Street war rages through Jamaica's capital city.

[Os Cangaceiros]

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article7137545.ece

Over 60 have been killed in the last few days of fighting.

[Comrade_Scott]

the military has done the correct thing. most of the "innocent civilians" are persons running behind the gunmen picking up the spent shells and guns that the gunmen have left behind. they have been doing that shit in tivoli for years and amnesty international will cry out that they had nothing to do with anything (apart from harbor a known criminal).

however nothing will change. in two weeks the garrisons will be back to normal and Jamaica will stay in the shit hole rut it has been in for the better part of 50 years.

[this is an invasion]

the military has done the correct thing. most of the "innocent civilians" are persons running behind the gunmen picking up the spent shells and guns that the gunmen have left behind. they have been doing that shit in tivoli for years and amnesty international will cry out that they had nothing to do with anything (apart from harbor a known criminal).

however nothing will change. in two weeks the garrisons will be back to normal and Jamaica will stay in the shit hole rut it has been in for the better part of 50 years.

Wow. The soldiers are doing the right by killing poor people? Sick dude.


fascist.

[Os Cangaceiros]

Yeah, I thought that that was a little suspect, as well...

[Robocommie]

the military has done the correct thing. most of the "innocent civilians" are persons running behind the gunmen picking up the spent shells and guns that the gunmen have left behind. they have been doing that shit in tivoli for years and amnesty international will cry out that they had nothing to do with anything (apart from harbor a known criminal).

however nothing will change. in two weeks the garrisons will be back to normal and Jamaica will stay in the shit hole rut it has been in for the better part of 50 years.

So, what is it about your politics that leads you to root for capitalist soldiers shooting people and make excuses about dead civilians?

[GreenCommunism]

most of the "innocent civilians" are persons running behind the gunmen picking up the spent shells and guns that the gunmen have left behind.

if i was poor i'll surely pick up those guns and sell them back.

[Comrade_Scott]

So, what is it about your politics that leads you to root for capitalist soldiers shooting people and make excuses about dead civilians?

not rooting for anyone, but the so called innocent civilians are not. they actively take part in shipping/selling/hoarding of guns and hiding known gunmen that kill children and women and i have no time for them. i understand your disgust with my statements but until you have lived in a garisson community and seen its workings how they hide aid and protect the child murderers and rapists i dont think you should talk.

the "civillians" were given 3 days to evacuate, buses were waiting to take them to safe places, instead they protested saying that they would die for dudus a man known as a rapist/murderer and drug/gun runner. they are far from innocent. the soldiers did use excess force but dont call them innocent civilians when they wash the blood soaked shirts of the murerers and hide the weapons in there houses.

i know it sounds hard and you can call me a fascist all you want but tivoli is a state within a state and a narco state at that. not arguing and not insulting but please do a bit of reasearch on the subject and you will see that what happend is the correct course of action. very sad very disgusting, welcome to the real jamaica a third world shit hole run by corrupt politicians and armed thugs and there communities.

[Crux]

not rooting for anyone, but the so called innocent civilians are not. they actively take part in shipping/selling/hoarding of guns and hiding known gunmen that kill children and women and i have no time for them. i understand your disgust with my statements but until you have lived in a garisson community and seen its workings how they hide aid and protect the child murderers and rapists i dont think you should talk.

the "civillians" were given 3 days to evacuate, buses were waiting to take them to safe places, instead they protested saying that they would die for dudus a man known as a rapist/murderer and drug/gun runner. they are far from innocent. the soldiers did use excess force but dont call them innocent civilians when they wash the blood soaked shirts of the murerers and hide the weapons in there houses.

i know it sounds hard and you can call me a fascist all you want but tivoli is a state within a state and a narco state at that. not arguing and not insulting but please do a bit of reasearch on the subject and you will see that what happend is the correct course of action. very sad very disgusting, welcome to the real jamaica a third world shit hole run by corrupt politicians and armed thugs and there communities.
Organized crime plays a reactionary role is a complicated matter but you surely have to realize state repression does not solve the underlying problem?

[Gecko]

not rooting for anyone, but the so called innocent civilians are not. they actively take part in shipping/selling/hoarding of guns and hiding known gunmen that kill children and women and i have no time for them. i understand your disgust with my statements but until you have lived in a garisson community and seen its workings how they hide aid and protect the child murderers and rapists i dont think you should talk.

the "civillians" were given 3 days to evacuate, buses were waiting to take them to safe places, instead they protested saying that they would die for dudus a man known as a rapist/murderer and drug/gun runner. they are far from innocent. the soldiers did use excess force but dont call them innocent civilians when they wash the blood soaked shirts of the murerers and hide the weapons in there houses.

i know it sounds hard and you can call me a fascist all you want but tivoli is a state within a state and a narco state at that. not arguing and not insulting but please do a bit of reasearch on the subject and you will see that what happend is the correct course of action. very sad very disgusting, welcome to the real jamaica a third world shit hole run by corrupt politicians and armed thugs and there communities.


I appreciate your honesty and sincerity..
unfortunately,desperation causes all kinds of bad shit to happen..
similar shit has happened here in the USA..that is in some of the big cities where gang crime runs rampant in the barrios and ghettos.many people there live in a virtual state of terror..people are scared to death and desperate for someone somewhere to help them get some relief from the scourge of drug dealers,violent gang killings and merciless street criminals..
it's the same old shit everywhere bro..the poor people become even more desperate and the capitalist rulers take advantage of that desperation to justify even more repression keeping their boots on the necks of the people and keep the people living in wretched poverty..
all the more reason we need a communist revolution.. the only hope..I will repeat that..THE ONLY HOPE..is the shining red star of hope,freedom and happiness..check it out brother..:thumbup1:

[Crux]

Armed forces storm impoverished Kingston neighbourhood

www.socialistworld.net, 03/06/2010
website of the committee for a workers' international, CWI
Working people need own movement to overcome gangsterism, state repression and capitalism
Dave Carr, from 3-9 June 2010 issue of The Socialist, newspaper of the Socialist Party (CWI England and Wales)
Tivoli Gardens in Kingston, Jamaica’s first public housing estate, resembled a war zone after armed police, backed by the army, fought their way into the neighbourhood to arrest alleged drug boss Christopher “Dudus” Coke and to suppress the “Shower Posse” - his loyal armed supporters who had erected street barricades as an act of defiance to the authorities. At the time of writing, Dudus continues to elude the police manhunt.


The house-to-house military operation, which began last weekend, has left scores of people dead and injured. Hundreds have been arrested, and a 30-day state of emergency has been declared in two parishes.
Desperate residents, trapped in their homes, called the local radio station describing scenes of utter mayhem, with dead bodies left uncollected on the streets and of having to lie on the floor of their homes to avoid the ricocheting bullets.
Ordinary people were caught in the crossfire between armed gang members and an unrestrained police force, which is notoriously corrupt and brutal. Even the minister of education admitted on the BBC World Service that, “we are concerned that there might be human rights violations.”
Golding’s links

The area under assault is represented in parliament by Prime Minister Bruce Golding of the ruling Jamaica Labour Party (JLP). This right wing party has nothing in common with workers’ organisations but instead has a history of carrying out neo-liberal economic policies on behalf of US imperialism.


Media sources say Golding is clearly linked to Coke and the Shower Posse. And according to the New York Times, Coke has a consulting company in Jamaica that has earned millions of dollars in government contracts.
Many commentators believe that Golding’s seeming reluctance to act on a longstanding US Justice Department request to extradite Coke to America to stand trial on drug trafficking in the US and other criminal charges, is because Coke was on the payroll of the prime minister. Coke’s lawyer, until the extradition order, was Tom Tavares-Finson, who is also a JLP senator.


Since the 1970s, both the JLP and the rival People’s National Party (PNP) have benefitted from the criminal gangs that control different neighbourhoods of the capital, Kingston, and who can be relied on to mobilise each party’s vote.
Reformism

The US authorities actively sought to destabilise the left-leaning PNP government in the 1970s, which at that time had widespread support from Jamaica’s workers and poor.
Led by Michael Manley, the PNP won the 1972 election. Manley nationalised a number of industries and introduced popular reforms in health and education provision. He also introduced price controls on a number of key products and provided consumer subsidies for others. Internationally, he established friendly relations with Cuba, which alarmed the US government.


But similar to the experience of Salvador Allende’s 1970-73 reformist government in Chile, the PNP’s failure to take bold and decisive measures to overturn capitalism and carry out a socialist transformation of society eventually led to economic crisis and chronic instability. It demonstrated that there can be no ‘half-way house’ to socialism.
Hit by a world recession and a massive hike in oil prices, unemployment increased (reaching an estimated 40% in some parts of Jamaica). Capitalist financial speculation, rampant inflation and a chronic shortage of foreign exchange and investment meant that living standards declined.
The 1976 election was also marked by widespread violence, when JLP gangs, believed to be armed with guns supplied by the US’s CIA spy agency, murdered hundreds of PNP supporters, including Roy McGann, a PNP MP.


Despite the intimidation and economic crisis, Manley’s party won the election. However, the PNP leadership turned to the capitalist International Monetary Fund (IMF) for financial assistance. The IMF demanded cuts in government spending and inevitably the pressures of capitalism to reverse the social reforms led to widespread disillusion with the PNP.
These conditions led to the sweeping victory of the Edward Seaga-led JLP in the 1980 general election, winning 59% of the vote and 51 seats compared to 41% and only nine seats for the PNP. As many as 800 people died in violence during this election.
The JLP proceeded to carry out IMF dictates and swingeing austerity measures were introduced. Seaga responded to US pressure and severed diplomatic ties with Cuba. In 1983, Jamaican forces participated in the US invasion of the Caribbean island of Grenada, which overthrew the left wing government there.
Having been re-elected in 1989, Manley retired in 1992. The PNP was now under the leadership of Percival Patterson, who shifted the party much further to the political right to embrace market–oriented policies.
Poverty

The economy today continues to be in a weak state, dependent on earnings from tourism, bauxite mining and from remittances from Jamaicans abroad, the latter accounting for 20% of GDP.
Between 1995 and 2005, the Jamaican economy grew by only 0.7% (sixth lowest in the world) and actually contracted by 4% in 2009. The economy remains heavily indebted. Last year, once again, the government was forced to go cap in hand to the IMF for assistance.
Unemployment remains high and poverty and social inequality is widespread. These chronic social problems have fuelled the drug trade and associated gang culture.


The armed party militias established in the 1970s have evolved into criminal gangs, which deal in drugs and are involved in violent feuding for territorial control. Jamaica today has the unenviable record of being one of the most dangerous places on the planet, with 1,500 people murdered, each year, out of a population of three million.
Even charities fear to venture into desperately poor areas like Tivoli Gardens, which have been abandoned by the state agencies and are ruled over by the likes of Dudus Coke, who dispenses his largesse to the poor, like a feudal lord.


Underlying the present conflict is a distorted class struggle. According to the author Ian Thompson: “Politics in Jamaica is often about resources: if the JLP lose an election, Tivoli Gardens stands to lose the housing schemes, public contracts, firearms and other favours politicians have promised in return for votes” (The Guardian, 25 May).
Decades of poverty and despair amongst the majority of the population, while the Jamaican elite and foreign capitalists extract wealth and profits from the workers and poor, amply illustrates the failure of capitalism to provide an optimistic future.


Only through the workers’ organisations absorbing the lessons of the history and experiences of working class struggles throughout the Americas, can the basis be laid for a successful new workers’ political party to develop. Such a party, equipped with a political programme for the socialist transformation of society and linked to an international perspective of struggle against imperialism, could rapidly challenge the Jamaican ruling elite and its rotten system.

[Karl Marx AK47]

not rooting for anyone, but the so called innocent civilians are not... Neither are the extra-judicial killing pigs, hunting down and slaughtering poor people. The people are defending themselves from these monsters. Youtube "island of music and murder"

[¿Que?]

the "civillians" were given 3 days to evacuate, buses were waiting to take them to safe places, instead they protested saying that they would die for dudus a man known as a rapist/murderer and drug/gun runner.
I've heard this same excuse being used to justify the civilian killings in falluja. First of all, being uprooted is not a fun thing. I question the nature of these safe places as actual humane living conditions. I could be wrong.

But also, what do you think would happen to these people once they got back to their communities. Don't you think some people would be bitter and maybe want to label them traitors.

It seems they were innocent, they basically had no real choices to begin with.

[Ocean Seal]

The question is should these people have to leave and why have excuses for the casualties. 60 dead civilians (whether you think them innocent or not) is an excess and as the article goes the drug runner hasn't been caught yet. I'm not defending this criminal, but the Jamaican authorities could have done this more easily if they did not declare war on these guys. How much work is a surprise arrest?