Unrepentant Czech Communists might actually make a difference

[MarxSchmarx]

As much as they try to kick them while they're down, at least the English language press seems to bother to cover communist parties in Eastern Europe for once:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/29/world/europe/29czech.html?ref=europe

What do comrades in the Czech Republic make of all this chatter?

[Die Neue Zeit]

The Communists got 11.3 percent of the vote. Despite this being lower than four years ago, this feat in non-Russian Eastern Europe is impressive! :thumbup1:

[MarxSchmarx]

The Communists got 11.3 percent of the vote. Despite this being lower than four years ago, this feat in non-Russian Eastern Europe is impressive! :thumbup1:

Huh I hadn't checked the results, that's kinda respectable, tho I want to see what the break down is by age. Yeah, add to that that with the possible exception of Poland (and obviously E. Germany) they are most integrated into the EU.

[Dire Helix]

“We hate the Communists,” said Marek Prchal, 35, an advertising executive who helped create the video. “The Communists should have been banned a long time ago.” It`s too late, Marek. We now know your name and age. When the revolution happens, you`ll be among the first in line to be sent to the firing squad.


The Communists still extol Lenin and Marx, and advocate the redistribution of wealth and the country’s disengagement from NATO, making the party a potential spoiler for good relations with the rest of Europe and the United States.Oh, the horrorz.


Eager to keep the Communists out of power, the Social Democrats and Civic Democrats may come together in a grand coalition that could lead to gridlock, political experts here say.Why not assemble and dispatch Freikorps while we are at it?


Now seriously. More power to our Czech comrades.

[Die Neue Zeit]

Huh I hadn't checked the results, that's kinda respectable, tho I want to see what the break down is by age. Yeah, add to that that with the possible exception of Poland (and obviously E. Germany) they are most integrated into the EU.

I think the agreed breakdown is between pensioners and youth who haven't experienced "totalitarianism" but know full well the economic shit of the 1990s and beyond, unlike the stubborn age groups in between.

[GreenCommunism]

actually someone said the party is the least popular among the youth. its definitly not 'cool' among the young to be one. i don't know if it pisses off your parents :) but probably since at 18 you tend to respect your parents.

[Crux]

As much as they try to kick them while they're down, at least the English language press seems to bother to cover communist parties in Eastern Europe for once:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/29/world/europe/29czech.html?ref=europe

What do comrades in the Czech Republic make of all this chatter?
So lots of old people vote for the CP because they are nostalgic, and the young because they don't remember how bad it was? Am I the only one seeing the contradiction here.

In the Words of one of the leaders, obviously one of those on the left, of the Solidarity union in Poland:
"The worst thing about Communism is what comes afterwards."

So what is what way does the CP offer forward?

[Antifa94]

Hopefully, the party doesn't support a platform that produced the wonders of state capitalist Czechloslovakia(1946-1992) and are legitimately proletarian and democratic. They probably aren't.:(

[Sperm-Doll Setsuna]

Hopefully, the party doesn't support a platform that produced the wonders of state capitalist Czechloslovakia(1946-1992) and are legitimately proletarian and democratic. They probably aren't.:(

Oh? And what... "platform" was that... if anything it was mostly made-up ad-hoc as per Soviet requirements.

[Cooler Reds Will Prevail]

It`s too late, Marek. We now know your name and age. When the revolution happens, you`ll be among the first in line to be sent to the firing squad.

So we're doing firing squads again huh? Golly, that sounds neat. :rolleyes:

[Proletarian Ultra]

Damn. Communist vote held their own but didn't go up.

Winning coalition is right-wing as shit. TOP 09, who knocked the commies out of third place, organize street patrols to harrass junkies and homeless. And they're not even considered the furthest right.

Almost makes one reconsider the nasty things Engels said about the Czechs in 'Democratic Pan-Slavism'. :ohmy:

[Crux]

I would love to know the Czech section of CWI's position on this but unfortunately they don't seem to translate their articles into english very often, or to be precise, the last article on the international website was from 03, yet they keep writing on their own website. I mean, I have met some of them, at least two of them speaks alright english. They translate our articles into czech (although possibly not from english). And I see they have written a piece on the election so..uhm. Anybody feel like translating czech for me? http://www.levice.cz/

[Q]

I would love to know the Czech section of CWI's position on this but unfortunately they don't seem to translate their articles into english very often, or to be precise, the last article on the international website was from 03, yet they keep writing on their own website. I mean, I have met some of them, at least two of them speaks alright english. They translate our articles into czech (although possibly not from english). And I see they have written a piece on the election so..uhm. Anybody feel like translating czech for me? http://www.levice.cz/

Google Translate for a quick fix (http://translate.google.com/translate?js=y&prev=_t&hl=nl&ie=UTF-8&layout=1&eotf=1&u=http://www.levice.cz/&sl=cs&tl=en).

[Crux]

Google Translate for a quick fix (http://translate.google.com/translate?js=y&prev=_t&hl=nl&ie=UTF-8&layout=1&eotf=1&u=http://www.levice.cz/&sl=cs&tl=en).Just checked it out. It works relatively well. Here's the election article:


http://translate.google.se/translate?hl=sv&sl=cs&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.levice.cz%2Findex.php%3Foption% 3Dcom_content%26view%3Darticle%26id%3D32%3Avolby-2010-pipravme-se-na-boj-proti-krtm-po-volbach

Also why can't I copy-paste from google translate without getting both original and translation all mashed up?

[Q]

Also why can't I copy-paste from google translate without getting both original and translation all mashed up?
This appears to be a browser-related issue. Firefox has the issue you described, Chrome does not.

[Antifa94]

Young people who aren't leftist are soulless twats. No, I don't mean apathetic or ignorant youth, I mean young republicans and their ilk.

[Red Commissar]

KSCM has an interesting relation with the Czech government. On many occasions they have tried to bring up banning the KSCM because they say their practices violates the Czech constitution. From what I read their youth wing had been disbanded successfully by the government using that method.

And it's a sentiment that is not uncommon among the Czech populace. Like the rest of Eastern Europe, communism is not held in the highest regard.

Yet they hold. The commentary in the article argues, though indirectly, that this is a result of youth apathy and misguided nostalgia. Yet there's only so long that approach can hold and it seems they've been able to outlive that.

In the end their performance stayed the same. I think much of the people who disapproved of the government vented their frustration by voting for TOP, which had been formed last year.

[Nolan]

It`s too late, Marek. We now know your name and age. When the revolution happens, you`ll be among the first in line to be sent to the firing squad.


Hey we're supposed to keep it a surprise!

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

Despite this being lower than four years ago, this feat in non-Russian Eastern Europe is impressive!

Not that impressive. The "Communists" in Moldova won an absolute majority in the election of 2001 and a plurality in the election of 2005 and effectively administered the capitalist state during their time in power. Before and after, they helped administer the state along with the "opposition."

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

In the Words of one of the leaders, obviously one of those on the left, of the Solidarity union in Poland:
"The worst thing about Communism is what comes afterwards."

Writer #1: "Bring Back Communism!"

Writer #2: "We never had communism!"

Writer #3: "Then bring back whatever we had!

- Graffiti in Warsaw, Poland

[Yazman]

Young people who aren't leftist are soulless twats. No, I don't mean apathetic or ignorant youth, I mean young republicans and their ilk.

I'm not so sure about that. In my opinion apathetic people are the worst of the the two when it comes to being 'soulless', because young right-wingers, while they are right-wingers, still at least believe SOMETHING. It might be a horrible load of shit, but at least they're thinking about something (and can possibly be swayed).

[Sperm-Doll Setsuna]

Not that impressive. The "Communists" in Moldova won an absolute majority in the election of 2001 and a plurality in the election of 2005 and effectively administered the capitalist state during their time in power. Before and after, they helped administer the state along with the "opposition."

But the Communist Party of Moldova are not communist at all. I don't know exactly how Communist the Czech Communist Party is, but it's unlikely to be as far to the right as the Moldova party even if it adheres to some Eurocommunist nonsense.

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

But the Communist Party of Moldova are not communist at all.

Give that comrade a cigar!

Do you think the Czech party is the one true "party of real communism" in Eastern Europe? Or is it more likely that it's about the same as the Moldovan, Cypriot, Belarussian and Ukranian "Communists" currently assisting in the administration of capitalist states?

[Sam_b]

Allow me not to speak as a Czech citizen, but as someone who has spent a great deal of time in the Czech Republic (I'll be back this summer for dissertation research).

It's interesting some comrades talking about the CWI et al's position on this. Although important, we need to stress that the CWI has only a handful of members (less than a dozen if I remember correctly). As for ourselves, SocSol comrades (the IST in Czech Republic) can hardly boast any better. Not to say that what these guys say is not valuable - it is, but due to the relationship of the KSCM with wider Czech politics other leftist groups have remained tiny. Unlike the 'communist successor' parties, eg the Democatic Left Alliance in Poland or the MSZP in Hungary, there was never a move to a social-democratic position within the KSCM, yet has regained a consistent support and is the de facto 'leftist party' of Czech politics. Thus a lot of genuine revolutionaries try and practice some degree of entryism.

What the KSCM does these days is produce a rigorous social-democratic line masked around a level of nostalgia and hardline 'good old days' rhetoric, which is why a lot of leftists, like seen above, claim it to be a genuine revolutionary organisation. Due to the Ministry of Interior's absurd anti-communist position, the youth section of the party was dissolved for endorsing the idea of collectivising means of production a few years back - leading to the arguments that the party overtly cannot position itself in this way, yet there are sections of the organisation that hold these beliefs.

Surprisingly, its vote has held up in an election that was regarded by many as the CSSD's election to lose - I for one expected a drift to them away from the KSCM. The current situation is being called a 'shift to the right by the Czech public' but it isn't the case. As we can see, the right-wing parties and the CSSD all did about the same as each other - there was no overwhelming mandate for one party, and this reflects a rejection by the Czech working class of the mismanagement and corruption that has become a hallmark of Parlament and its mismanaging of a country which is starting to feel the recession breathing down its neck. It is still in 'good shape' compared to other countries of Central and Eastern Europe - surprisingly since 1989 and of course 1992 it has not had serious problems with unemployment or inflation on the level of Hungary and Poland, yet we are seeing an increase of job losses and cuts which come with the Schumpetarian ideology of the ODS governments. In this situation I think its credible that the leftist vote to an extent held up.

[Sam_b]

I hope the above post made sense, by the way. It's been a long day.

[Die Neue Zeit]

Thus a lot of genuine revolutionaries try and practice some degree of entryism.

What the KSCM does these days is produce a rigorous social-democratic line masked around a level of nostalgia and hardline 'good old days' rhetoric, which is why a lot of leftists, like seen above, claim it to be a genuine revolutionary organisation. Due to the Ministry of Interior's absurd anti-communist position, the youth section of the party was dissolved for endorsing the idea of collectivising means of production a few years back - leading to the arguments that the party overtly cannot position itself in this way, yet there are sections of the organisation that hold these beliefs.

In relation to Die Linke, is the KSCM to the left or to the right? I don't see them being as opportunist as, say, the Moldovan CP or the KPRF.

[Sam_b]

Thats a good question, and an interesting comparison. I would argue that both the KSCM and Die Linke occupy a huge space on the broader left spectrum which therefore leads to an encompassment of views, a delicate balance between factions and the electorate, and thus means that its policies are not particularly revolutionary - though they are a good starting point. Both, for example, seek to thwart the financial crisis through 'bailing the people not the bankers' - but perhaps the KSCM goes a bit further by calling for definite wages increases.

All in all, its difficult to say. Although I've had experiences with the KSCM through demos and activities with SocSol, apart from base positions I couldn't give you a definite answer. Its dificult anyway to scope the different actions within it and contrast that with national policy, but perhaps the CC are more moderate than some of their activists suggest. In no way, however, is the scope of difference larger than the factions and groupings within Die Linke, and probably for one important reason. Wheras Die Linke is an amalgamation on several levels of the broad and revolutionary left, the KSCM has remained a centralised and pretty unified party. Indeed it was the mid 1990s where several groups broke away from it.

Some point tomorrow I can try and translate some of their web posts if you would like. I don't think I have the patience with my rusty Czech at almost 3am ;)

EDIT - for the record, I agree with you that they are nowhere near as opportunist as the Moldovans et al.

[Sperm-Doll Setsuna]

Give that comrade a cigar!

Do you think the Czech party is the one true "party of real communism" in Eastern Europe? Or is it more likely that it's about the same as the Moldovan, Cypriot, Belarussian and Ukranian "Communists" currently assisting in the administration of capitalist states?

And what exactly is it you are basing these extrapolations on, that I would hold the Czech party in such high regard? I don't know all that much about all these parties, but generally most of them are social-democratic soft-left parties with vestiges of eurocommunist influences - however, the Moldova party can hardly even be considered vaguely social-democratic.

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

Left and right are wings of bourgeois politics. Class is what matters.

[Die Neue Zeit]

Um, working-class pensioners and working-class youth form the base of the KSCM's support. Ever heard the terms "bourgeois workers party" and "petit-bourgeois workers party"?

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

Yeah, I've heard of it. It's utter shite. A bulk of people that support the Democratic Party in the U.S. are workers, it doesn't make it a workers' party or any variation thereof.

There were workers in the NAZI party and the PNF. Were they "fascist workers parties?"

In order to imbue their class character, the working class must act independently, as a class.

[Dire Helix]

Speaking of Moldova, its president Mihai Ghimpu has recently proposed the banning of the Communist Party(despite it being the biggest in the country) and all communist symbols. Since his election a number of previously banned neo-nazi organizations have been legalized and there have been multiple attempts to dismantle the monuments commemorating the anti-fascist fighters.