Mexico teen killed by US Border Patrol, anger high

[Agnapostate]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100609/ap_on_re_us/us_border_patrol_shooting


Mexico teen killed by US Border Patrol, anger high


By CHRISTOPHER SHERMAN and OLIVIA TORRES, Associated Press Writers Christopher Sherman And Olivia Torres, Associated Press Writers – 1 min ago


CIUDAD JUAREZ, Mexico – A U.S. Border Patrol agent fatally shot a 15-year-old Mexican boy after agroup trying to illegally enter Texas threw rocks at officers near downtown El Paso, U.S. authorities said Tuesday.

The shooting, which happened Monday evening beneath a railroad bridge linking the two nations, drew sharp criticism from Mexico, where President Felipe Calderon said Tuesday that his goverment "will use all resources available to protect the rights of Mexican migrants."

The government "reiterates its rejection to the disproportionate use of force on the part on U.S. authorities on the border with Mexico," the president added in a statement.

It was the second death of a Mexican at the hands of Border Patrol officers in less than two weeks, and the case threatened to swell into a full-blown international incident when U.S. and Mexican officials traded suggestions of misconduct.

[...]


Goddamn, but the Yahoo News comments section always seemed to be packed with a bunch of fucking fascists. There's only one other place to find people of that caliber in such numbers: http://www.***************/forum/t715853/

[RedSonRising]

Disgusting. They structurally destroy the economy of a country, demonize, exploit, and outlaw the working people affected, and see nothing wrong with creating a militarized border protection apparatus that leads to the death of an innocent youth and the deaths of countless other oppressed and disadvantaged individuals.

[Ligeia]

Has the mexican government ever tried to protect its migrants in the slightest?
I think the last time Calderon visited Obama (some weeks ago) he did accomplish absolutely zero in regards to immigration laws and the like.
Nonetheless, those comments are horrible to say the least, I hope that isn't the general sentiment in the U.S. population.

[Lacrimi de Chiciură]

Of course the U$ bourgeois press would throw in that he tried to "illegally" cross the border when he lives there and played with friends in the area. His family and eyewitness accounts say that he didn't even cross the border, and the shell was on the Mexican side. These racist trigger happy cops need to go.

There is some videos with witnesses in this link:
http://www.economicrefugee.net/border-patrol-shoots-kills-14-year-old-boy/

Also, in other news about border killings: It looks like the racists will shoot you even if you do have your papers in Arizona, where a Latino man was found dead clutching a birth certificate soaked in blood. (http://immigrationmexicanamerican.blogspot.com/2010/06/breaking-news-did-sb1070-supports-at.html)

[The Fighting_Crusnik]

This is truly sad. Even if she was breaking the law, why would anyone pull a gone on a teen? Seriously... Reform needs to come now and personally, I think amnesty needs to come. Even if there was some compromise, like a penalty tax on migrants that lasted for a few years, I would still be happy with it because stuff like this would become far less common. However, I think that thought and actions need to be put into motion towards rebuilding Mexico and making it not only stable, but desirable by its citizens.

[Tablo]

Very sad to hear. I hope I can someday see an end to borders.

[Red Lion]

I'm not saying shooting the teen was right at all but lets examine this closely and not go straight into demonizing the US mode please.


"CIUDAD JUAREZ, Mexico – A U.S. Border Patrol agent fatally shot a 15-year-old Mexican boy after agroup trying to illegally enter Texas threw rocks at officers near downtown El Paso, U.S. authorities said Tuesday."

Okay, so several things went badly wrong here.


The boy tried to illegally enter the United States. I'm going to risk the rage of the anarchists here by stating my humble opinion that this boy broke a very serious rule here. It doesn't justify the reaction of the border patrol, but he was in the wrong from the start and lets keep that in mind.
The whole group of illegal immigrants threw rocks at the police. As fond as many revleft users may be of doing this, again- it is illegal.
The boy was shot by the border police, a massive overreaction on the behalf of the officer, and he should be seriously reprimanded for this- and an inquiry should be made as to why he felt the need to use such deadly force.

I don't think calling the border patrols "fascists" is appropriate. Not every oppressive ideology is "fascism" and saying that makes us look like idiots.

The boy was, in the wrong. He illegally entered a foreign country, and assaulted a law enforcement officer. You guys should know from personal experience that if you throw rocks at an officer even as a citizen you will get shot at or tear gassed or hit on the head with a nightstick. What the group of immigrants did was completely idiotic. If you get caught border jumping, run and try again later, don't try and fight it out with the police.

Now let me say I'm a UK citizen not a US one, before I get accused of nationalism and banned or crucified for my views here. I'm not supporting the actions of the US border police here one bit, but I'm also not supporting the immigrant who got shot any more.

Illegal immigration, as much as anarchists might like to romanticize it, hurts US jobs. Fact. Corporations are much happier to hire a Mexican for a dollar an hour than an American who will demand five dollars. When Mexicans jump the border, they are oppressed by the Americans who employ them. They rarely find a better life, they're abused and exploited. And at the same time, an American worker loses his job.

There simply is no space for illegal immigrants, I'm sorry but from a realist point of view there just isn't. Until we reach 0% unemployment, we cannot afford to have Mexicans sneaking into the country and working. If we had full employment, and still had a lot of jobs that needed doing, then yes we could and should open up the borders. But we don't, and there are plenty of Americans who need those jobs.

Illegal immigration hurts immigrants, hurts natives, and helps corporations. Thats the fact. And its dangerous, and those people knew the risks. The kind of person who volunteers for US border duty should tell you something, we're not talking about run of the mill cops here, these are committed nationalists.

Was the cop right to shoot that boy? Absolutely not.
Was the boy right to jump the border? No.

[Red Lion]

However, I think that thought and actions need to be put into motion towards rebuilding Mexico and making it not only stable, but desirable by its citizens.

My thoughts exactly. And I'm not sure how comrades who advocate EZLN could possibly think anything different, Mexico needs fixing- not to relocate to Texas.

[Agnapostate]

You might want to leave the faux-anecdotal perceptions of the "consequences" of illegal/undocumented Mexican and Central American immigration to those of us that actually live in communities with significant numbers.

[Red Lion]

You might want to leave the faux-anecdotal perceptions of the "consequences" of illegal/undocumented Mexican and Central American immigration to those of us that actually live in communities with significant numbers.

Yes, because clearly there are no immigrants in the UK at all.

</sarcasm>

[Zapatas Guns]

Was the cop right to shoot that boy? Absolutely not.
Was the boy right to jump the border? No.

The answer is no and Yes.

He wouldn't have to cross the border if the border hadn't crossed him. What is even worse is the anti immigrant sentiment that sees no problem with a summary execution for a misdemeanor offense. :mad:

I think you should stick to UK politics since England doesn't have any immigrants apparently :rolleyes: The U.S. has been exploiting Mexico and Latin America for a very long time. Hell, Texas to California was Manifest Destiny and it has been treated that way ever since.

[Red Lion]

The answer is no and Yes.

He wouldn't have to cross the border if the border hadn't crossed him. What is even worse is the anti immigrant sentiment that sees no problem with a summary execution for a misdemeanor offense. :mad:

I think you should stick to UK politics since England doesn't have any immigrants apparently :rolleyes: The U.S. has been exploiting Mexico and Latin America for a very long time. Hell, Texas to California was Manifest Destiny and it has been treated that way ever since.

The bottom line is, you don't cross borders illegally. Its illegal. End of. The punishment was disproportionate, but the boy was in the wrong. Crossing a border illegally is not a misdemeanor offense. And neither is assaulting a police officer who was doing his job.

[Zapatas Guns]

The bottom line is, you don't cross borders illegally. Its illegal. End of. The punishment was disproportionate, but the boy was in the wrong. Crossing a border illegally is not a misdemeanor offense. And neither is assaulting a police officer who was doing his job.

So if it is illegal for a slave to run away it is illegal and shouldn't be done period? If it is illegal for a Jew to rebel and attack a Nazi in Germany than it is illegal end of story?

Why should they or I respect a racist law? Why should anyone really respect U.S. laws when the U.S. is the most racist and imperialist country in the world right now. Fuck that.

[fredbergen]

The bottom line is you're a chauvinist pig apologist for imperialism, Red Lion. Communists demand full citizenship rights for all immigrants.

[fredbergen]

Even if there was some compromise, like a penalty tax on migrants that lasted for a few years, I would still be happy with it because stuff like this would become far less common. However, I think that thought and actions need to be put into motion towards rebuilding Mexico and making it not only stable, but desirable by its citizens.

Wow, "anarcho-communism" must be a new word for national-reformism.

Are you seriously proposing a race tax?

Full citizenship rights for all immigrants! Mobilize workers power to defend immigrants! Give the southwest U.S. back to a red Mexico!

[Nolan]

Ah, so here's their logic:


I wonder how many "homicides" have been committed by mexican officials against American citizens?

How does protecting our borders from an ILLEGAL ALIEN qualify as a homicide?

Does that mean if I kill a house invader, I will go to jail for murder?

So the ILLEGAL ALIENS are the only ones with rights anymore?

Hey, Border Patrol. Keep up the good work. You're doing America a great service by keeping [email protected]#$%roaches out of this Once-great nation. This should also be added to immigration reform: shoot illegals first then ask questions later. Simple and plain.


I hope this sends a message to all those breaking into our country.

Just fuck. FUCK. The Soviets should have nuked this country.

[Lacrimi de Chiciură]

Illegal immigration, as much as anarchists might like to romanticize it, hurts US jobs. Fact. Corporations are much happier to hire a Mexican for a dollar an hour than an American who will demand five dollars. When Mexicans jump the border, they are oppressed by the Americans who employ them. They rarely find a better life, they're abused and exploited. And at the same time, an American worker loses his job.

There simply is no space for illegal immigrants, I'm sorry but from a realist point of view there just isn't. Until we reach 0% unemployment, we cannot afford to have Mexicans sneaking into the country and working. If we had full employment, and still had a lot of jobs that needed doing, then yes we could and should open up the borders. But we don't, and there are plenty of Americans who need those jobs.

Illegal immigration hurts immigrants, hurts natives, and helps corporations. Thats the fact. And its dangerous, and those people knew the risks. The kind of person who volunteers for US border duty should tell you something, we're not talking about run of the mill cops here, these are committed nationalists.

Illegal immigrants may "help" corporations by working for low wages, but all workers, legal and illegal, create the corporate profits through their labor. And all the workers, legal and illegal, are exploited by the same common enemy. Immigrants are some of the most radicalized workers, precisely because they are the most exploited workers. Much of the gains of the communist and anarchist labor movement in the early part of the 20th century was thanks to the same type of super-exploited immigrants that today come from different countries. There are upwards 12 million illegal immigrants in the United $tate$: these people make an enormous contribution to production. In Texas alone, illegal immigrants created $424.7 million, money that went straight to the government (http://www.truthout.org/undocumented-immigrants-pay-more-taxes-than-they-receive-benefits59264). So it's not just corporations, it's the capitalist state who also benefits from "illegal" workers. Trying to get the capitalist state to turn on itself is a futile effort.

And why should "Americans" (as if the working masses and the rich could all be the same) have special privileges to work and live on land that was begotten through imperialist war and genocide?

Why should we help the capitalist state and the corporations by dividing the proletariat between legal and illegal, keeping us from fighting our common enemy?

Seriously, I would like to know how you reconcile being a labor advocate with advocating against the most exploited laborers... to the detriment of all workers, legal and illegal.

Not to mention though, this kid who was shot wasn't even an immigrant. He was just a kid playing along the border.

[FriendlyLocalViking]

Wow. The event sucks, the comments here suck more, and the comments on the article itself suck even more than that.

There's a lot of suck going around.

As RedLion said, kid broke a rule, so he should have expected retribution. Granted, not anythign NEARLY as bad as that, but he shouldn't have expected to get away scot-free.

I understand that you guys oppose borders, I do too. HOWEVER, you have to live with the reality that they ARE there, and you have to work around them and respect the authority that that has, as it's been proven just now that they'll shoot at you if you don't.

[FriendlyLocalViking]

Not to mention though, this kid who was shot wasn't even an immigrant. He was just a kid playing along the border.

Oh wow :blink:

[Lacrimi de Chiciură]

Oh wow :blink:

His family lives in Ciudad Juarez and he was known to hang out along the river, so no he wasn't an immigrant. What evidence do you have that he was throwing rocks or that he crossed the border, when the shell casing was on the Mexican side and there were other people there as well who might have been throwing rocks?

[The Vegan Marxist]

Wow. The event sucks, the comments here suck more, and the comments on the article itself suck even more than that.

There's a lot of suck going around.

As RedLion said, kid broke a rule, so he should have expected retribution. Granted, not anythign NEARLY as bad as that, but he shouldn't have expected to get away scot-free.

I understand that you guys oppose borders, I do too. HOWEVER, you have to live with the reality that they ARE there, and you have to work around them and respect the authority that that has, as it's been proven just now that they'll shoot at you if you don't.

Um, I don't think the kid, nor anyone crossing, was thinking nothing would come out from them crossing the border. They all know the risks. They all know what might happen. That is an irrelevant argument to be used. We're looking at the fact that the kid tried crossing (like many others have), threw rocks in self-defense against the cops who were going stop them & more than likely lock them up until returned back home (like many others as well), but then a cop shot him down! Now, if this was the type of rock throwing that we saw in Kyrgyzstan, alright, maybe he had some justification there to pull out a gun, but I seriously doubt there were hundreds of Mexicans there crossing all at once. What needs to be put into question is whether the cop had any justification on shooting down the kid or not, not whether the kid did the right thing or not.

[The Red Next Door]

I'm not saying shooting the teen was right at all but lets examine this closely and not go straight into demonizing the US mode please.



Okay, so several things went badly wrong here.


The boy tried to illegally enter the United States. I'm going to risk the rage of the anarchists here by stating my humble opinion that this boy broke a very serious rule here. It doesn't justify the reaction of the border patrol, but he was in the wrong from the start and lets keep that in mind.
The whole group of illegal immigrants threw rocks at the police. As fond as many revleft users may be of doing this, again- it is illegal.
The boy was shot by the border police, a massive overreaction on the behalf of the officer, and he should be seriously reprimanded for this- and an inquiry should be made as to why he felt the need to use such deadly force.

I don't think calling the border patrols "fascists" is appropriate. Not every oppressive ideology is "fascism" and saying that makes us look like idiots.

The boy was, in the wrong. He illegally entered a foreign country, and assaulted a law enforcement officer. You guys should know from personal experience that if you throw rocks at an officer even as a citizen you will get shot at or tear gassed or hit on the head with a nightstick. What the group of immigrants did was completely idiotic. If you get caught border jumping, run and try again later, don't try and fight it out with the police.

Now let me say I'm a UK citizen not a US one, before I get accused of nationalism and banned or crucified for my views here. I'm not supporting the actions of the US border police here one bit, but I'm also not supporting the immigrant who got shot any more.

Illegal immigration, as much as anarchists might like to romanticize it, hurts US jobs. Fact. Corporations are much happier to hire a Mexican for a dollar an hour than an American who will demand five dollars. When Mexicans jump the border, they are oppressed by the Americans who employ them. They rarely find a better life, they're abused and exploited. And at the same time, an American worker loses his job.

There simply is no space for illegal immigrants, I'm sorry but from a realist point of view there just isn't. Until we reach 0% unemployment, we cannot afford to have Mexicans sneaking into the country and working. If we had full employment, and still had a lot of jobs that needed doing, then yes we could and should open up the borders. But we don't, and there are plenty of Americans who need those jobs.

Illegal immigration hurts immigrants, hurts natives, and helps corporations. Thats the fact. And its dangerous, and those people knew the risks. The kind of person who volunteers for US border duty should tell you something, we're not talking about run of the mill cops here, these are committed nationalists.

Was the cop right to shoot that boy? Absolutely not.
Was the boy right to jump the border? No.


Yeah, they were wrong to throw the rocks at them, but they was scare, You know that the border guard seems to go, all out to get immigrants, using helicopters etc. that shit is scary, especially when they are having police dogs hunting them down.

Also, you do not have any idea, how bureaucratic and expensive the immigration process is. And not only that they can't understand the lawyerist language of the immigration process, these people are not very educate, and they live in the most horrible situation, which this country is heading to and we might have to move to your country, maybe illegal. when it get that extreme point.

[Nolan]

:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:


It's too bad some young kid got shot. I've got nothing against the migrants trying to come to the US to make a living for themselves and their families. It's the @#$% Marxists they should be shooting - the people who are smuggling drugs into the US and who are trying to use illegal, Marxist-friendly leeches to bilk the US welfare system.

To be honest, I don't care if they shoot Marxists, whether they were born here or not. They're equivalent to National Socialists, and at least as racist. But I expect they'll get kids to do their dirty work for them, just as they do with gangs here in the US.

[The Vegan Marxist]

:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

Link please??:laugh:

[Nolan]

Link please??:laugh:

Just look through the comments. You probably shouldn't though if you don't want to loose your faith in humanity.

[FriendlyLocalViking]

:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

rofl

[The Fighting_Crusnik]

I'm making an attempt at a compromise since the conservatives will fight nail and tooth over kicking out every illegal immigrant. Just as all illegal immigrants are not just from one place, this tax will not affect only those from one place. And it's only an idea and I don't consider it desirable tbh.

(refferring to early comment)

[FriendlyLocalViking]

I figure I'll share my favourite immigration debate moment:

There was a town hall meeting, and this white guy was railing against immigration and then he said "I think we should make all the immigrants go back to wherever it was they came from!"

A Native American man behind him stood up and said "I agree."

[The Vegan Marxist]

I figure I'll share my favourite immigration debate moment:

There was a town hall meeting, and this white guy was railing against immigration and then he said "I think we should make all the immigrants go back to wherever it was they came from!"

A Native American man behind him stood up and said "I agree."

:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

[Agnapostate]

At least Mexican and Central American migrant laborers are generally indigenous to North America, if not the specific region they travel to. The "lawmakers" are European illegal aliens. :D

[fredbergen]

What is so funny about this topic?

Why are so many people joking about this?

This is serious.

[Zapatas Guns]

Wow. The event sucks, the comments here suck more, and the comments on the article itself suck even more than that.

There's a lot of suck going around.

As RedLion said, kid broke a rule, so he should have expected retribution. Granted, not anythign NEARLY as bad as that, but he shouldn't have expected to get away scot-free.

I understand that you guys oppose borders, I do too. HOWEVER, you have to live with the reality that they ARE there, and you have to work around them and respect the authority that that has, as it's been proven just now that they'll shoot at you if you don't.


I don't respect or acknowledge any authority that is racist, imperialist, and unjust.:blackA: Unjust laws are meant to be broken. You say you oppose borders? Very well. How then, do you propose to change that? You think these fuck-heads will just give it all up and go home because some far left winger talks shit on a message forum? It requires action. I will not submit to that authority and I encourage others not to either. They want summary executions for minor offenses.

Did you see the brain shit people are spewing over on stormfront about this? Someone posted the link. They make me want to puke it is so disgusting. Those are the people and ideas that are being defended here.

[FinnMacCool]

Even if the kid was in the wrong initially for throwing rocks, that doesn't mean that we should not continue our fight for migrant workers as well as a de-militarized border. We need to keep things in perspective. This unfortunate death would not have happened if it had not been for the US's stupid immigration laws as well as the militarization of the border.

[the last donut of the night]

The bottom line is, you don't cross borders illegally. Its illegal. End of. The punishment was disproportionate, but the boy was in the wrong. Crossing a border illegally is not a misdemeanor offense. And neither is assaulting a police officer who was doing his job.

i think you'd be more welcome here, bucko:

http://www.***************/forum/t715853/

[FinnMacCool]

Although I disagree with Red Lion, I think we should be fair to him. He obviously has some views that aren't totally in line with the rest of us, but that doesn't mean we should troll him either.

[Nolan]

Although I disagree with Red Lion, I think we should be fair to him. He obviously has some views that aren't totally in line with the rest of us, but that doesn't mean we should troll him either.

If you sympathize with an apologist for racism, then fuck you too.

[FinnMacCool]

If you sympathize with an apologist for racism, then fuck you too.

Your taking this way too seriously, buddy.

This is an internet forum. not the Russian Revolution.

[The Vegan Marxist]

Your taking this way too seriously, buddy.

This is an internet forum. not the Russian Revolution.

I wish!

[Nolan]

Your taking this way too seriously, buddy.

This is an internet forum. not the Russian Revolution.

Ah. I guess we shouldn't ban racists on principle. After all, it's "only an internet forum."

[FinnMacCool]

I was referring more to you calling me a "sympathizer" for a "racist apologist".

Nothing Red Lion said even remotely suggests that he is a racist. I will say that his comments weren't very radical as compared to most of us here, but what do you want?? A forum for a bunch of people who constantly agree with each other?

I don't think I said anything out of line here. I just simply think we shouldn't be so quick to flame and attack people for their personal opinion. Is that so horrible?

[GreenCommunism]

i agree that we shouldn't gang up on the only one who has a different opinion but then again i think he is a bit naive. first off the kid was 15, racists often think that teenagers of other races are just as dangerous as adults.

his words were a bit offensive to common sense and lacked a bit of compassion. anyway.
here is how fox news covers the border agent asses. like it matters whatever the kid what. i don't even care if the kid was a murderer or a rapist.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/06/09/mexican-teen-killed-border-known-juvenile-smuggler-source-says/

fox news just keeps pumping retarded and fake stories to cover horrible acts. they now claim that many people in the flotilla has terrorist link for example and now this.

[Tablo]

That boy had all the right in the world to jump that fucking border. Borders are for nationalist pigs who all deserve a merciless death at the hands of the working class.

[Wanted Man]

Although I disagree with Red Lion, I think we should be fair to him. He obviously has some views that aren't totally in line with the rest of us, but that doesn't mean we should troll him either.

Why not? He sounds like a condescending twat, not just in this thread, but also in others where he defends his dear old Labour Party. He's coolly rationalising the murder of a child by state officers because "it's illegal after all; the kid was in the wrong". It is only logical that most people will not count to 10 before responding. This Lion character can get stuffed for all I care; if I got pissed off about every time someone said something dumb and offensive on the internet, I wouldn't have much free time. But of course other people, especially in the US, are more aware of and more connected to the immigration issue, so they give responses like that.

[Lacrimi de Chiciură]

If it had been a 15 year old American kid who was shot by Mexican border cops, Fox News would be calling for a war with Mexico.

[Bad Grrrl Agro]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100609/ap_on_re_us/us_border_patrol_shooting




Goddamn, but the Yahoo News comments section always seemed to be packed with a bunch of fucking fascists. There's only one other place to find people of that caliber in such numbers: http://www.***************/forum/t715853/

That is truly tragic. I'm very saddened by this.:(

[Agnapostate]

The boy tried to illegally enter the United States. I'm going to risk the rage of the anarchists here by stating my humble opinion that this boy broke a very serious rule here. It doesn't justify the reaction of the border patrol, but he was in the wrong from the start and lets keep that in mind.

This is an assertion without argumentative support. The premise that legal and ethical standards are universally parallel is incorrect, considering that racial segregation policies were once legal, while violation of them was not.


The whole group of illegal immigrants threw rocks at the police. As fond as many revleft users may be of doing this, again- it is illegal.

The above point about illegality still stands, but the more important point that's been made is that rock throwing potentially constitutes an assault with deadly weapon, with comparisons to stoning having been made. Unless the border patrol officer was submerged in the ground with multiple people throwing heavy stones at him at close range (and we'd expect him to have been struck if that was the case), the comparison was not valid. A few pebbles that did not actually strike anyone is cause for chasing people away, not lethal force.


The boy was shot by the border police, a massive overreaction on the behalf of the officer, and he should be seriously reprimanded for this- and an inquiry should be made as to why he felt the need to use such deadly force. I don't think calling the border patrols "fascists" is appropriate. Not every oppressive ideology is "fascism" and saying that makes us look like idiots.

Seriously reprimanded? If the conclusive evidence is indeed that the shooting occurred in Mexico, he should be prosecuted for homicide there. There is angry reaction to disproportionate violence committed by a representative of an authoritarian institution. Angry terms might be used.


The boy was, in the wrong. He illegally entered a foreign country, and assaulted a law enforcement officer. You guys should know from personal experience that if you throw rocks at an officer even as a citizen you will get shot at or tear gassed or hit on the head with a nightstick. What the group of immigrants did was completely idiotic. If you get caught border jumping, run and try again later, don't try and fight it out with the police.

Throwing rocks that do not injure anyone are not attempts to "try and fight it out with the police." If they were making such an attempt, they would have probably been armed with automatic weapons.


Now let me say I'm a UK citizen not a US one, before I get accused of nationalism and banned or crucified for my views here. I'm not supporting the actions of the US border police here one bit, but I'm also not supporting the immigrant who got shot any more.

That equivalence is false, since one person who was a representative of an authoritarian institution made an on-the-spot decision to lethally harm another person.


Illegal immigration, as much as anarchists might like to romanticize it, hurts US jobs. Fact. Corporations are much happier to hire a Mexican for a dollar an hour than an American who will demand five dollars. When Mexicans jump the border, they are oppressed by the Americans who employ them. They rarely find a better life, they're abused and exploited. And at the same time, an American worker loses his job.

Cite peer-reviewed empirical research from a reputable economic journal that supports this claim.


There simply is no space for illegal immigrants, I'm sorry but from a realist point of view there just isn't. Until we reach 0% unemployment, we cannot afford to have Mexicans sneaking into the country and working. If we had full employment, and still had a lot of jobs that needed doing, then yes we could and should open up the borders. But we don't, and there are plenty of Americans who need those jobs.

Full employment (with only natural unemployment existing) is impossible to achieve in the capitalist economy, with a literal rate of 0% unemployment an even higher mark, due to the existing trends of cyclical and frictional unemployment, even if there are reductions in structural unemployment. There is not significant unemployment caused by the presence of illegal and undocumented laborers (who are often Central American and not Mexican, incidentally), because there is an inordinately high demand for low-skilled labor in the U.S. economy anyway. There are probably wage reductions caused, but that is due to their confinement to the informal labor market and inability to acquire human capital caused by their prohibition from public education.

Incidentally, I usually criticize actual U.S. citizens for saying "we" to refer to governmental policies, since they have no influence over them, but it's even worse that you would say that.


Illegal immigration hurts immigrants, hurts natives, and helps corporations. Thats the fact. And its dangerous, and those people knew the risks. The kind of person who volunteers for US border duty should tell you something, we're not talking about run of the mill cops here, these are committed nationalists.

Illegal immigration is symptomatic of benefits for multinational corporations, not a causative factor. It has increased in the last two decades because international wage differentials and unemployment have become more pronounced as a result of the expansion of trade liberalization, with a good example being the damage to the agrarian lifestyles of the Zapotec and Mixtex Indians of Oaxaca, who are forced into flight to urban centers by the damage that capitalism has wrought, and then compelled to emigrate from Oaxaca to the United States. The racial hierarchies that placed indigenous peoples at the bottom of the social rung as a result of illegal European immigration certainly played a role in their original impoverishment.

Are you sure you're a socialist?