There were protests against Iran when there was rioting over the elections, for example. Now there are protests against Israel because they shot people aboard a flotilla recently. Activists tend to respond more after some major event.

To say "left hypocrisy" or whatever doesn't deny the fact that the Israeli state has killed civilians who aimed to bring supplies to a region under an economic blockage; I don't see what kind of argument Pilar is making except the fact that there are some people who say they support reactionary regimes in the name of anti-imperialism or whatever. This isn't new.

I agree with most of what you say, but surely laws in the Middle east that prohibit women their basic rights should be protested against ?

[graffic]

You seem to have deliberately misconstrued Israel's barbaric act of terror on innocent peace activists who where acting in response to an aggressive piracy act on international waters.

Didn't matter it was international waters, it was perfectly legal. U.S.A or any European navy would have done exactly the same thing.


Israel had one intention when 'boarding' the last humanitarian ship, and that was slaughter.

That must have been why the soldiers were armed with paintball guns :rolleyes:

Five of the six ships allowed Israeli forces to board without violent resistance.

At the end of the day the Gaza situation is a humanitarian crisis and it needs to be sorted. But how does confronting and provoking the IDF in the way those Islamic martyrs did help Gazan's? It doesn't help them. And in any case, Hamas refused to take in the aid.

And by the way if I had a gun on me and people were beating and stabbing me I would shoot them. If the same thing had happened to other nations around the world they would have been happy to sink the ship. The flotilla deliberately set out to wind up the IDF and achieved nothing for Gazan's.

[Crux]

the guy who wrote the original article is an idiot. protests against islamic dictaorships? Hmmmm hmmmmmmm I seem to remember something about iran. Burma? well, mr "journalist" a few years back there was international protests to support a protest movement in burma known as the monks protests. His memeory seems extremely selective. But I guess it would have to be as he claims to "defend israel" from anti-semitism. Hypocrisy all over.

[Che a chara]

Didn't matter it was international waters, it was perfectly legal. U.S.A or any European navy would have done exactly the same thing.



That must have been why the soldiers were armed with paintball guns :rolleyes:

Five of the six ships allowed Israeli forces to board without violent resistance.

At the end of the day the Gaza situation is a humanitarian crisis and it needs to be sorted. But how does confronting and provoking the IDF in the way those Islamic martyrs did help Gazan's? It doesn't help them. And in any case, Hamas refused to take in the aid.

And by the way if I had a gun on me and people were beating and stabbing me I would shoot them. If the same thing had happened to other nations around the world they would have been happy to sink the ship. The flotilla deliberately set out to wind up the IDF and achieved nothing for Gazan's.

wow man, you are still being ignorant as fuck, and again you are still being brainwashed by the sell out media. The recent video footage and pictures released and hostage testimonies are telling a different story opposed to your and the Zionist edited and falsified videos released.

Why the need to steal footage and cut off communications on board the attacked ship ? why edit and produce fake videos ? why the constant contradictions to Israel's stories ? why certain parts of the Israeli army come out and condemned the actions by the IDF and called for an unbiased independent inquiry ? and why the need for the cover-ups and silences from the state ? does that not strike you as odd ? especially given as this is not an isolated incident. Israel has been involved in state murder and cover ups since it's formation just a short few years back.

Yes they deliberately violently attacked the last humanitarian ship. This was to send out a message. When you carry out an act of piracy and the peace activists respond to the overly aggressive nature, then human instinct is to defend and survive.

It has been confirmed that those murdered where all shot from close range (from 45cm) and shot many times in their body and head. What does that suggest to you ? to me and every other sane person on the planet, it was walk up and shoot and not try and apprehend the person.

And this paintball gun shit is just nonsense, there was probably 2 at most on board while the rest where heavily armed and firing indiscriminately. Again video footage shows the reaction of those on board, and it was in self defence from an aggressive boarding. But you are blind to this fact, i dont know why or how, but as they say the truth hurts.

Do you not watch the video footage posted on revleft ?

[Steve_j]

Hey quarter back, i kinda see what your saying, and in an ideal world yes, we would be better supporting movements within these countries (ie women in yemen struggling against their oppressors) alot better. But we are not as big and numerous as we like, we have to pick our battles so to speak and the struggle against the opression of palestinians has been a long and hard fought one that has been able to gather alot of momentum.

I think the criticisms in this paper have got it all wrong, if the left should be criticising something in regards to this matter, in my view it should be turkeys imperialist agenda, or hamas and their reactionary views, matters that have been raised on these boards and amongst the left in general. Complaining that we are not doing enough for this or that cause and then calling it hypocrisy is purely an attempt to undermine legitimate criticism of Isreal.

We as a whole are only individuals, if you wish to support women in the middle east that are struggling for equalitiy and primarily devote yourself to that that then i dont think anyone should criticise you for that, so why should it deserve such criticism when in reverse (ie the current situation where so many throw themselves primarily behind the liberation of palestinians)

This same sort of argument could be used against the anti aparthied movement, do they deserve criticism because they were not paying much attention to Pinochet and his dictatorship?

Hope that makes sense

[Crux]

Didn't matter it was international waters, it was perfectly legal. U.S.A or any European navy would have done exactly the same thing.



That must have been why the soldiers were armed with paintball guns :rolleyes:

Five of the six ships allowed Israeli forces to board without violent resistance.

At the end of the day the Gaza situation is a humanitarian crisis and it needs to be sorted. But how does confronting and provoking the IDF in the way those Islamic martyrs did help Gazan's? It doesn't help them. And in any case, Hamas refused to take in the aid.

And by the way if I had a gun on me and people were beating and stabbing me I would shoot them. If the same thing had happened to other nations around the world they would have been happy to sink the ship. The flotilla deliberately set out to wind up the IDF and achieved nothing for Gazan's.
That must have been why most of the dead were shot in the back of the head at close range, and why one was killed by fire from the helicopter, live fire, before any soldiers boarded. So if someone was shooting at you would you defend yourself with sticks? Well, I guess you wouldn't, because you'd be the guy holding the gun. And the blockade is illegal, ergo israel has no right to excercize control over any waters beyond israel. Further more the law is pretty clear on who has legal authority on international waters. The captain of the ship. But I am sorry ignorants like you is sadly 20 a dossen.

[eyedrop]

Besides, western activists should focus on western, and western backed, tragedies, while middle-eastern activists should focus on middle eastern tragedies.

[Raúl Duke]

I agree with most of what you say, but surely laws in the Middle east that prohibit women their basic rights should be protested against ?

Most Leftists are against these laws, and I am too, but I'm just pointing out that people don't protest these things everyday. Just like people don't protest against Iran or Saudi Arabia everyday, most protests take place over some big issue or some recent (or current, like a g8 or a DNC/RNC meeting) big event. Pilar should note this too, after all a few days before the flotilla attack I doubt there was much big anti-israeli protest going on. Now, in the aftermath of such an attack, there are protests and I see nothing wrong with these condemations and protests.

The call of Israel's supporters of "what about those other people"...well, what about them? I personally am against them (Iran, Saudi Arabia, Burma, etc), but the past actions of those other country's do not absolves the IDF's recent attack on civilians as people like Pilar seem to implicitly pretend it does. There were protests (among some segments of the left) over Iran's treatments of civilians during the post-election riots anyway, so I don't see any 'left hypocrisy' in that case.


Besides, western activists should focus on western, and western backed, tragedies, while middle-eastern activists should focus on middle eastern tragedies. Sometimes I wonder if this would be a better course of action, although it goes against the principle of solidarity.
Personally, I tend to be ambivalent about Israel and Palestine (although I'm aware of the injustices and atrocities that Israel has committed against Palestinian civilians, yet I do note that there has also been Israeli civilian casualties) issue but I feel that it's fine for people to feel solidarity with the Gazan people and/or the victims of the flotilla attack.


Complaining that we are not doing enough for this or that cause and then calling it hypocrisy is purely an attempt to undermine legitimate criticism of Isreal.

I agree with this

[The Red Next Door]

This guy sound like a liberal who like to kiss reactionary ass.

[Barry Lyndon]

Apparently, it is inconceivable to this idiot that you can both be opposed to US imperialism and Israel and also to Islamic fundamentalism. In fact, its perfectly consistent, given that Washington backed Islamic fundamentalists in the first place to undermine communists and secular Arab nationalists in the Middle East, while Israel gave money to Hamas to undermine the secular PLO.

Sure some leftists take stupid positions, but every movement has its idiots.

It's pretty rich that she accuses others as being selective, given the fact that she is suddenly so concerned about the plight of Muslim women only when Israel is caught red-handed doing something horrible. Israel's supporters recently have been screaming about their solidarity with the Armenians, which for years they couldn't give two shits about when Turkey was having a cozy relationship with Israel b4 this crises.

[Dean]

At the end of the day the Gaza situation is a humanitarian crisis and it needs to be sorted. But how does confronting and provoking the IDF in the way those Islamic martyrs did help Gazan's? It doesn't help them. And in any case, Hamas refused to take in the aid.

And by the way if I had a gun on me and people were beating and stabbing me I would shoot them. If the same thing had happened to other nations around the world they would have been happy to sink the ship. The flotilla deliberately set out to wind up the IDF and achieved nothing for Gazan's.

So, lets get this straight:

-An attempt at resolving a humanitarian crisis is launched via international waters
-The Israeli military, which is imposing the blockade, fires on activists (one 30 times!) before illegally boarding each ship.
-You decry the activists as "provoking" the IDF (I guess Salmon Rushdie is to blame for the fatwa on his head, too, from this logic!)


Your notion that other nations should/would "sink the ship" is akin to justifying a hypothetical US sinking of an aid vessel en route to Cuba.

The fact is that its bullshit, and you know it.

[Barry Lyndon]

The Ku Klux Klan and Southern sheriffs also claimed to be 'provoked' by the civil rights workers in the early 1960's. It gave them 'no choice' but to violently attack them, beat them and sometimes even kill them.

Really, Israel is in the exact same moral position.

[Conquer or Die]

Alan Dershowitz claimed in a "debate" with Dennis Prager that he "must remain on the left to convince others of the state of Israel's rights as a homeland for the Jews." I see this above post by a Spanish progressive as a similar attempt to try a cost benefit analysis of sum total progressiveness versus backwardness in the region while maintaining notions of "greater" progressivism.

[Wanted Man]

Pilar Rahola is a Spanish politician, journalist and activist. She is a passionate defender of the United States and Israel and an indefatigable fighter against anti-Semitism. All these despite being ideologically from the left. Her articles are published in Spain and throughout some of the most important newspapers in Latin America. She is the recipient of major awards by Jewish organizations.bs

Wow, sounds like a great person!

Seriously though, who the fuck are these people? It seems that every European country has a small amount of self-publicists who have styled themselves "left intellectuals" or some such, but what do they actually do? Give speeches at neocon events to give them the appearance of "broad" support? This Rahola person can get fucked.

It's a dumb argument, anyway. If anyone feels that way, what are they doing? Why are they writing articles or posting on Revleft instead of protesting the dictatorship in Chad, the scumbags in charge of Turkmenistan and Uzbekistan, the Myanmar junta, Japanese whaling, acid rain, ozone depletion, anti-communist legislation in Poland, etc.?

Simple, because there's so much injustice in the world that it's impossible to devote equal attention to all of it. People prioritise. If a problem is broadly-carried, solvable, current and heartfelt, it will draw more attention, and Israel is definitely such a problem. Of course, people like Rahola are aware of this (as a journalist, she has to be selective as well), and shit articles like this only serve to de-legitimise the Palestinian movement itself, to persuade people who are starting to doubt Israel, and to tell them, "There is nothing going on, we intellectuals have the matter under control, we will debate it endlessly and you can go to sleep."

[Bud Struggle]

As to the question at hand not the ad hominums---:rolleyes:

It's a mixed bag--radicals supporting Palestine and fighting Israel. Leftists in general have no problem, they aren't looking for world revolution, they just want a change from the existing world order to that in which those people with disadvantages have a greater share in the proceedings--nothing wrong with that. So getting one rather nasty religious/ethnic group of people out of a country and getting another more "friendly" religious/ethnic group of people in there doesn't seem like a bad idea. Greater, longer ties to the land, etc. But all in the end very Bourgeoisie.

To be in the radical left one has to suppose that NO ONE has any ties to land--it belongs to everyone. No ethnic or religious group has any more rights than any other one--in fact only individuals have rights. Groups like Palestinians, Born Again Christians, Blacks, White Europeans, etc. do not.


Further is there any difference between Palestine being a "homeland" to Palestinians than Denmark being a "homeland" to Danes? Are those the ethos of a Communist culture? In the end, ethically it's a mixed bag for the radical left. The question is--does this fight further the ends of Revolution?

It is sexy, though. And easy. You don't have to explain you postiton to your friends on the less demanding Left. You can all protest together. It's better than fighting for the plight of Albinos in Tanzania who get their body parts stolen (while alive) because witch doctors believe they have magical properties, or the plight of Zimbabweans who are begin starved to death by a tyrannical mad man. Or thousands of other equally valid world struggles. .

Is it anti-Semitism to fight Israel? I don't think so, but it isn't world Revolution either.

[Die Rote Fahne]

These Islamic dictatorships are oppressing there own people. It is up to those people to decide their fate. They can revolt.

The Israelis are not oppressing their own people, but another nation. Ergo not allowing Palestinians to decide their future.

[#FF0000]

Didn't matter it was international waters, it was perfectly legal. U.S.A or any European navy would have done exactly the same thing.

The blockade itself is of questionable legality and legality isn't always the best thing to go by. Slavery was once legal, after all.


That must have been why the soldiers were armed with paintball guns :rolleyes:

Guess that explains why people are dead of gunshot wounds.


Five of the six ships allowed Israeli forces to board without violent resistance.

Neat-o.


And by the way if I had a gun on me and people were beating and stabbing me I would shoot them.

And depending on the context you may or may not be in the wrong!

At this point I think you have to be really, really willfully ignorant to support Israel. If you aren't then you have to admit that displacing entire populations is something that a government is allowed to do.

[NGNM85]

Pilar Rahola is a Spanish politician, journalist and activist
“Why don’t we see demonstrations against Islamic dictatorships in London, Paris, Barcelona? Or demonstrations against the Burmese dictatorship? Why aren’t there demonstrations against the enslavement of millions of women who live without any legal protection? Why aren’t there demonstrations against the use of children as human bombs where there is conflict with Islam? Why has there been no leadership in support of the victims of Islamic dictatorship in Sudan? Why is there never any outrage against the acts of terrorism committed against Israel? Why is there no outcry by the European left against Islamic fanaticism? Why don’t they defend Israel’s right to exist? Why confuse support of the Palestinian cause with the defense of Palestinian terrorism? An finally, the million dollar question:Why is the left in Europe and around the world obsessed with the two most solid democracies, the United States and Israel, and not with the worst dictatorships on the planet? The two most solid democracies, who have suffered the bloodiest attacks of terrorism, and the left doesn’t care.”

This is really unfair. Of course, I can’t speak for Spaniards, Parisians, or Londoners, so I can only answer as an American.
First, I don’t think there is anybody on the left who isn’t upset by genocide in Sudan, honor killings, etc. However, it’s incredibly easy to criticize others, especially those who commit such atrocities. It doesn’t take a lot of strength of character to denounce such figures. The real test is if one is able to apply those standarsds to themselves, to their own country. The violence being perpetrated by Israel against the Palestinians is of primary importance because my government is participating in it. Were it not for the protection of the US Israel would not be able to commit atrocities like the recent Gaza massacre, and stand defiantly against the global consensus. That’s to say nothing of the substantial financial, and material support the United States provides. That’s why there is a greater focus on Israel, because we are complicit in what’s going on there, and also because, for that very reason, we’re in a position to actually do something about it.

As for Israel’s ‘right to exist’ that applies to all peoples, (Including the Palestinians.) that’s a given. Even Hamas and Hezbollah both have recognized the existence of Israel, and have publicly stated their acceptance of a mutual peace based roughly on the 1967 borders. As does the Arab league, including Iran, etc. Virtually the whole world is agreed on this. However, with US backing Israel continues to act in violation of international law.

Nobody on the left is supporting terrorist attacks against Israeli civilians. However, if you condemn terrorism committed against the US and Israel, you must also condemn the (much greater) terrorism committed by the US and Israel. Otherwise, you’re a hypocrite. Again, the real test is applying those standards inward, not just pointing fingers.


“And then, to the concept of freedom. In every pro Palestinian European forum I hear the left yelling with fervor: “We want freedom for the people!” Not true. They are never concerned with freedom for the people of Syria or Yemen or Iran or Sudan, or other such nations. And they are never preoccupied when Hammas destroys freedom for the Palestinians. They are only concerned with using the concept of Palestinian freedom as a weapon against Israeli freedom. The resulting consequence of these ideological pathologies is the manipulation of the press.”

Neither, the US or Israel cares about freedom for the Palestinians in the slightest. After Hamas was elected (In a free and fair election.) Israel arrested most of the elected government, and the US tried to ferment a military coup. (State terrorism.) Displaying their absolute contempt for democracy. As for why Hamas got elected, the record of independent groups like Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch should make that plain.


“The international press does major damage when reporting on the question of the Israeli-Palestinian issue. On this topic they don’t inform, they propagandize. When reporting about Israel the majority of journalists forget the reporter code of ethics. And so, any Israeli act of self-defense becomes a massacre, and any confrontation, genocide. So many stupid things have been written about Israel, that there aren’t any accusations left to level against her. At the same time, this press never discusses Syrian and Iranian interference in propagating violence against Israel; the indoctrination of children and the corruption of the Palestinians. And when reporting about victims, every Palestinian casualty is reported as tragedy and every Israeli victim is camouflaged, hidden or reported about with disdain.”

This is a lot of hyperbole and nonsense. All you have to do is look at the facts. The protestations of victimhood from the Sparta-like Israeli regional military superpower just become less credible with each passing day. The paranoia is bordering on pathology. The greatest threat to Israel is itself. As more settlements are built, more Palestinians killed and maimed, peace becomes less possible. This could virtually end overnight, again, the world is united on this. It’s like Northern Ireland, the British government just rebuffed them for years, once they actually sat down at the table, things progressed very quickly. We all know what needs to be done.

I won’t comment on the Spanish left because I’m not fit to judge.


“As a journalist it is my duty to search for the truth beyond prejudice, lies and manipulations. The truth about Israel is not told. As a person from the left who loves progress, I am obligated to defend liberty, culture, civic education for children, coexistence and the laws that the Tablets of the Covenant made into universal principles. Principles that Islamic fundamentalism systematically destroys. That is to say that as a non-Jew, journalist and lefty I have a triple moral duty with Israel, because if Israel is destroyed, liberty, modernity and culture will be destroyed too.


The struggle of Israel, even if the world doesn’t want to accept it, is the struggle of the world.”

The truth about Israel is well known, and meticulously documented by Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch, and scholars like Norman Finkelstein and Noam Chomsky. Ms. Rahola commits the same sin she decries, while I can’t speak for those she accuses, her own biases are clearly evidenced.

[Dean]

These Islamic dictatorships are oppressing there own people. It is up to those people to decide their fate. They can revolt.

The Israelis are not oppressing their own people, but another nation. Ergo not allowing Palestinians to decide their future.

I'm shocked that you use Chomsky as your avatar, and call yourself a luxemburgist. Both of these people have/had more rational notions about the conflict, which involved (shocking, I know!) real critical analysis of the states that define the conflict.

Israel is also attacking its Arab minorities via various sanctions; there are even laws being discussed as we speak to limit Arab's rights more, and expulsion of the Arab population is becoming more popular in Israel all of the time.

Please, actually read up on the issues before you start defending white nationalist regimes. It's really unbecoming of a leftist.

[RGacky3]

Further is there any difference between Palestine being a "homeland" to Palestinians than Denmark being a "homeland" to Danes? Are those the ethos of a Communist culture? In the end, ethically it's a mixed bag for the radical left. The question is--does this fight further the ends of Revolution?

It is sexy, though. And easy. You don't have to explain you postiton to your friends on the less demanding Left. You can all protest together. It's better than fighting for the plight of Albinos in Tanzania who get their body parts stolen (while alive) because witch doctors believe they have magical properties, or the plight of Zimbabweans who are begin starved to death by a tyrannical mad man. Or thousands of other equally valid world struggles. .

Its not that black and white.

Ultimately its what is best for the people in that area, what is the most democratic, do I believe in principle in land ownership? No I don't, however we fight for liberation and a homeland for palestinians because its better for them and ultiamtely for everyone, I can worry about getting more and more into anarchism later.

The principle of leftism is ultimately what can we do to increase the well being and self-determination of everyone, in whatever way, be it a minority in a country, or an oppressed majority, or whatever. Its not dogmatism.


Is it anti-Semitism to fight Israel? I don't think so, but it isn't world Revolution either.

No, but it is the right thing, I'm not one of those that thinks we should'nt support things that help peoples lives and move democracy forward just because it does'nt follow anarchism or communism directly, the point of anarchsim and communism is more freedom and equality and democracy, THATS what we are fighting for. Thats why I can (as an anarchist) support single payer healthcare, and a palestinian homeland.

[Bud Struggle]

The principle of leftism is ultimately what can we do to increase the well being and self-determination of everyone, in whatever way, be it a minority in a country, or an oppressed majority, or whatever. Its not dogmatism. As I said--it's a "Leftist" fight, NOT a "Radical Leftist" fight.




No, but it is the right thing, I'm not one of those that thinks we should'nt support things that help peoples lives and move democracy forward just because it does'nt follow anarchism or communism directly, the point of anarchsim and communism is more freedom and equality and democracy, THATS what we are fighting for. Thats why I can (as an anarchist) support single payer healthcare, and a palestinian homeland.

And I as a Christian Socialist support them, too! Brother Gacky, in his we march arm in arm in solidarity. :)

[Jimmie Higgins]

The hypocrisy of this thread is that Israel unlike North Korea or many other repressive regimes (that I would love to see rotting in the dustbin of history) is the number one recipient of US military power and aid. The US movement for Palestine is based around a concrete goal of divestment and hopefully and end of US bankrolling for Israel's ethnic cleansing in the occupied territories.

Since Israel is a US henchman in the middle east, protesting in the US for divestment can actually make an impact.

What would be the concrete goals of protesting North Korea in the US? The only way that would be effective in making an impact in North Korea would be if we convinced the US to invade them and carry out a regime change. As much as I would love to see North Korea toppled, I do not want to see the US and some US-installed Korean Karzi or Korean Shah become the new oppressor of people there.

With Iran, again there was something concrete to rally behind - a popular revolt by people in the country. Although there were not too many concrete ways to help the movement against the regime there, it was more of a solidarity action. It also helps show that US sanctions are in no way the real road to seeing more freedom and democracy in Iran because you are hurting the population - the people who would want to see increased rights.

Also, It's a straw-man to argue that if radicals are not actively protesting repression somewhere, then they support it. We have a big fight and there is no state on earth that the entire left supports uncritically or that we wouldn't want to see replaced with working class rule. But when you are in such a big fight you have to think and act strategically: If youR enemy is occupying a group of private houses and a museum but also controls the bridge and railway, what do you want to strike and reoccupy? The houses? No, the bridge and the railway are what are keeping the enemy supplied and able to occupy the other buildings. That's what some countries are like now: Israel like the Shah's Iran before are important building blocks in the structure of imperialism for the US. If we can force the US to stop backing countries like Egypt, Israel, or Colombia then liberation movements in Latin America, Egypt and Palestine all have a better chance of gaining ground without the full weight of a US-backed repressive regime coming down on them. Conversely for us, if US imperialism looses allies and the ability to run the world, then we have a better chance of wining liberation here.

[Die Rote Fahne]

I'm sorry, but why do Jews need a homeland? Why does Israel need to be a "Jewish state". Instead of just a state with a majority Jewish population? Why could the Jews not live in peace in a state called Palestine?

No race or ethnicity needs a "homeland". The very idea is fucking retarded. It's retarded to have an Islamic homeland, a Christian homeland, a white homeland, a black homeland, etc etc etc etc.

The earth is everyone's homeland. Where you are born is your homeland.

Fuck nationalism, fuck the idea that we still need to recognize race and ethnicity, fuck it all. We're all humans on one tiny spec of the universe.

This is what the Zionists need to realize. This is what the White Nationalists need to realize.

ps: Christians want Jews in Israel so the rapture can come. This involves all Jews being killed.

K, thx.

[Dr Mindbender]

There's the issue of targets. If it was 40 civilians there would perhaps be more media attention. Right now, US/NATO soldiers could be dying today in the Middle-East but such news may be perhaps omitted or minor in these times. There's also the issue that some media sources are not sure if it was a NK submarine in the first place.

not only that, theres the issue of threat. A cargo boat full of medicine, clothes, food and childrens toys operated by civillians does not threaten Israel. A heavilly armed South Korean naval vessel operated by servicepeople might threaten North Korea.



ps: Christians want Jews in Israel so the rapture can come. This involves all Jews being killed.
yes, and all anti-semites want the Jews in one place so an atomic bomb can be dropped on them. If Hitler was alive he wouldve been a big Israel fan.

[Hiero]

These sort of articles only aim to distract from the situation in Palestinian territories and Israel. Not once does the author even mentioned about these problematic situations. It seeks to make it normal to ignore suffering an oppression based on some abritary scale.

If we follow this logic, then why worry about anything? For everything we focus on we can always find something worse. USA has no no unverivsal health care system, but why fix it if Sudan lacks in hospitals? Is that even an argeument we can consider?

The reason for the focus I think is because the Israel and Palestinian conflict has an end and solution. This can also set a precedent for future conflicts. Also it is highly visible and part of a contigent Western history of ethnic/national/race relations.

[Bud Struggle]

I'm sorry, but why do Jews need a homeland? Why does Israel need to be a "Jewish state". Instead of just a state with a majority Jewish population? Why could the Jews not live in peace in a state called Palestine?

No race or ethnicity needs a "homeland". The very idea is fucking retarded. It's retarded to have an Islamic homeland, a Christian homeland, a white homeland, a black homeland, etc etc etc etc.

The earth is everyone's homeland. Where you are born is your homeland.

Fuck nationalism, fuck the idea that we still need to recognize race and ethnicity, fuck it all. We're all humans on one tiny spec of the universe.

This is what the Zionists need to realize. This is what the White Nationalists need to realize.

ps: Christians want Jews in Israel so the rapture can come. This involves all Jews being killed.

K, thx.

But you see this also applies to the Palestinians. The Palestinians need a homeland as much as the Jews.

There really should be one state in which all the people living in that area participate in.

[Jimmie Higgins]

There really should be one state in which all the people living in that area participate in.Yup, that's why many on the left support one secular state in Palestine as the best short-term option to ease inequality and oppression.

They way I see it, the Israelis don't even have to pay all that much in repartations to the Palestinians - just guarantee equal rights and right of return and then use the equivalent to the hundreds of millions of dollars that the US gives in aid and weaponry to rebuild the economy and infrastructure in the occupied territories and create new integrated housing throughout Palestine and Israel.

[Glenn Beck]

It's about politics, there isn't any such thing as a purely 'moral' and objective stance. The definition of atrocities is and was a political process, and the degree to which there is agreement that particular actions, which are always disputed, are atrocities is also political.

It's a matter of what protest actually means in a given context. Protesting Burma, Chad, Iran, Sudan, North Korea etc. is politically aligned with predatory foreign interests and serves to legitimize imperialist interventions in those countries. Protesting Israel, Egypt, Colombia, etc. can instead be against the dominant imperialist interests, the goal is not to push governments to interfere in those countries but rather to compel governments to cease support . Unlike "humanitarian intervention", this does not violate the principle of self-determination: what to do about their governments now that they aren't being propped up by foreign aid is up to the people of those countries.

Where you place your attention is a matter of political allegiance. I may not support Bashir or Kim or whoever but that doesn't oblige me to root for the people who want to take them down; USA, France, China, etc. are not fucking charities, they aren't going to try to knock over a government unless they think they stand to gain from it.

Really the hypocrisy from supporters of NATO countries in condemning anti-imperialists and leftists for being selective in their outrage is hilarious. If you're all so goddamn impartial, then where was the outrage over South Korea's actions in these?:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Battle_of_Yeonpyeong
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Battle_of_Yeonpyeong
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Daecheong

Imperialist apologists don't have an ounce of credibility to whine about this, you're the types to say "He's a bastard, but he's our bastard", whether it's Mubarak, Hussein, Pahlavi, Suharto, Marcos, Pinochet, Batista, or whatever the hell the flavor of the month is. Just because you throw him under the bus after he's used up doesn't absolve you, nor does the fact that it happened a "long, long time ago" in a "third world country far, far away". If that were an excuse then why are you blubbering to us over Mao, Stalin, Pot, et. al.? Like I said: zero credibility to even begin to talk about hypocrisy.

[Die Rote Fahne]

But you see this also applies to the Palestinians. The Palestinians need a homeland as much as the Jews.

There really should be one state in which all the people living in that area participate in.

I agree that one state would be ideal. But it won't happen.

[Jimmie Higgins]

I agree that one state would be ideal. But it won't happen.I'm not trying to argue against this point, but what do you see, then as a shorter-term alternative - you know short of revolution and regional solidarity and the end of imperialism, of course:lol:.

Would it be pressure to force an end to US support which then might force the Israeli government to negotiate on a more even basis with Palestinian representatives? International pressure and monitoring to ensure equal rights?