Mumbai Slums Steamrolled Over

[Ocean Seal]

So I was watching BBC today only to catch a glimpse of what the Indian government is doing. Since Mumbai is growing in wealth and thus property value is going up the government has gotten a little greedy and is now steamrolling over the slums in an attempt to raise property value. Considering that they didn't even give the people a warning I see this as a grave violation of humans rights. Many people have lost everything and the government isn't offering to improve their lives just move them off their land. So, thoughts? Anything that should be done?

[pranabjyoti]

Nothing unusual about India. It's a very common practice in the WORLD'S BIGGEST DEMOCRACY.

[Saorsa]

I look forward to the day when any steam rollers that try to go into Indian slums will be met by red flags and Naxalite bullets.

[pranabjyoti]

I look forward to the day when any steam rollers that try to go into Indian slums will be met by red flags and Naxalite bullets.
That day isn't far away. But the limiting factor is the availability of bullets and guns.

[leftace53]

Slums must be so inconvenient on the rich, a real eye sore. :rolleyes:

[Robocommie]

It really amazes me that people can be this fucking callous to other human beings, especially to people who have so very little.

[Blackscare]

That day isn't far away. But the limiting factor is the availability of bullets and guns.

The Naxalite Movement is actually quite well funded, from what I have read.

[Sir Comradical]

Slums must be so inconvenient on the rich, a real eye sore. :rolleyes:

I've heard upper-middle class people from Bombay say that. I'm not kidding, it goes something like "unfortunately people from other countries get the wrong impression about India because of these embarrassing slums, the government should act...etc". In all honesty, if they demolish all the slums, the city will come to a standstill since Dharavi itself is a massive economy where a lot of the city's waste gets recycled.

I visited a slum in Bombay this year.

http://img816.imageshack.us/img816/8800/191slumsequence3medium.jpg

Waterfront real-estate in Bombay.

[leftace53]

I've heard upper-middle class people from Bombay say that. I'm not kidding, it goes something like "unfortunately people from other countries get the wrong impression about India because of these embarrassing slums, the government should act...etc".

I'm willing to bet money that my grand father says things like this. From what I have heard through my parents, the picture you posted isn't even the worst of it (probably not even the worst of it in Mumbai).

[thomasludd]

Slums must be so inconvenient on the rich, a real eye sore. :rolleyes:

it's a sentiment of most middle-class people here, as well as working-class people who happen to get lucky getting properties due to inheritance. Change the "rich" word to "people working their asses off"..

[Sir Comradical]

I'm willing to bet money that my grand father says things like this. From what I have heard through my parents, the picture you posted isn't even the worst of it (probably not even the worst of it in Mumbai).

This picture I took was in Mankhurd. It's close to Vashi bridge on Salsette Island. I didn't get time to go to Dharavi. Did you know that at one point, the elites of Bombay petitioned the government to ban slum dwellers from voting?

http://www.indiatogether.org/2007/jan/psa-cantvote.htm

[leftace53]

Did you know that at one point, the elites of Bombay petitioned the government to ban slum dwellers from voting?

http://www.indiatogether.org/2007/jan/psa-cantvote.htm

Thats beyond ridiculous, but I have heard of the immense disdain of slums within well off Indians. India has an huge divide of rich and poor, which I'm sure contributes to this.

[Sir Comradical]

Thats beyond ridiculous, but I have heard of the immense disdain of slums within well off Indians. India has an huge divide of rich and poor, which I'm sure contributes to this.

There's also a feeling amongst the elites that it's THEY who are sustaining the slum dwellers through their taxes!

[Saorsa]

It won't be long before the majority of humans on this planet live in slums like the one you took a picture of... it makes you want to cry. It's completely unnecessary!


The Naxalite Movement is actually quite well funded, from what I have read.

That's right, they're all millionaires. Or so I've heard.

[pranabjyoti]

Thats beyond ridiculous, but I have heard of the immense disdain of slums within well off Indians. India has an huge divide of rich and poor, which I'm sure contributes to this.
It's actually a depiction of deep rooted feudal mentality among Indian elite. What is unimaginable in capitalist west is very normal in feudal India. Can you ever imagine that a father/mother kill their offspring for marrying against their will? Not very unusual in India.
Still there are people who "claimed" that India is a fully capitalist country BECAUSE IT CAN SEND A PROBE IN MOON.

[chegitz guevara]

Because it's the relations of production, not the relations in your head, that matter. In India, the market dominates all.

[Barry Lyndon]

Over the last 60+ years, India has developed a ruthless capitalist class that exploits and oppresses the lower class Indians almost, if not as brutally as the British ever did. India is a lot like China was under the Kuomintang- a hideous combination of the most backward feudalism and the most super-exploitative capitalism. A high-school friend of mine went on a study abroad trip to India, and she was appalled by the level of suffering she saw there-she saw a lower-caste beggar literally eating crumbs off the floor of a train car that were soaked with urine. Unfortunately this is not some aberration in a country in which 400 million don't have clean water, over 300 million are illiterate, where just this past year 7.7 million children under the age of five have died from hunger and preventable disease.

I don't believe in God, but if there is a just God, the Maoists will be victorious one day and they can put these monsters who make one-fifth of humanity live like this up against the fucking wall.

[Sir Comradical]

Over the last 60+ years, India has developed a ruthless capitalist class that exploits and oppresses the lower class Indians almost, if not as brutally as the British ever did. India is a lot like China was under the Kuomintang- a hideous combination of the most backward feudalism and the most super-exploitative capitalism. A high-school friend of mine went on a study abroad trip to India, and she was appalled by the level of suffering she saw there-she saw a lower-caste beggar literally eating crumbs off the floor of a train car that were soaked with urine. Unfortunately this is not some aberration in a country in which 400 million don't have clean water, over 300 million are illiterate, where just this past year 7.7 million children under the age of five have died from hunger and preventable disease.

Good analysis in bold, that's absolutely correct.

In Delhi, they've been trying to push as many beggars out of the city for the Commonwealth games. However that failed, so they decided to round them up and throw them in jail instead.

Read this, it will make your blood boil:


The public, too, should be educated about the "evils of almsgiving, which... promotes parasites [referring to the beggars] in the society and demotivates them from doing hard work" according to the report, which was written by academics at Delhi University for the city's department for social welfare.


Begging is already illegal in Delhi. Anyone caught begging can be arrested and taken before the beggars' court before being incarcerated in one of 12 beggars' homes, which are more like jails than homeless hostels.


Almost all the beggars interviewed were illiterate and without skills. Most had come to Delhi from other regions of India - especially the impoverished states of Bihar and Uttar Pradesh - and had turned to begging because they could not find work.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1555519/Delhi-to-jail-beggars-for-2010-Games.html


I don't believe in God, but if there is a just God, the Maoists will be victorious one day and they can put these monsters who make one-fifth of humanity live like this up against the fucking wall.

Absolutely.

[t.shonku]

Originally Posted by Barry Lyndon http://www.revleft.com/vb/../revleft/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.revleft.com/vb/../showthread.php?p=1772275#post1772275)
I don't believe in God, but if there is a just God, the Maoists will be victorious one day and they can put these monsters who make one-fifth of humanity live like this up against the fucking wall.
I don’t know anything about God.But one thing that I can tell you is that God men in India aka holly men are always on the side of the capitalists and these holy men are always anti-communist.For ex-Baba Ramdev a famous holly man of India is an anti-Maoist individual,in many instances I have heard him say in TV anti-Maoist talks the guys even goes further and tells his disciples to oppose Maoists.The governmentt is even thinking of using religious organizations in India like Ramkrishna Mission and Bharat Sevashram to brainwash the tribals in India and separate them from the Maoists thus destroying the Maoist movement.Anyways my personal point of view regarding religion is that it is a tool used by the ruling class to oppress the poor working class.BESIDES HINDUISM THE DOMINENT RELIGION OF INDIA IS AN ABSOLUTE FUEDAL RELIGION,IT ENCOURAGES RACISM AND CASTE SYSTEM.
If we really want to worship someone we should worship Chairman Mao,Comrade Lenin,Comrade Stalin and great god of communism Karl Marx.Because these are the only men who have shown us the truth and have freed our mind.EVERYTHING MARX HAS WRITTEN IN HIS BOOKS ARE THE ONLY TRUTH AND EVERYTHING ELSE IS A LIE.

[t.shonku]

I've heard upper-middle class people from Bombay say that. I'm not kidding, it goes something like "unfortunately people from other countries get the wrong impression about India because of these embarrassing slums, the government should act...etc".

There's also a feeling amongst the elites that it's THEY who are sustaining the slum dwellers through their taxes!
Upper- Middle class of India is are hypocrites,liers,parasitic tapeworms and offcourse highly dishonest( did you guys knew that these people make a living by taking bribes which includes officers in govt offices,employees in court,professors and teachers in govt colleges and govt schools,judges and the list goes on)
The only parasites I know of are the upper middle class in India they are alive bcoz of working class.Without the peasants in rural area they will starve to death and without the poor working class their lives will cripple,they make their living by sucking poor peoples blood. basically
Let me give you all a description about the lives of this parasites,these parasites are born in private corporate hospitals(these peoples avoid govt hospitals bcoz the govt hospitals have been turned filthy deliberately by govt bcoz poor peoples go there),as these parasites grow they are sent to study in private school (these parasites will never go to a govt school bcoz govt has deliberately turned them into sub-standard schools bcoz poor people go there),after these parasites finish school they go to private engineering colleges,private B schools,or private medical colleges (in India to become a engineer or a doctor you don’t need brain all you need is money,INDIA HAS MORE PRIVATE ENGINEERING COLLEGES THAN THE NUMBER OF MC-DONNALDS IN USA),after this parasites graduate from college they go to USA to settle down.I remember at one instance the PM of India Manmohan Singh speaking to CNN sayed that “almost all Indian families have their relatives staying in USA” that filthy PM forgot the working class while saying such things……………………Oh yeah forgot to tell you guys something else and that is his parasites are Bollywood movie addict,they watch this fancy fairy tale movies,cricket and their women enjoy getting into extra maritial affair with other richer men.Hahahahahaha.

[t.shonku]

The only way this country can be made right is by establishing a strict communist code.This country needs a armed Maoist revolution and an end to democracy,bcoz democracy is that what is shielding the capitalists,this country needs a leader like Stalin and Chairman Mao,this country needs a secret police force like NKVD which will hunt down enemys of revolutions.Executions must be held in stadiums in the weekends where the blood-sucking enemys of the peoples will be hanged. Upper-class should be sent into forced labour camps bcoz that is the place where they will learn the real meaning of hard work,everything should be nationalized,and peoples should live in communes.Private properties must be confisicated.

[t.shonku]

Just look at this pics,first one is that of a govt hospital and below is that of a private hospital(look how sophisticated it looks),on the other hand look how the poor patients are sitting on floors in the govt hospital,they are not even given a proper bed.

http://www.sos-arsenic.net/images/hospital.jpg



http://www.stethosglobe.de/a_content_pics/contents/ausland/fam/chir-gyn_ind_09-2007_mj/04_Amri-Hospital.jpg

[Leonid Brozhnev]

This picture I took was in Mankhurd. It's close to Vashi bridge on Salsette Island. I didn't get time to go to Dharavi. Did you know that at one point, the elites of Bombay petitioned the government to ban slum dwellers from voting?

http://www.indiatogether.org/2007/jan/psa-cantvote.htm

That is beyond sickening.



I don't believe in God, but if there is a just God, the Maoists will be victorious one day and they can put these monsters who make one-fifth of humanity live like this up against the fucking wall.

I try not to think that way, but when hearing stuff like this its hard not to agree. Personally, I would drop them off in the Slums and let the poor kick the living shit out of them.

[pranabjyoti]

That is beyond sickening.
Reality of India and we, the people of India are accustomed to it.

[leftace53]

the people of India are accustomed to it.

Thats part of the problem with everything. I know my parents always make up excuses for people like my grandfather (he's quite the sexist imperialist), saying things like "thats how he has always been" or "thats how he grew up". When I last visited India, people were horribly sexist towards me, and when I raised my voice (albeit to my family), they told just told me to "adapt". The poor of India are told to "accept" in the same way, and through little means of education (illiteracy, lack of funds), they have few means of learning how to fight back.

[pranabjyoti]

Thats part of the problem with everything. I know my parents always make up excuses for people like my grandfather (he's quite the sexist imperialist), saying things like "thats how he has always been" or "thats how he grew up". When I last visited India, people were horribly sexist towards me, and when I raised my voice (albeit to my family), they told just told me to "adapt". The poor of India are told to "accept" in the same way, and through little means of education (illiteracy, lack of funds), they have few means of learning how to fight back.
The problem with Indian poor is that, not only they are "adapted" to the situation but if someone speaks for improvement, they oppose him/her in tooth and nails. Their mentality is "we have spent most of our lives in such conditions, why someone would have a better life". That's a typical feudal or semi-feudal Asian mentality. Actually people living there hardly believe that they can have a better life.
Moreover, their mentality it close (from below) to what is described in classical Marxist sociology as "lumpen proletariat". Very little portion of those slum dwellers are factory workers i.e. they aren't among working class, though they are poor. Most are independent service providers or traders. Anti workers mentality is widespread among them (as media, both print and electronic are always provoking it). Lumpens are found easily and often they are used against workers struggle. Most strongly believe that it's the workers, who are responsible for their dwindling life standard. How? WORKERS DON'T WANT TO WORK BUT ALWAYS DEMANDS. TOO MUCH GOVT MONEY IS SPENT BEHIND (ORGANIZED) WORKERS AND VERY LITTLE IS LEFT FOR THEIR IMPROVEMENT.
It's widespread saying among Indian left that "less butter in the bread is sufficient to start a revolution is Europe while just some pinch of salt in rice is sufficient to BLOCK a revolution in India". This saying clearly depicts the difference in mentality of Indian and European people and also explains how people can live and tolerate with such level differences.

[t.shonku]

Originally posted by pranabjyoti
The problem with Indian poor is that, not only they are "adapted" to the situation but if someone speaks for improvement, they oppose him/her in tooth and nails. Their mentality is "we have spent most of our lives in such conditions, why someone would have a better life". That's a typical feudal or semi-feudal Asian mentality. Actually people living there hardly believe that they can have a better life.
Moreover, their mentality it close (from below) to what is described in classical Marxist sociology as "lumpen proletariat". Very little portion of those slum dwellers are factory workers i.e. they aren't among working class, though they are poor. Most are independent service providers or traders. Anti workers mentality is widespread among them (as media, both print and electronic are always provoking it). Lumpens are found easily and often they are used against workers struggle. Most strongly believe that it's the workers, who are responsible for their dwindling life standard. How? WORKERS DON'T WANT TO WORK BUT ALWAYS DEMANDS. TOO MUCH GOVT MONEY IS SPENT BEHIND (ORGANIZED) WORKERS AND VERY LITTLE IS LEFT FOR THEIR IMPROVEMENT.
It's widespread saying among Indian left that "less butter in the bread is sufficient to start a revolution is Europe while just some pinch of salt in rice is sufficient to BLOCK a revolution in India". This saying clearly depicts the difference in mentality of Indian and European people and also explains how people can live and tolerate with such level differences.You are absolutely correct comrade pranab,feudalism in India is our biggest obstacle,in India you will see feudalism everywhere,be it in family,in communities in school in colleges offices everywhere.

But my question is that how will we overcome this feudal mindset?

And I will also agree with you on the question of "lumpen proletariat".These people are the enemys of real working class proletariat.

But then again how will we defeat such tendency?