Organizing against police violence

[Ele'ill]

If a city is having a problem with police killing- and harassing individuals- what are some creative and non-violent methods for dealing with it?

I'll theoretically suggest that 8 of the 10 killings in a two month time period are say- highly questionable with one being blatant murder.

Rather- how do we get our communities- that are untouched by the violence thus far- involved?

How do we slay rugged individualism that runs rampant in America and bring neighbors together? Neighborhoods?

I have some experience dealing with these issues on both coasts of the United States and am curious to see if something new is mentioned. I want success stories.

This is a thread on practice.

[Ele'ill]

I gave you an example of a career cop that went to prison for violating civil rights laws. Laws made and enforced by the very government you apparently want to eliminate.

You have to incorporate that reality into your anarchist worldview somehow.

Good luck.

I'm going to play moderator here and move this conversation into this thread to avoid jamming the g20 toronto thread with police specific issues.

My response to this is that police brutality and harassment is wide spread and the communities that the police are supposed to protect have no or very little control over any aspect of the police.

There are laws in place to protect against very obvious situations of corruption and civil rights violations- most of the specific cases of officer involved harassment or worse are handled 'internally' within the police department. This creates a problem as the communities effected by the acts cannot obtain quality information on what's being discussed. The cases are handled by cops.

If you have policy that is creating situations involving unnecessary killings, shootings, events of harassment or general annoyances that policy needs to be reviewed and the public needs to see what is happening.

To have a force 'serving the community' when the community has no control over it is absurd.

[Robert]

If this person was hurting people of a community I'm glad he was found and stopped. My position remains the same on police.

Incoherent. It was the cops who caught him. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

Since you're the moderator on this thread, I expect you to remain above the fray and not directly dispute a single word I say. I'll miss debating with you, but I know that your moderator duties trump all other imperatives.

[Ele'ill]

Incoherent. It was the cops who caught him. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

Consider a situation in which the same force that kills your family members are the ones stopping murderers. That's the situation. That doesn't legitimize their corrupt actions simply because a small part of their operation functions correctly.

Oh good cop so and so stopped a domestic violence situation then a week later gunned down a man with a razor who was cutting himself- from ten feet away with an assault rifle at an apartment complex.

I have a washing machine right now that washes but doesn't drain. Fuck that.



Since you're the moderator on this thread, I expect you to remain above the fray and not directly dispute a single word I say. I'll miss debating with you, but I know that your moderator duties trump all other imperatives.

I'm not moderating this thread, I created it as a place for everyone to post if they want. If someone replies to a comment I made I'm going to reply. It would also help if there were multiple people from both sides of the issue in here. Until then I will reply to you.

I generally don't reply in a lot of the threads I create.

[Robert]

To have a force 'serving the community' when the community has no control over it is absurd.

Why the sarcastic quotes? They do serve "the community", if not every rioting juvenile anarchist who wants to break every window on Main Street.

"No control"? None at all? Police chiefs serve at the pleasure of the mayor or city manager. The ELECTED mayor or city manager.

We need more voters and fewer rioters.

[Robert]

I'm not moderating this thread, I created it as a place for everyone to post if they want. If someone replies to a comment I made I'm going to reply. It would also help if there were multiple people from both sides of the issue in here. Until then I will reply to you.

I was just kidding you because of this:
I'm going to play moderator here and move this conversation into this thread to avoid jamming the g20 toronto thread with police specific issues.

[Robert]

It would also help if there were multiple people from both sides of the issue in here.If only. But there are not. They'd rather sit on the sidelines and admire us from afar because we are such great expostulators of our respective positions. Especially me. I mean you. ;)

[Ele'ill]

Why the sarcastic quotes? They do serve "the community", if not every rioting juvenile anarchist who wants to break every window on Main Street.


How can they serve a group of people when that group of people has no say on anything regarding them?

Most of the anarchists I've talked to don't see property destruction as a useful tactic. There are a handful that do.




"No control"? None at all? Police chiefs serve at the pleasure of the mayor or city manager. The ELECTED mayor or city manager.


Electing someone to appoint someone to appoint another someone to serve in a system already established that wasn't decided on by the community is more like it. Most elected officials don't do what they say they're going to.


We need more voters and fewer rioters.

We need more people educated on how little their vote actually matters. :)

[Robert]

Most of the anarchists I've talked to don't see property destruction as a useful tactic. There are a handful that do.

You mean you don't want me to stereotype anarchists? Okay.

[Ele'ill]

You mean you don't want me to stereotype anarchists? Okay.

I don't really mind. Some like to break shit without community support. They're hurting themselves and the chances of their ideas reaching the public. That's my opinion on it.

[Robert]

Some like to break shit without community support.

I can imagine.

You keep agreeing with me and you'll never get unrestricted.

[Ele'ill]

You just ninja edited that.

[Ele'ill]

I can imagine.

You keep agreeing with me and you'll never get unrestricted.

My main goal on here isn't to get unrestricted and I'm confused as to why we can't agree about certain things regarding the police, movement and the community. You have yet to back up 90% of your claims and instead have decided to accuse me of agreeing with you.


Those individuals that decided to use militant actions will be the subject of conversations in every spokes council and community meeting across this planet earth. Tactics are something that has been debated more than ever the past two or three years because it has drawn so much negative attention.

On one hand I don't disagree with the act on the other hand it isn't successful. The best way to stop ineffective autonomous actions is to discuss the practice within various circles- to stop the acts before the hammers come out of the bag so to speak.

[Ele'ill]

This thread isn't about anarchists and autonomous actions though, it's about police brutality.

[Robert]

You have yet to back up 90% of your claims and instead have decided to accuse me of agreeing with you.Oh, stop, I'm just joking about you agreeing!

I have given you examples of laws that protect you from abuse, laws that are enforced, and that send cops to prison where they are found to have violated your rights. You don't need "other cops" to investigate. Sue them yourself, directly, and ask for a jury of your peers (your "community") to decide who's right. If you can't accept their judgment either, then it is you who is out of step.

on edit:

You just ninja edited that.


Well, it wasn't malicious! I didn't realize you had posted already. What difference does it make anyway?

[Ele'ill]

I have given you examples of laws that protect you from abuse, laws that are enforced, and that send cops to prison where they are found to have violated your rights.

And in the event of a demonstration when the officers refuse to give their name or badge number?

When they take/break video recording devices that have captured their crimes?

What about fake charges filed against individuals?

What should be done about police departments that give a slap on the wrist to officers that have had multiple previous incidents of excessive force?





You don't need "other cops" to investigate.

The issue is that's how it works. There is no civil review board for community investigation. It's done through their 'internal affairs'. Most everything else is blocked by union contracts.


Sue them yourself, directly, and ask for a jury of your peers (your "community") to decide who's right. If you can't accept their judgment either, then it is you who is out of step.


Perhaps you'd agree that most people do not have the time/money to engage in this david vs goliath battle?

[Ele'ill]

http://news.infoshop.org/article.php?story=20100604044044156

[RGacky3]

I have given you examples of laws that protect you from abuse, laws that are enforced, and that send cops to prison where they are found to have violated your rights. You don't need "other cops" to investigate. Sue them yourself, directly, and ask for a jury of your peers (your "community") to decide who's right. If you can't accept their judgment either, then it is you who is out of step.

Yup, just like there are union busting laws.