Since Communists are Atheists how do Communists overcome the fear of death ? I try to

[tradeunionsupporter]

Since Communists are Atheists how do Communists overcome the fear of death ?

[Os Cangaceiros]

I'm a fan of the "borrowed energy" take on life, personally.

For example: I've known a good number of people who've drowned at sea. When someone dies in the ocean, their body provides food for all sorts of crabs and creatures, who will in turn die and provide the building blocks for new life. And the cycle continues.

[mikelepore]

You make it sound as thought people can choose their opinions. People don't choose their opinions. It seems to us that something is true. Whether right or wrong, it seems that there is a preponderance of evidence for some conclusion. We find that situation. We have no choice in it.

[A.R.Amistad]

Since Communists are Atheists

not true, simply most communists and the bulk of the major communist theoreticians. There are many religious communists and even some religious 'Marxists.' Liberation Theology and the Islamic Left are a few good examples.


ow do Communists overcome the fear of death ?

The same way we overcome fear of mistakes, fear of falling from cliffs and fear of our significant other cheating on us. We accept it and go on with our lives. The only thing that separates these everyday fears from fear of death is that death is absolutely inevitable. Honestly, I don't understand the fear of death. I myself embrace its inevitability as something that makes my life valuable. Live life to the fullest. Quit worrying about the inevitable end, since thats all it is, an end. am more focused on creating a sort of everlasting essence of myself through my deeds and labor so that my legacy, essence, whatever you want to call it will be immortal and I will have lived a noble life. Its kind of hard to live a noble life and be immortal, since you never get to become truly "noble."

[leftace53]

There is really no point in fearing death, its just another part of life, and frankly without it, life would be way too long and pointless. I'm not afraid of death, I'm afraid of dying. How I'm going to make the transition is a tad intimidating, I don't know if I'll die of old age, or from murder, or from a piano falling on me.

What does atheism, or religion at all have to do with overcoming the fear of death? Its not like I'd be any less scared of the process of dying if I believed I would go to heaven afterwards. Honestly, I'd rather not have an after life at all, I can only imagine how bored I would get of being in heaven/hell for eternity.

Also, not all commies are atheists.

[Nolan]

Also, not all commies are atheists.

Ignostics are more awesomer. ;)

[synthesis]

Maybe this is too off-topic, but how is your title longer than your post? What'd you leave out?

[Red Lion]

Most communists are atheists, but not all. Theres a movement of christian communists, do a google or wikipedia search.

[bcbm]

drinking.

[Red Lion]

Also- most socialists and communists are motivated to do good by more than fear of hell, I may be verging from the topic slightly here but I think its important.

We do not fear death, because there is either nothing after death, obliteration of all our memories and the decomposing of the chemicals which create our thoughts and feelings and shape our perceptions of the world around us, or an afterlife we know nothing of.

If there is nothing, there is no reason to allow religion to constrict us in empowering and improving the lives of our fellow men- we do not live in isolation and we are motivated by love for our fellow men, and those who will be left behind when we die. True communists can leave existence knowing that they tried their best to improve the world, and that they did not hurt or oppress anyone in the process of their lives. Many of us do not feel the need to justify why we are here, all we know for sure is that we are here, there is work to be done, and we're going to do our best to do it or die trying.

In the situation where there is an afterlife, I am confident that true comrades will be rewarded in it. Marxism is the truest expression of love, love for your fellow man, your community, your family, your planet. Any god that would condemn a man or woman as true of heart and moral fibre as a Marxist (assuming they have not committed evil acts alongside their beliefs such as rape or murder) is not worthy of worship in the first place.

We do not know, so we don't worry. We worry about what we know, because it is more important than lofty concepts of god for the most people involved. If I am condemned to eternal torture for my actions, but greatly improved the lives of the masses who are still alive, and their children, and their children's children- I will take my punishment from god willingly and happily.

Will Stalin go to heaven? No- he hurt too many people for no good cause.
Will Marx go to heaven? Yes- he made sacrifices for his fellow man, abandoning the life of the bourgeoisie for abject poverty in London, out of love for his fellow man, when he could have kept his mouth shut and stayed home in luxury as the son of a factory owner.
Will the pope go to heaven? No- just like Stalin, he does not practice what he preaches
Will the atheist socialist murdered by riot police at a rally go to heaven? Yes- he made the greatest sacrifice for people he never even met, and those who are not yet born.
Will a christian banker go to heaven? No- he sacrificed the lives of many for his bonus, so he could live in luxury while other, innocent people who did NOTHING wrong at all died on the NHS waiting list as a result of the cuts he forced the government to make.

[explosive toaster]

drinking.
Yeah, definitely! :lol:

Obviously, people deal with the fear of death very differently. It doesn't really have much to do with communism, in my opinion, because communism is just a political theory and not all communists are atheists, as many people have said. Also, you can be spiritual and atheist. Like, I have one communist friend that worries about death and dying all the time to the point that it keeps her up at night sometimes and another that hadn't really thought about it until just recently and dealt with his fear of death by turning to metaphysics.
Personally, I'm atheist and I don't really worry that much about death anymore. Just live for the moment because it's really all you've got.

[9]

drinking.

qft.


Also- most socialists and communists are motivated to do good by more than fear of hell, I may be verging from the topic slightly here but I think its important.

We do not fear death, because...

Speak for yourself. Communism isn't a religion. It has no "official" perspective on death.
As someone else pointed out, communism is a political theory. It is also a living struggle against exploitation and oppression, and for a new world - for self-emancipation. It has nothing to do with 'benevolence' or being motivated to 'do good'.

Though, personally, I agree with leftace53 - I am not afraid of death, but I am very much afraid of the process of dying.
Two of the most intense fears are the fear of extreme pain, and the fear of the unknown. My fear of dying comes primarily from fear of extreme pain (and also, secondarily, from fear of the unknown, to the extent that I don't know whether I will die a super-extremely painful death).
I think the actual fear of being dead, which I personally do not struggle with, comes primarily from fear of the unknown. And I think this is why most atheists don't fear actually being dead, because we know death = the ultimate termination of an individual's consciousness, and so we know there is no "unknown" beyond death, since there is no longer any consciousness with which to "know".

To the OP, you might be interested in looking into the perspective of Epicurus on death. If nothing else, it is very interesting.

[RedRise]

As 9 said, dying shouldn't be something people are afraid of unless they believe they are going to die a painful and horrific death. No one can know for certain but unless you are in the army or live in a war zone this is fairly unlikely.
Since the human consciousness cannot comprehend what death actually feels like, nor can it recreate the feeling of not being conscious, we should not make assumptions about things we don't know.
Still, if one is going to have a theory to stick by, I'd definitely steer clear of any heaven-or-hell type stuff. The 'borrowed energy' theory is a better idea although I like the 'parallel worlds'. Possibly it is our consciousness itself that is reborn in some form (not necessarily as what we'd classify a living organism) while the rest of us - brain matter included - eventually becomes stardust once more. I mean, we don't know that consciousness isn't something like the soul that is separate from our physical form.
But I'd stress - that's just my own personal theory. And you can't deny that we're all going to find out some day. At any rate, I see no reason for it to be a terrifying prospect.

[AK]

As I said in the older thread about this...

I've always used being a communist as a strategy to beat my "thanatophobia". I figure if I manage to spend my entire life fighting for something great that will improve the lives of everyone on the planet then I'll have forgotten my phobia whilst I was sidetracked for 70-odd years.

To put it simply: to hold back your fear of death, you need to pre-occupy yourself.
http://www.revleft.com/vb/did-you-first-t136039/index.html

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

Since Communists are Atheists how do Communists overcome the fear of death ?

Why do we need overcome the fear of death in the first place? Death is a reasonable thing to fear, I would think.

Of course, there is a difference between having a healthy appreciation for one's mortality and constantly hiding under the bed.

The finality of death is why I think we should abolish it.

[Raúl Duke]

There is really no point in fearing death, its just another part of life, and frankly without it, life would be way too long and pointless. I'm not afraid of death, I'm afraid of dying. How I'm going to make the transition is a tad intimidating, I don't know if I'll die of old age, or from murder, or from a piano falling on me.

What does atheism, or religion at all have to do with overcoming the fear of death? Its not like I'd be any less scared of the process of dying if I believed I would go to heaven afterwards. Honestly, I'd rather not have an after life at all, I can only imagine how bored I would get of being in heaven/hell for eternity.

QFT


drinking.

This

[Nolan]

The finality of death is why I think we should abolish it.

Uhm, what?

[Invincible Summer]

Uhm, what?

Transhumanism.



I think most atheists just see death as a natural occurrence and figure that when they die, they die. Everything (except for that immortal jellyfish thing) dies, so why get all worked up about it? I mean, I would prefer not to die, but I realize it will probably happen. IMO, fear of death is fairly childish, almost a non-acceptance of reality.

Although I am a transhumanist, I am not paranoid about death, although I do think that we should use technology to work towards eventually making death more or less unnatural. I realize technology is not at this point yet (and it probably won't be for awhile), so I advocate healthspan-increase more than immortality technology, but that's an aside.

I think religious people have a much greater fear of death than atheists do, since they worry about having an afterlife and whatnot.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

Uhm, what?

It does seem ambitious, I will grant you that. But there is no physical reason why life as a process cannot be extended indefinately; one only has to observe the vast variety of lifespans to be found in nature, from the ephemeral E. Coli to the millennial stretches that trees can survive.

Of course, applying that knowledge to humans won't be easy, but who said that liberation would be easy in the first place?

[RED DAVE]

One of the things that helps, and, of course, this is not particular to the Left, is, as you get older, you get to see other people, people you love, die. You see what dying is. It's usually not very pleasant, and it hurts those left behind for a time, but the pain fades with time.

RED DAVE

[al8]

Since Communists are Atheists how do Communists overcome the fear of death ?

I view it a problem that should not be ignored, philosophized about or be overcome in emotional terms. But a real problem to be solved, something to be solved in material terms. In regards to aging, the major cause of death, it is a problem to be solved by medical science. There has yet to be developed maintainance procedures for humans the same as has worked wonders for prolonging the life-span of vehicles. Aubrey de Grey (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aubrey_de_Grey) has advocated for such a strategy for combating aging.

The same scinetific way at looking at death prevention should guide all other fields, such as having a zero-fatality policy at workplaces.

[Demogorgon]

Well not all COmmunists are atheists and certainly most atheists probably aren't communists, so it is a question to be posed generally at atheists rather than Communists in particular.

But speaking for myself, I don't fear my own death that much. I mean I don't want it to come any time soon and I don't think about it too much and when I do it is without dread. It is fear of loved one's dying that bothers me much more.

Still death is something that comes to us all and there is no getting around it. Personally I fell that the absence of any belief in a life to come is a good motivator to try and make the one we have that much better.

[Headmaster Ritual]

I envision death as something to look forward to. I'm an atheist, and obviously I don't know what lies 'beyond', but I think it'll either be absolutely nothing - so no consciousness, or some sort existence where you can create situations that you'd want to have lived out on Earth - hoping this one is right. However, the thing about that is, I always tend to worry myself with the concept of perpetual consciousness. If reincarnation is true then I assume people do it due to boredom.

Anyway, death is, I should hope, some sort of reward after an arduous, oppressive life.

[Adi Shankara]

not true, simply most communists and the bulk of the major communist theoreticians. There are many religious communists and even some religious 'Marxists.' Liberation Theology and the Islamic Left are a few good examples.


Also, don't forget both Thomas Sankara and Julius Nyere who were both Catholic (although they practiced African socialism, which was different than communism), current Maoist Nepali leader Prachanda, who admits he is a Hindu, and Daniel Ortega, a Catholic who was so popular with the clergy, that many broke with the official stance in Rome and backed the FSLN against the Contras.

Truth is, I don't see why so many people see that they have to be atheist or "anti-religion" to be Communist. meanwhile, Trotskyists seem to be in support of religion, as per Leon Trotsky's official stance that religious freedom must be fought for:

"Of course, supporting the *church* is out of the question. For us it
can only be a question of whether or not we support the *political
struggle* of Catholics and Protestants to remain Catholics and
Protestants and to act as such. The answer to this question is yes. It
goes without saying that we do not in the process commit ourselves to
supporting religion and the church, but rather emphasise, insofar as
possible, our opposition to religion and the church.
“However it is not clear to me what that has to do with the slogan
‘Down with the Radical ministers’ (not just the ex-ministers). This
slogan is nothing more than the demand to break with
*class-collaborationist front*. Since the reformists and the
Stalinists refuse to carry out this break, they will be compromised in
the eyes of the workers. Hence the slogan ‘Bourgeois Radicals out of
the People’s Front’ is a completely correct Marxist slogan at the
present time.
“Let us suppose, and this is not so difficult to imagine, that
tomorrow the [French] fascists begin to storm Freemason temples or
smash Radical newspapers (and this has already occurred episodically).
It goes without saying that the workers will take to the streets to
help defend the Freemason temples. But what is Freemasonry. It too is
a kind of church charged with making the free-thinking petty
bourgeoisie pliant to the interests of high finance. Can we support
Freemasonry? No, never. We can and must, however, defend its right to
exist against the fascist attacks, with gun in hand if necessary. To
be capable of this, the working class must stay revolutionary-minded
and ready to fight. However, the People’s Front makes this impossible.
For this reason it is necessary to drive the Radical bourgeoisie out
of the People’s Front to be able to defend even Freemasonry, should
the occasion arise. There isn’t the slightest contradiction here.”

That was from Leon Trotsky, in 1934. so it shows, Marxism by it's definition, isn't anti-religion. not even close, just anti-religion when it comes to uprooting the establishment that helps to oppress.

[Dimitri Molotov]

Most communists are atheists, but not all. Theres a movement of christian communists, do a google or wikipedia search.

thats me! :D

[ReDSC]

As has been pointed out, not all communists are athiests. As an agnostic, I personally overcome the fear of death by doing what I believe to be "ethically/morally correct" in life, which is communism.

[revolution inaction]

i assume that the people who claim not to fear death also don't look when they cross the road?

[NGNM85]

As a history professor I knew once said; "It's not the death, it's the dying." as an atheist I'm as positive as I can be that death is nothingness, the absence of existence. So there's nothing unplesant about the state of being dead. My concern is with the process of becoming dead. That is, admittedly, a little disturbing. However, all I can do is try my best to avoid it.

[piet11111]

drinking.

This and sex.

[A.R.Amistad]

Transhumanism.



I think most atheists just see death as a natural occurrence and figure that when they die, they die. Everything (except for that immortal jellyfish thing) dies, so why get all worked up about it? I mean, I would prefer not to die, but I realize it will probably happen. IMO, fear of death is fairly childish, almost a non-acceptance of reality.

Although I am a transhumanist, I am not paranoid about death, although I do think that we should use technology to work towards eventually making death more or less unnatural. I realize technology is not at this point yet (and it probably won't be for awhile), so I advocate healthspan-increase more than immortality technology, but that's an aside.

I think religious people have a much greater fear of death than atheists do, since they worry about having an afterlife and whatnot.


stop being so sad and embrace the inevitable :)

[Lenina Rosenweg]

As far fearing death and considering the posibility of prolonging human life we have to ask, what ends when we die? What exactly do we want to prolong? I'm not necessarily challenging the transhumnists ideas, but the issue is more complicated than "wouldn't it be cool if we could live forever?"

Our body is constantly recreating itself. Elements and compounds are being replaced. When we die our body will eventually be recycled into the biosphere. Out personal identity changes-you're not the same person now as when you were 12. Our memory bank appears more stable but even that changes. We lose memories and actually make up or modify others.On a more superficial level our sense of personal identity changes. People in traditional cultures, China and Native American tribes among others, would choose different names at various stages of life.

In a way we die second by second.

What is the "self" that we are afraid of losing?

BTW I don't mean to sound overly Buddhist and I do not have answers myself. I just think the concept of self needs to be more accurately defined.

[Invincible Summer]

As has been pointed out, not all communists are athiests. As an agnostic, I personally overcome the fear of death by doing what I believe to be "ethically/morally correct" in life, which is communism.

And atheists differ from this... how?


i assume that the people who claim not to fear death also don't look when they cross the road?
If I die instantly, I wouldn't care. I just wouldn't want to end up as a quadriplegic that needs to be fed with a tube.

Just because some of us do not necessarily quiver and shake at the thought of not existing does not mean we take no cautions to live as long as we can.

It's like when people assume "anarchy is all about liberation? that means chaos!" Just because there are no overt leaders doesn't mean you don't take precautions to make sure people don't just kill each other.


As far fearing death and considering the posibility of prolonging human life we have to ask, what ends when we die? What exactly do we want to prolong? I'm not necessarily challenging the transhumnists ideas, but the issue is more complicated than "wouldn't it be cool if we could live forever?"


Yes it is more complicated than that, and I think most transhumanists recognize this.

What do transhumanists want to prolong? The "ability" to experience the world. It's not just the act of being conscious itself, as I wouldn't want to be trapped in my body without being able to do anything; rather, it is the act of interacting with nature and the social world in various ways that makes life enjoyable. Therefore, I think many transhumanists would agree that extension of life & health in order to explore meanings within different societal contexts (as time progresses) is worth pursuing.



What is the "self" that we are afraid of losing?
The aggregation of all our life experiences, and the potential to be immersed in new experiences.

[ReDSC]

[QUOTE=Helios+;1772180]And atheists differ from this... how?

Most athiests probably don't differ from that. I don't believe in diety in the traditional sense, but I think there might be something out there.

[Dr Mindbender]

one only has to observe the vast variety of lifespans to be found in nature, from the ephemeral E. Coli to the millennial stretches that trees can survive.

I would've said giant tortoises, personally.

[revolution inaction]

And atheists differ from this... how?


If I die instantly, I wouldn't care. I just wouldn't want to end up as a quadriplegic that needs to be fed with a tube.

Just because some of us do not necessarily quiver and shake at the thought of not existing does not mean we take no cautions to live as long as we can.


having a fear of death doesn't mean someone will "quiver and shake at the thought" of it, thats a ridiculous exaggeration.
I'm just making hte point that being afraid of dieing isn't necessary a bad thing.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

stop being so sad and embrace the inevitable :)

Stop being so fatalistic! :D

[Mahatma Gandhi]

What's important is the FACT of death rather than the fear of death. The fact that death comes for all is enough to discourage people from thinking about social and political issues. All motivation is destroyed. That's why communism (or any materialist ideology, for that matter) has little appeal for the common man. Unfortunately, communists don't seem to realize this.

[9]

What's important is the FACT of death rather than the fear of death. The fact that death comes for all is enough to discourage people from thinking about social and political issues. All motivation is destroyed.

I always wondered why the human race never achieved anything. Now I understand.

[Revy]

What's important is the FACT of death rather than the fear of death. The fact that death comes for all is enough to discourage people from thinking about social and political issues. All motivation is destroyed. That's why communism (or any materialist ideology, for that matter) has little appeal for the common man. Unfortunately, communists don't seem to realize this.

Would you rather die a slave or live free? There is plenty of motivation to go around. The fact that we are naturally destined to grow old and die means nothing. Death is complete unconsciousness. According to the atheist view, there is no paradise awaiting us after we die. Therefore the motivation to make things better in the world is stronger.

Communism has little appeal for the common person because it is not properly understood. Most people nowadays think of communism as a brutal oppressive dictatorship.

[Mahatma Gandhi]

Would you rather die a slave or live free? There is plenty of motivation to go around. The fact that we are naturally destined to grow old and die means nothing. Death is complete unconsciousness. According to the atheist view, there is no paradise awaiting us after we die. Therefore the motivation to make things better in the world is stronger.

Communism has little appeal for the common person because it is not properly understood. Most people nowadays think of communism as a brutal oppressive dictatorship.

Let's say you only have a few days to live. Would you have any motivation at all---even to get out of bed? Forget about communism/capitalism debate for the time being, and think about it. I am just trying to understand how the inevitability of death could get us to make compromises.

[Comrade Anarchist]

Replace it with the fear that the totalitarian government will mismanage the economy and leave you with nothing like every poor sufferer of the regimes you all support.

[∞]

Replace it with the fear that the totalitarian government will mismanage the economy and leave you with nothing like every poor sufferer of the regimes you all support.

I don't think you know what Communism is....http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left_communism

[deLarge]

The disciples said to Jesus, "Tell us, how will our end come?"
Jesus said, "Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is.
Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."
- Gospel of Thomas

[IllicitPopsicle]

Watch Carl Sagan's Cosmos.

[Invincible Summer]

Replace it with the fear that the totalitarian government will mismanage the economy and leave you with nothing like every poor sufferer of the regimes you all support.

Interesting that you mention that, because it was the shift to capitalism that really made everyone destitute.


I also don't see how the OP has anything to do with communism in particular. You could ask any atheist this question