How were the Republicans organized during Spain Civil War?

[Catillina]

How was the militair structure? While it's clear how it was by the fascist, well structured an so on, but how were the leftist organized? There surely had to be a commander in chief, but such a structure is in opposition to leftist ideologie(espacially to Anarchist, not?)
Well its clear that the militair had to be organized, so how was it during Spain Civil War?

[Old Man Diogenes]

How was the militair structure? While it's clear how it was by the fascist, well structured an so on, but how were the leftist organized? There surely had to be a commander in chief, but such a structure is in opposition to leftist ideologie(espacially to Anarchist, not?)
Well its clear that the militair had to be organized, so how was it during Spain Civil War?

If you've ever read George Orwell's Homage to Catalonia (which I recommend you do if you want to find out more) he joined the International Brigades and I believe he was incorporated into the POUM (Workers' Party of Marxist Unification), he talks about the organization being on elected and recallable (I think :confused:, I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong, it's been nearly a year since I read it) army leaders, still thought of as comrades but there to take charge in a battle situation. Like I said my knowledge is a bit patchy I'll have to give it another read, no doubt some of my other comrades will fill you in.

[FriendlyLocalViking]

"How were the Republicans organised during the Spanish Civil War?"

Poorly.

[Black Sheep]

Read Anthony Beevor - the spanish civil war.
Something he mentions which shook me, is that soldiers were so non-disciplined, that they would leave the frontline to go home to eat.Simple as that . Lol.

[FriendlyLocalViking]

Read Anthony Beevor - the spanish civil war.
Something he mentions which shook me, is that soldiers were so non-disciplined, that they would leave the frontline to go home to eat.Simple as that . Lol.

The Viking preferred thebook "Comintern army". Also, I read a great book about the Mackenzie-Papineau Brigade (Canadian contribution to the IB)called... er "The Mackenzie-Papineau Brigade". Oh so creative title aside, it was a very well-done book.

[syndicat]

initially there were a variety of union and party militias. the largest was the CNT (anarcho-syndicalist) union militia. this was directed by a National Defense Committee of the union federation. There were elected chief delegates (the top officer) for each "column" (a division or regiment sized group) and elected "war committee", made up delegates from the various companies.

but the main problem with the militias were that they were often poorly trained and the separate parties and unions were jealous of retaining control so there was lack of coordination.

in the summer of 1936 there was then a fight over how to improve the situation. the Communists proposed rebuilding a conventional hierarchical army with officers with special privileges appointed from above, and monitored by "political commissars".

the anarcho-syndicalists proposed a unified militia with a unified command, but controlled by the two union federations, not the old Republican state and the party leaders. they proposed a training academy to train officers to be accountable as well as to have technical knowledge.

the Communists won out in this debate. so there was then a Popular Army organized in conventional hierarchical manner with various generals over the various army corps and a general staff, but this under the party leaders in the government.

[x359594]

If you've ever read George Orwell's Homage to Catalonia (which I recommend you do if you want to find out more) he joined the International Brigades and I believe he was incorporated into the POUM (Workers' Party of Marxist Unification)...

I think your memory of this is a little hazy.

Orwell arrived in Spain with press credentials from the Independent Labour Party and joined the POUM militia. While serving in the militia he applied to join the International Brigades but never transferred from the POUM. The May Days had intervened Orwell didn't follow up on the transfer application because of the Communist led suppression of the POUM. Finally he was wounded, and as soon as he was discharged from the hospital he made an attempt to discover the whereabouts of his friend Georges Kopp who'd been placed under arrest. Orwell learned that he was on an arrest list and left Spain with his wife in June 1937. In short, he never served with the International Brigades.

[McCroskey]

Catilina, you have to bear in mind that Spanish civi war was very complex. It was not just a war between fascists and democrats. Initially, the national side was not even fascist (they surpressed the fascist party, Falange, and later they appropiated it), they were merely trying to restore the monarchy, or simply throw the leftist popular front out of goverment, but they received support of Hitler and Mussolini, who wanted a military ally in Spain, and soon the nationalists saw a fascist military regime as their best option. On the republican side, the attack on the republic was initially surpressed by organised workers militias, leaded by the CNT union (arnarchists by name, left communists in practice), and a number of marxist groups. The coup d`etat was not sudden, there were signs of it, and they could organise the resistance. They staged a workers and peasants` revolution in catalonia and aragon, and because of their power, they controlled those areas. But they decided to cooperate with the goverment due to the need to win the war against fascism, and the fact that no foreign powers were giving the republic any support (they were more scared of a socialist revolution than of fascism). This was the time when western powers were stuck in the "appeasement of fascism" doctrine, rather than fighting against it.
The only powers giving help to the republic were Mexico and the USSR, but because Mexico was too far away, the USSR was the main supporter. Stalin didn´t want a social revolution in Spain, he wanted a burguoise democracy, so the USSR infiltrated the republican goverment, helping the PSUC and the PCE, the main communist parties, to gain power in the republican goverment. This was also the time of stalinist purges, so they managed to crush the revolution by accusing anyone suspected of being a revolutionary of "trotskysm". This is the time when workers´ militias were disbanded and the soldiers incorporated in the Popular Army, controlled by Moscow and focused in preventing revolution, and just securing a friendly capitalist democracy in Spain as opposed to Franco´s fascism.
It is not true what was said of the disorganisation of the workers´militias. They were extremely commited soldiers who were motivated by a political conviction, and wherever they went, they spread revolution, organising collectivisation of the land. Their inneficiency was due to the fact that they were not regular soldiers, they were normal people with perhaps a week or two of instruction. It is true that they were organised in socialist fashion, but this doesn´t seem to be the reason for their inefficiency (they managed to defend half of Spain before Stalin started to kill them and arresting their families back in their homes). The stalinists accused them of being in fascist´s pay (the usual accusation against every dissident, alongside "trotskyst"). The organisation of the workers´militias was based on egalitarian principles. Officers drew the same pay as enlisted men (basically everyone was given the same money), and were elected democratically basing on their military skills. Orders were followed militarly, but could be criticised and talked about with the officers (not in the battlefield, of course)

To sum up, there were two civil wars in Spain: The fight against fascism, and the fight within the republican side between revolutionaries (CNT-POUM, basically) and the communist anti-revolution goverment, infiltrated by the KGB, and focused on winning the war and secure a capitalist democracy who would have been the USSR´s main ally in the Mediterranean, if anything because of the debt that the Republic incurred with Moscow, who would not give support if they didn´t stop any revolutionary activities.

Hope it helps.:blink:

[Catillina]

The only powers giving help to the republic were Mexico and the USSR, but because Mexico was too far away, the USSR was the main supporter. Stalin didn´t want a social revolution in Spain, he wanted a burguoise democracy, so the USSR infiltrated the republican goverment, helping the PSUC and the PCE, the main communist parties, to gain power in the republican goverment. This was also the time of stalinist purges, so they managed to crush the revolution by accusing anyone suspected of being a revolutionary of "trotskysm". This is the time when workers´ militias were disbanded and the soldiers incorporated in the Popular Army, controlled by Moscow and focused in preventing revolution, and just securing a friendly capitalist democracy in Spain as opposed to Franco´s fascism.


Well first of, thank you for your answer.

But I don't realy get it why Stalin wanted a burguoise democracy, I mean he wanted to develop the communism in russia, and not a worldwide revolution, but he shouldnt have any objections to another communist country, if the chance was present.

Thank you comrade

[syndicat]

Stalin didn´t want a social revolution in Spain, he wanted a burguoise democracy, so the USSR infiltrated the republican goverment, helping the PSUC and the PCE, the main communist parties, to gain power in the republican goverment. This was also the time of stalinist purges, so they managed to crush the revolution by accusing anyone suspected of being a revolutionary of "trotskysm". This is the time when workers´ militias were disbanded and the soldiers incorporated in the Popular Army, controlled by Moscow and focused in preventing revolution, and just securing a friendly capitalist democracy in Spain as opposed to Franco´s fascism.


This is not correct. As documents in "Spain Betrayed" show, the position of the Communist International at the beginning of the civil war was a two-stage revolution. They did in fact intend to establish their brand of "socialism" in Spain, that is, a one-party dictatorship presiding over a nationalized economy, what I would call a bureaucratic class dictatorship. But they were in no position to do this in July of 1936 when the Spanish CP was small, with about 40,000 members and only a small amount of support in the UGT labor union.

The "civil war" was in fact a revolutionary class war. In reaction to the fascist military uprising, the workers seized most of Spain's economy. They expropriated 14 million acres of farm land and over 18,000 companies. So the capitalist class had been largely expropriated. There were some firms where a more limited "worker control"....union veto on management...still existed but this was in a minority of cases. The workers set up organizations of workers management in the various expropriated industries...textile factories, metal-working and chemical factories (many of which were converted to military production for the militia), dairies, hospitals and health care, public utilities, transportation, and on and on.

The two-stage strategy of the Communists was to first gain control of the officer corps of a rebuilt hierarchical army and police and then use that to gain control of the state, and nationalize the economy under state management. This put them at odds with the revolutionary mass union organizations. Most of the members of the Communist Party were recruited from the middle classes. Nationalizing the economy with a managerial class in control was in the interests of the middle classes as it would preserve their privileged position in Spanish society.

Thus the aim of the Communists was not a "capitalist democracy" even tho their campaign to rebuild the state in 1936 was publically argued for as a "defense of the democratic republic."

The Falange was not the only fascist organization. The traditionalist right in Spain had evolved in a clerical-fascist direction in the '30s. When the fascist army took a town, they would set up a committee. This committee would include an army officer, a priest, a member of the Falange, a big landowner. And they would conduct a "purge" of the population. They would use the lists of "subversives" collected by the police over the years to round up radicals from the unions, and they would execute them and bury them in mass graves. It is estimated that 150,000 were murdered this way.

[Fietsketting]

To sum up, there were two civil wars in Spain: The fight against fascism, and the fight within the republican side between revolutionaries (CNT-POUM, basically) and the communist anti-revolution goverment, infiltrated by the KGB, and focused on winning the war and secure a capitalist democracy who would have been the USSR´s main ally in the Mediterranean, if anything because of the debt that the Republic incurred with Moscow, who would not give support if they didn´t stop any revolutionary activities.

Hope it helps.:blink:

Infiltrated is perhaps not the correct phrase in this case. Willingly let the NKVD take over. Communist figures like Vittorio Vidali, Iosif Grigulevich and, above all, Alexander Orlov led secret operations, that included murders like those of Andreu Nin and José Robles.

And ofcourse the whole Moscow Gold issues!

[McCroskey]

This is not correct. As documents in "Spain Betrayed" show, the position of the Communist International at the beginning of the civil war was a two-stage revolution. They did in fact intend to establish their brand of "socialism" in Spain, that is, a one-party dictatorship presiding over a nationalized economy, what I would call a bureaucratic class dictatorship. But they were in no position to do this in July of 1936 when the Spanish CP was small, with about 40,000 members and only a small amount of support in the UGT labor union.

The "civil war" was in fact a revolutionary class war. In reaction to the fascist military uprising, the workers seized most of Spain's economy. They expropriated 14 million acres of farm land and over 18,000 companies. So the capitalist class had been largely expropriated. There were some firms where a more limited "worker control"....union veto on management...still existed but this was in a minority of cases. The workers set up organizations of workers management in the various expropriated industries...textile factories, metal-working and chemical factories (many of which were converted to military production for the militia), dairies, hospitals and health care, public utilities, transportation, and on and on.

The two-stage strategy of the Communists was to first gain control of the officer corps of a rebuilt hierarchical army and police and then use that to gain control of the state, and nationalize the economy under state management. This put them at odds with the revolutionary mass union organizations. Most of the members of the Communist Party were recruited from the middle classes. Nationalizing the economy with a managerial class in control was in the interests of the middle classes as it would preserve their privileged position in Spanish society.

Thus the aim of the Communists was not a "capitalist democracy" even tho their campaign to rebuild the state in 1936 was publically argued for as a "defense of the democratic republic."

The Falange was not the only fascist organization. The traditionalist right in Spain had evolved in a clerical-fascist direction in the '30s. When the fascist army took a town, they would set up a committee. This committee would include an army officer, a priest, a member of the Falange, a big landowner. And they would conduct a "purge" of the population. They would use the lists of "subversives" collected by the police over the years to round up radicals from the unions, and they would execute them and bury them in mass graves. It is estimated that 150,000 were murdered this way.

Your explanation is totally accurate, but then I was just trying to explain to Catillina that the Spanish civil war was more complex than a democracy-fascism conflict.
Then again, the USSR made a condition for their support the punishment of any revolutionary movement in republican spain, and the only possible outcome for them was the burguois republic, supported by the middle classes and anti-fascist landowners and capitalists. Spain was a very important potential strategic ally, and revolution in Spain was too democratic to support the Stalinist USSR, perhaps. Stalin was only interested in exporting the revoution in soviet terms, and with soviet conditions, to countries they could control militarilly. Outside that scope, he was interested in friendy capitalist economies who would trade with them, and open markets to soviet goods. If Spain managed to carry out a social revolution and workers took control of the economy, that open market would be lost, as obviously the workers in Spain would plan their economy, as opposed to having to rely on capitalist trading, and that would close an important market to soviet exports. Colectivisation of land, which involved a production increase and a just distribution of food and services to peasants and workers, was crushed and substituted with the USSR communist cooperatives, which brought back the same wage labour-capital relationship as in capitalists societies, but, nominally, from "nationalised" and "workers" enterprises. The USSR´s aim was to crush a workers´revolution in Spain, that they would not have under their control and they would close a market for them.

In Barcelona alone, thousands of revolutionaries were tortured, killed, and their families imprisoned by the NKVD or whatever it was called in those days, which had infiltrated in the police, the military, the press and everywhere. They were accused of being in fascist pay, of being trotskists, of being whatever. Trotsky was actually murdered by a PSUC activist, such was the influence of Stalinist USSR on the Spanish communists parties.

So, Catillina, you have to bear in mind that Stalin was more worried about opening markets for soviet exports than about real revolution. And that is why he NEVER helped the Spanish republic. He SOLD his help at a very high price: The reserves of gold of the Bank of Spain, and the assurance that the republican goverment would follow his guidelines (crushing of any revolutionary movement, and preferential trading with the USSR).

[x359594]

Let's not forget that the Spanish Republic was defeated by the combined efforts of Nazi Germany, fascist Italy and the Franco junta with considerable aid from the bourgeois democracies in the form of their hypocritical Non-Intervention Agreement that allowed aid to flow to the Nationalists by turning a blind eye to arms and materiel deliveries from various sources within the capitalist world while rigorously enforcing an embargo against the Republic.

The repression of the revolution and the non-Communist left was carried out by the SIM (Republican security forces) as much as by NKVD cadres. Indeed, there was some resistance to holding Moscow Trial-like tribunals.

Certainly the policies of the USSR toward the Republic were harmful to the war effort, but the cause of ultimate defeat was not Stalin's intervention.

[McCroskey]

Certainly the policies of the USSR toward the Republic were harmful to the war effort, but the cause of ultimate defeat was not Stalin's intervention.

Of course it wasn´t. The cause of defeat was the embargo imposed by the western capitalist democracies to the Republic goverment, under the excuse of "non-intervention". At that stage they were still trying to sweet talk the european fascisms and to negotiate with them, because fascism wasn´t the devil yet for them. A romantic and patriotic system based on repression of the working class was more appealing than a social revolution to the capitalist goverments. But the fact that Stalin forced the republic goverment to repress the revolutionaries had the effect of diverting thousands of fighting troops to this purpose, and the neutralisation of thousands of anti-fascist militias in the front of Aragon, by witholding weapons and other fighting material. The repression was focused on the POUM, due to Stalin´s obsession to surpress trotskism (although the POUM and its leader, Nin, had broken with Trotsky even before the war). The events of May 1937 in Barcelona had a huge impact in the defence of Aragon, as the fight between revolutionaries and the communist party goverment meant that a single policeman in Barcelona was far better equipped and armed than twenty of the guys fighting in the front against the fascists. Stalin´s instructions of repression of revolutionaries meant that the weapons the USSR was supplying were used mainly for that purpose, and to arm the new "popular army", starving the Aragon front of fighting power.
That´s the point when Stalin jeopardised the war effort, but I agree with you that if the Republican goverment had had any help and supplies from the other western democracies, they would not have been forced to accept USSR conditions in exchange for help. The USSR left the Spanish Republic bankrupt, as they had to pay with the bank of spain gold reserves, and then made sure that even if another country decided to support Spain, they wouldn´t be able to buy that help, relying in Russian help and having to accept their conditions.
It was shocking how the western "democracies" failed to help a legitimate elected goverment defend themselves against a coup d´etat by a military junta. Apparently they only intervene if the coup d´etat is staged by revolutionary forces, other than that... It´s really shocking. Many old Spaniards still feel betrayed by the rest of Europe.

A very interesting documentary on the POUM and the USSR repression of revolutionaries in the Spanish civil war is "Operació Nikolai", about the POUM leader assassination. The only videos that I could find in youtube or other sites of this documentary are in Catalan, sometimes dubbed or subtitled in Spanish. George Orwell´s "Homage to Catalonia" also talks about this, as he was fighting in the POUM militia (although he wasn´t a member of the POUM), and the movie based on that book, "Land and Freedom" is also very accurate.

[syndicat]

when you say it was non-intervention pact that doomed the Spanish revolution, you're saying, in effect, that it was the massive military aid of the fascist powers, mainly Hitler and Mussolini, that sealed their fate.

It is clear that Hitler and Mussolini provided more military aid than the Republic was able to obtain on the world market (which included their purchases from the USSR).

Nonetheless, I'm not so sure defeat was so certain from this. Antony Beevor's "The Battle for Spain" goes into a lot of the reasons for the destruction of the Republican army. After the Communists gained control of the army, they focused on mass assaults based on outdated French army manuals. These assaults were motivated for propaganda reasons. To try to win some land and claim this showed a momentum to victory. But these assaults lost vast numbers of human lives and materiel.

Beevor suggests that a strategy based on harassing probes, guerrilla tactics behind fascist lines in some areas (such as Andalucia), and a hard defense could have prolonged the war to the beginning of World War 2, when the stance of the Allies towards giving aid would be likely to change. After all, they provided aid to Stalin.

Also, Communist policy in the running of the army, and in nationalizing worker managed industries, was highly sectarian and damaging to morale. Orwell points to loss of morale as an important contributing factor to defeat.

Also, sending 70 percent of the gold to Russia destroyed the value of the Spanish currency when word got out...it lost 50 percent of value. this made it much harder to obtain needed supplies. at the outset of the revolution the CNT unions in Catalonia converted more than 200 metal and chemical plants to war production. but they lacked funds to develop an effective weapons industry that could produce things like tanks and aircraft. early on the interest of Stalin in getting his hands on the gold, and avoiding funds going to the anarchists, played a role in this. Before the war Spain did have an aircraft and motor vehicle industry. In particular Hispano-Suiza made high quality 12 cylinder aircraft engines at its plant in Guadalajara. This could have provided a basis for building a native Spanish fighter, but this was not developed til too late in the war.

[McCroskey]

when you say it was non-intervention pact that doomed the Spanish revolution, you're saying, in effect, that it was the massive military aid of the fascist powers, mainly Hitler and Mussolini, that sealed their fate.

It is clear that Hitler and Mussolini provided more military aid than the Republic was able to obtain on the world market (which included their purchases from the USSR).


That´s exactly what I meant. I believe it was only Mexico and the USSR that sold weapons to the Republic.

As per the staging of big battles for propaganda reasons, the republic also were lucky of having the nationalist side divided as well. Franco diverted to Toledo on his way up to Madrid so he could stage a big victory by liberating the Alcazar and conquering the city, thus improving greatly his profile in the rebel army, and being able to appoint himself as the big and only commander of the national side, paving the way for his appointment as head of the state in the event of a nationalist victory. That gave the troops defending Madrid breathing space to extend the defence of the city. If Franco had arrived to Madrid from the south without diverting, they would have been crushed, and the war lost much earlier. The two big figureheads of the Spanish civil war, Franco and Stalin, were very interested in propaganda, at the expense of the population, who died in their thousands.

[theblackmask]

Read Anthony Beevor - the spanish civil war.
Something he mentions which shook me, is that soldiers were so non-disciplined, that they would leave the frontline to go home to eat.Simple as that . Lol.

Nope, it doesn't take discipline to work a shift at a factory, then take the tram to the front and spend the rest of the day fighting.

[Ocean Seal]

Its very unfortunate that the anarchist army couldn't be more "authoritarian" for just a little while. Up until the defeat of fascism.

[syndicat]

actually anarchist officers like Mera and Durruti were pretty stern about discipline. that wasn't really the issue.

problems had more to do with the Communists weaseling their way into control of the army, seizing the gold to send to Moscow, denying the anarchist war industries and columns resources and so on.

[x359594]

when you say it was non-intervention pact that doomed the Spanish revolution, you're saying, in effect, that it was the massive military aid of the fascist powers, mainly Hitler and Mussolini, that sealed their fate...It is clear that Hitler and Mussolini provided more military aid than the Republic was able to obtain on the world market (which included their purchases from the USSR)...sending 70 percent of the gold to Russia destroyed the value of the Spanish currency when word got out...it lost 50 percent of value.

The arms that the Republic was able to buy on the world (black) market were overpriced and often defective.

In spite of the Non-Intervention Agreement the capitalist democracies turned a blind eye to aid from their respective business enterprises when it came to selling to Franco; for example, the pro-Nazi president of the Texaco Oil Company, Thorkield Rieber, risked 6 million dollars by supplying the Nationalists with a substantial proportion of their oil needs on credit. He was penalized by a small fine. In contrast, the Glenn A. Martin Aircraft Corporation and Robert Cuse, a businessman who specialized in aircraft parts, were refused export licenses for long standing orders to the Republic.

So not only was the Republic denied aid by the bourgeois governments, these same governments allowed aid from their business classes to flow to Franco along with the flagrant violators Nazi Germany and Fascist Italy. There were powerful pro-fascist lobbies in all the so-called democracies that made it politically difficult to arm the Republic even if the leadership wanted to, as seems to be the case with Roosevelt's administration.

[syndicat]

yes and they were cheated in their arms deals with USSR as well.

but they should have expected this situation. boss classes are not going to support a proletarian revolution.

this is why the Popular Front strategy of the Communists was naive. this was pointed out by the anarchist youth organization and by some in the radical wing of CNT like Durruti.

in the case of the Roosevelt administration, they were deterred from allowing arms sales to the Republic through the campaign of the Catholic church, financed by Joseph Kennedy (who made his millions in illegal liquor sales during prohibition).