Assata Shakur forum

[Universal Struggle]

found this forum

http://www.assatashakur.org/forum/

Good site but alot are seemingly black nationalists and have reactionary outlooks.

Join and win the nationalists over.

It is important to breakdown what needs to be and encourage what needs to be.

Site has manuals vids and all sorts
This site is big and has potential.

Cheers.

[mosfeld]

How is black nationalism reactionary?

[Cooler Reds Will Prevail]

How is black nationalism reactionary?

"There are two kinds of nationalism, revolutionary nationalism and reactionary nationalism. Revolutionary nationalism is first dependent upon a people's revolution with the end goal being the people in power. Therefore to be a revolutionary nationalist you would by necessity have to be a socialist. It you are a reactionary nationalist you are not a socialist and your end goal to the oppression of the people.

Cultural nationalism, or pork chop nationalism, as I sometimes call it, is basically a problem of having the wrong political perspective. It seems to be a reaction instead of responding to political oppression. The cultural nationalists are concerned with returning to the old African culture and thereby regaining their identity and freedom. In other words, they feel that the African culture will automatically bring political freedom. Many times cultural nationalists fall into line as reactionary nationalists.


Papa Doc in Haiti is an excellent example of reactionary nationalism. He oppresses the people but he does promote the African culture. He's against anything other than black, which on the surface seems very good, but for him it is only to mislead the people. He merely kicked out the racists and replaced them with himself as the oppressor. Many of the nationalists in this country seem to desire the same ends.


The Black Panther Party, which is a revolutionary group of black people, realizes that we have to have an identity. We have to realize our black heritage in order to give us strength to move on and progress. But as far as returning to the old African culture, it's unnecessary and it's not advantageous in many respects. We believe that culture itself will not liberate us. We're going to need some stronger stuff."


-Huey P. Newton

[mosfeld]

Black Nationalism was the core of the Black Panther Party's ideology, so quoting Huey P. Newton to explain how Black Nationalism is reactionary doesn't really make that much sense. But really, how is Black Nationalism, defined as wanting self-determination for black people, reactionary? It's progressive nationalism and something communists support. As a note, I agree with Huey's points.

[Lacrimi de Chiciură]

Like Newton is saying in the text above, it's reactionary unless it is anti-capitalist, because otherwise it leaves oppression intact. There can be no true self-determination as a people under capitalism because the ruling class determines things for the exploited class.

Also, just looking at that website there is threads that are anti-gay and anti-east and north African so those are some reactionary tendencies within black nationalism, but I don't think that makes all black nationalists reactionary.

on a side note,
this thread = moved to Websites

[Universal Struggle]

Mosfels, some of them believe in capitalis,, but want black capitalists to control "their community"

So that is reactionary.

[Crusade]

"When a man is consistent, you at least know what is happening and what to expect. Stokely says one thing one day and another the next. He accuses us of misleading people by our (the black panthers) coalitions with whites, but I say he confuses people when he goes to Washington and tries to prevent a Black policemen from being kicked off the force---a policeman who takes orders to kill his own people and who protects the Establishment. Stokely told me he would support anyone---he did not care who---if the person were Black. We consider this viewpoint both racist and suicidal. If support a Black man with a gun who belongs to the military am of your oppressor, then you are assisting in your own destruction." - Huey P Newton (From 'Revolutionary Suicide')

[Universal Struggle]

i just finished reading that, Eldridge came off pretty bad, he bit about huey burning rats alive was a bit sadistic though lol.

[scarletghoul]

Yeah it's a great book. And Huey Newton spent a lot of effort insulting Eldridge Cleaver in much of his writing, it can get kinda tiring. I mean, he even added little insults in his PHD thesis :lol:. Anyway..

The Huey/Panthers changed their ideas on nationalism a few times, so there are a lot of statements that will contradict eachother (and their legacy is also contradictory, on the one hand some reactionary black nationalists like the NBPP and on the other hand revolutionary communists). By 1971 they had dropped nationalism and even internationalism, in accordance with the new theory of Intercommunalism. Since we're throwing Huey quotes around in here-

In 1966, we called ourselves, that is, the Party, a Black Nationalist Party. We called ourselves Black nationalists because we thought that nationhood was the answer. Shortly after that we decided that what was really needed was revolutionary nationalism, that is, nationalism plus socialism. After analyzing the phenomena a little more, we found that it was impractical and even a contradiction. So, therefore, we went to a higher level of consciousness. . .we saw that in order to be free we had to crush the ruling circle and, therefore, we had to unite with the peoples of the world, so we called ourselves Internationalists. We sought solidarity with the peoples of the world. But then what happened? We found that because everything's in a constant state of transformation and that because of the development of technology, because of the development of the mass media, because of the firepower of the imperialist, because of the fact that the United States is no longer a nation but an empire, that nationhood did not exist, because they did not have the criteria for nationhood. Because their self-determination was destroyed, because their economic determination was destroyed, because their cultural determination was transformed-- and I would like for you to strike "destroyed", I would like for you to put in "transformed". Excuse me--all of the nations were transformed at the hands of the imperialist and the ruling circle in the interests of the imperialists. So we found that in order to be an internationalist, we had to be also a nationalist, or at least acknowledge nationhood. So all internationalists are also nationalists, because, if I understand that word, "inter" means some inter-relationship between things and "nationalism" or "nationhood" means the interrelationship between a group of nations. Now if no nation is in existence and in fact the United States is an empire, that would make it impossible for us to be internationalists. We are no longer internationalists,we're not afraid about that. Matter of fact 'we will try to shed light upon it, and we will define the new transformation and the phenomena, and we will call ourselves "Intercommunalists". Because nations have been transformed into communities of the world."I think this is true, and that nationalism of any kind is based off an incorrect interpretation of the world. However, the distinction between 'reactionary nationalism' and revolutionary nationalism' still stands. Nationalist forces can clearly be revolutionary, it's just they're not entirely correct theoretically and this can have make their revolution less effective.

And yeah Assata Shakur forums is interesting to read sometimes. I havn't posted or joined however.