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Che a chara
2nd June 2010, 22:29
If You're a Christian, Muslim or Jew - You are Wrong (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/cenk-uygur/if-youre-a-christian-musl_b_9349.html)

We live in a twisted world, where right is wrong and wrong reigns supreme. It is a chilling fact that most of the world's leaders believe in nonsensical fairytales about the nature of reality. They believe in Gods that do not exist, and religions that could not possibly be true. We are driven to war after war, violence on top of violence to appease madmen who believe in gory mythologies. These men are called Christians, Muslims and Jews.

Osama bin Laden is insane. He believes God whispered in the ear of Mohammed 1,400 years ago about how he should conquer Arabia. Mohammed was a pure charlatan -- and a good one at that. He makes present religious frauds like Pat Robertson look like amateurs.

He said God told him to have sex with as many of the women he met as possible. I'm sorry, I meant to say "take them as wives." God told him to kill all other tribes that stood in his way or that would not placate him with assurances of loyalty or bribes. God told him, conveniently, that everyone should follow him and never question a word he said.

He sold this bag of goods to the blithering idiots who lived in the Arabian Peninsula at the time. If that weren't shockingly stupid enough, over a billion people continue to believe the convenient lies that Mohammed told all that time ago -- to this very day.

We live in a world full of insane people. Sanity is an island battered in an ocean of frothing delusion. The people who believe in science are the minority. The people who believe in bloody fairytales are the overwhelming majority.

George W. Bush is the most powerful man alive. He is a class A imbecile. He is far less intelligent than the average Christian. But like most of the others, he believes Jesus died for his sins. That idea is so perverse and devoid of logic it should shock the conscience. Instead, it gets him elected, and earns him the reverence of a great percentage of America. America! The most advanced country in the world -- run by a bunch of villagers who still believe Santa Claus is going to save them.

There is no damn Easter Bunny. There is no Jesus waiting to return. Moses never even existed. These were all convenient lies from the men of those times to gain power. Their actions were rational -- they wanted to deceive their brethren so that they could amass power. I get their motivations. But I cannot, for the life of me, understand our motivations, thousands of years later, still following the conmen of yesteryear into our gory, bloody, violent end.

Jesus is said to have said on the cross, "My God, My God, why have you forsaken me?" Because Jesus was insane and the God he thought would rescue him did not exist. And he died on that cross like a fool. He fancied himself the son of God and he could barely convince twelve men to follow him at a time when the world was full of superstition.

Excellent marketing by some of his followers would later rescue his botched effort. How many people saw his miracles? One? Twelve? Eighty? Why didn't he show the whole world? Not because this is some giant pop quiz by God to test us -- but because he did not perform any miracles!

Even his apostles can't agree on what miracles he supposedly carried out or when he carried them out. Or whether he returned after death or he didn't. Whether they saw him in person or just as a vision. Rational human beings shouldn't believe this kind of nonsense. Yet most of the world does.

If a man today killed his only son to show how much he loved other people, he would be considered a madman, locked in jail and earn society's contempt. Yet we think this is some sort of noble act by our Father in Heaven.

In Heaven? What, with the harps and the winged angels and the 72 virgins? My God, how stupid do you have to be to believe that?

I know most of you don't actually read your religious texts, and when you do, you assiduously try to avoid the parts that make no sense whatsoever or hide underneath the comforting grasp of your religious leaders who have concocted a bunch of circular logic (a crime to even use that word in regards to Christianity, Islam or Judaism) to shield you from the obvious folly of the written text.

So, I'm not calling you stupid if you haven't really read the material. And I know how powerful brainwashing is. We all received it when we were young and it is exceedingly difficult to break its grasp. But people dance around the issue out of politeness because they don't want to call you what you are -- ignorant.

There are a lot of people I love dearly and respect wholeheartedly who believe in religion. I hate to do this to them. But we have killed far too many people, wasted far too much time on this nonsense for us to keep going in this direction for fear of offense.

Jesus was a lunatic. God is not coming to your rescue. He hasn't come to anyone's rescue in thousands of years, including Jesus. Mohammed was a power hungry, scam artist and ruthless conqueror. Moses and Abraham were figments of the imagination of some long dead rabbi. He would probably laugh his ass off at all of you who still believe the fairytales he made up thousands of years ago. He probably wouldn't even believe it if you told him.

Did I mention Judaism? The chosen people? Come on, get off it. People walk around in clothes from 18th century Russia, thinking they have been chosen by God when they look like a bunch of jackasses. I'm tired of all the deaths because we did not want to give offense. Orthodox Jews are wrong and ridiculous.

As are the orthodox and fundamentalists of all of the religions. It says in the Bible that it is an abomination to wear clothes made of two different cloths or to eat shellfish. If you think God will hate you because you mixed wool and linen or because you ate some shrimp, you are insane.

How long are we going to dance around the 800-pound gorilla in the room? The world is run by madmen. It's not just Bush and bin Laden. It is the leader of all of the countries in the Middle East, almost all of the Americas and most of the rest of the world.

Have I offended you? That's too bad. Stop killing each other in the name of false and ridiculous Gods and I will stop ridiculing you. Trust me, your offense is much worse than mine.

Right now as you read this, there are ignorant, hateful Muslims teaching other ignorant Muslims how to put on a suicide belt. There are orthodox Jews telling other Jews how they must never leave their "holy land" no matter what the consequences are to other human beings. They assure their followers -- remember, they are not the chosen ones, we are. If we crush and oppress them, don't worry, God will excuse it, and even desires it, because He is on our side.

There are maniacal Christians who are praying for the end of time. Who are hoping that most of the world's population is wiped off the face of the Earth by their vengeful and murderous God. Whom they believe is, ironically, a loving God. Unless, of course, you make the fatal mistake of not kissing his ass and appeasing him, in which case he will slaughter you and condemn you to eternal torture. What kind of sick people believe this?

The kind who live next to you. The kind who voted for George Bush. The kind who send their religious leaders to the White House to argue against even-handedness in the Middle East because it would prevent their sick prophecy. The kind who have undue influence over how we use the greatest and most lethal army ever built by man.

If you don't want to be called ignorant or misinformed, then get informed. Learn the real nature of our universe and put aside old wives tales about resurrected Gods, omniscient prophets and a guy who could split the Red Sea but couldn't find where he's going in the desert for forty years.

It's the year 2005. Let's start acting like it.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/cenk-uygur/if-youre-a-christian-musl_b_9349.html

Che a chara
2nd June 2010, 22:32
The positives of religion shouldn't be diminished.

Without the 'safety' and other positive influences religion can have such as rehabilitation, how would one relate to having that positive part in their life when told that it is not acceptable ? should they just accept it ?

Invincible Summer
2nd June 2010, 22:50
I wish they spent more time lambasting Judaism.

Anyways, I don't understand your question... are you asking how people should deal with being told their beliefs are wrong?

The only benefit I can see from religious belief is the feeling of hope and meaning, albeit IMO an erroneous one.

Che a chara
4th June 2010, 12:56
I wish they spent more time lambasting Judaism.

Anyways, I don't understand your question... are you asking how people should deal with being told their beliefs are wrong?

The only benefit I can see from religious belief is the feeling of hope and meaning, albeit IMO an erroneous one.

Yeah well near enough. As you say, hope and meaning does has a positive effect.

Why do people want religion totally removed from society, when it can have these positive effects, especially as religion has been practised for so long now, how and why should others give up certain beliefs ? I definitely call for a complete separation of church/religion from state, but to be told that everything is total bullshit, even if there is no evidence and it may sound like a fairytale, why should the rehabilitating and comforting factors be taken out of someone's thought ?

A stupid example is in an episode of 'Malcolm in the Middle', the dad Hal believes in an afterlife and his wife Lois doesn't, leaving Hal pretty upset as he always thought that she along with him believed that they would end up together in an afterlife and it would be Heaven, giving them comfort and something to 'look forward to' and an appreciation of life. Anyways, at the end up Lois decides just for Hal's benefit that she does then believe in an afterlife and can't wait to 'meet up with him' 'afterwards', leaving him happy.

Another question in post-revolution, how should those who practice religion devoutly be approached to integrate into society more ? e.g., should it be imposed that Muslims who as part of their belief don't look directly or have a stare at the opposite sex, relinquish that part of Islam ? How should other faiths that preach these kind of 'unsociable' beliefs be approached as not to offend the person and religion ?

GreenCommunism
5th June 2010, 10:41
a socialist society can make non hateful ads campaign to get people to abandon religion but it shouldn't make religion illegal.

most of the positive part of religion are already taken now, they won't go away.

NGNM85
11th June 2010, 21:18
Yeah well near enough. As you say, hope and meaning does has a positive effect.

Why do people want religion totally removed from society, when it can have these positive effects, especially as religion has been practised for so long now, how and why should others give up certain beliefs ?

The important distinction is that very few of the positive attributes one can suggest automatically necessarily flow from religion, for the most part they aren't inherent features. Morality, charity, humility, honesty, etc., are in no way directly correlated with blind faith in an omnipotent creator. Whereas the negatives, bigotry, hatred, and violence, do come directly from religion, itself. The books are very clear about how hetetics, homosexuals, women's rights. Some of the largest humnan rights groups are secular, not so for aspiring martyrs or abortion clinic bombers.


I definitely call for a complete separation of church/religion from state, but to be told that everything is total bullshit, even if there is no evidence and it may sound like a fairytale, why should the rehabilitating and comforting factors be taken out of someone's thought ?

I'm not advocating we harass little old ladies, and tell all the children there is no Santa. However, even if we disregard all the awful things that religion inspires, the fact that it is fundamentally illogical, and antithetical to rational thought, is reason enough to do away with it.



Another question in post-revolution, how should those who practice religion devoutly be approached to integrate into society more ? e.g., should it be imposed that Muslims who as part of their belief don't look directly or have a stare at the opposite sex, relinquish that part of Islam ? How should other faiths that preach these kind of 'unsociable' beliefs be approached as not to offend the person and religion ?

First of all I'm highly skeptical about the potential for success of violent revolution. However... I would say that in an Anarchist society, religion would not be outlawed. However, I wouldn't think there would be many adherents. I think the biggest antidote to religion is education. In the West, religion is really losing ground on a lot of fronts. The US is an exception, with our fascist evangelical mafia, however, their biggest strongholds are among the poor, working class, and where there is no secular education.

As for practicing beliefs, I say it should be allowed, as long as it doesn't infringe on the rights of others. If they don't believe they should look at women, that's fine, but if they want to force women to wear them, that's crossing the line. If a woman wants to wear it, that's her deal, fine.

What we need, in addition to education, is new rules of conversation. Religion has long been completely untouchable, impossible to question or criticize. We need to realize this is absurd. In no other sphere, music, science, politics, sports, etc., do we simply accept what people say, unquestioningly. If one applies the arguments we hear from religious people in any other context they sound asinine. Consider these examples;

The Red Sox are the greatest baseball team because I feel an inexplicable sense in my very soul that this is true.
Al Gore should be president because a book written over 1,000 years ago said so.
I believe black holes emit radiation because I wouldn't want to live in a world where black holes didn't emit radiation.

We would dismiss these statements, immediately. There's no reason why religion should be any different. Once one starts probing below the surface, it doesn't hold up very long. The dyed-in-the-wool fanatics will never change, but, thankfully, they are a smaller percentage of the population.