Two nazis stabbed in Sweden

[aty]

Tonight two nazis was stabbed by antifascists in Västerås Sweden during a confrontation, acording to nazi sources the situation is critical for both of them, they are stabbed in the gut, face and thigs. On saturday the nazis will have a demonstration in Västerås and was probably handing out propaganda tonight...

Will update with more news...

http://vlt.se/image_processor/1.841401.1274904918%21image/2451260362.jpg_gen/derivatives/full/2451260362.jpg?maxWidth=650

[No pasarán]

Using knives against fascists is only gonna make them carry them too. Sweden ain't Russia. Using your fists is realistic, trying to kill people is over the top.

[Sasha]

Using knives against fascists is only gonna make them carry them too. Sweden ain't Russia. Using your fists is realistic, trying to kill people is over the top.

i would say it is not as bad as russia but sweden has an big and scary nazi crowd though.
in the 90's several bombings happend, stabbing and arson (even with families with young kids in the house) are common.
although i must say that a lot of swedish antifas do seam to develop an worying violence fetisation i'm holding any condemnation of this event until i'm convinced the nazi didnt pulled knives first.

[aty]

Using knives against fascists is only gonna make them carry them too. Sweden ain't Russia. Using your fists is realistic, trying to kill people is over the top.
Fascists use knifes in Sweden, antifascists must have knifevests during confrontations, it is a sad development.
But rather us killing the fascists than we getting killed by the fascists which were the scenario in the 90s in Sweden.

[No pasarán]

Ok fairpoints. I still think we have to be careful though not to let things escalate into tit for tat killings.

[Dimentio]

This was definetly over the top. Trying to utilise political murders is disgusting and would only lead to the entire left losing support. No one in Sweden is impressed by political violence.

[DreamWeaver]

I hope this doesn't turn into Salem 2.0.

[aty]

I hope this doesn't turn into Salem 2.0.
It wont, they are going to make it. Lucky for us, we dont need any murder on fascists in Sweden at this time, they are far to unsignificant and weak today.

Tactics, tactics, tactics....

Will be an interesting saturday in Västerås.

[Ocean Seal]

This was definetly over the top. Trying to utilise political murders is disgusting and would only lead to the entire left losing support. No one in Sweden is impressed by political violence.
I agree the Nazis will use this as a springboard to bring some borderline members in.

[Crux]

Using knives against fascists is only gonna make them carry them too. Sweden ain't Russia. Using your fists is realistic, trying to kill people is over the top.
To be fair, they already do, at least the Swedish Resistance Movements psychos. If this was self-defense I can sympathize, otherwise attacking nazis with knifes is a pretty bad idea, we don't want to give them any martyrs, and we sure as hell don't want to escalate the violence in the streets. The swedish section of the CWI has been attacked by nazis numerous times, in those instances we have of course defended ourselves, but the way forward is not to violently attack fascists using conspiratorial small groups, but to mobilize a mass of people against their meetings, crush them politically, name and shame them. Also always, always walk in groups if there has been nazi activity recently because really we don't want any martyrs either.

[Wolf Larson]

What would you say to a guy who stabbed a nazi and was put in prison with hundreds of nazi's who knew he stabbed a nazi? Not that I've been through that.

[Wolf Larson]

This was definetly over the top. Trying to utilise political murders is disgusting and would only lead to the entire left losing support. No one in Sweden is impressed by political violence.

Which is why you oppose revolution. What does the Rev in RevLeft stand for? [I'm in no way implying street violence with nazi's is revolutionary].

[The Red Next Door]

Payback is a *****. :D

[1968]

Any updates? The two nazis still in hospital?

[Dimentio]

Which is why you oppose revolution. What does the Rev in RevLeft stand for? [I'm in no way implying street violence with nazi's is revolutionary].

It is hardly a revolutionary situation right now.

[Wolf Larson]

It is hardly a revolutionary situation right now.
true, but that can change in a few years if people actually spent time exposing the masses to anarchism and Marxism instead of fiddling with "Technocracy" dreaming about 300 years down the line. Hell, by that time capitalism will have disintegrated naturally [Moore's law]

[Dimentio]

true, but that can change in a few years if people actually spent time exposing the masses to anarchism and Marxism instead of fiddling with "Technocracy" dreaming about 300 years down the line. Hell, by that time capitalism will have disintegrated naturally [Moore's law]


People know what marxism and anarchism is here, at least more than they know in for example the USA. The main problem is that they don't like marxism or anarchism, nor trust it.

It would probably be somewhat better if marxists started to use the colours blue and white instead of red and black...

[Crux]

People know what marxism and anarchism is here, at least more than they know in for example the USA. The main problem is that they don't like marxism or anarchism, nor trust it.

It would probably be somewhat better if marxists started to use the colours blue and white instead of red and black...
uhm...what?

[Ocean Seal]

People know what marxism and anarchism is here, at least more than they know in for example the USA. The main problem is that they don't like marxism or anarchism, nor trust it.

It would probably be somewhat better if marxists started to use the colours blue and white instead of red and black...

It would be better if we repackaged the entire deal actually. If we called communism something else, got a manifesto, and changed our colors revolution could be just around the block, but we'd have to do it carefully as the right pretty much calls everything they come into contact communist (ie: Obama).

[RedRise]

It would be better if we repackaged the entire deal actually. If we called communism something else, got a manifesto, and changed our colors revolution could be just around the block, but we'd have to do it carefully as the right pretty much calls everything they come into contact communist (ie: Obama).

I actually agree with this. Lots of people just have to hear the word communism or see a hammer and sickle on something to go off on some stupid rant about how communism's always failed and remember what Stalin did and blah blah blah.
Red has always been the colour of revolutions but we do need to change some other stuff if people are ever going to take us seriously. Otherwise we just start looking like a bunch of people trying to cling to failed revolutions and, after all, the revolution is all about change.

On the issue of the stabbed Nazis, we are still at the stage where we have to win with means other than violence. And I agree with what RedBrother said. Knocking off two is only going to create more - they're like Hydra's heads.:rolleyes:

[Chambered Word]

Unfortunately re-packaging communism is not realistic. People are not just going to forget about what our ideology represents and parallels are immediately going to be drawn between our new movement and communism. Far left organizations around the world are not going to drop what they're doing and join us anyway and even if they did it would give the media more opportunity to identify us with communism. Giving Marxism a new label would just create unnecessary hassle if it was even considered as a viable alternative to what we have now.

Unfortunately we just have to work with what we've got. Through propagandizing and dialogue with working class people we have to dispel the myths surrounding socialism and make class struggle the priority. In any case the constant barrage of anti-communist propaganda that people have no doubt been exposed to serves to be used as evidence of the systematic brainwashing that happens through channels of education and media in capitalist countries.

[Montag451]

We need a remodeling. Just look at what succes the Antifa movement has made in Europe over the last ten years. It spreads pro-communist,pro-socialist and pro-anarchist ideas through something as basic as antifascism. It has a modern name, symbols,music and graphics. This is the way to go. It attracts young working class and middle class people in their 20s and 30s. It also has a great succes in attracting europeans rather than immigrants,which in my opinion is a great succes, because for the last decades it had been easy for the left to recruit from minorities, students and upper middle class, but not from the white working class.
That's how it's gotta work.
Not hammers and sickles and quoting Marx, Bakunin and Lenin all the time as if in a central comitee party meeting in the 1930s.

[Crux]

We need a remodeling. Just look at what succes the Antifa movement has made in Europe over the last ten years. It spreads pro-communist,pro-socialist and pro-anarchist ideas through something as basic as antifascism. It has a modern name, symbols,music and graphics. This is the way to go. It attracts young working class and middle class people in their 20s and 30s. It also has a great succes in attracting europeans rather than immigrants,which in my opinion is a great succes, because for the last decades it had been easy for the left to recruit from minorities, students and upper middle class, but not from the white working class.
That's how it's gotta work.
Not hammers and sickles and quoting Marx, Bakunin and Lenin all the time as if in a central comitee party meeting in the 1930s.
They don't build a political movement, though. This stabbing in sweden sure as hell won't build a mass movement capable of sweeping the nazis away. At best violent individual attacks is defensive, at worst it's pure adventurism damaging the larger movement. Again, it sure as hell isn't they way "forward" most AFA groups even recognizes this themselves.

[Palingenisis]

To be fair, they already do, at least the Swedish Resistance Movements psychos. If this was self-defense I can sympathize, otherwise attacking nazis with knifes is a pretty bad idea, we don't want to give them any martyrs, and we sure as hell don't want to escalate the violence in the streets. The swedish section of the CWI has been attacked by nazis numerous times, in those instances we have of course defended ourselves, but the way forward is not to violently attack fascists using conspiratorial small groups, but to mobilize a mass of people against their meetings, crush them politically, name and shame them. Also always, always walk in groups if there has been nazi activity recently because really we don't want any martyrs either.

Why does it have to always a case of either/or and not both/and with so much of the "Left"?

Both approaches have their place though Im not convinced that UAF arent doing more harm than good over England.

[Ocean Seal]

I actually agree with this. Lots of people just have to hear the word communism or see a hammer and sickle on something to go off on some stupid rant about how communism's always failed and remember what Stalin did and blah blah blah.
Red has always been the colour of revolutions but we do need to change some other stuff if people are ever going to take us seriously. Otherwise we just start looking like a bunch of people trying to cling to failed revolutions and, after all, the revolution is all about change.

On the issue of the stabbed Nazis, we are still at the stage where we have to win with means other than violence. And I agree with what RedBrother said. Knocking off two is only going to create more - they're like Hydra's heads.:rolleyes:

We should focus on garnering mass appeal from the people. That way we'd be "killing" many more fascists. If we speak to the people in a way that appeals to them; they will wonder what the advantages of fascism are. We have the upper hand. The rich to working class ratio is way out of tune and the rich have screwed up very recently. In America the richest 1% controls more wealth than the poorest 95%. It's like voltage or pressure. If you have a lot on one very compacted side the tendency is to move towards the other and this is called potential (kind of a clever link from science to communism). We must jump on this.

*By killing I mean bringing over to our side.

[Dimentio]

We should focus on garnering mass appeal from the people. That way we'd be "killing" many more fascists. If we speak to the people in a way that appeals to them; they will wonder what the advantages of fascism are. We have the upper hand. The rich to working class ratio is way out of tune and the rich have screwed up very recently. In America the richest 1% controls more wealth than the poorest 95%. It's like voltage or pressure. If you have a lot on one very compacted side the tendency is to move towards the other and this is called potential (kind of a clever link from science to communism). We must jump on this.

*By killing I mean bringing over to our side.

The "problem" is how to translate this reality to a more multi-cultural society. In general, studies show that the right-wing trend in a lot of European countries could have something to do with the Non-european immigration. The reason is that when resources are going to be allocated, it depends on what groups people define themselves as. If for example people define themselves after their class, we would get a stronger left-wing sentiment. But if they define themselves after their ethnicities, the majority would very likely attach its interests to those of the capitalist class who generally happen to share their ethnicity, and see increased social welfare as a "theft" from "hard-working citizens" to "them foreigners".

I think this probably could be seen as the reason of the diminishing influence of the left (both the so-called "far left" and the social democratic left).

[Montag451]

They don't build a political movement, though. This stabbing in sweden sure as hell won't build a mass movement capable of sweeping the nazis away. At best violent individual attacks is defensive, at worst it's pure adventurism damaging the larger movement. Again, it sure as hell isn't they way "forward" most AFA groups even recognizes this themselves.

I wasnt advocating the use of knives, i was talking in general that the left movements need a "face-lifting".
Yes, antifa is more of a street movement then a political one , but still it's image , it's "brand" should be a beacong how to present a political movement in the 21st century. The left has learned how to establish a street presence in Europe in the past few years, but street presence is nothing without a large popular support based on political succes, it is necessary for the left to acheive this through parliamentary parties, syndicates (yes,anarcho-syndicates too) and newly established forms of parallel governing (they call it Plenums in my country and are used as a form of direct democracy in cases of university or working place blockades) and not only street protests,stadiums and physical clashes

[Dimentio]

I wasnt advocating the use of knives, i was talking in general that the left movements need a "face-lifting".
Yes, antifa is more of a street movement then a political one , but still it's image , it's "brand" should be a beacong how to present a political movement in the 21st century. The left has learned how to establish a street presence in Europe in the past few years, but street presence is nothing without a large popular support based on political succes, it is necessary for the left to acheive this through parliamentary parties, syndicates (yes,anarcho-syndicates too) and newly established forms of parallel governing (they call it Plenums in my country and are used as a form of direct democracy in cases of university or working place blockades) and not only street protests,stadiums and physical clashes

Sadly, the conduct of the Antifa has disqualified it as a serious political force across many countries in Europe. I know that the actions by for example Reclaim the Streets/Klimax and other similar street demonstration groups are mostly serving to alienate workers instead of making them positive to whatever ideals the movement might hold. The trashing of Gothenburg in 2001 has probably destroyed a lot of AFA's credibility for generations.

In some countries, there might be a general sentiment which is awed by the use of political violence, but most countries in Europe are not such countries today.

[FriendlyLocalViking]

Good! It's good to see people responding to Fascists in the language they understand; force.

It's the only thing they understand! And since it's their main tactic, well... the old saying /is/ "He who lives by the sword shall die by the sword"...

[Dimentio]

Good! It's good to see people responding to Fascists in the language they understand; force.

It's the only thing they understand! And since it's their main tactic, well... the old saying /is/ "He who lives by the sword shall die by the sword"...

While I certainly get a lot more appalled by violence that is directed against people who don't deserve it, this thinking is so strange. What progressives should aim for is victory and not vengeance. Revenge against people because of their opinions will not transform the world.

[Crvena-Zastava]

Using knives against fascists is only gonna make them carry them too. Sweden ain't Russia. Using your fists is realistic, trying to kill people is over the top.

I don't understand, what is up with the Fascist's/Anti-Fascist's in Russia? Can somebody please shed some light on this?

Back to the point of the thread, however, I think this is excellent news. I applaud our Swedish comrades for such an act of valor! It is a shame that they [The Fascist's] survived, unless they already died in hospital?

[Patchd]

I don't understand, what is up with the Fascist's/Anti-Fascist's in Russia? Can somebody please shed some light on this?

Back to the point of the thread, however, I think this is excellent news. I applaud our Swedish comrades for such an act of valor! It is a shame that they [The Fascist's] survived, unless they already died in hospital?
The fascist problem is Russia is huge, with white nationalists not only acting in militant groups attacking immigrants, LGBTQ people and antifascists, but have formed pretty much their own militias also. They have training camps, urge their members to join the Russian army to get training and spread propaganda etc...

But either way, I am not bothered about a fair fight, I see no problem with using weapons against fascists in even the most liberal countries.

[svenne]

What some people here don´t seem to understand is that the use of knives only leads do more dangerous and deadly forms of violence in Sweden. Which - of course - only will lead to comrades here in Sweden, many of whom are my friends, getting more and deadlier injuries.

Please don´t be stupid asshats and think this is something good.

[aty]

Sadly 4 comrades have been arrested for this, if they are sentenced they will probably face some years in prison. Acording to the police they dont say anything during the interrogations, this is good because they were not arrested at the scene. We already have a number of antifascists in Sweden serving longer jail time.

You can send your support to the political prisoners here; revfront-prisoners [at] hushmail.com
Antifa or AFA is not the main group attacking fascists anymore in Sweden. Revolutionary Front are the group mainly involved in clashes, they are not just antifascist but have a wider socialist militant agenda.
http://www.revfront.org/arkivet/sthlm050108.jpg
"Revolutionary Front" http://revfront.org/www/?page_id=713

[aty]

Good news! After forensics it has emerged that it was the nazis who pulled knifes first and one of the nazis even stabbed himself! All of the arrested antifascists have been released after the forensics and the police have arrested the nazis instead! The nazis fingerprints is all over their own knifes.

The nazis pull knifes, the antifascists responds and send two of them to intensive care. Tough to be a nationalsocialist in Sweden these days...

[REVLEFT'S BIEGGST MATSER TROL]

Well I'm a bit disapointed (not that I have any right to be having never stabbed a nazi in my life..) at the lack of support shown to these antifa people.

Yeah, I think it was a bad tactical move (assuming here the unlikely case of this being a totally unprovoked attack) but so what? As long as they aren't just thugs, they're comrades.

And if your worried about the lives of fascists, or their "rights", please, don't call yourself a revolutionary.

[REVLEFT'S BIEGGST MATSER TROL]

While I certainly get a lot more appalled by violence that is directed against people who don't deserve it, this thinking is so strange. What progressives should aim for is victory and not vengeance. Revenge against people because of their opinions will not transform the world.

Don't you think that this is a "victory" over 2 fascists, at least?

You said you only advocate violence "in a revolutionary situation", that just seems insane to me. Our capitalist societies end up killing millions each year, I don't see why, if it is beneficial to us to engage in violence, there is any moral reason to refrain. suggesting we hold back such things until "the right period," combined with such condemnation worries me - if a leftist near you were to disagree about the "right period" for violence, would you still support them, or would you consider them a criminal?

Besides that, I don't think we are ever going to get to a revolutionary period if we keep on holding back "until a revolutionary period".

[Dimentio]

Don't you think that this is a "victory" over 2 fascists, at least?

You said you only advocate violence "in a revolutionary situation", that just seems insane to me. Our capitalist societies end up killing millions each year, I don't see why, if it is beneficial to us to engage in violence, there is any moral reason to refrain. suggesting we hold back such things until "the right period," combined with such condemnation worries me - if a leftist near you were to disagree about the "right period" for violence, would you still support them, or would you consider them a criminal?

Besides that, I don't think we are ever going to get to a revolutionary period if we keep on holding back "until a revolutionary period".

I don't "support" people, I cooperate with them.

While I know most Swedes hate nazis, most Swedes also dislike violence. What brought down Swedish street nazism of the old was a number of murders in the 90's and early 00's conducted by nazis and targeted against immigrants and leftists.

If leftists would start to use indiscriminate violence against political opposition of any kind, it would provide the powers with a pretext to clamp down on them.

From a strategic point of view in today's western society, its almost preferable to be the target of violence compared to being the perpetrator of it, at least when one is thinking about gaining public support.

[aty]

I don't "support" people, I cooperate with them.

While I know most Swedes hate nazis, most Swedes also dislike violence. What brought down Swedish street nazism of the old was a number of murders in the 90's and early 00's conducted by nazis and targeted against immigrants and leftists.

If leftists would start to use indiscriminate violence against political opposition of any kind, it would provide the powers with a pretext to clamp down on them.

From a strategic point of view in today's western society, its almost preferable to be the target of violence compared to being the perpetrator of it, at least when one is thinking about gaining public support.
But this incident did not cause any harm to the left, it was not even mentioned in the national press. Antifascism is not and never will be about gaining a huge amount of support but is only a defense for our own socialist movement. If we can not defend ourselves then nobody will dare to be leftwing. If you remember the times around 1999 then you will know that many people were very scared of the nazis. And three years after the "big terror campaign" in 1999 we had the biggest nazi-demonstration since world war 2, they rather gained support.

We dont want to up the ante of violence but we must be ready to use the same level of violence as the nazis does. If we dont, then the nazis will have the streets if they just have knifes and are ready to use them and we are not. One of the nazis even had a machete, personally if we have nazis running around with knifes and machetes I would want someone to take them down before someone innocent gets killed.

[aty]

One of the nazis sent to hospital was Calle Ulin who just before this incident wrote on the antinazis facebook-event:

"Your friend that I predict will be at the counterprotest, (name), got to taste some knuckles before he left crying. A reminder to all of you who are going to protest in favour of "anti-Swedishness".

:rolleyes:

[Dimentio]

But this incident did not cause any harm to the left, it was not even mentioned in the national press. Antifascism is not and never will be about gaining a huge amount of support but is only a defense for our own socialist movement. If we can not defend ourselves then nobody will dare to be leftwing. If you remember the times around 1999 then you will know that many people were very scared of the nazis. And three years after the "big terror campaign" in 1999 we had the biggest nazi-demonstration since world war 2, they rather gained support.

We dont want to up the ante of violence but we must be ready to use the same level of violence as the nazis does. If we dont, then the nazis will have the streets if they just have knifes and are ready to use them and we are not. One of the nazis even had a machete, personally if we have nazis running around with knifes and machetes I would want someone to take them down before someone innocent gets killed.

If you want them to be taken down, why do it in public?

[aty]

If you want them to be taken down, why do it in public?
Because the nazis were out amongst the public with knifes and machetes? That is a direct imminent threat against the working class.

[Dimentio]

Because the nazis were out amongst the public with knifes and machetes? That is a direct imminent threat against the working class.

What brought down nazism as a street threat in 1999-2002 was more or less the compact hatred they received both from Swedish society and from the Swedish establishment. I agree that the anti-fascists could have had an effect on the situation, but lets not exaggerate that effect.

[aty]

What brought down nazism as a street threat in 1999-2002 was more or less the compact hatred they received both from Swedish society and from the Swedish establishment. I agree that the anti-fascists could have had an effect on the situation, but lets not exaggerate that effect.
The nazis was not brought down as a street threat in 1999-2002. In 2007 they had 1200 participants at the nationalday, they just stopped their terror campaign after 1999. I would say that between 2006 and early 2009 the violence from nazis peaked on the street, much because that the antifascist movement in Sweden finally had grown up and were ready to take them on. That was not the scenario in the 90s when the antifascist movement were far to week to be a direct physical threat against the nazis.

The nazis going from 1200 participants to 0 in 2 years is not because of "the compact hatred from society and the Swedish establishment". It is because of militant antifascists, the focus has not even been on the nazis trying to murder people (the arson against the syndicalist-family etc) but the focus have been on the antifascists. Before 2006 antifascists were called leftwing activists in the media, now they are called leftwing extremists. When SÄPO(the security police) released their extra report in political extremism ordered by the government the focus was not at the nazis but at the growing "threat" from the leftwing. Despite that the nazis had 14 murders/murder attempts and the leftwing 0.

The nazis did not meet any resistance from the society or establishment from 2006-2009, only from militant antifascists. The antifascists met resistance from the establishment. Despite this we now have a nazi movement in ruins not being able to do anything constructive.

[samofshs]

Using knives against fascists is only gonna make them carry them too. Sweden ain't Russia. Using your fists is realistic, trying to kill people is over the top.
in america, everyone carries knives anyways. the only good fascist is a dead one.

[The Fighting_Crusnik]

While I consider Nazism among one of the most degenerative ideollogies to ever pop up in humanity, vigilantism against them and other fascists is only going to make those who participated in it fascists themselves... Unless a court has ordered a punishment based upon solid evidence, I refuse to believe (with few exceptions) that a person has the right to go out and attack whoever they want to just because they few a sense of self justification...

[aty]

While I consider Nazism among one of the most degenerative ideollogies to ever pop up in humanity, vigilantism against them and other fascists is only going to make those who participated in it fascists themselves... Unless a court has ordered a punishment based upon solid evidence, I refuse to believe (with few exceptions) that a person has the right to go out and attack whoever they want to just because they few a sense of self justification...
Okey, so the anarchists and communists fighting the fascists in Spain were in fact fascists themselves? Violence is not fascism. A fascist is someone who promotes fascism. A communist using violence is still a communist. A conservative using violence is still a conservative.

[The Fighting_Crusnik]

Okey, so the anarchists and communists fighting the fascists in Spain were in fact fascists themselves? Violence is not fascism. A fascist is someone who promotes fascism. A communist using violence is still a communist. A conservative using violence is still a conservative.

I disagree because I do not believe that shear violence, except in the case of war or large scale fighting, should be tolerated at all. Therefore, those in Spain had the right to fight because their own lives were in danger. But for a person or a group to take up vigilantism is in fact taking up an act of Fascism. A Fascist is defined (by webster) as one who has a tendency toward or actual exercise (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fascist#) of strong autocratic or dictatorial control. Vigilantism in and of itself is dictatorial like simply because a vigilantly takes up action without any real right to. But again, I will say that the the Communists and Anarchists fighting the fascists in Spain were justified because they were threatened; one of the few exceptions when it comes to taking up self action. The other word that needs to be looked at is autocracy and more directy, the label Autocrat. An autocrat is one who has undisputed influence or power: a term that purely and directly describes the mindset of a vigilantly.

Therefore, to some it up, if a communist or an anarchist, or anyone for that matter attacks a person without there being a eminent threat towards their own well being, then they are without doubt taking up a fascist like action and therefore making a hypocrite out of themselves. We should without doubt fight neonazis and other scum that may arise, but we should fight with logic and with reasoning until they are either no more or until they take up actions that threaten our well being and our lives.

[aty]

I disagree because I do not believe that shear violence, except in the case of war or large scale fighting, should be tolerated at all. Therefore, those in Spain had the right to fight because their own lives were in danger. But for a person or a group to take up vigilantism is in fact taking up an act of Fascism. A Fascist is defined (by webster) as one who hasa tendency toward or actual exercise (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fascist#) of strong autocratic or dictatorial control. Vigilantism in and of itself is dictatorial like simply because a vigilantly takes up action without any real right to. But again, I will say that the the Communists and Anarchists fighting the fascists in Spain were justified because they were threatened; one of the few exceptions when it comes to taking up self action. The other word that needs to be looked at is autocracy and more directy, the label Autocrat. An autocrat is one who has undisputed influence or power: a term that purely and directly describes the mindset of a vigilantly.
Rights is not something metaphysical that you are born with, that is a liberal approach. Rights is something you take, you struggle for them, you fight to get them, that is a socialist approach.

If we as socialists have the power to take down those who threaten our rights, we should do so. At least in this present dictatorship of the bourgeoisie society. We take the right to do so.

A fascist is a fascist not someone who has a "tendency toward or actual exercise of strong autocratic or dictatorial control". A fascist also wants corporatism, strong national identity, militarism, totalitarian state, anticommunism etc etc. You just cant pick and choose one or two things.

Antifascism is always selfdefense. If we let them grow we socialists will die and get hurt. Far to many socialists have been killed by fascists to take the threat lightly.


Therefore, to some it up, if a communist or an anarchist, or anyone for that matter attacks a person without there being a eminent threat towards their own well being, then they are without doubt taking up a fascist like action and therefore making a hypocrite out of themselves. We should without doubt fight neonazis and other scum that may arise, but we should fight with logic and with reasoning until they are either no more or until they take up actions that threaten our well being and our lives.If I as a communist uses violence against the bourgeoise does that make me a fascist? No it is just violence from a socialist. When Bush invaded Iraq was that fascism? Is the police fascist? No they are not. You need to learn a lot more about political theory.

[The Fighting_Crusnik]

I agree that in we're in danger because of the growing threat of fascism and I know that we are born without rights and that we must fight for our rights. But I believe that in the long run, the best way to fight for those rights is through logic and wisdom rather than violence and brutality. Violence and brutality may bring rights quickly, but they bring anger and disgust among those whom are watching us. Logic and Wisdom requires patience for it does not bring immediate results except for maybe a victory here or there in a debate. However, the true difference comes in the opinions and thoughts about those who sit and watch us. If they see that we are willing to fight with logic and wisdom at our side against the fascists, the true victory will have been won for us. The reason being, is that the majority of people do not like to watch or to be involved with physical violence. And here is another thing: if people know us to fight with logic and wisdom, and a fascist comes along and physically attacks one of us for our views, it is those people who watch that will bring down strong condemnation.

Therefore, it boils down to a simple question: Do we fight for immediate rights for ourselves and not care for those who watch? Or do we fight patiently with wisdom and logic and win the hearts of those who watch?

Personally, I'd have to go for the second option. :)

[samofshs]

While I certainly get a lot more appalled by violence that is directed against people who don't deserve it, this thinking is so strange. What progressives should aim for is victory and not vengeance. Revenge against people because of their opinions will not transform the world.
unless someone were to commit nazicide.

[aty]

Sometimes fighting with logic and wisdom is to fight with violence and brutality. The history have shown us that this is clearly the case with fighting fascism. Antifascism is not what are going to bring socialism, antifascism is just selfdefense for our socialist movement and in the long run the working class. It is the socialist movement that are going to bring a socialist society, you dont bring a socialist society with antifascism. Antifascism is just selfdefense, not something that will build a huge support for the socialist movement, it is just something that has to be done to protect ourselves.

[The Fighting_Crusnik]

true, but if people realize and see that we're not umpulsive and that we are willing to avoid physical violence, it will make it all that more easier to get them to realize the benefits of socialism/communism.

[Dimentio]

Violence isn't fascism. Fascism is a particular ideology.

Violence should be avoided in countries like Sweden though, because most Swedes reject violence.

[The Fighting_Crusnik]

I'm not saying that violence is fascism, I am saying that violence that is put into motion for the sake of vigilantism and similar actions are fascist like based upon the dictionary definition.

[aty]

true, but if people realize and see that we're not umpulsive and that we are willing to avoid physical violence, it will make it all that more easier to get them to realize the benefits of socialism/communism.
No it wont, I dont think combating fascism could ever draw mass-support to the socialist movement. The socialist movement have to draw that support by struggling for the working class. And it is a lot easier to build a strong socialist movement if we are not intimidated by fascists, our level of violence must at every time outweigh the fascists level of violence. We have to be so strong that they dont dare to attack us, then we dont need to use violence anymore. When this happens we can build support amongst the working class in peace and prepare for classwar.

Look at this video, this is from an antifascist festival in Stockholm three weeks ago. When antifascists just arrive at the morning to set up the festival 20 nazis appear. What do we do, we can beat the crap out of the nazis and the festival will probably be cancelled by the police and everyone arrested. Or we can stand our ground, arm ourselves, wait for the nazis to make the first move and because the nazis realise that they would probably get the shit kicked out of them they dont attack and just stand 150 metres away. Our level of violence outweighs theirs, so we dont have to use violence and the festival can go as planned.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cdIft92IPBI

[samofshs]

I'm not saying that violence is fascism, I am saying that violence that is put into motion for the sake of vigilantism and similar actions are fascist like based upon the dictionary definition.
the bourgeouse dictionary, that is.

[durhamleft]

I'm not saying that violence is fascism, I am saying that violence that is put into motion for the sake of vigilantism and similar actions are fascist like based upon the dictionary definition.

Fascism is a political ideology, as is communism, or liberalism, or fucking monster raving loony party, and violence is separate to all of them. The idea that violence against fascists is fascist is fucking stupid, its anti-fascist. Do I agree with it? probably not, but it isn't fascist. Violence is only fascist if the violence is carried out in the name of fascism!

[aty]

Things are heating up around Västerås, nazi pulled a gun four days ago. Two activists from the Revolutionary Front were followed by two nazis to the train station. At the train station the nazis attacked the socialists with batons and other weapons but they failed with their attack and were forced to run away without inflicting any serious injurys. The socialists ran after and then one of the nazis pulled a gun but that did not stop the socialists so the nazi fired three shots and hit one in the arm and the other in the shoulder. But it was not a real gun but a carbon-oxygen gun.

At least one of the nazis is a representative for the nationalsocialist party "Svenskarnas Parti"(Swedish peoples party) and is standing in the elections this year.

[Optiow]

I don't think violence against fascists is the best thing. In self defense it is fine, in attacks it is unjustified.

[Crvena-Zastava]

Well I'm a bit disapointed (not that I have any right to be having never stabbed a nazi in my life..) at the lack of support shown to these antifa people.

Yeah, I think it was a bad tactical move (assuming here the unlikely case of this being a totally unprovoked attack) but so what? As long as they aren't just thugs, they're comrades.

And if your worried about the lives of fascists, or their "rights", please, don't call yourself a revolutionary.

Agreed, I find it absolutely appalling at how many people actually give a damn about the lives of these disgusting piglets.

Reminds me of those Hippies protesting against big business and such, and yet do nothing but smoke pot and become greasy burdens within society.

Knock a fascist in the head, it will feel good [Trust me]. There is so much tolerance for Fascism on this site...

[Sperm-Doll Setsuna]

At least one of the nazis is a representative for the nationalsocialist party "Svenskarnas Parti"(Swedish peoples party) and is standing in the elections this year.

I hate those fucking worthless piece of shit, they dump their inane fucking propaganda in my mail drop all the time. Fucking arseholes.

[The Feral Underclass]

I don't think violence against fascists is the best thing. In self defense it is fine, in attacks it is unjustified.

How do you propose we tackle the rise of fascism then?

[Atlee]

It would probably be somewhat better if marxists started to use the colours blue and white instead of red and black...

I have tried to say this time and time again, from a psychological standpoint, red can seem angry and black is not welcoming. Think about the "Orange" Revolution that happened just a few years back. I like to use blue and white myself. I have been know to add a dash of yellow too for a hit of color. I am always looking for art that uses positive reinforcement of an idea.

[No pasarán]

I don't think violence against fascists is the best thing. In self defense it is fine, in attacks it is unjustified.

Most Fascisits are bullys who like to prey on the weak. More often than not they are cowards too. However occasionally you have to meet force with force. Attacking any group of fascist is arguably self defence if you look at how disgusting and selfish their ideals are. If you do attack fascist's you must humilate them (at best) or scare them into never wanting to attack any one or meet in numbers again.

[aty]

I hate those fucking worthless piece of shit, they dump their inane fucking propaganda in my mail drop all the time. Fucking arseholes.
http://revfront.org/www/wp-content/uploads/MJ.jpg
Mikael Johansson is the nazi who pulled the gun, he is standing for the nazi-party "Svenskarnas parti" in Surahammar.
At the same time Svenskarnas Parti claims that they are against violence, but just in the last two months thay have attacked socialists two times around Västerås. First that time with knifes but they got stabbed themselves and now with batons and a gun but they had to run away...


The nazis who got stabbed is still in jail waiting for trial...

[4kmrx]

I don't think violence against fascists is the best thing. In self defense it is fine, in attacks it is unjustified.

That might be so but confrontations at the current progress are inevitable and increasing in numbers. Nazis are pulling their ranks together in Nordic Countries as whole. If confrontations are inevitable there is only one viable strategy: act decisively. For most part they seem to still think in 1930s mentality and act accordingly. We lefties in generally should be able to out think them. "Strike the head and body will" any pre-emptive strikes should be targetted to their leadership.

[Buitraker]

I don't think violence against fascists is the best thing. In self defense it is fine, in attacks it is unjustified.

I think shame

[Thirsty Crow]

Wait a minute, the guy stabbed himself and is now awaiting the trial?
Can some of the Swedish comrades, or anyone informed on this matter, provide a link or something?

[aty]

Source that it was that the nazis who attacked first but got hurt because the antifascists is much better fighters! http://magazin24.se/koping/2010/08/26/hallstaborna-attackerade-forst

[Bad Grrrl Agro]

Stabby rip stab stab!
Really the only good fascist is a dead motherfucking fascist

[Bad Grrrl Agro]

I have tried to say this time and time again, from a psychological standpoint, red can seem angry and black is not welcoming. Think about the "Orange" Revolution that happened just a few years back. I like to use blue and white myself. I have been know to add a dash of yellow too for a hit of color. I am always looking for art that uses positive reinforcement of an idea.
Pink

[Fawkes]

I don't think violence against fascists is the best thing. In self defense it is fine, in attacks it is unjustified.

The very existence of fascists is a direct threat to the safety and livelihoods of nearly everyone, and as such, violent attacks on them, regardless of direct provocation, are acts of self-defense.

[Dimentio]

The very existence of fascists is a direct threat to the safety and livelihoods of nearly everyone, and as such, violent attacks on them, regardless of direct provocation, are acts of self-defense.

This won't really win you any hearts in the working class communities.

If you want to get rid of fascists physically, there are more discreet ways than to stab them in their guts in an open mall where everyone could witness such an attack.

[Fawkes]

This won't really win you any hearts in the working class communities.

If you want to get rid of fascists physically, there are more discreet ways than to stab them in their guts in an open mall where everyone could witness such an attack.

I never said that was the best or only course of action, I was just addressing the opinion that violence is ineffective as a tool.

[NickGriffin]

Violence is not the answer

[CHEGUAVARA]

I don't think you should use violence against anyone.

[aty]

Reports are just coming in that a Swedendemocrat (Swedish BNP) tonight got a swastika carved in his forehead(Inglourious Basterds) by two masked men breaking in his house...

[Die Rote Fahne]

Fascists want to use violence to expel ethnics.

I say, use violence to put the fascists in there place.

[Obs]

Violence is not the answer
Let's compare the two options:

Violence:
-Fascists are afraid to spread their views normally, and must rely on rallies and the like, which leads people to see them as weirdos trying to half-assedly recreate SS marches.

-People who entertain thoughts of joining a fascist movement choose not to do so because they're afraid of getting their head cracked open.

-As fascists are generally disliked and perceived as an insane fringe group, most people don't care a lot that they get roughed up.

-Leftists and minorities don't have to fear getting assaulted by fascists, as the fascists are aware that they will be punished by antifascist organisations for their actions.

-Beating up Nazis is fun


Non-violent resistance:

-Leftists, who refuse to use violence, are routinely harassed and assaulted by fascists.

-Minorities must rely on the police and the bourgeois state to protect them from hate crimes, with mixed results at best.

-As fascists go unchecked, they may spread their political views as any other political organisation would. This leads to their numbers bolstering.



...But yeah, obviously all violence is wrong. Flower power, man!

[Ravachol]

Violence is not the answer

I'd say the same if I were Nick Griffin.... :laugh:

[Dimentio]

Let's compare the two options:

Violence:
-Fascists are afraid to spread their views normally, and must rely on rallies and the like, which leads people to see them as weirdos trying to half-assedly recreate SS marches.

-People who entertain thoughts of joining a fascist movement choose not to do so because they're afraid of getting their head cracked open.

-As fascists are generally disliked and perceived as an insane fringe group, most people don't care a lot that they get roughed up.

-Leftists and minorities don't have to fear getting assaulted by fascists, as the fascists are aware that they will be punished by antifascist organisations for their actions.

-Beating up Nazis is fun


Non-violent resistance:

-Leftists, who refuse to use violence, are routinely harassed and assaulted by fascists.

-Minorities must rely on the police and the bourgeois state to protect them from hate crimes, with mixed results at best.

-As fascists go unchecked, they may spread their political views as any other political organisation would. This leads to their numbers bolstering.



...But yeah, obviously all violence is wrong. Flower power, man!

The antifascists are also pretty hated by the general public, at least here in Sweden, due to being seen as just "equally bad marauders" as the fascists. It has gone so far after this swastika attack that the eurocommunist leader has condemned the attack. In some countries, militant anti-fascism could win support (usually in countries where militant anything could win support just because the people are turned on by violence, but that doesn't work in Sweden).

[aty]

The antifascists are also pretty hated by the general public, at least here in Sweden, due to being seen as just "equally bad marauders" as the fascists. It has gone so far after this swastika attack that the eurocommunist leader has condemned the attack. In some countries, militant anti-fascism could win support (usually in countries where militant anything could win support just because the people are turned on by violence, but that doesn't work in Sweden).
I dont know but I think that the demonstrations against the Swedendemocrats have been pretty good in both Malmö and in Gothenburg were the meeting was stopped! Despite that some people use violence a lot of people are willing to gather and radically protest against them and stop their meetings.

Now we just have Uppsala and Stockholm left on thursday and I think there will be over 1000 on both meetings protesting.
And I do also believe that the swastika was self-inflicted trying to build support. If it was not i totally condemn it because it is not tactically right!

[BeerShaman]

How do we know if that stabbing was not on self defense?
Even if it was done this harsh way... How do we know that the nazis didn't have other kinds of weapons or something that made the others go crazy...
Not rational but important.

[svenne]

How do we know if that stabbing was not on self defense?
Even if it was done this harsh way... How do we know that the nazis didn't have other kinds of weapons or something that made the others go crazy...
Not rational but important.

Last thing i heard, it was the nazi who pretty much stabbed theirselves.


To some other people: it's very interesting that people think it's a question about violence or non-violence everywhere and anytime, when the discusssion is about Sweden today, and some nazis getting stabbed.

Sometimes violence is useful, sometimes it's not. It's pretty stupid to increase the violence instead of building the working class movement. At least right now.

[Tavarisch_Mike]

-Beating up Nazis is fun

This.

[BeerShaman]

Last thing i heard, it was the nazi who pretty much stabbed theirselves.


To some other people: it's very interesting that people think it's a question about violence or non-violence everywhere and anytime, when the discusssion is about Sweden today, and some nazis getting stabbed.

Sometimes violence is useful, sometimes it's not. It's pretty stupid to increase the violence instead of building the working class movement. At least right now.
You troll! I didn't say that the antifas did a cool thing to stab those nazis. I just made a question...

[thälmann]

mass mobilisation against fascists and racists is very important, as well as political propaganda against them. but the concrete attacks on them is very imortant, in much areas the most important thing.
in germany for example you have areas where you are dont have to be afraid of them, they simply dont go there. but this situation is hard to achieve. every antifascist in areas like these will attack them as soon as they see them, and thats the only way to get victory over them on the streets.
on a more political area, for example demonstrations, mass blockades and so on are good.

[aty]

Cant we change this thread-name to "antifascism in Sweden", would be better.

[aty]

It has gone so far after this swastika attack that the eurocommunist leader has condemned the attack.
And at the same time Swedens right wing prime minister Fredrik Reinfeldt have now said that the Swedendemocrats should expect attacks because of their politics. Upside down world! :blink:

[aty]

Swedendemocrats in Gothenburg yesterday:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t0G5MCCINf8

Malmö this Sunday:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AjrlGgXLXHI

[Dimentio]

I dont know but I think that the demonstrations against the Swedendemocrats have been pretty good in both Malmö and in Gothenburg were the meeting was stopped! Despite that some people use violence a lot of people are willing to gather and radically protest against them and stop their meetings.

Now we just have Uppsala and Stockholm left on thursday and I think there will be over 1000 on both meetings protesting.
And I do also believe that the swastika was self-inflicted trying to build support. If it was not i totally condemn it because it is not tactically right!

That is quite large groups of people, but 10 000 or 100 000 would be far more impressive. The impression one is getting from "medium Swedes" is that its fun that the fascists and antifascists are beating up one another, and they should do that instead of disturbing "normal" people.

[svenne]

You troll! I didn't say that the antifas did a cool thing to stab those nazis. I just made a question...

Hey hey, the other part of the message was "to some other people", so you shouldn't feel attacked by it :)

[hatzel]

Before I say anything, I'll just let it be known that a good few posts on this thread have made me feel pretty sick. Yeah.

With that out of the way, can we just remind ourselves that violence against fascists, rather than actions against fascism is never going to really achieve anything. Or, it might just make them more 'invisible', but it's hardly going to reduce the number of attacks on ethnic minorities and so on. In fact, it might even increase them. I'd say it's pretty selfish for our lovely white antifa types, who have made the decision to engage in violence, to antagonise fascists, potentially leading to increased violence against the real enemies of nationalism, namely ethnic minorities, who never had the luxury of choosing whether or not they wanted to have anything to do with the fight. Who were forced to, by the colour of the skin they were born in. Much more effective than trying to reduce the number of racists by just cracking their heads open would be by trying to reduce the number of racists by putting forward some decent arguments why they're wrong in their viewpoint, or positing a decent alternative solution to the same problems that we all face. At the moment, as a few have touched upon, the common man won't consider antifa as any more attractive than fascism itself, and would probably have no problem seeing two groups of boneheads kicking the shit out of each other, if it 'demobilises' either. Doesn't matter if the stain is red wine or coffee, nobody wants it on their tablecloth...

:thumbup1:

[Jazzhands]

I don't think violence against fascists is the best thing. In self defense it is fine, in attacks it is unjustified.

When you're talking about Nazis, ALL violence is self-defense. Their entire ideology is about threatening to kill people. If they get the chance, they WILL try to kill us. Plus, this particular time, the Nazis attacked us so we responded with appropriate force.

Also, beating up Nazis is fun.

[aty]

That is quite large groups of people, but 10 000 or 100 000 would be far more impressive. The impression one is getting from "medium Swedes" is that its fun that the fascists and antifascists are beating up one another, and they should do that instead of disturbing "normal" people.
Yes and that is perfect for us because we have a bigger capital of violence at the moment. If we do something against the nazis no one care! And if you are a militant antifascist you can count on something to happen to you, that is part of the game.

But the nazi-scene in Sweden is almost dead anyway.

[aty]

Before I say anything, I'll just let it be known that a good few posts on this thread have made me feel pretty sick. Yeah.

With that out of the way, can we just remind ourselves that violence against fascists, rather than actions against fascism is never going to really achieve anything. Or, it might just make them more 'invisible', but it's hardly going to reduce the number of attacks on ethnic minorities and so on. In fact, it might even increase them. I'd say it's pretty selfish for our lovely white antifa types, who have made the decision to engage in violence, to antagonise fascists, potentially leading to increased violence against the real enemies of nationalism, namely ethnic minorities, who never had the luxury of choosing whether or not they wanted to have anything to do with the fight. Who were forced to, by the colour of the skin they were born in. Much more effective than trying to reduce the number of racists by just cracking their heads open would be by trying to reduce the number of racists by putting forward some decent arguments why they're wrong in their viewpoint, or positing a decent alternative solution to the same problems that we all face. At the moment, as a few have touched upon, the common man won't consider antifa as any more attractive than fascism itself, and would probably have no problem seeing two groups of boneheads kicking the shit out of each other, if it 'demobilises' either. Doesn't matter if the stain is red wine or coffee, nobody wants it on their tablecloth...

:thumbup1:
But antifa is not formed to attract a mass amount of people, they are formed to beat the nazis out from the streets. So the socialist movement can work in peace without fascists attacking them, it is the socialist movement who will build a mass movement.

By the looks of it the nazis in Sweden is almost beaten from the street. And that after a pretty hard campaign from Sweden antifas with some people currently in jail/been in jail. But by the looks of it the nazis dont have any more to give, the only nazis that still are active is the nazi-psychopats in Swedish Resistance Movement and they are a maximum 50 people and they have a lot of people in jail to. For a fact they do more harm to the nazis than good.
I would say that militant antifascism have worked very well in Sweden.

[hatzel]

But antifa is not formed to attract a mass amount of people, they are formed to beat the nazis out from the streets. So the socialist movement can work in peace without fascists attacking them, it is the socialist movement who will build a mass movement.
I hope nobody thinks that antifa and socialists are considered as separate entities. I mean, whatever antifa does is considered to be what socialists do. Thus, socialists are tarred with the same brush as antifa's actions, and if antifa's actions isolate somebody, they'll be equally isolated from wider socialism. We might even look at this in terms of poll results...let's bring it in a bit from the extremes, because the whole far-right (or far-left) won't tally up more than a few thousand votes nationwide. But what about if we thinking about Sverigedemokraterna against Vänsterpartiet...and, over the last decade, support for Vänsterpartiet has halved, whilst Sverigedemokraterna take about 20 times as many votes as they did. Similar tendencies can be seen amongst the more extreme left- and right-wing parties, too, but as they only pick up a few thousand each, trying to identify trends really is pointless. Anyway, if this is what we consider a successful campaign against the rise of the right-wing...well, our idea of success must be pretty lacklustre!

Fact of the matter is that there are (emerging) social problems in Sweden, and the right is rising on the back of it. When there are so many immigrants, and such strain on the welfare system, it's pretty easy for the right to seem like an attractive solution, as it at least posits a potentially solution: foreigners, go back home. Unless the left pulls their finger out, stops mindlessly targeting individuals and starts targeting the ideology, nothing will change. Until the left starts giving people a solution to the problems which doesn't involve blaming the immigrants, suggesting a more reasonable way to go forward, I can't see this trend being reversed. I wonder how many more people will have to be driven out of the country before people start to realise that these mindless, childish and pathetic tactics are actually doing more harm than good...

[Reznov]

Violence is playing into these fascists hands.

[aty]

I hope nobody thinks that antifa and socialists are considered as separate entities. I mean, whatever antifa does is considered to be what socialists do. Thus, socialists are tarred with the same brush as antifa's actions, and if antifa's actions isolate somebody, they'll be equally isolated from wider socialism. We might even look at this in terms of poll results...let's bring it in a bit from the extremes, because the whole far-right (or far-left) won't tally up more than a few thousand votes nationwide. But what about if we thinking about Sverigedemokraterna against Vänsterpartiet...and, over the last decade, support for Vänsterpartiet has halved, whilst Sverigedemokraterna take about 20 times as many votes as they did. Similar tendencies can be seen amongst the more extreme left- and right-wing parties, too, but as they only pick up a few thousand each, trying to identify trends really is pointless. Anyway, if this is what we consider a successful campaign against the rise of the right-wing...well, our idea of success must be pretty lacklustre!

Fact of the matter is that there are (emerging) social problems in Sweden, and the right is rising on the back of it. When there are so many immigrants, and such strain on the welfare system, it's pretty easy for the right to seem like an attractive solution, as it at least posits a potentially solution: foreigners, go back home. Unless the left pulls their finger out, stops mindlessly targeting individuals and starts targeting the ideology, nothing will change. Until the left starts giving people a solution to the problems which doesn't involve blaming the immigrants, suggesting a more reasonable way to go forward, I can't see this trend being reversed. I wonder how many more people will have to be driven out of the country before people start to realise that these mindless, childish and pathetic tactics are actually doing more harm than good...
But these tactics have worked against the nazis, they are pretty much gone.
In nazis i dont include Sverigedemokraterna. Sverigedemokraternas success is not the militant antifascists fault. It is the failed workers movement controlled by the Socialdemocrats fault.

Antifa in Sweden have moved away from just antifascism and now Antifascist Action barely dont exist. We now have the militant Revolutionary Front whos main focus is the class struggle but dont mind beating some fascists from time to time(as part of the class struggle). I think that group also have stepped away more and more from antifascism because the nazis is not a threat anymore because they have been beaten on the street.

Now we must build a new fresh political alternative for the working class in Sweden. Please tell me how to do that. :)

[Tavarisch_Mike]

I wonder where all this moralism suddenly comes frome, violence is just a tool that should be used when its necessary. History (along with personal experience) has showed that fascism wont stop unchallanged, for once it would be good if we could learn frome it, antifascism as always been the labour movements "code red" an emergency that has to be taken care of immediatly.

As aty says the antifa done in Sweden has been real successful. In the 90s there where this hordes of bonehead-nazis that attacked immigrants, reds, unionists, homosexualls, ramndoms, even bird-watchers(!) almoust evry night. They throw molotov cocktails on barracks where newly arrived immigrants where housing. The nazis robbed banks, planed to attack firts of may demonstrations with hand granades, it was impossible for the left to try to do any kind of work, but today it all has stopped or its highly marginalized and that is the resulte of using pure force against the reaction, nothing else.

The reason why we Sverigedemokraterna gain votes is because the left is weak, the left needs to get back to basics and start to talk about more wellfare (in a way that people will belive) and to say that immingrants and the elderly are not against eachother both groups have all to win on aleft-wing politics. The left has also becomed to pc when it comes to talk about class and to straight out say that we must take back resourcess frome the rich.

[hatzel]

I'd say there's a bit of an issue in mindset here. "Well, there aren't many Nazi's [a claim I might object to], and we don't care about the rise of the mainstream right-wing, because they're okay. We'll just blame the Social Democrats." Well, I'm sorry, but why is it okay that people disillusioned with the Social Democrats turn to the right-wing parties? They could equally well turn to Vänsterpartiet, Rättvisepartiet Socialisterna or another such party. The fact that they turn right, perhaps merely starting increased radicalism, should surely be of concern to us? The fact that it isn't distresses me...however, the fact that AFA do oppose SD and other right-wing parties (who remembers Martin Kinnunen and his poor girlfriend, eh?) suggests to me that their rise, and the rise of anti-immigration / -immigrant sentiment should be considered as much of a failure for AFA as it would be if / when Svenskarnas parti pick up a few hundred more votes than the old NSF did.

Just because there weren't many neo-Nazis to start with, doesn't mean that we can now laud how few neo-Nazis there are. However, speaking on a Europe-wide scale, Sweden is rapidly becoming the capital of racial hate crime. In fact, I can give the Jewish perspective that Malmö in particular is considered almost synonymous with anti-Semitism. Working on the assumption that there hasn't been a seismic shift in the last 2½ months, I think I'm right to be pretty suspicious of the claim that racial intolerance has been almost eradicated, when it can be seen to be on the rise in Malmö. And what will happen if Göteborg or Stockholm or even Örebro start to resemble Malmö in demographics? What's to say that the level of violence we see in Malmö today won't spread to these other cities? I can't see any reason it won't, and I don't think the left has even begun to contemplate the fact that the right-wing will rise, and continue to do so, in the face of increasing immigration to Sweden, paired with increasing unemployment, unless the left-wing parties, mainstream or otherwise, start positing viable solutions.

As this article (http://www.thelocal.se/20508/20090707/) would suggest, both sides of kids (because that's who they are, really) are as bad as each other. Or at least considered as such by the common man. And me...well, I'd never get involved in any group which supports, or derives any authority from, violent intolerance. Remember, I'm by no means the only person to think this. Time to stop isolating people, methinks.

[svenne]

KrimsKrams, just some things:

you seem to be discussing some whole other matter than some of the other people here. While a lot discusses the physical threat the militant nazis poses, you seem to - at least in your last post - discuss the Swedish Democrats, and non-organized racism. That's pretty much two different things.

While the first one makes it impossible to do political work on the left and has to be (violently, sometimes) countered just so we can walk outside, the second one demands that we can go out and do political work.

Don't get me wrong here - we nowadays CAN operate on the streets, and that makes the militant antifascism not extremely important today. But maybe tomorrow.

The reason people's not turning to RS and Vänsterpartiet is because they're pretty fucked up organizations, really. Neither of them poses an alternative to any bigger groups of the working class. For craps sake, our anarcho-syndicalist union has like 6000 members, while Vänsterpartiet has 9000. Meanwhile the autonomous movement in Sweden propably is bigger than any of the left of the left parties... Something surely has to be wrong with RS and VP, then.

[aty]

however, the fact that AFA do oppose SD and other right-wing parties (who remembers Martin Kinnunen and his poor girlfriend, eh?)

You mean the couple who faked an assualt from AFA? And after the fact that the only fingerprints was from Kinnunen himself he got kicked from SD?

Troll.

[Dimentio]

The popularity of the autonomous movement is pretty low despite that, in Sweden overally. People in general see them just as another brand of maniacs, and that reputation has been spread over to many people's perception of what the real left is.

[hatzel]

You mean the couple who faked an assualt from AFA? And after the fact that the only fingerprints was from Kinnunen himself he got kicked from SD?

Troll.

I am literally gob-smacked. It seems like a very much fake assault (http://www.dn.se/sthlm/fangelse-for-sd-attack-1.916081), doesn't it? I wouldn't complain, but really...we're claiming that no fingerprints other than Kinnunen's own were found at a train station?! Somebody sure as hell attacked him and his partner, and somebody sure as hell got dragged through the courts for it, and rightfully so. And I think you'll find, as it says in this article and every other article I've read, that he voluntarily took himself out of politics, to protect himself and his family from political violence. Which, believe it or not, seems to be the intention of this whole idea, as this thread argues, so why the fuck would you then try to shift the responsibility, and say it's nothing to do with anti-right-wing policies and violence? Stand up and be proud of your fucking actions! Stand up for what you so vocally support! Unless you consider there to be something shameful in beating up women for their choice of partner...

As for Svenne, I was just pointing out that the violence extends to the more mainstream parties as well. And doesn't help. As I said, talking about the thousand or so people who are members of or vote for extreme-right parties is pointless, as the numbers are next to nothing. Talking about the, what, 7-8% of the country who are expected to vote for SD in a few days might be a bit more fruitful. And I was pointing out (quite fairly, I believe) that if the violence aimed at SD, ND etc. doesn't do anything to stamp out their ideologies, why do we have any reason to think that it will be successful against neo-Nazis and more blatant racism? That same racism which is increasing in Sweden, not decreasing! I'm not saying V or RS are parties that necessarily provide a great option for the common man, though I would argue that the fact that SD, ND and more extreme right-wing parties are gaining support means that they must be doing something "right". That is to say, they are wooing the common man. "There are problems, you don't have a job, there are lots if immigrants here it's the immigrants' fault", to summarise. Why exactly aren't the leftist parties successful in attracting these disillusioned people? Aren't they providing decent enough solutions to the problems? And don't claim that the left and the autonomous groups are unable to do this, because the neo-Nazis keep stopping them and beating them up, because the right-wingers seem to do a pretty decent job of attracting voters, despite having a leftist fist in their face half the time. This is what I'm suggesting, that violence merely alienates the largely non-violent proletariat, leaving only the violent minority to support either side, whilst the rest to make that very difficult decision between Moderaterna or Socialdemokraterna. Unfortunately, as the vast majority of Swedes today seem to be particularly potent pacifists (to quote Björk: 'I thought I could organise freedom, how Scandinavian of me'), 90-odd% of the populace wouldn't even think twice about voting for a party who only crops up in their awareness in stories about people being beaten up! Surely we can see this, or are we all too blind and wrapped up in our ideologies to give two shits about the vast majority of the proletariat who have no choice but to think that we're a bunch of dickheads, because we insist on acting like dickheads? As an officially certified member of an ethno-religious minority, there's no chance of me voting for any right-wing party. Supporting somebody who would gladly beat me up for being 'different'?! Give me a break! But supporting somebody who would gladly beat me up if I don't share their opinions? Really, tell me, what's the difference, because I don't see it. Sorry.

Also sorry if telling the truth and trying to make suggestions for how this whole shindig can be improve makes me a 'troll'. Of course we should all sit here, "I think this" "yes, you're right!" "I agree!" "you're so fucking wonderful!" "I want your babies!", but that's not actually going to get us anywhere. Never was a yes-man, me, and have no intentions of starting now, when I think that the suggestions posited are having a detrimental effect on the appeal of leftist movements, and a detrimental effect on the lives of minorities, and even other working class individuals you claim to be fighting for.

[And, a question for Obsmagon, whoever that is...what are these infamous lies I'm spreading? Tell me, so that I can refute with sources, proof and the like...]

[aty]

Okay I presumed you were talking about when Kinnunen and his partner were faking the assault in their appartment. When his partner(who his also a Swedendemocrat!) was tied up with tape and all that. And I feel fucking sick when you think it is right that comrades get locked up in jail. Fuck you and your little meaningless trotskyist sect who has never done nothing, nothing to combat the extreme right.

[Dimentio]

Right-wing extremism could appear as an unfathomable horned monster from the woods, but is in fact generated by the fact that there is a market for it in exposed communities, who end up blaming one another. Those who are really dangerous are the individuals who are rousing up communities against one another.

The skinheads who are beating up and destroying things are quite scary from an individual point of view, but they are ultimately a consequence of a failing society. They would have joined whatever anti-system organisation they could join if they think their solution is believable.

Krimskrams is right in the fact that the left has largely failed to reach the working class, and thus opened up a window for the extreme right.

[hatzel]

And I feel fucking sick when you think it is right that comrades get locked up in jail

I would consider it unacceptable to oppose or support legal actions undertaken against an individual on the basis of their political opinions...doing so would be flagrant discrimination...

[svenne]

Well, Krimskrams, you once again again began talking about a different thing than the physical threat to leftists (and to a lesser degree, minorities) that nazis sometime pose, when they're not stopped. I am NOT discussing the Swedish Democrats.

We all know they're a product of a bad system (which dimentio points out), but since we won't fix it up tomorrow, we're gonna have this problem tomorrow to.

Since the neo nazis have been in a state of disarray for some time, the autonomist left has been able to focus on more pressing matters, and it seems like for example the SAC is growing for the first time in a lot of years, and nowadays organizes 10 % of the service workers in the restaurants in Stockholm.

Ideals are nice, the reality - is not.

[Renno]

Funny that these kind of stories always show the division caused by the illusion, created by the media and government, that pacifism is the only and right way. Of course the ones in power will do anything to 'prove' that pacifism is the way, it is not in their interest that people use violence as A mean to achieve their goals. As mass-mobilization can be A mean also.

As can be seen in many topics on revleft concerning this subject, it usually turns out in i am right you are not. For me it is not about being right or not, it is not about how you want to achieve your/our common goal, it is about achieving the goal.

Violence can be one of the means, if you use it tactical.
In my hometown there is a annual gothicfestival, and for years there have been playing rightwing bands. Lettercampaigns, demos or informing the media did not work. Last year some antifa had a serious discussion with one of the rightwing bands that played, and this year no nazicrap anymore.
We have a strong antifa-group over here, that informs people, does research, organises demonstrations and yes keeps the streets clean of naziscum.
We do not judge, we show solidarity.

Remember; if racism is a tool for the ruling class to divide the working class, pacifism is the tool of the ruling class to divide all those who oppose them. There are no good or bad demonstrators, only demonstrators.

Solidarity is our weapon!

[Dimentio]

The reason why we Sverigedemokraterna gain votes is because the left is weak, the left needs to get back to basics and start to talk about more wellfare (in a way that people will belive) and to say that immingrants and the elderly are not against eachother both groups have all to win on aleft-wing politics. The left has also becomed to pc when it comes to talk about class and to straight out say that we must take back resourcess frome the rich.

Won't work (what will work I honestly not know). Whenever the social democrats and the left party are moving - or giving the impression - to move to the left, they have been losing votes.

[Montag451]

The left needs to connect the problem of mass immigration with the problem of capitalism.
Unfortunately immigration has become a #1 (partly manufactured) political issue in Europe and cannot be ignored by the left anymore. Right now it is being usurped by the far right and sometimes even the moderate right and theay are scoring a lot of points on it.
The german left has adressed this problem and is currently the 3rd or 4th party in parliament i think, and nazis are not even near to entering. (that's ofcourse only one of the reason why neonazis are weak in germany)

[Fullmetal Anarchist]

I hate to say but it's what we're all thinking (I hope) couldn't have happened to two better (or worse people). But let's be honest this ain't the way for it to happen.

[GreenCommunism]

The left needs to connect the problem of mass immigration with the problem of capitalism.

i have often said that, and i toned down my skepticism of immigration here after some people on revleft told me that by doing so i am justifying people being killed on the border etc.

to me immigration is a capitalist business, each country tries to attract immigrants by promising them a life full of joy and prosperity, when they come in our countries, this illusion quickly shatter and while they may have a better material status, they suffer from exclusion,racism, ostracization etc.

[Montag451]

Modern capitalism needs modern immigration. It reduces the minimum wage standard, it diminishes the union ranks, it creates division among workers.

The left ofcourse shouldnt be against immigration a priori,because every human being should have the right to move on this planet wherever it wants.
But on the other hand we have to point out that this mass-immigration-taking-our-jobs business is the fault of capitalism which exploits the third world thus making it's inhabitants wanting to cross over to the West in search of bread, and then capitalism making use of it in it's own backyard by exploiting these people by the second time.
The blame for mass immigration has to be shifted to capitalism and the state, from the immigrants themselves.
This is the way to reduce racism and boost anticapitlist sentiment, as opposed to a negative fixation to the immigrants themselves.

Immigration should not be a taboo subject to the left. The left should not have any taboo subjects. But today it has, and many so.

[Tavarisch_Mike]

Won't work (what will work I honestly not know). Whenever the social democrats and the left party are moving - or giving the impression - to move to the left, they have been losing votes.

Honestly do you have any clear source of that? When i hear "moving towards the left" im thinking about more wellfare and stuff and in those cases the ones who sugest it gains support, like in this election the social democrats didnt talk so much about that and focused on middle class people in the inner citys and look whats happend.

[Dimentio]

Honestly do you have any clear source of that? When i hear "moving towards the left" im thinking about more wellfare and stuff and in those cases the ones who sugest it gains support, like in this election the social democrats didnt talk so much about that and focused on middle class people in the inner citys and look whats happend.

The problem is that we have an inflated middle class today, or at least large segments which identify themselves with the middle class. Wherever social democrats have moved to the right in Europe (apart from Slovakia), they have prospered.

Politics today is more about being affected by the currents of society than to affect them.

[Omi]

Wasn't this always the case in capitalism? Politics is in a way just a system to fix the societal problems capitalism poses.

[MellowViper]

Yah, fascists are like "let the blood flow". Most socialists find general value in human life, and I think this could cause violent attacks against leftists to rise, a majority of which are non-violent and passive. Lets not let Sweden turn into Russia.

[aty]

8 nazis just sent to hospital after they tried to attack a socialist-meeting in the town of Kristianstad in Sweden. The nazis turned up outside the house and started to attack it with bottles and had shields and ironbars. But the socialists was ready for them and stormed out and those nazis who did not flee was beaten so badly they had to go by ambulance to the hospital. One nazi was still lying unconscious on the ground as the police arrived. No antifascist hurt only nazis to hospital. One antifascist arrested by police.

The nazis was from the "Swedish resistance movement"(SMR). They are "Hitlerists", they are still firm nationalsocialists and have one member in jail for 6 years after he stabbed an antifascist in the neck. They will probably take this very hard and try to attack socialists now.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45VZ8YSI-Bo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45VZ8YSI-Bo)

[Anarchist Skinhead]

good stuff, always glad to read about fash getting a kicing :)

[1968]

Thanks for the above information.

I've managed to find two Swedish news articles on the event that can be read in English through Google Translate.

Big brawl
on Canal Street:

http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?hl=en&sl=sv&tl=en&u=http://www.nsk.se/article/20101030/KRISTIANSTAD/101039852/1125&rurl=translate.google.com&twu=1&usg=ALkJrhjXOMoGRq6rojEJHrhVKuMyGQwEiA

Violent brawl with neo-Nazis:


http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?hl=en&sl=sv&tl=en&u=http://www.sydsvenskan.se/sverige/article1283968/Storre-brak-pa-Kanalgatan.html&rurl=translate.google.com&twu=1&usg=ALkJrhjGGeJlN3b6tCb-jGsfnQXckFnkow

[Anarchist Skinhead]

looks like fash got their right desserts ;)

[aty]

The police says that the fight is on video so probably we will see a good nazi-bashing soon. Hopefully this movie dont put any socialists in jail...

Report from Revolutionary Front, used google translate...



Nazis fled from their own attack

A handful of activists from the Revolutionary Front went on Saturday October 30 to Kristianstad to participate in a start-up meeting of a new left group there. On site, a member of the Organization give a talk about class struggle and anti-fascism.

When the activists arrived, they saw more than ten Nazis dressed in ski masks, goggles, knife / bullet-proof vests and matching patriot.nu-shirts. They were also armed with bottles, shields and long sticks. Activists from the Foundation called together the activists who would attend in person from Skåne and went to the counter-attack against the Nazis. As backed off as soon as they realized what would happen, they got the feeling that the RF will not allow them to interfere with any socialist meeting, anywhere!
Seven Nazis ended up in hospital, while others were chased less than one mile from a housing area, a parking lot and through the woods.

Revolutionary Front proved once again that we refuse to accept that the Nazis disrupt the socialist development, and we'll be there every time they try and by all means available to stop them!

[Ravachol]

The police says that the fight is on video so probably we will see a good nazi-bashing soon. Hopefully this movie dont put any socialists in jail...

Report from Revolutionary Front, used google translate...

I'm always surprised at the unusual level of violence that seems to come with Swedish Fascism, especially when compared to countries such as the Netherlands, the UK or even Belgium.

Is there a particular historic reason for this or something integral to the swedish political climate?

[aty]

I'm always surprised at the unusual level of violence that seems to come with Swedish Fascism, especially when compared to countries such as the Netherlands, the UK or even Belgium.

Is there a particular historic reason for this or something integral to the swedish political climate?
In Sweden the nazis started to organise in the beginning of the 90s when we had a huge crisis and they were blamming immigrants. It was a whole new movement that exploded and many of the nazis believed that a race-war would begin in Sweden. The nazi-groups was often paramilitary and robbed the army of their weapons and banks, killed some people and some cops. Many went to the Balkan-wars as mercenarys and when they returned the violence was on a whole other level.

Their terror-campaign stopped in 1999 after a huge public backslash after they killed syndicalist Björn Söderberg and two cops.
Today you can say that "Swedish resistance movement" is the only paramilitary nazi-group left in Sweden. They have some members in jail for having weapons and explosives.
The antifascist-movement in the 90s was never on the same level as the nazis but the antifascist-movement you see in Sweden today is a direct result of the 90s. The violence in Sweden is not at the same level today as it was, but the level of violence from antifascists is a lot higher than in the 90s.
Revolutionary Front is the main group taking on the nazis in the street but antifascism is not their main concern, at the same time they have a lot of class struggle-campaigns.

[Anarchist Skinhead]

they seem to be doing their job pretty well ;)

[aty]

"I thought he was a redhead, but there was blood"

Kristianstad.
A woman saw a red-haired guy crawling around in the grass. It turned out that he was bloody. Some guys on Österäng saw the right-wing extremists who fought bloody and taken refuge in the net. "They said they were not racists but they just wanted to keep his own race."

Not much gossip about Saturday's brawl in the parking lot outside the technical house and nursery school next door. On closer skärskådan is the broken glass and shrapnel in quantities, here where the children will go in about less than one day and play.

Several Kristianstadsbladet encounters have not been in place when the quarrel began, but have heard different information flourish.

And those who have seen something, do not dare to identify themselves.

Across the Channel Street, a lady with a bicycle-propelled.

- I saw a guy crawling on the grass on the other side, up against the sidewalk. I thought he was a redhead, but it was blood, "she says.

Her friends who live in tower block away had seen a bunch of disguises come walking towards trays house.

- They thought it was a masquerade.

One who works at the restaurant on Sommarlust says that one of the guests have seen a gang of about a dozen black-clad rush past the outside, against the trade union house, at 14 o'clock.

- Another guest, who usually come here saw when one of them took a chair from the restaurant.

Since there was work to do inside the restaurant waiter could not follow what was happening outside.

- But when I looked out later I saw a big crowd, several of them, standing and turning on a single person, I did not see if there was a guy or a girl. Dreadful that so many stands and hit a person, "he says.

The police did not come until the row was over.

- It was certainly one fourth, twenty minutes later. And the ambulance did not come until further after a while.

Janne Joy, who lives across from the unions house, watched as police cars came.

- I do not know what they're doing. Whatever opinion you have is not taking on someone else. Those who fight do not understand that they can do anything to destroy their future, they could be injured for life.

A woman says she was heading for the ice rink when she met a gang of about a dozen black-clad in the parking lot.

- They were robbing hoods on it, someone had the mask for the face and sticks in their hands. It looked as if they had body armor during the jackets, "she says.

- There was no question of "silent demonstration, but they said" now we take them ". I was terribly scared and took me as quickly as possible from there.

Out on Österäng are several young guys who know what happened.

- When we went into the net, it was five or six guys. Some lay down. All of them were bloody and had wounds to the head, one had broken finger and it was a stick with blood on, says some of them.

One of the slain had gloves with fiberglass-knuckles on it. They wore T-shirts that said the National Liberation Front and a picture of AK 47th

- They said they were not racists, just that they wanted to preserve his own race.

One of the older guys, 17 years, says he and a couple to set off against Sommarlust.

- As we rounded the corner, where the gas station was, so we met three of which we thought was racist. We were prepared for trouble. When they saw that the police came they returned. They said they were from the Antifa, "says 17-year-old.

http://www.kristianstadsbladet.se/kristianstad/article1284780/Trodde-han-var-rodharig-men-det-var-blod.html

[aty]

Here you have swedish nazis in Pluton Viking in the civil war in former Yugoslavia:
http://cdnstatic.expressen.se/polopoly/bilder/2010/09/11/1.2131012TS1284193212460_slot100slotWide75ArticleF ull.jpg

As you realize this means that in Sweden we socialists had to develope our ability to fight more militant. And in the last 10 years that is what have happened.

[Dimentio]

Yah, fascists are like "let the blood flow". Most socialists find general value in human life, and I think this could cause violent attacks against leftists to rise, a majority of which are non-violent and passive. Lets not let Sweden turn into Russia.

Not likely. Violent neonazism is on the decline, while eurofascism is on the rise. The SD could not be defeated by (physical) attacks against their representatives, especially not when the attacks increasingly are illuminated in the media.

[Tavarisch_Mike]

Nice to see that Skåne is showing theire resistance. About the video posted above i just laughed.

EDIT; Wasnt pluton viking more of a pose thing? What ive heard is that they where simply a bunch of "war-wankers", fantazising about wars, but didnt have any military experience so when they arrived they stared arguing with each other and went home. They never participated in any battle, thats what i thought.

[aty]

EDIT; Wasnt pluton viking more of a pose thing? What ive heard is that they where simply a bunch of "war-wankers", fantazising about wars, but didnt have any military experience so when they arrived they stared arguing with each other and went home. They never participated in any battle, thats what i thought.
Pluton Viking was pretty much a failure. Some members went home and some went in to other forces. Jackie Arklöv was one swedish mercenary in former Yugoslavia that later killed two cops during a bankrobbery in Sweden that would finance a race war.

[Ravachol]

Pluton Viking was pretty much a failure. Some members went home and some went in to other forces. Jackie Arklöv was one swedish mercenary in former Yugoslavia that later killed two cops during a bankrobbery in Sweden that would finance a race war.

That guy was born in Liberia and of 'mixed race' descent... How the bloody hell did he end up in such a strict Neo-Nazi environment? I mean over here there have been some confused people of 'mixed blood' and even some Jews in Neo-Nazi groups, but nothing as serious as this Arklöv character...

[empiredestoryer]

two nazis stabbed in sweden ...were they two off duty american soldiers on leave from the middleeast

[Sasha]

Wow, that must be one of the most pathetic shit posts in revlefts history. I'm not even going to moderate it but leave it instead as an monument too your idiocy.

[aty]

That guy was born in Liberia and of 'mixed race' descent... How the bloody hell did he end up in such a strict Neo-Nazi environment? I mean over here there have been some confused people of 'mixed blood' and even some Jews in Neo-Nazi groups, but nothing as serious as this Arklöv character...
He was adopted to Sweden and probably felt like swedish, he also developed a huge interest in the second world war and nazism in young age. As I have heard he said that he would not have a child with a swedish women and mix races. Then he did military service in Sweden then went to french foreign legion but when the war in former yugoslavia broke out and he went over there and fought for a while and got sentenced to 16 years in prison for warcrimes. The nice red cross released him after a year and sent him back to Sweden were he soon got in contact with nazis that liked his military experience. Very difficult to know what exactly was going on in his mind.

http://www.sydsvenskan-img.se/archive/00042/arklov195_42782a.jpgJackie in HVO, Croatian Defence Council

[Tavarisch_Mike]

Arklöv was/is clearly disturbed, as a child he was often bullied for being of half liberian orogin, living in a ethnicly homogenous community. Its told that he once where finded painting his face with white paint to "fit in". He have also told to his lawyer that when he gets his hands on a gun, he kind of loos his control, he gets intoxicated with power and desires to revenge.

[aty]

Last night the nazis in "Fria nationalister"(Free nationalists) were attacked when they had their christmas-party. During the day they had gathered people from all across the country and were handing out propaganda and looking for socialists in the more red parts of Stockholm called "Södermalm". Later in the night they had a christmas-party togheter in a place outside Stockholm. At about 20.30 molotovs, teargas and other stuff were thrown in the house. All their cars were smashed and their tires cut.

Article in swedish: http://www.svd.se/stockholm/nyheter/fria-nationalisters-julfest-attackerad_5779127.svd

[Anarchist Skinhead]

Is it possible to write something more about that in English so it can be put on various websites?
Cheers

[Delenda Carthago]

WQcgcmZvv28

I stabed a scum in Sweden, just to see him die

[greenwarbler]

No one has explained why it is, we should care what the Nazis think? I, personally, do not...

[Base-Line]

Using knives against fascists is only gonna make them carry them too. Sweden ain't Russia. Using your fists is realistic, trying to kill people is over the top.

There is also the fact that you aren't much use in jail. Rough 'em up and send a message.

We need to humble the "strong" not make them martyrs.

[aty]

Four antifascists got between 16-24 months in jail, the three nazis only 6 months.

[Anarchist Skinhead]

got addresses to write to and more info about the case to publicise?