EDL supporter here!

[Sam_b]

Im sure a Palistinian or North-Koran might disagree

There are elections in Palestinian territories. Hamas, for example, was a democratically elected organisation.

[EDL in peace]

It isn't democratic to vote for representatives. Democracy means that people directly vote for the laws, not through representatives.

How do you want to solve the "muslim problem" by the way?

I said a few posts back mate...

[Budd1234]

Copy and pasting a couple of articles of attacks on whites does not prove there is such a thing as anti-white racism. Prejudiced attacks in an oppressed economical and political system where one is in the massively underpriviliged minority is not racism.

So if there is no such thing as anti-white racism then there must be no such thing as anti-asian racism or anti-black racism.

[#FF0000]

Im sure a Palistinian

They vote in Palestine.

[#FF0000]

So if there is no such thing as anti-white racism then there must be no such thing as anti-asian racism or anti-black racism.

No because white people have political and economic power. You didn't read what I said at all

[Budd1234]

When a Asian attacks somebody because they are White, it is a racist attack because the victim was choosen based on skin colour.

[EDL in peace]

There are elections in Palestinian territories. Hamas, for example, was a democratically elected organisation.

Wasnt it a power share at first until Hamas flexed its muscles and seized control of the whole region? I doubt this coup was decided with a general election...

[#FF0000]

When a Asian attacks somebody because they are White, it is a racist attack because the victim was choosen based on skin colour.

No. It is predjudice/bigotry. Not racism. I already explained what racism is and isn't. Your definition of racism is flat out wrong.

[Palingenisis]

When a Asian attacks somebody because they are White, it is a racist attack because the victim was choosen based on skin colour.

Yes it is and I know that does happen.

[Aesop]

The EDL focuses on one issue 'Islamic extremism'

Why is that, is it because they are are easy target thanks to the media or/and because most followers of the religion happen to be Asain.


personaly I oppose ALL extremism whether its religous, race or policy based.

Except jingoism I take it.


Yes we are democratic, you got to vote for your prime minister didnt you?

Actually in the Uk you vote for the party not the person. If we are such a beacon of democracy how come we have an unaccountable and unelected monarchy? How come we have a unelected house of lords? How come when 1 million plus came out on the streets against the Iraq war the PM still went ahead?

Real democracy is more than just voting for a figurehead it is also about economic democracy.

[#FF0000]

It would be amazing for one of the EDL idiots to say one thing that is factually correct today. Just one.

[EDL in peace]

When a Asian attacks somebody because they are White, it is a racist attack because the victim was choosen based on skin colour.
If somebody attacks another person because of the colour of there skin, it is a racist attack. Might be for a different reason but its still racist...

[Budd1234]

No because white people have political and economic power. You didn't read what I said at all

If a Asian attacks a White because of the skin colour then the attack was racist, as the victim was choosen because of their skin colour.

[Sam_b]

When a Asian attacks somebody because they are White, it is a racist attack because the victim was choosen based on skin colour.

I'm going to need some glue to fix this broken record!

Just because you keep repeating it and ignoring the argument doesn't make it true.

[#FF0000]

If somebody attacks another person because of the colour of there skin, it is a racist attack. Might be for a different reason but its still racist...

There is anti-white prejudice but minorities don't have the political or economic power to exercise this. Racism is not the act of an individual it is a system created by a power structure. That is why there is no such thing as non-white racism.

How many times do I have to post this.

[Lyev]

Copied and pasted from a news article from the "telegraph and argus" newspaper website

A teenager who stabbed and slashed a passer-by in a racially motivated attack has been locked up for five years.
Amir Rehman, 18, shouted racial abuse as 51-year-old Ronald O’Connor walked to a shop for a loaf of bread, near the gates of Lister Park, Manning-ham, last December.
Leeds Crown Court was told Rehman shouted out: “Manningham belongs to Muslims. We don’t want whites. We rule Bradford. We are going to get you out.”
His frightened victim, Ronald O’Connor, tried to get in the shop, but Rehman ran up and stabbed him twice in the upper arm with a four to five-inch bladed knife.
The court heard that Rehman, of Lumb Lane, Manningham, was describ-ed as in a frenzy, “like a crazy man, out of control,” as he tried to slash Mr O’Connor’s face. The palms of Mr O’Connor’s hands were slashed as he tried to defend himself.
Prosecutor Richard Gioserano said: “Rehman was swinging at him over and over again with the knife. Mr O’Connor was in great pain and in fear, literally, of his life.”
Mr O’Connor ran into the shop. Police were called and Rehman was arrested outside.
Mr O’Connor had surgery at Bradford Royal Infirmary for a deep laceration to his palm. He also suffered lacerations to his fingers and two incisions to his upper arm with apparent nerve damage.
Mr Gioserano said Rehman attended Bradford Crown Court for a preliminary hearing of the case in March, but went straight from court to Pudsey, with two other men, Amar Farooq and Tanveer Hussain, where, later in the day, they committed a series of robberies on children on their way home from school.
During the street muggings some of the youngsters were threatened with being stabbed, though no knife was seen. The court heard that the defendants were clearly drunk.
Jonathan Devlin, for Rehman, said there were no explanations or excuses for the offences other than drink.
All three pleaded guilty to three robberies. Rehman pleaded guilty to wounding with intent in connection with the Manningham incident.
Hussain, 23, of Lumb Lane, Manning-ham, and Farooq, 25, of Agar Street, Girlington, were jailed for 30 months.
Rehman was sent to youth custody for a total of five years.
The judge, Recorder David Bradshaw, told Rehman he had committed an unprovoked attack on an innocent man causing “horrendous” injuries.
He said: “I am satisfied it was accompanied by racial abuse and seemed to have a racial motive.” I challenge you to find even one more coherent example of "anti-white" racism. Sorry if this sounds a tad impolite, but this "anti-white" racism stuff is so full of shit. Whites aren't a fucking minority in the UK. The majority of Britain is white. Roughly 83.6% are, according to the 2007 census. This is some 42,736,000 UK residents. Add to this white Irish (570,500: 1.27%) and white other (1,776,300: 3.5%) you have 88.37%, which is almost 90%. Practically 9 out of 10 people in the UK are white. "Anti-white" racism = fucking ridiculous. There's also not a vast, Murdoch-funded, mass media campaign against "immigrants" and Islamist extremists. This fuels the most the awful stereotyping and judgmental views of anyone vaguely "middle-eastern" looking. White people aren't constantly hounded and shouted at in the street for being "terrorists". It's Muslims that are being attacked and oppressed in the UK: most definitely not the the other around. An indication of the intelligence of "anti-Islam" and islamophobia is when we have idiots identifying Sikhs as terrorists "cuz thar hidin a bomb in tht turban!!1" or something dreadful like that, when a Sikh Dastar is obviously different to a Muslim Amamah. I think there was a case recently where a Sikh chap was on a plane, with a suitcase, and the rest of the plane refused to let the pilot take off unless he vacated the plane. This is the power of the media. To add, white people aren't forced off planes for being white. The only place "anti-white" racism exists is in your head.

[EDL in peace]

It would be amazing for one of the EDL idiots to say one thing that is factually correct today. Just one.
I could say just the same about some Revleft posters mate...

[#FF0000]

I could say just the same about some Revleft posters mate...

You could, but once again, you'd be wrong.

[EDL in peace]

There is anti-white prejudice but minorities don't have the political or economic power to exercise this. Racism is not the act of an individual it is a system created by a power structure. That is why there is no such thing as non-white racism.

How many times do I have to post this.

Eh? really?? So if I beat up a black youth, il tell the jugde ''Sorry mate, its just my anti-black prejudice getting the better of me''. C'mon guys... :confused:

[Sam_b]

Wasnt it a power share at first until Hamas flexed its muscles and seized control of the whole region?

What is the 'whole region'? Hamas is in control of Gaza.

This does not stop there being a Palestinian Assembly and an election.

[#FF0000]

Eh? really?? So if I beat up a black youth, il tell the jugde ''Sorry mate, its just my anti-black prejudice getting the better of me''. C'mon guys... :confused:

White people have political and economic power. Racism is predjudice + power. Non-white minorities do not. Thus there cannot be anti-white racism.

[Sam_b]

Eh? really?? So if I beat up a black youth, il tell the jugde ''Sorry mate, its just my anti-black prejudice getting the better of me''

Can you actually read?


No because white people have political and economic power

edit - osnap

[EDL in peace]

What is the 'whole region'? Hamas is in control of Gaza.

This does not stop there being a Palestinian Assembly and an election.
The whole region is hamas. My point is Hamas used its miltary advantage in order to secure Gaza which in my eyes, isnt very democratic

[Dimentio]

Govenments to start opposing radical islam more effectivly. Deporting or inprisoning people who spread hate or glorify jihad or sharia. Keeping extremists out. Stop the culture of appeasing Islamofascists to not appear 'racist' or insencetive

Who is appeasing them? I agree that the government is using bad arguments in order to try to calm angried or scared segments of the population, rather supporting the dichotomy between christians and muslims.

Should English-born radical muslims be evicted? What about adherents of other "radical" ideologies?

[Budd1234]

hhahahahahahaha that isn't what that means at all. It means that that asian man didn't commit a racist attack. He acted out of bigotry and prejudice but not racism because racism is something different.

Ok then, do you agree that anti-white prejudice and bigotry is prevelant in some areas of England?

If what you say is true then the independent article is saying that most predjudice attack victims are white.

[Sam_b]

The Palestinian territories are not just Gaza.

[EDL in peace]

White people have political and economic power. Racism is predjudice + power. Non-white minorities do not. Thus there cannot be anti-white racism.

So if Im attacked by a group of asians what would you call it..?

[Palingenisis]

White people have political and economic power. Racism is predjudice + power. Non-white minorities do not. Thus there cannot be anti-white racism.

White working class people living the slums of Birmingham dont have much power at all mo chara.

[Sam_b]

do you agree that anti-white prejudice and bigotry is prevelant in some areas of England?

It's not prevailent, it sometimes happens. That is, of course, the result of divide-and-rule politics and the rampant Islamophobia in the UK.

[EDL in peace]

Who is appeasing them? I agree that the government is using bad arguments in order to try to calm angried or scared segments of the population, rather supporting the dichotomy between christians and muslims.

Should English-born radical muslims be evicted? What about adherents of other "radical" ideologies?

No, thats why I proposed the option of inprisonment.

[Sam_b]

The option of imprisonment for their freedom of speech to believe Sharia to be right, of course.

[Lyev]

The whole region is hamas. My point is Hamas used its miltary advantage in order to secure Gaza which in my eyes, isnt very democraticDoes this even merit a fucking response?? Do you think some of the actions of Israel are "democratic"? Like killing innocent civilians? Or the most recent case, which is fucking abhorrent, where they attacked a flotilla of pro-Palestine activists? Explain to me how democratic that is please.

[#FF0000]

Ok then, do you agree that anti-white prejudice and bigotry is prevelant in some areas of England?

If what you say is true then the independent article is saying that most predjudice attack victims are white.

Not prevalent but I'm sure it happens.

[#FF0000]

White working class people living the slums of Birmingham dont have much power at all mo chara.

Oh, yeah that's def. true. When I say "white people have power" I don't mean all white people do. But the people who do have power are white.

[Lyev]

White working class people living the slums of Birmingham dont have much power at all mo chara.Neither will the same Indian, Pakistani, black etc. working class people "living in slums".

[Palingenisis]

Oh, yeah that's def. true. When I say "white people have power" I don't mean all white people do. But the people who do have power are white.

But its not white people in Surrey who are on the nasty end of ethnic warfare in the UK is it?

[#FF0000]

i remember someone called me a cracker once and it reminded me of those dark times in my country's history where white people like me were allowed to own land and other people. anti white racism messed up my whole day!!!!!!!!

[#FF0000]

But its not white people in Surrey who are on the nasty end of ethnic warfare in the UK is it?

I'm not sure what you're getting at here.

[Dimentio]

Govenments to start opposing radical islam more effectivly. Deporting or inprisoning people who spread hate or glorify jihad or sharia. Keeping extremists out. Stop the culture of appeasing Islamofascists to not appear 'racist' or insencetive


No, thats why I proposed the option of inprisonment.

So people should get imprisoned for having an opinion? :blink:

[Budd1234]

White people have political and economic power. Racism is predjudice + power. Non-white minorities do not. Thus there cannot be anti-white racism.

What about if a white man applies for a job, the buisness has a all-asian workforce and was owned by asians.
The white man didn't get the job because he was white and the asian owners hate whites. The asians were in control so would that be a case of anti-white racism?

[Palingenisis]

Neither will the same Indian, Pakistani, black etc. working class people "living in slums".

I didnt deny they did at all...Infact I probably have more sympathy with them than with the English "white working class"...But the reality is is that a lot of the Left automatically threats the bottom 50 or 30 per cent of the white working class as the "enemy". In order to bring Communism to England you need to understand these people and be able to relate to them.

Denying that they also suffer racial attacks is hardly the brightest way to go about that.

[Budd1234]

So people should get imprisoned for having an opinion? :blink:

You ever heard of "inciting religious hatred"?

[EDL in peace]

Does this even merit a fucking response?? Do you think some of the actions of Israel are "democratic"? Like killing innocent civilians? Or the most recent case, which is fucking abhorrent, where they attacked a flotilla of pro-Palestine activists? Explain to me how democratic that is please.
Look, I never said Israel were democratic, infact i never mentioned israel, I simply pointed out why Hamas arn't. Dont try and counter my argument with a completly irrelivent point please.

[#FF0000]

You ever heard of "inciting religious hatred"?

I'm sure you and your buddies have.

[Sam_b]

You ever heard of "inciting religious hatred"?

What was that chant in Birmingham again? Oh yes, "Allah is a paedo".

[Lyev]

Look, I never said Israel were democratic, infact i never mentioned israel, I simply pointed out why Hamas arn't. Dont try and counter my argument with a completly irrelivent point please.It's not irrelevant actually, it's wholly relevant. The plight of movements like Hamas are directly linked to the actions of Israel. It's obvious that they're linked.

[Budd1234]

I'm sure you and your buddies have.

If a white man applies for a job, the buisness has a all-asian workforce and was owned by asians.
The white man didn't get the job because he was white and the asian owners hate whites. The asians were in control so would that be a case of anti-white racism?

[EDL in peace]

So people should get imprisoned for having an opinion? :blink:
If there opinion incites violence and sharia (which itself is a terrible, sickening and barbaric law-system) then that merits a prison sentence. Even under present law, they could be charged with inciting hatred and gloryfing terrorism

[Sam_b]

How are they in political and economic control of the state?

[Sam_b]

If there opinion incites violence and sharia (which itself is a terrible, sickening and barbaric law-system) then that merits a prison sentence. Even under present law, they could be charged with inciting hatred and gloryfing terrorism

So your buddies on EDL marches chanting against Islam should be jailed as well?

[EDL in peace]

It's not irrelevant actually, it's wholly relevant. The plight of movements like Hamas are directly linked to the actions of Israel. It's obvious that they're linked.

So the military coup of the Gaza strip and the killing of fahta opposition was democratic. Its a simple yes or no mate...

[#FF0000]

If a white man applies for a job, the buisness has a all-asian workforce and was owned by asians.
The white man didn't get the job because he was white and the asian owners hate whites. The asians were in control so would that be a case of anti-white racism?

Maybe but I don't think so. There's a difference between owning a mom and pop shop and a multi billion dollar corporation.

[#FF0000]

So the military coup of the Gaza strip and the killing of fahta opposition was democratic. Its a simple yes or no mate...

Literally no state can be democratic in any meaningful sense under a capitalist system so I think this is sort of irrelevant.

[Budd1234]

I know its off-topic but the following is what somebody said in another forum and I think he has got it spot on.

"The issue with Leftists is that the whole point of them being Leftist is that is that they look at society on the grounds of a perceived victim status. Starting from the most basic concept is that the working classes are the victims of the middle and upper classes.

Moving on a national basis then they would see the north being the victim of the south and on a UK to British Isles basis the Scots, Welsh and Irish being the victims of the English. So for the likes of ethnic minorities then they perceive the likes of Muslims to be the victims of the British Empire and the US Empire by proxy that followed it.

Now there are areas of this assertion that have some level of historical truth however if you look into history then you find that things are far more complex than to simply on this basis and it is dangerous to do so. If you take the case of radical Islam in the UK and their assertion that this is down to UK/USA intervention in the ME. Al Qaeda was formed to restore the Caliphate and the entire Muslim Empire to its former borders. Hence this is not an act of reaction but an act of restoration of one of the most militarily and culturally aggressive Empires in history."

[EDL in peace]

So your buddies on EDL marches chanting against Islam should be jailed as well?
Islamic extremism... and opposing extremism in my eyes isnt insiting relihous hatred, niether is it gloryfing terrorism.

[Sam_b]

Its a simple yes or no mate...

The political situation and imperialism which is integral to the Palestinian question is not a 'simple yes or no'. You are, in fact, trying to make it a loaded one where each response to this supposed 'simple' question is one you can latch onto or political leway. It doesn't work like that.

Perhaps you give me a decent analysis of imperialism in the Middle East and popular resistance and then I might accept its as 'simple' as you put it.

[#FF0000]

Islamic extremism... and opposing extremism in my eyes isnt insiting relihous hatred, niether is it gloryfing terrorism.

What about chanting "allah is a peado"

[EDL in peace]

Literally no state can be democratic in any meaningful sense under a capitalist system so I think this is sort of irrelevant.

So thats a no? :confused:

[Sam_b]

Islamic extremism... and opposing extremism in my eyes isnt insiting relihous hatred, niether is it gloryfing terrorism.

Ducking the question. Should those shouting about the 'pakis' (as documented in the Guardian investigation on the EDL) and that "Allah is a paedo" be jailed for inciting hatred?

[#FF0000]

So thats a no? :confused:

It's a "it doesn't fucking matter"

[Budd1234]

Literally no state can be democratic in any meaningful sense under a capitalist system so I think this is sort of irrelevant.
Is it democratic yes or no?

[EDL in peace]

What about chanting "allah is a peado"
Is is inciting religous hatred? I dont attach myself to any religoin.. I could be arrested for breach of the peace i guess...

[Sam_b]

So thats a no?

As mentioned earlier:

The political situation and imperialism which is integral to the Palestinian question is not a 'simple yes or no'. You are, in fact, trying to make it a loaded one where each response to this supposed 'simple' question is one you can latch onto or political leway. It doesn't work like that.

Perhaps you give me a decent analysis of imperialism in the Middle East and popular resistance and then I might accept its as 'simple' as you put it.

[#FF0000]

Is is inciting religous hatred? I dont attach myself to any religoin.. I could be arrested for breach of the peace i guess...

inciting religious hatred doesn't mean you have to be a religious person yourself.

[Sam_b]

Is is inciting religous hatred?

duh

[Budd1234]

It's a "it doesn't fucking matter"

Just wondering, are you going to reply to the post I made a little while ago of what someone one another forum said about leftists.?

[EDL in peace]

It's a "it doesn't fucking matter"
Il take that as ''He's delibratly ignoring the question as its the other defence he has left, he knows hes wrong''

[#FF0000]

Just wondering, are you going to reply to the post I made a little while ago of what someone one another forum said about leftists.?

no because it's dumb.

[#FF0000]

Il take that as ''He's delibratly ignoring the question as its the other defence he has left, he knows hes wrong''

If no state in the world is democratic

why does it matter if Gaza/Hamas is

[Budd1234]

no because it's dumb.

Or maybe because its true. Leftists don't want to hear things that challenge their black and white view.

[Sam_b]

''He's delibratly ignoring the question as its the other defence he has left, he knows hes wrong''

As mentioned earlier again:

The political situation and imperialism which is integral to the Palestinian question is not a 'simple yes or no'. You are, in fact, trying to make it a loaded one where each response to this supposed 'simple' question is one you can latch onto or political leway. It doesn't work like that.

Perhaps you give me a decent analysis of imperialism in the Middle East and popular resistance and then I might accept its as 'simple' as you put it.

Your question to turn it to 'yes or no' is a logical trap, as despite the response you will latch onto it as 'wrong' by making it too simplified to add any weight.

[Budd1234]

It's a "it doesn't fucking matter"

You can't answer it, can you?

[#FF0000]

You can't answer it, can you?

We have. Multiple times.

[Palingenisis]

Or maybe because its true. Leftists don't want to hear things that challenge their black and white view.

Crap...I spend a lot of time arguing with people I violently disagree with.

One internet forum isnt "Leftism".

[#FF0000]

Or maybe because its true. Leftists don't want to hear things that challenge their black and white view.

No actually it's dumb because it's someone over-simplifying all of leftism as "lol victim complex"

[Devrim]

Who here thinks radical Islam is not a threat here in Britain. I guess to some of you, The 7/7 bombings mustn't have happened.

I think that radical Islam is not a threat to state power in Britain. Muslims make up less than 3% of the British population:


The vast majority of Muslims in the UK live in England and Wales (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/England_and_Wales): of 1,591,000 Muslims recorded at the 2001 Census,[27] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_the_United_Kingdom#cite_note-26) 1,536,015 were living in England (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/England) and Wales (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wales),[28] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_the_United_Kingdom#cite_note-27) where they form 3% of the population; 42,557 were living in Scotland (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scotland), forming 0.84% of the population[29] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_the_United_Kingdom#cite_note-28); and 1,943 were living in Northern Ireland (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_Ireland).[30] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_the_United_Kingdom#cite_note-29)

Of this 3% what you would call Islamic fundamentalists make up a tiny minority. Do you really think they are about to seize state power?

Of course there will continue to be terror attacks, and I wouldn't be surprised if there were even more with people like the EDL pushing more Muslims towards the Islamicist camp.


Do you know that in 1,500 schools in England, English speaking pupils are the minority.

So even if we accept your figures that would make just less that 6% of the over 25,000 schools in England. In fact a tiny minority


If a white man applies for a job, the buisness has a all-asian workforce and was owned by asians.I presume that you are somebody who went to one of these schools as you seem incapable of forming a sentence correctly in your own language.

First the tenses don't match. It suggests that the business was owned by Asians in the past, but isn't now, second, the sentence states that a business having an all-Asian (note the capital letter) work force is a consequence of a white man applying for a job, and third, the article before 'all-Asian' should be 'an' not 'a' as the word starts with a vowel sound.

Devrim

[Budd1234]

You leftists can never change your views, you always see things the same way and nothing can change that. You ignore things as it doesn't suit well with a leftist point of view.

[EDL in peace]

If no state in the world is democratic

why does it matter if Gaza/Hamas is

Because others on here seem to say we're not a democratic country, im saying were a lot more democratic that Gaza and
now your justifying Gazas actions by saying ''Uh yea, but israel is also quite bad''. If you seem so quick to demonise Israels stance on democracy then you can surley say Hamas has some kind of democratic highground otherwise sir, I must declare you a hipocrite.

Im off to bed anyway and I will reply to posts sometime tomorrow afternoon guys. Night!

[#FF0000]

You leftists can never change your views, you always see things the same way and nothing can change that. You ignore things as it doesn't suit well with a leftist point of view.

No. You're just bad at arguing.

[Palingenisis]

You leftists can never change your views, you always see things the same way and nothing can change that. You ignore things as it doesn't suit well with a leftist point of view.

Again crap.

I try very hard with own limited intelligence to understand the world.

[Budd1234]

[QUOTE=The Best Mod In Revleft History;1761847]Maybe but I don't think so.QUOTE]

Well imagine the same situation but the other way around. Would that be anti-asian racism?

[Sam_b]

You leftists can never change your views, you always see things the same way and nothing can change that. You ignore things as it doesn't suit well with a leftist point of view.


The irony coming from an EDL member that ducks questions he can't answer is huge. At least when your new account is banned members won't need to respost the same argument half a dozen times bcause you didn't read it.

EDIT:


Well imagine the same situation but the other way around. Would that be anti-asian racism?

Case in point.

[#FF0000]

Because others on here seem to say we're not a democratic country, im saying were a lot more democratic that Gaza

Who was more democratic, Mussolini or Hitler? Better question: does it even matter?


now your justifying Gazas actions by saying ''Uh yea, but israel is also quite bad''.

I don't think I said anything about Israel except for what I said to Graffic awhile back. I do think people in Palestine are justified in attacking Israel, if that's what you're talking about?


If you seem so quick to demonise Israels stance on democracy then you can surley say Hamas has some kind of democratic highground otherwise sir, I must declare you a hipocrite.

Uh I never said anything about Israel being undemocratic. Literally every country in the world is undemocratic because no state can be democratic in any meaningful sense under capitalism.

[Lyev]

"The issue with Leftists is that the whole point of them being Leftist is that is that they look at society on the grounds of a perceived victim status. Starting from the most basic concept is that the working classes are the victims of the middle and upper classes.

Moving on a national basis then they would see the north being the victim of the south and on a UK to British Isles basis the Scots, Welsh and Irish being the victims of the English. So for the likes of ethnic minorities then they perceive the likes of Muslims to be the victims of the British Empire and the US Empire by proxy that followed it.

Now there are areas of this assertion that have some level of historical truth however if you look into history then you find that things are far more complex than to simply on this basis and it is dangerous to do so. If you take the case of radical Islam in the UK and their assertion that this is down to UK/USA intervention in the ME. Al Qaeda was formed to restore the Caliphate and the entire Muslim Empire to its former borders. Hence this is not an act of reaction but an act of restoration of one of the most militarily and culturally aggressive Empires in history."What a cogent and erudite analysis, wonderful exposition pal!

[Palingenisis]

I presume that you are somebody who went to one of these schools as you seem incapable of forming a sentence correctly in your own language.

First the tenses don't match. It suggests that the business was owned by Asians in the past, but isn't now, second, the sentence states that a business having an all-Asian (note the capital letter) work force is a consequence of a white man applying for a job, and third, the article before 'all-Asian' should be 'an' not 'a' as the word starts with a vowel sound.

Devrim .

Devrim

A nasty fact is though that Irish economic immigrants were exploited more by their "own" than English bosses (I say that as an Irish nationalist ;)) and from what I have heard tell its also true in the Asian community in the UK.

[#FF0000]

Well imagine the same situation but the other way around. Would that be anti-asian racism?

Yeah but that's because white people are in control of massive amounts of capital and political power. The relationship between the applicant and the store owner doesn't exist in a void.

[Che a chara]

Because others on here seem to say we're not a democratic country, im saying were a lot more democratic that Gaza and
now your justifying Gazas actions by saying ''Uh yea, but israel is also quite bad''. If you seem so quick to demonise Israels stance on democracy then you can surley say Hamas has some kind of democratic highground otherwise sir, I must declare you a hipocrite.

Im off to bed anyway and I will reply to posts sometime tomorrow afternoon guys. Night!

Israel occupies Palestinian territory. The Palestinians are an oppressed people and Israel still continues to steal land and settle more Jewish settlements way beyond their boundaries. You saying it's not normal for their to be a more 'extreme' reaction to such human rights abuses ?

[Devrim]

A nasty fact is though that Irish economic immigrants were exploited more by their "own" than English bosses (I say that as an Irish nationalist ;)) and from what I have heard tell its also true in the Asian community in the UK.

Certainly in the Turkish/Kurdish community this is true. I know many people who work in Turkish/Kurdish owned sweatshops in East London.

Devrim

[Budd1234]

Maybe but I don't think so. There's a difference between owning a mom and pop shop and a multi billion dollar corporation.

Well imagine the same situation but the Asians believed they were superior because of their skin colour. They would then be racist. Now would you think the act of not giving the White the job based on skin colour would be racist?

[Palingenisis]

Certainly in the Turkish/Kurdish community this is true. I know many people who work in Turkish/Kurdish owned sweatshops in East London.

Devrim

Which maybe a reason why they are much more happier to employ their "own"?

[Sam_b]

facepalm.jpeg

[#FF0000]

Well imagine the same situation but the Asians believed they were superior because of their skin colour. They would then be racist. Now would you think the act of not giving the White the job based on skin colour would be racist?

If Asian people held the vast majority of the seats in parliament and owned all of the biggest companies and an overwhelming amount of resources then they could be racist. They don't, and no matter how neat someone thinks they are because of their skin color, their actions can not be racist if people of their race don't have economic or political power.

The. End.

[Budd1234]

Yeah but that's because white people are in control of massive amounts of capital and political power. The relationship between the applicant and the store owner doesn't exist in a void.

Being racist is when someone believes they are superior because of their skin colour. In the story of the white not being giving the job, the Asians belived they were better than the White. They believed they were superior because of their skin colour. Is that not being racist?

[#FF0000]

Being racist is when someone believes they are superior because of their skin colour. In the story of the white not being giving the job, the Asians belived they were better than the White. They believed they were superior because of their skin colour. Is that not being racist?

No. That is prejudice and acting with prejudice. Prejudice + power = racism.

[Devrim]

Which maybe a reason why they are much more happier to employ their "own"?

It is of course not unconnected to the fact that they can pay low wages to people who are illegals and people who don't have the English to get a different job.

Devrim

[Sam_b]

Repeatedly demolished several times. Just because you're going to keep repeating yourself and not read does not makes something verbatim.

[Palingenisis]

[QUOTE=Devrim;1761912]It is of course not unconnected to the fact that they can pay low wages to people who are illegals and people who don't have the English to get a different job.

Devrim

But also and Im thinking of Irish economic immigrants in the 50s, 60s , 70s and even 80s even though they arent "illegal" as such can be bullied much more effectively than "natives".

[Budd1234]

My last point, if the Asians believed they were superior because of their skin colour, are they racists. I'm now not asking if they commited a racist act, I'm asking if they are racist because they believe they are superior. If you again say they are not racists then according to your logic, the Asians cannot be racist unless Asians are the majority in parliment.

[Lyev]

My last point, if the Asians believed they were superior because of their skin colour, are they racists. I'm now not asking if they commited a racist act, I'm asking if they are racist because they believe they are superior. If you again say they are not racists then according to your logic, the Asians cannot be racist unless Asians are the majority in parliment.There's a difference between being prejudiced and having the resources, money, and therefore power, to act upon this prejudice. Wouldn't you agree?

[Budd1234]

Come on, someone answer.

EDIT: I see the reply untill I refreshed after this post.

[Palingenisis]

My last point, if the Asians believed they were superior because of their skin colour, are they racists. I'm now not asking if they commited a racist act, I'm asking if they are racist because they believe they are superior. If you again say they are not racists then according to your logic, the Asians cannot be racist unless Asians are the majority in parliment.

Look I tried to address you to the best of my ability...I never said that anything like that.

Can you address some of my points?

[Budd1234]

There's a difference between being prejudiced and having the resources, money, and therefore power, to act upon this prejudice. Wouldn't you agree?

I am talking about Asians being racist because they believe themselves to be superior to non-Asian. That is being racist and I would like to again point out that if the "best mod in history" answers again that the Asians are not racist then according to his logic Asians who believe themselves to be superior based on skin colour cannot be racist unless Asians hold the majority of parliment.

[Palingenisis]

Come on, someone answer.

I have already said yes its racist...But there is also racism of "ethnics" against other "ethnics" in England aswell...However there are rich white people who dont give a fuck about you as much as they dont give a fuck about the "ethnics" laughing at all this...

[Budd1234]

Will the Mod please answer. If a Asian believed himself to be superior because of his skin colour, then would he not be a racist. Forget about the White applying for the job story for now.

[#FF0000]

Will the Mod please answer. If a Asian believed himself to be superior because of his skin colour, then would he not be a racist. Forget about the White applying for the job story for now.

I answered repeatedly.

[Budd1234]

I have already said yes its racist...But there is also racism of "ethnics" against other "ethnics" in England aswell...However there are rich white people who dont give a fuck about you as much as they dont give a fuck about the "ethnics" laughing at all this...

Sorry I didn't point out that I was talking to " the best mod of revleft history" most of the time. Yes you have admitted it was racist but you must understand, I was talking to the "best mod in revleft history" most of the time. I should have pointed this out before. My bad.

[Palingenisis]

There's a difference between being prejudiced and having the resources, money, and therefore power, to act upon this prejudice. Wouldn't you agree?

The Asian capitalists just like the Irish capitalists in their day have money , resources, power and choose to exploit their own because they will accept a lot more crap..English "native" working class look for work from them are denied and can easily presume its about "racism" when its not...Its about some greedy fucker looking to make more money.

[Budd1234]

I answered repeatedly.

I have been now asking a different question. Forget about the story of the white applying for the job. I'm saying if a completely different Asian believed himself to be superior because of his skin colour would he be a racist?

[Budd1234]

One more question, IF A ASIAN BELIEVED HIMSELF TO BE SUPERIOR BECAUSE OF THEIR SKIN COLOUR, WOULD THEY NOT THEN BE RACIST. The meaning of racism is when someone believes someones skin colour would make them superior.

[Budd1234]

I'll be back tomorrow.

[Steve_j]

IF A ASIAN BELIEVED HIMSELF TO BE SUPERIOR BECAUSE OF ......

You mean like that amit singh guy? Yeah id say hes a racist piece of shit ;)

[Sam_b]

oh, great.

[Demogorgon]

Could we all drop christianity vs islam terminology. The matter is not what religion is the bloodiest, but that people should not be judged on the basis of their religion.
This cuts to the heart of it really. Those that seek division forever look for arbitrary dividing points between us, in order to woo the ignorant. People living in situations where they do not encounter many people of a certain religion may well be vulnerable to scare stories, but I defy anybody with any simple experience of knowing people from different backgrounds to tell me that you can make an assessment of a person simply through their religious background.

[Dr Mindbender]

why the fuck is the OP still unbanned?

get the gunpowder already.

[Demogorgon]

Im sure a Palistinian or North-Koran might disagree. The trust is we're not a perfect democracy but we're about as good as it get. You also got to vote for a party, you knew who was in charge...
You know, it is here that you show a simple lack of knowledge about the world around you. Even by contemporary standards Britain can hardly be called anything close to "the best". Along with France and Italy, it is definitely the worst in Western Europe. Indeed even the right wing Economist Index of Democracy shows it barely limping into "full democracy" status with Britain's score being closer to Serbia and Mongolia than to Sweden (the highest scorer). And this is from an out and out rightist source.

So "about as good as it gets" only shows ignorance.

As for you point, such as it is, about Hamas. Of course Hamas is not democratic. It does not exist in conditions where democracy (using the mainstream definition, though the term Polyarchy is more accurate) can function. Neither the West Bank nor the Gaza strip can function according to democratic norms for much the same reason none of the South African Bantustans could.

[Palingenisis]

why the fuck is the OP still unbanned?

get the gunpowder already.

Do you never talk politics with Unionists and/or Loyalists?

[Joesky]

These EDL members are simply the public relations officers and will not be convinced, I'm not sure if they're lying or just really stupid. These guys will pretend to be normal, level-headed people, they arn't. They'll call SWP members (on numbers they put up on their website for use in intimidation) and shout "We're not racist!" down the phone.
I have to disagree with what Palingenisis said about how they represent a large percent of the working class. I don't think they do, otherwise they would pull thousands upon thousands of protesters, especially when they keep going to cities and towns with large populations of racist/misguided folk. (Stoke, Bolton, Dudley) I'm surpised they haven't been to S****horpe yet lol
Because most of the working class know that you're more likely to win the lottery then get blown up by an extremist and that most will happily work alongside Muslims.
The thing that bothers me is that i doubt a single EDL member has ever took the time to go to a mosque and talk to working-class Muslims. They would see that they're too busy working hard, bringing food home for the family than to begin planning any "holy wars".

The record they're playing is definitely scratched .

[Che a chara]

Islam4UK were banned and proscribed as a terrorist organisation. Surely that itself goes to prove that whatever threat extremists pose, it's being confronted, challenged and dealt with.

The rest of the attention Muslims receive is unwarranted and just basic scaremongering.

[tradeunionsupporter]

Hello

[GreenCommunism]

Islam4UK were banned and proscribed as a terrorist organisation. Surely that itself goes to prove that whatever threat extremists pose, it's being confronted, challenged and dealt with.

yeah except for the EDL. i have a question was islam 4 uk ever found guilty of anything violent? or encouraging to violence aka holy wars. i don't think it is a legitimate organisation it's too easy to plant fake organisation to organize islamophobia. you just give fundings to a few idiots and provide some texts and they do the job for you.

that guy has the same message like 9 time over saying the same exact thing and he was responded to like a shitload of time. doublefacepalm.jpg.

[AK]

Hello
Have you actually got anything useful to contribute...?

[Palingenisis]

These EDL members are simply the public relations officers and will not be convinced, I'm not sure if they're lying or just really stupid. These guys will pretend to be normal, level-headed people, they arn't. They'll call SWP members (on numbers they put up on their website for use in intimidation) and shout "We're not racist!" down the phone.
I have to disagree with what Palingenisis said about how they represent a large percent of the working class. I don't think they do, otherwise they would pull thousands upon thousands of protesters, especially when they keep going to cities and towns with large populations of racist/misguided folk. (Stoke, Bolton, Dudley) I'm surpised they haven't been to S****horpe yet lol.

They have certainly been able to mobilize more people than either the far left or the far right....Most people are completely apathetic. These people may be public relations officiers but I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt until proven otherwise. Even if they are people who arent and who support the EDL are probably reading this therefore its important to address their arguments. They are a symptomn of various real problemns I have seen first hand in England. Also given the way that the SWP/UAF have cynically used their rise (as Antifa pointed this isnt the first time you have done it) and your general mishandling of the situation what do you expect? Shouting down telephones isnt that serious. It could be a lot worse.

Maybe we could try pointing out that pride in being English doesnt have to equal support for the "Toms" instead of coming across as contrarians who just want to attack the homeland? Maybe we also need to realise that the rise of Political Islam among alienated kids in England reflects the failure of the Left as much as the EDL does? The old swinging between focusing on "economnic" issues and completely ignoring political questions to adopting a moralistic and essentially liberal platform that could be called "hyper Political correctness" has failed.

[anuva edl]

i haven t read all the thread just the bit that calls E D L supporters racist, I Disagree not only was my ex wife asain from Muslim background i also had three darling daughters with this women , My cousins are of asain decent too and we get along Great and they agree with the E D L as my uncle was schooled in The Koran being a Muslim that is not unusual . i have read the holy book of Islam for over twenty odd years and do have an informed opinion on this religion. I also Live in an Area which has a huge Muslim community . The opposition to my marriage was massive from this community and that was 15 years ago .I also class quite a few Muslim guys as friends .I dont like Racists the B N P or any fascist Group I OPPOSE EXTREMISM in all its forms. IT JUST SO HAPPENS THE E D L IS A SINGLE ISSUE PRESSURE GROUP.
I suggest you do your homework before regurgitating falsehood. I am well educated can read and will not be called a rascist for my well balanced veiw on radical Islam, which is here in the very town i live in and the "moderate muslims" Fear a future where they gain strength within the Muslim youth

[Scorpius]

To brand all EDL members/supporters racist is a very small minded view in my opinion! Yes there are some racists in the EDL, but there will always be people who hold their own beliefs on things. It is nearly impossible to weed out these little weasles who give the rest of the EDL members a bad name, that being said it is being made clear on the EDL forums and at EDL protests that racism will not be tolerated!

The EDL consists of many different people, from all creeds, colours, religions and races. There are a growing number of hindu's and sikhs who are joining the EDL as they too are worried about the islamification of britain. There are also muslim members of the EDL, I have talked to a few myself and they too are concerned about the threat of extremist islam.

Religious extremism MUST be opposed, in whatever shape or form that is comes in! It is a means of divide and conquer that is being used on us all and I think instead of fighting and pointless name calling etc that people should unite and put their differences aside.

[Che a chara]

Ohh look, surprise, surprise.... here's the cavalry, including the obligatory muslim connection :rolleyes:

also, why the need to come on and repeat stuff that was mentioned by your mates pages ago and not debate or respond to the issues and comments by revlefters ? very suss.

[anuva edl]

Ohh look, surprise, surprise.... here's the cavalry, including the obligatory muslim connection :rolleyes:

also, why the need to come on and repeat stuff that was mentioned by your mates pages ago and not debate or respond to the issues and comments by revlefters ? very suss.

as i said earlier i have not read all the thread ,that's why i made no comment .
obligatory Muslim connection whats that all about , its up to you if you believe me or not .
The reason why i am here is i was told you believe we are all racist ,but i didnt believe this as thought indymedia were rational thinkers .So i thought i would share with you a bit of my background to show not all E D L are racist .
I actually agree with some of your protest ie gleneagles .
But after seeing your childish comments i dont think me or my family would be welcome on any of them

[Palingenisis]

as i said earlier i have not read all the thread ,that's why i made no comment .
obligatory Muslim connection whats that all about , its up to you if you believe me or not .

Look I was raised in the Church of Ireland which is a liberal Protestant Church in communion with the Church of England....But I remember when the squaddies were shot by the IRA last year and how I went and bought at bottle of champagne at the news. Isnt this all about Political Islam's support for the resistance in Iraq and Afghanistan and its disloyality to the British State as opposed to Religion per se?

[Dimentio]

Look I was raised in the Church of Ireland which is a liberal Protestant Church in communion with the Church of England....But I remember when the squaddies were shot by the IRA last year and how I went and bought at bottle of champagne at the news. Isnt this all about Political Islam's support for the resistance in Iraq and Afghanistan and its disloyality to the British State as opposed to Religion per se?

Britain and the USA doesn't have anything to do in Iraq and Afghanistan. How would you react if you was a British citizen living in the USA, and some events had led into a US occupation of your old home country?

[Scorpius]

Ohh look, surprise, surprise.... here's the cavalry, including the obligatory muslim connection :rolleyes:

Cavalry? Hardly... what's up? Do you have a problem with people who have a different out look on things coming here?

Obligatory muslim connection? It's not been said just for effect, I was just stating that the EDL have a wide range of members/supporters and to cry racist is nothing but a narrow minded view.


also, why the need to come on and repeat stuff that was mentioned by your mates pages ago and not debate or respond to the issues and comments by revlefters ? very suss.

I haven't fully read through all the pages on this thread, Also I thought it would be best to post on an existing thread on the EDL rather than start another...

I am more than willing to debate with anyone here and I will pick apart your biased views on what the EDL stand for. Now, what's suss about some people coming on here who want to engage with people of the opposite view? Yes there are massive divisions between our viewpoints but the best way to narrow those divisions is by combatting ignorance and to find commonalities in thought.

I would like to clear up the mis-conceptions that members of the EDL are football hooligans, knuckle draggers, pissheads, nazi's, facists, racists etc.

Also to add, why have I now got restricted under my name?

[Che a chara]

Cavalry? Hardly... what's the up? Do you have a problem with people who have a different out look on things coming here?

No I have no problem deating people with a diferent outlook, but when their first post is somehting that has been said a few times before on the same thread, it leads me to believe that you aren't very serious about debating, just repeating the same tired rhetoric.



I am more than willing to debate with anyone here and I will pick apart your biased views on what the EDL stand for. Now, what's suss about some people coming on here who want to engage with people of the opposite view? Yes there are massive divisions between our viewpoints but the best way to narrow those divisions is by combatting ignorance and to find commonalities in thought.

My views aren't biased, they are all inclusive and anti-islamophobic, and I can see right through the scaremongering bullshit that is spouted by many who claim that British culture is somehow being done away with, when in fact it's not being touched at all.


I would like to clear up the mis-conceptions that members of the EDL are football hooligans, knuckle draggers, pissheads, nazi's, facists, racists etc.

Good, I hope you stick around then :)

[Sasha]

I would like to clear up the mis-conceptions that members of the EDL are football hooligans, knuckle draggers, pissheads, nazi's, facists, racists etc.


must have been watching the wrong pictures than.


Also to add, why have I now got restricted under my name?

are you an revolutionary leftist? nope, so your restricted together with the capitalists, social democrats, primitivits etc etc

[Che a chara]

as i said earlier i have not read all the thread ,that's why i made no comment .
obligatory Muslim connection whats that all about , its up to you if you believe me or not .
The reason why i am here is i was told you believe we are all racist ,but i didnt believe this as thought indymedia were rational thinkers .So i thought i would share with you a bit of my background to show not all E D L are racist .
I actually agree with some of your protest ie gleneagles .
But after seeing your childish comments i dont think me or my family would be welcome on any of them

Well I found it a bit dodge that you where claiming to have a close muslim background, apologies if that's not the case, but in many situations like this you always find someone who will say "but I have many black friends" or "I have a few gay mates". It seems to be part and parcel when debating topics like this.

[Quail]

I think that there are a lot of misguided people in the EDL. When I went on a counter-demo, I ran into a number of them and actually speaking to them, they seemed disillusioned and angry and the EDL had given them an outlet for this (albeit not the most positive one). People are turning to groups like the EDL because the media is making a big deal out of a small minority of religious fundamentalists, demonising muslims and blaming them for society's ills. I think that a lot of EDL members could potentially be won over by the left, and I think that UAF goes about challenging the EDL in the wrong way really and alienates people as opposed to trying to engage them.

[Palingenisis]

Britain and the USA doesn't have anything to do in Iraq and Afghanistan. How would you react if you was a British citizen living in the USA, and some events had led into a US occupation of your old home country?

I remember clearly when I was six or seven a British soldier pointing a gun in my face and threatening while I another had his gun end shoved on my mam's cheek and kept telling her to shut the fuck up when she mumbled...They kept doing it until I pissed myself and of course that was a great laugh...What kind of monsters get off on doing that to a little girl? And of course I was white...Just imagine what they got up to in Iraq or are getting up to Afghanistan...

[anuva edl]

[
not for me it isn't its about my rights under this democracy to be the same as everyone else's.
Support for or against the wars is irrelavant to me supporting the EDL as this is a single issue group.
My position on that falls outside the remit of my involvement in the group.
But to clarify your point i disagree with our armed forces being used in "ilegal" wars.
But i also disagree with them being abused in the streets when they return.
But back to the E D L i suggest you go on a demo with them first and meet the supporters , i did , and must say i was expecting to meet racist bigots at least some , But no i didn't meet one and if i did i would leave .
i will not stand shoulder to shoulder with a known racist period.
In today's media the race card is used too often too often too quickly.

[Scorpius]

No I have no problem deating people with a diferent outlook, but when their first post is somehting that has been said a few times before on the same thread, it leads me to believe that you aren't very serious about debating, just repeating the same tired rhetoric.

Like I said, I have not fully read through this thread yet so I had no idea that what I have said is along the same lines as previously said by someone else. I am very serious about debating.





My views aren't biased, they are all inclusive and anti-islamophobic, and I can see right through the scaremongering bullshit that is spouted by many who claim that British culture is somehow being done away with, when in fact it's not being touched at all.

Yes they are biased, just as much as my views would seem biased to you.
I am not an islamophobe, that suggests that I am scared of islam when infact I just don't like the extreme aspects of it and the preachers of hate who would like nothing more than to either convert the kuffir or failing that kill them, and yes that is what is stated in the qu'ran time and time again, that the kuffirs will either be converted by force or slaughtered in the most gruesome of ways.




hope you stick around then :)

I will indeed stick around, I would like to correct some misconceptions that are often spouted by the far left.

[Joesky]

To put it simply. Your "pressure group" named the English Defence League is pursuing a single issue that is not based in any solid reality, so therefore is redundant. Islamic extremists pose no more of a threat than getting killed by a donkey. In fact getting killed by a donkey is more likely.

Please except that your half-baked arguments, which consist of strawmen, inappropriate generalisation and argumentum ad nauseam, will not convince anyone in this forum to accept you as a legitimate organisation. :thumbup1:

[Palingenisis]

But i also disagree with them being abused in the streets when they return.

If you look back I have defended the EDL from people calling you racists or fascists...However the Bristish Army (not ordinary working class English people though) are sadistic scum. They deserve abuse.

[Scorpius]

must have been watching the wrong pictures than.

Pictures? Lol, they would be the 7 or 8 pics that are used over and over again in UAF videos, I have watched these videos and those pictures are used time and time again as "proof" that the EDL are nazi's and facists.




are you an revolutionary leftist? nope, so your restricted together with the capitalists, social democrats, primitivits etc etc

Oh so because I have a different view point to you I am instantly demonised and lumped into the catagory of people that you dislike? Now that is very narrowminded to automatically lump me into a catagory after all of 2 posts.

If anyone on this site were to join up to the EDL forum there would be no "restrictions" as aren't all people equal and should be allowed freedom of speech, afterall this is a democratic country.

So what does this "Restriction" entail?

[anuva edl]

Well I found it a bit dodge that you where claiming to have a close muslim background, apologies if that's not the case, but in many situations like this you always find someone who will say "but I have many black friends" or "I have a few gay mates". It seems to be part and parcel when debating topics like this.
i understand your take on that .
there a lots of reasons to be cautious after all we know that the mainstream media has a tendency to overreact ,hence all the apologies ,retractions court case etc.
I think we all have one thing in common the politicians do not listen to us and if they do its for point scoring or votes .
but once in they revert to type ,yet we in droves still vote .
I could go on all day with whats wrong with this country but unfortunatly i have to go out

[Palingenisis]

If anyone on this site were to join up to the EDL forum there would be no "restrictions" as aren't all people equal and should be allowed freedom of speech, afterall this is a democratic country.

So what does this "Restriction" entail?

This is a forum not country...It means you cant post outside of the Opposing Idealogies forum.

[Sasha]

To put it simply. Your "pressure group" named the English Defence League is pursuing a single issue that is not based in any solid reality, so therefore is redundant. Islamic extremists pose no more of a threat than getting killed by a donkey. In fact getting killed by a donkey is more likely.


not only that but the only thing that the EDL acomplishes by their choice of "tactics" is pushing more and more muslim youngsters towards radical islam.

you are your enemies best friend.

[Steve_j]

Oh so because I have a different view point to you I am instantly demonised and lumped into the catagory of people that you dislike? Now that is very narrowminded to automatically lump me into a catagory after all of 2 posts.

As far as i am aware the EDL forum does restrict people who dont agree with the views of the EDL, just like this forum, it is a forum for us to discuss our views, and you are welcome to oppose those views, in the "opposing ideologies" subforum, on the provision you aint fash.

[Steve_j]

not only that but the only thing that the EDL acomplishes by their choice of "tactics" is pushing more and more muslim youngsters towards radical islam.

you are your enemies best friend.

This :thumbup1: ^

I would very much like a response to this from our self appointed saviours.

[Sasha]

Pictures? Lol, they would be the 7 or 8 pics that are used over and over again in UAF videos, I have watched these videos and those pictures are used time and time again as "proof" that the EDL are nazi's and facists.
who said i base myself on UAF? i'm dutch antifa, i detest UAF and their knee jerk reaction to call everybody nazi's.
your (propabilly) not, your just the bootboys for geert wilders and his racist anti-democratic corporatist ilk.
still that doesnt mean that you also propabily dont deserve an steel bar in the neck if you come rampaging through my neighboorhood shouting racist abuse at my neighboors.


Oh so because I have a different view point to you I am instantly demonised and lumped into the catagory of people that you dislike? Now that is very narrowminded to automatically lump me into a catagory after all of 2 posts.

as said, you cant blame me for expecting that there are no revolutionary leftists in the EDL, so you are restricted like any other non revolutionary leftist



So what does this "Restriction" entail?

you can only post in the opposing ideaologies sub-forum

[Scorpius]

I think we all have one thing in common the politicians do not listen to us and if they do its for point scoring or votes .
but once in they revert to type ,yet we in droves still vote .
I could go on all day with whats wrong with this country but unfortunatly i have to go out

I completely agree mate the BIG problem here is the politicians and the power hungry elite, they are using these methods of divide and rule and it is working a treat for them!

We all need to stop the ignorance and stop the name calling etc, debate is essential in my opinion and through debate I am sure we will find many more commonalities in our views.

For instance, I absoloutly hate globalism and the capitolist system... it's a destruction of identity and we should all be proud of who we are and our nationalities, we should be free to celebrate our cultures... be it english, welsh, scottish, irish, french, spanish, indian, chinese, russian etc etc etc.

[anuva edl]

just wrote a long post where did it go got a message had been moved .
I have no problems with differing view points at all my involvement in the E D L is for me a single issue movement.
my views on the wars our troops are fighting are different to a lot of others .
i have a lot of issues with our governments handling of the country and when there are demos protests ,marches about those issues i will join them if i can make it .
i also disagree with a lot of foreign policies too

[Steve_j]

double post ...

[EDL in peace]

Look I was raised in the Church of Ireland which is a liberal Protestant Church in communion with the Church of England....But I remember when the squaddies were shot by the IRA last year and how I went and bought at bottle of champagne at the news. Isnt this all about Political Islam's support for the resistance in Iraq and Afghanistan and its disloyality to the British State as opposed to Religion per se?
Mate, thats harsh and I wont have that said. Soldiers die in Afganistan and many come back maimed and wounded. There young, very brave men doing a job and making a living in extremly tough conditions. I know people in the army and if college doesnt go how I want it il be joining up to fight myself. I dont want to here any 'imperialist pawn' bollox or 'govenment terrorist' nonsence becuase celibrating the death of anybody (especialy a young soldier) is bang out of order...

[Steve_j]

it's a destruction of identity and we should all be proud of who we are and our nationalities, we should be free to celebrate our cultures... be it english, welsh, scottish, irish, french, spanish, indian, chinese, russian etc etc etc. And muslim?

[EDL in peace]

who said i base myself on UAF? i'm dutch antifa, i detest UAF and their knee jerk reaction to call everybody nazi's.
your (propabilly) not, your just the bootboys for geert wilders and his racist anti-democratic corporatist ilk.
still that doesnt mean that you also propabily dont deserve an steel bar in the neck if you come rampaging through my neighboorhood shouting racist abuse at my neighboors.



as said, you cant blame me for expecting that there are no revolutionary leftists in the EDL, so you are restricted like any other non revolutionary leftist




you can only post in the opposing ideaologies sub-forum

How is Wilders racist? Iv got no problem with ANTIFA, they dont fuck about but where are you when Choudary and co spouting his rubbish? I kind of get the feeling that the UAF, antifa and other groups aviod them simply because of thier skin coulor and are scared of being ''racist and insencitive''. Just my 2p's worth. I could be completly wrong...

[Sasha]

Mate, thats harsh and I wont have that said.[...] I dont want to here any 'imperialist pawn' bollox or 'govenment terrorist' nonsence becuase celibrating the death of anybody (especialy a young soldier) is bang out of order...


or what?

[Steve_j]

There young, very brave men doing a job and making a living in extremly tough conditions. And what about the men that are defending their country from forign invasion? To be honest i feel sorry for both, but if you want me to give a shit about one over the other just because he speaks the same laguage as me, well you fuck right off with that one.

[EDL in peace]

And muslim?

Personaly I dont think any culture here should be overly encouraged. I have my own culture, white, young british, working class so I find it hard to see the benifit of them over here... I have nothing wrong with muslims having there own culture, It just shouldnt be encouraged.

[Steve_j]

double post again??? :(

[Palingenisis]

Mate, thats harsh and I wont have that said. Soldiers die in Afganistan and many come back maimed and wounded. There young, very brave men doing a job and making a living in extremly tough conditions. I know people in the army and if college doesnt go how I want it il be joining up to fight myself. I dont want to here any 'imperialist pawn' bollox or 'govenment terrorist' nonsence becuase celibrating the death of anybody (especialy a young soldier) is bang out of order...

Yeah I realise its harsh...I have personal experiance of British soldiers as a little girl...Scroll up...Members of my family have been killed and tortured by British soldiers (most werent political but some were). The British Army isnt a conscript Army...Armies dont exist to plant flowers do they? They exist kill people.

Killing anyone should be a serious thought decision.

[EDL in peace]

or what?

Il tell you I disagree...

[Scorpius]

And muslim?

Yes and muslim, I only have a problem with religious extremism and the negative aspects of an ideology.

Religious extremists come in all shapes and forms and I think religious extremism has no place in the world. There needs to be greater tolerance of things on all sides and not tolerance on one side and virtually none on another side.

But having said that, we live in england and the english culture should ALWAYS take precedence and it should not be denied or changed through fear of offending other people.

If I was to move to another country I would be expected to adapt to their culture and to embrace it and I would if I ever chose to move to another country.

[blackwave]

Personaly I dont think any culture here should be overly encouraged. I have my own culture, white, young british, working class so I find it hard to see the benifit of them over here... I have nothing wrong with muslims having there own culture, It just shouldnt be encouraged.

As is always the case, you see what you are as the best.

[Steve_j]

Personaly I dont think any culture here should be overly encouraged. I have my own culture, white, young british, working class so I find it hard to see the benifit of them over here... I have nothing wrong with muslims having there own culture, It just shouldnt be encouraged.

And what does white culture entail? Why is your white culture any better?
And why shouldnt muslim culture be encouraged? Do you know any muslims or ever eperienced muslim culture in any way? Should christian culture be encouraged?
Sure you aint a racist?

[EDL in peace]

And what about the men that are defending their country from forign invasion? To be honest i feel sorry for both, but if you want me to give a shit about one over the other just because he speaks the same laguage as me, well you fuck right off with that one.
It isnt an invasion, its a coalition formed to defeat the taliban with afgani police/military support. You should give a shit seeing as they are fighting against the same people who planned and carried out the London bombings.

[Sasha]

How is Wilders racist? Iv got no problem with ANTIFA, they dont fuck about but where are you when Choudary and co spouting his rubbish? I kind of get the feeling that the UAF, antifa and other groups aviod them simply because of thier skin coulor and are scared of being ''racist and insencitive''. Just my 2p's worth. I could be completly wrong...

where i was? im dutch remember?

anyway, until the time they are an actual overall threat and until i have actually something i could do, util then its up to moderate muslims to combat reactionary tendencies within their own group.
just like its up to the white working class to deal with reactionary tendencies (like the EDL) in their group.
in both cases, any outside interferance only is counterproductive, wheter it is the EDL in combatting radical islam or UAF in combatting the EDL and co

[EDL in peace]

And what does white culture entail? Why is your white culture any better?
And why shouldnt muslim culture be encouraged? Do you know any muslims or ever eperienced muslim culture in any way? Should christian culture be encouraged?
Sure you aint a racist?

Im not racist to reconise I have a white culture. Race does determine culture and musical tastes.

[Sasha]

its a coalition formed to defeat the taliban with afgani police/military support.

and you'lll know us by our allies; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_alliance

[EDL in peace]

As is always the case, you see what you are as the best.
No, just the majority. This is a British country remember. Our culture should always come

[Palingenisis]

where i was? im dutch remember?

anyway, until the time they are an actual overall threat and until i have actually something i could do, util then its up to moderate muslims to combat reactionary tendencies within their own group.
just like its up to the white working class to deal with reactionary tendencies (like the EDL) in their group.
in both cases, any outside interferance only is counterproductive, wheter it is the EDL in combatting radical islam or UAF in combatting the EDL and co

Here I disagree...Seperatism is reactionary and is what brought the EDL into existance into the first place. The rise of Political Islam is as much to do with the failure of the Left as the EDL.

We should be thinking about the English working class regardless of race and religion.

[Che a chara]

Personaly I dont think any culture here should be overly encouraged. I have my own culture, white, young british, working class so I find it hard to see the benifit of them over here... I have nothing wrong with muslims having there own culture, It just shouldnt be encouraged.

What is British culture ? is it culture that was forced on the indigenous peoples of Scotland, Wales and the occupied 6 counties of Ireland ? Do you mean English culture ? If so, then that culture is not being erased or replaced, it's just that multiculturalism has become more accepted and evident in society and that is not infringing on any of the English/'British' cultures.

If you believe that your culture is being erased, can you give some examples ?

[EDL in peace]

where i was? im dutch remember?

anyway, until the time they are an actual overall threat and until i have actually something i could do, util then its up to moderate muslims to combat reactionary tendencies within their own group.
just like its up to the white working class to deal with reactionary tendencies (like the EDL) in their group.
in both cases, any outside interferance only is counterproductive, wheter it is the EDL in combatting radical islam or UAF in combatting the EDL and co
Sure you aint a racist? :cool:

[Scorpius]

And what does white culture entail? Why is your white culture any better?
And why shouldnt muslim culture be encouraged? Do you know any muslims or ever eperienced muslim culture in any way? Should christian culture be encouraged?
Sure you aint a racist?

It's got sod all to do with colour! It is English culture, there is such thing as people who are black, asian etc who are english you know and if they embrace english culture which many do then that is great :)

It also has sod all to do with religion!

It has everything to do with values.

[Palingenisis]

No, just the majority. This is a British country remember. Our culture should always come

No Muslims should intergrate and become part of the wider English culture.

[Steve_j]

Yes and muslim, I only have a problem with religious extremism and the negative aspects of an ideology.

Religious extremists come in all shapes and forms and I think religious extremism has no place in the world. There needs to be greater tolerance of things on all sides and not tolerance on one side and virtually none on another side.

Great, and i agree, but what you are talking about is a minority of the muslim population in the UK, such an extreem minority that these groups represent no one but themselves and as a result your reaction to them is feeding very intollerant attitudes against muslims in general, has the fact that you have well known facists turning up to your events not concerned you?

[Joesky]

Race does determine culture and musical tastes.
Say what?

My musical tastes are not restricted by my skin colour. :lol:

And you're suppose to be an educated college student? What are you studying?

[Sasha]

I have my own culture, white, young british, working class so I find it hard to see the benifit of them over here...


Im not racist



Main Entry: rac·ism
Pronunciation: \ˈrā-ˌsi-zəm also -ˌshi-\
Function: noun
Date: 1933
1 : a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race
2 : racial discrimination


not wanting them over here based on the fact that they are an non white culture is racism

[Che a chara]

Yes and muslim, I only have a problem with religious extremism and the negative aspects of an ideology.

Religious extremists come in all shapes and forms and I think religious extremism has no place in the world. There needs to be greater tolerance of things on all sides and not tolerance on one side and virtually none on another side.

But having said that, we live in england and the english culture should ALWAYS take precedence and it should not be denied or changed through fear of offending other people.

If I was to move to another country I would be expected to adapt to their culture and to embrace it and I would if I ever chose to move to another country.

What's your opinions on the UDL (Ulster Defence League) and their bullshit propaganda of re-writing the history of Ireland and claiming Britain as part of the north of Ireland ? The illegal occupiers of the 6 counties didn't embrace Irish culture, they wiped it out along with the Irish people who were murdered, raped and burnt. How do you stand on that issue ?

[Sasha]

No, just the majority. This is a British country remember. Our culture should always come

i suppose you wanted to say "first" there at the end?

enjoy being banned

[EDL in peace]

What is British culture ? is it culture that was forced on the indigenous peoples of Scotland, Wales and the occupied 6 counties of Ireland ? Do you mean English culture ? If so, then that culture is not being erased or replaced, it's just that multiculturalism has become more accepted and evident in society and that is not infringing on any of the English/'British' cultures.

If you believe that your culture is being erased, can you give some examples ?
My problem is when I walk around Sheffield and I see signs up saying 'Celibrate India week' or 'Chinese cultural festival' and no-one seems to put England/Britain into the spotlight. Maybe so many people would be more accepting if our culture was celibrated just once.

In my eyes, multiculturalism just puts up boundarys and excludes large populations of the Public. Celibrating being Middle Eastern or black culture is just the same as celibrating White culture. It should not be encouraged...

[Palingenisis]

Its more complex than that...I have one cousin who is a militant Loyalist and another who is in Republican Sinn Fein (who are psycho by even my standards)...Yet biologically there is fuck all difference between them. Saying this is about Racial Nationalism gets us nowhere.

[Scorpius]

What's your opinions on the UDL (Ulster Defence League) and their bullshit propaganda of re-writing the history of Ireland and claiming Britain as part of the north of Ireland ? The illegal occupiers of the 6 counties didn't embrace Irish culture, they wiped it out along with the Irish people who were murdered, raped and burnt. How do you stand on that issue ?

I don't have a stance on that issue and I know very little about the troubles in northen ireland.

I am a member of the EDL, not the UDL...

[#FF0000]

My problem is when I walk around Sheffield and I see signs up saying 'Celibrate India week' or 'Chinese cultural festival' and no-one seems to put England/Britain into the spotlight. Maybe so many people would be more accepting if our culture was celibrated just once.

Yeah man because we all know how nothing in Britain represents British culture hurf durf

[anuva edl]

is there no Muslims in any of those countries then?

[#FF0000]

is there no Muslims in any of those countries then?

what are you talking about

[Che a chara]

My problem is when I walk around Sheffield and I see signs up saying 'Celibrate India week' or 'Chinese cultural festival' and no-one seems to put England/Britain into the spotlight. Maybe so many people would be more accepting if our culture was celibrated just once.

In my eyes, multiculturalism just puts up boundarys and excludes large populations of the Public. Celibrating being Middle Eastern or black culture is just the same as celibrating White culture. It should not be encouraged...

Celebrating diversity is a beautiful thing my friend. If you want to make ethnic minorities feel welcome, then you have to accept them and identify with their culture and of course celebrate it, not alienate them.

British/English culture is celebrated on a daily basis. It's practised every second of the day, so how you feel it is under threat is beyond me.

[anuva edl]

Yeah man because we all know how nothing in Britain represents British culture hurf durf
thing is there i agree, but there is English ,Scotch ,Welsh and even Cornish cultures within this land of Britain

[#FF0000]

Trashed off-topic stuff. Bring up complaints about bans in the Member's Forum, not this thread.

[#FF0000]

thing is there i agree, but there is English ,Scotch ,Welsh and even Cornish cultures within this land of Britain

Yeah. I'm saying it's dumb to complain about "celebrate india week" and there not being a "British culture week" because British culture is a constant and have a special week to celebrate it is redundant.

[Scorpius]

Trashed off-topic stuff. Bring up complaints about bans in the Member's Forum, not this thread.

How do "restricted" posters such as myself complain about bans etc then?

[#FF0000]

How do "restricted" posters such as myself complain about bans etc then?

Think you'd have to PM the mod/admin that banned the user. I'm sure Palingenisis is going to post a thread anyway.

[Dr Mindbender]

Do you never talk politics with Unionists and/or Loyalists?

For the nth time, loyalists are not analogous to the EDL. While they may resonate politically with each other in some ways, they are wholly different entities and its dishonest to pretend otherwise.

the continued parroting of this line reeks of ignorance to the situation in the 6 counties and does a diservice to both that and the fight against fascism in mainland UK.

[#FF0000]

Here is what I say about the EDL:

"Radical Islam" is a bad thing but it is literally no threat whatsoever and the EDL's heavy handed, sensationalist, and very nationalist rhetoric at best gives the impression that the members hate all brown people, and at worst single out people for ethnic or religious hatred. I don't think most people in the EDL do this intentionally, but I do think the EDL has a good number of racist members (whether they acknowledge their racism or not)

[Palingenisis]

For the nth time, loyalists are not analogous to the EDL.

the continued parroting of this line reeks of ignorance to the situation in the 6 counties and does a diservice to both that and the fight against fascism in mainland UK.

Huh? The EDL are exactly fascist as such and have more than a lot in common with the Loyalists I know. Infact Loyalism is closer to Fascism than the EDL.

[Steve_j]

Scorpius, you seem a little more sensible than the others, this is working on the premis that extreemist islam is this alarming threat that you the EDL thinks it is, can you please tell me how the EDL is combating it?

[Dr Mindbender]

My problem is when I walk around Sheffield and I see signs up saying 'Celibrate India week' or 'Chinese cultural festival' and no-one seems to put England/Britain into the spotlight. Maybe so many people would be more accepting if our culture was celibrated just once.

In my eyes, multiculturalism just puts up boundarys and excludes large populations of the Public. Celibrating being Middle Eastern or black culture is just the same as celibrating White culture. It should not be encouraged...

its not that middle eastern or black culture shouldnt be celebrated, its just that you need to learn the difference in what it means to be a minority as opposed to a member of an indigneous privileged majority.

A 'white' culture celebration within a predominately white country would be little more than a circle jerk with the inevitable beer fuelled xenophobia and white power rock bands to drum up chauvinist sentiment and the superiority complexes of the indigenous majority. Of course i dont expect you to understand that because you dont experience the negative baggage that comes with being an immigrant such as homesickness, longing for loved ones and the alienation and hostility of being in a generally unwelcoming, paranoid land.

If chinese or indian people want a festival what fucking business is it of yours anyway? If you want to be a dick about it dont go. All the more food for the rest of us, amirite?

[Scorpius]

Here is what I say about the EDL:

"Radical Islam" is a bad thing but it is literally no threat whatsoever

Yes radical islam is a bad thing but it is a threat, I will now quote some verses from the Qu'ran, most muslims truely believe and follow what is said in the Qu'ran and it is every good muslims duty to live by the words of the Qu'ran... ok here are some verses...

"Slay them wherever you find them...Idolatry is worse than carnage...Fight against them until idolatry is no more and God's religion reigns supreme." (Surah 2:190-)

"The only true faith in God's sight is Islam." (Surah 3:19)

"Believers, do not make friends with any but your own people...They desire nothing but your ruin....You believe in the entire Book...When they meet you they say: 'We, too, are believers.' But when alone, they bite their finger-tips with rage." (Surah 3:118, 119)

Seek out your enemies relentlessly." (Surah 4:103-)

"Believers, take neither Jews nor Christians for your friends." (Surah 5:51)

"...make war on the leaders of unbelief...Make war on them: God will chastise them at your hands and humble them. He will grant you victory over them..." (Surah 9:12-)



and the EDL's heavy handed, sensationalist, and very nationalist rhetoric at best gives the impression that the members hate all brown people, and at worst single out people for ethnic or religious hatred

Heavy handed? we are a peacefull protest group, granted there are some idiots in the EDL who get violent and it is frowned upon.
Hate all brown people? What rubbish! We have people of all colours and races in the EDL, we have numerous hindu and sikh brothers within our membership.


I dont think most people in the EDL do this intentionally, but I do think the EDL has a good number of racist members (whether they acknowledge their racism or not)

There are racists in the EDL and the EDL leadership and other members are in the process of weeding out these racists, there is no place for racism in the EDL as we have many members who are from other races.

[anuva edl]

Yeah. I'm saying it's dumb to complain about "celebrate india week" and there not being a "British culture week" because British culture is a constant and have a special week to celebrate it is redundant.
i wouldn't go as far as dumb, i think that his perception of his identity as British for him means equality and its in that vein that he sees an India Week without a reciprocal British Week possibly unfair.
But there is also growing unrest in all walks of life on this island indeed in this world at the increasing political strides towards what in my view is a one world government and that in my opinion will strip all identities .
So personally for me keeping hold of national ,cultural and spiritual identity is the first tool we should use against the capitalist self serving globalist.

[Scorpius]

But there is also growing unrest in all walks of life on this island indeed in this world at the increasing political strides towards what in my view is a one world government and that in my opinion will strip all identities .
So personally for me keeping hold of national ,cultural and spiritual identity is the first tool we should use against the capitalist self serving globalist.

I completely agree with you mate!

The globalist elite should be our common enemy, the left and right should unite against these scum... I hate the idea of no national identity, whatever nationality you are, you should embrace and celebrate that culture, diversity is great aslong as it doesn't overshadow the overall culture of the country in question.

[Steve_j]

Yes radical islam is a bad thing but it is a threat, I will now quote some verses from the Qu'ran, most muslims truely believe and follow what is said in the Qu'ran and it is every good muslims duty to live by the words of the Qu'ran... ok here are some verses...

So you know what most muslims think?

Anyway here are some more.



Leviticus 20:9
If anyone curses his father or mother, he must be put to death.

20:10 If a man commits adultery with another man’s wife—with the wife of his neighbor—both the adulterer and the adulteress must be put to death.

20:13 If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death.

Deuteronomy 22:20-1 If, however, the charge is true and no proof of the girl’s virginity can be found, she shall be brought to the door of her father’s house and there the men of her town shall stone her to death. She has done a disgraceful thing in Israel by being promiscuous while still in her father’s house.


Exodus 35:2
For six days, work is to be done, but the seventh day shall be your holy day, a Sabbath of rest to the LORD. Whoever does any work on it must be put to death.



Deuteronomy 7:1-2 When the Lord your God brings you into the land you are entering to possess and drives out before you many nations . . . then you must destroy them totally. Make no treaty with them, and show them no mercy.

20:10-17 When you march up to attack a city, make its people an offer of peace. If they accept and open their gates, all the people in it shall be subject to forced labor and shall work for you. If they refuse to make peace and they engage you in battle, lay siege to that city. When the Lord your God delivers it into your hand, put to the sword all the men in it. As for the women, the children, the livestock and everything else in the city, you may take these as plunder for yourselves. . . . This is how you are to treat all the cities that are at a distance from you and do not belong to the nations nearby.
However, in the cities of the nations the Lord your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes. Completely destroy them—the Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites—as the Lord your God has commanded you.





Ephesians 5:22-24 Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything. Exodus 21:20-21 If a man beats his male or female slave with a rod and the slave dies as a direct result, he must be punished, but he is not to be punished if the slave gets up after a day or two, since the slave is his property. 1 Peter 2:13 Submit yourselves for the Lord’s sake to every authority instituted among men. 2:18 Slaves, submit yourselves to your masters with all respect, not only to those who are good and considerate, but also to those who are harsh.
Leviticus 25:44-45
Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property. From the bible i must add.





Heavy handed? we are a peacefull protest group, granted there are some idiots in the EDL who get violent and it is frowned upon.
Some, id say its a mjority, (from what i have seen)


Hate all brown people? What rubbish! We have people of all colours and races in the EDL, we have numerous hindu and sikh brothers within our membership.

You know the Nazis also had blacks and hindus and sikhs in their ranks, it means shit all.


There are racists in the EDL and the EDL leadership and other members are in the process of weeding out these racists, there is no place for racism in the EDL as we have many members who are from other races.

Well perhaps you can start by weeding out your leadership, making the organisation democratic, and if you are truly serious about weeding out racists and facists would you consider allowing radical leftist/antifacists into your demos to deal with anyone using racist or xenophobic language?

[Che a chara]

i wouldn't go as far as dumb, i think that his perception of his identity as British for him means equality and its in that vein that he sees an India Week without a reciprocal British Week possibly unfair.
But there is also growing unrest in all walks of life on this island indeed in this world at the increasing political strides towards what in my view is a one world government and that in my opinion will strip all identities .
So personally for me keeping hold of national ,cultural and spiritual identity is the first tool we should use against the capitalist self serving globalist.

What's your opinion on socialism ?

[#FF0000]

words

Every single religion has a book full of dumb shit that nobody believes and contradicts literally everything else that religion states. To Islam's credit it's got tons of scholarship and secondary texts to put the Koran and its passages in context, which is wholly ignored by people who want to be convinced that Islam is a violent religion.

Historically, the meme of the bloodthirsty Muslim is a myth. Muslim kingdoms throughout the middle ages were, by far, more progressive and tolerant than European kingdoms (Though they were, like every other kingdom from the beginning of time, spread by the sword. And further, what we know as "radical islam" never existed in any real capacity until the 1950's.

So, yeah, historically, Islam isn't any more violent than any other religion until you get into the second half of the 20th century, when Radical Islam was able to come about thanks to Western powers destabilizing Middle Eastern countries to get access to resources and markets.

Also, fundamentalists are a small minority of any religious group, and muslims are already a tiny minority in Britain. How do you expect such a small group to be able to take so much power? Do you think all muslims are a threat?


Heavy handed? we are a peacefull protest group, granted there are some idiots in the EDL who get violent and it is frowned upon.
Hate all brown people? What rubbish! We have people of all colours and races in the EDL, we have numerous hindu and sikh brothers within our membership.

Hindus and Sikhs don't have a great history with muslims. It isn't uncommon for Indians to be strongly prejudiced against Arabs in general, so that doesn't really help you out at all.

And it's not just your tactics that are heavy handed. It's the rhetoric. The EDL acts like muslims extremists are hiding around every corner and that they're on the verge of blowing up the entire country, which is absolute nonsense. Tell me, why is the panic over muslims any different from the panic of Irish immigrants? Or Chinese, Mexican, German, and Irish immigrants in the U.S.?


There are racists in the EDL and the EDL leadership and other members are in the process of weeding out these racists, there is no place for racism in the EDL as we have many members who are from other races.

One doesn't have to declare themselves racist to have racist attitudes that they don't notice.

[#FF0000]

i wouldn't go as far as dumb, i think that his perception of his identity as British for him means equality and its in that vein that he sees an India Week without a reciprocal British Week possibly unfair.

Yeah, and that's nonsense, because every week is effectively British week in Britain.


But there is also growing unrest in all walks of life on this island indeed in this world at the increasing political strides towards what in my view is a one world government and that in my opinion will strip all identities .
So personally for me keeping hold of national ,cultural and spiritual identity is the first tool we should use against the capitalist self serving globalist.

This is the exact rhetoric we hear in the states from Third Party and National Socialist Movement folks.

[Scorpius]

So you know what most muslims think? No I don't know what they think, but I know what they are taught to believe, it is their DUTY to live by what is said in the Qu'ran, if they didn't then they would be hypocrites to their own faith!


Anyway here are some more.
From the bible i must add.

Yes the bible has it's fair share of horrific quotes too, I never said it doesn't... just as well I am not a christian nor am I religious. I'd go as far as saying that I am anti religious and I see it as a means of control and division.






Some, id say its a mjority, (from what i have seen)

That is your opinion and you are welcome to it, but take it from somebody who has been on numerous EDL marches and I have not once encountered any violence or racism, yes I have seen some scuffles in self defence by a very small number of members.




you know the Nazis also had blacks and hindus and sikhs in their ranks, it means shit all.

That is a completely redundant comment, we are not the Nazi's and we do not hold any Nazi ideology. We have a large number of jewish members who we stand side to side with, also the Nazi's were among the worst of scum throughout history so how can you begin to compare the EDL to Nazi's I don't know... has there been an EDL holocaust? Nope... the Nazi's killed millions of jews!




well perhaps you can start by weeding out your leadership, making the organisation democratic, and if you are truly serious about weeding out racists and facists would you consider allowing radical leftist/antifacists into your demos to deal with anyone using racist or xenophobic language?

There's nothing wrong with the EDL leadership, the organisation is democratic.

Anyone is welcome to attend our demo's, if you want to protest against militant/extremist islam... Also we have stewards and one of their roles is to confront people who are using racist language.

[#FF0000]

No I don't know what they think, but I know what they are taught to believe, it is their DUTY to live by what is said in the Qu'ran, if they didn't then they would be hypocrites to their own faith!

You know that the Koran says that violence is only acceptable in the case of self-defense, right. And that the vast, vast, vast majority of Muslim clerics are strictly against "Radical Islam's" idea of "Jihadism" right

[anuva edl]

What's your opinion on socialism ?
not sure i have a fixed opinion to be honest i read a lot of differing views but i do know i that i certainly disagree with hitlers nationalist version

[#FF0000]

not sure i have a fixed opinion to be honest i read a lot of differing views but i do know i that i certainly disagree with hitlers nationalist version

Really? Because this nonsense:


So personally for me keeping hold of national ,cultural and spiritual identity is the first tool we should use against the capitalist self serving globalist

Sounds an awful lot like what every neo-nazi and third-positionist group in the world says. So, if you don't like Hitler, you should probably re-evaluate your premise here because what you were just on about isn't far from what his modern worshipers say.

[Sasha]

and i welcome mister godwin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law) for his long expected arival in this thread

[#FF0000]

and i welcome mister godwin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law) for his long expected arival in this thread

Oh, please, Godwin's been in and out since the thread started.

[Sasha]

yeah i know :lol:

[Quail]

That is your opinion and you are welcome to it, but take it from somebody who has been on numerous EDL marches and I have not once encountered any violence or racism, yes I have seen some scuffles in self defence by a very small number of members.

While a lot of members probably don't want to get violent, from what I've seen, a hell of a lot of them just seem to want a fight. I wouldn't exactly call throwing beer glasses at people non-violent.



That is a completely redundant comment, we are not the Nazi's and we do not hold any Nazi ideology. We have a large number of jewish members who we stand side to side with, also the Nazi's were among the worst of scum throughout history so how can you begin to compare the EDL to Nazi's I don't know... has there been an EDL holocaust? Nope... the Nazi's killed millions of jews!

It was a valid point because having members of different races in your organisation doesn't automatically mean that it is a non-racist, tolerant organisation.

[Steve_j]

No I don't know what they think, but I know what they are taught to believe, it is their DUTY to live by what is said in the Qu'ran, if they didn't then they would be hypocrites to their own faith!



Yes the bible has it's fair share of horrific quotes too, I never said it doesn't... just as well I am not a christian nor am I religious. I'd go as far as saying that I am anti religious and I see it as a means of control and division.

So why are you highlighting one and not the other?


That is your opinion and you are welcome to it, but take it from somebody who has been on numerous EDL marches and I have not once encountered any violence or racism, yes I have seen some scuffles in self defence by a very small number of members.

See no evil hear no evil? Serously, tell me two that you have been on where there have seen no violence or racism?


That is a completely redundant comment..... so how can you begin to compare the EDL to Nazi's I don't know... has there been an EDL holocaust? Nope... the Nazi's killed millions of jews!

I didnt compare the two, i pointed out the fact that just because you have black sikh and hindu members does not mean it is a non racist organisation (and used the nazis as a good example of a racist organisation who also had such soldiers).


There's nothing wrong with the EDL leadership, the organisation is democratic.

So where do you vote to recall the leadership?


Also we have stewards and one of their roles is to confront people who are using racist language.

Confront in which manner? I have been inside the EDL demos, wintnessed racism and i have never seen anyone, stewards included, confront them.

[anuva edl]

Yeah, and that's nonsense, because every week is effectively British week in Britain.



This is the exact rhetoric we hear in the states from Third Party and National Socialist Movement folks.

I disagree with National Socialist vehemently . My Grandparents fought against it and i will never stand with anything that comes close to it keeping your identity is an all inclusive as i have said before my family is diverse if you notice my post did not single out any group .If the two parties mentioned above come close to that then its not for me

[Scorpius]

While a lot of members probably don't want to get violent, from what I've seen, a hell of a lot of them just seem to want a fight. I wouldn't exactly call throwing beer glasses at people non-violent.

I've never seen that and I have been on a lot of EDL demo's, what I have seen though is UAF and other affiliated organisation holding counter demo's and throwing bottles and bricks at EDL members.

Also I have witnessed first hand, young muslim gangs chasing EDL members with knives, machettes, broken glass bottles. It's funny how you never hear about any of that violence in the mainstream media!



it was a valid point because having members of different races in your organisation doesn't automatically mean that it is a non-racist, tolerant organisation.

But we are not a racist group! But you can call racists at us all you like, that's your opinion... but it doesn't make it so.

[#FF0000]

But we are not a racist group! But you can call racists at us all you like, that's your opinion... but it doesn't make it so.

Racism within the EDL is well-documented, and even if you aren't using slurs, your group acts as if muslim extremists are on the verge of taking over and destroying "British culture" or something.

[anuva edl]

So why are you highlighting one and not the other?



See no evil hear no evil? Serously, tell me two that you have been on where there have seen no violence or racism?



I didnt compare the two, i pointed out the fact that just because you have black sikh and hindu members does not mean it is a non racist organisation (and used the nazis as a good example of a racist organisation who also had such soldiers).



So where do you vote to recall the leadership?



Confront in which manner? I have been inside the EDL demos, wintnessed racism and i have never seen anyone, stewards included, confront them.
i have seen them that's why i stayed if they hadn't i would have walked there and then

[Steve_j]

what I have seen though is UAF and other affiliated organisation holding counter demo's and throwing bottles and bricks at EDL members

UAF throwing bottles and bricks? I actually had a chuckle about that one :lol:

[Scorpius]

Racism within the EDL is well-documented, and even if you aren't using slurs, your group acts as if muslim extremists are on the verge of taking over and destroying "British culture" or something.

The minority of racism within the EDL is overly documented to make it look like it's the majority when that couldn't be further from the truth.

Like I have previously said, the EDL leadership and members are in the process of weeding out this minority, racism is not welcome.

I invite ANYONE to come and join the EDL forums, join in discussion and you will see that we are not racist. There are many posts in threads on our forum which highlight the fact that racism is not welcome in the EDL.

[Scorpius]

UAF throwing bottles and bricks? I actually had a chuckle about that one :lol:

Yes and what is funny about that? We don't need to be hit by things being thrown at us... all we want to do is peacefully protest.

[#FF0000]

The minority of racism within the EDL is overly documented to make it look like it's the majority when that couldn't be further from the truth.

Do you think the same is true with Islam, in regard to extremism being a vast minority within the faith?


Like I have previously said, the EDL leadership and members are in the process of weeding out this minority, racism is not welcome.

Racist attitudes can be latent, though.


I invite ANYONE to come and join the EDL forums, join in discussion and you will see that we are not racism. There are many posts in threads on our forum which highlight the fact that racism is not welcome in the EDL.

Why do that though, when the latent racist attitudes of the group are right there in their sensationalist rhetoric about the imminent threat posed by a tiny minority of a tiny minority?

[Sasha]

Yes and what is funny about that? We don't need to be hit by things being thrown at us... all we want to do is peacefully protest.

i think he was refering to the fact that we consider UAF useless midle class hippy wankers, who wouldt know how to trow an bottle (let alone a brick) if their lives depended on it.

[Scorpius]

i think he was refering to the fact that we consider UAF useless midle class hippy wankers, who wouldt know how to trow an bottle (let alone a brick) if their lives depended on it.

lmao, yeah that is very true!

[#FF0000]

Yes and what is funny about that? We don't need to be hit by things being thrown at us... all we want to do is peacefully protest.

I remember someone earlier in this thread mentioned the muslim kids attacking EDL members and it was revealed that it happened after EDL folks were bricking and bottling a mosque. The irony.

[Che a chara]

the EDL attracts racists, that there is no doubt. It's open policy of opposing just one 'extremist' group, which in turn alienates and causes division and suspicion on all whole faith makes it easy for racists to join your ranks and it's not hard to then see why the group is labelled as islamophobic. Even given during EDL protests there is Israel flags which gives the impression of more anti-muslim policy as an opposition to the Paletsinans right to defend and free it's occupied land. What has that got to do with defending England or apparent British culture ?

There is more dangers in society which attacks and lessens your way of living than just extreme islam. There is capitalism and worldwide imperialist polices which effects the working class more than national identity. To not oppose these as a 'defence for England' (:rolleyes:) is pretty damning and definitely a touch of xenophobia.

[anuva edl]

Do you think the same is true with Islam, in regard to extremism being a vast minority within the faith?



Racist attitudes can be latent, though.



Why do that though, when the latent racist attitudes of the group are right there in their sensationalist rhetoric about the imminent threat posed by a tiny minority of a tiny minority?
be in no doubt a tiny minority can be destructive 9/11 is an instance of this minorities intents lets not stray the issue that is exactly the reason who knows where the next one succeeds in taking innocent lives and i include Muslims as the extremist are killing innocent Muslims too

[Scorpius]

be in no doubt a tiny minority can be destructive 9/11 is an instance of this minorities intents lets not stray the issue that is exactly the reason who knows where the next one succeeds in taking innocent lives and i include Muslims as the extremist are killing innocent Muslims too

You've hit the nail on the head here mate.

All it takes is an extremist minority to do such acts of evil, the thing being it started off as a minority pre 9/11 and has continued to grow ever since, I'd say the tipping point is coming and the so called "minority" will cease to be called that.

[anuva edl]

it always starts with a minority of one then someone believes them and so on and so forth a modern example would be Hitler it didn't take him long too get his vile ideology as the dominant force in Europe and we all know how that ended

[anuva edl]

Well im off to bed now enjoyed the chat .
dont ban me would like to chat again sometime

[Quail]

I've never seen that and I have been on a lot of EDL demo's, what I have seen though is UAF and other affiliated organisation holding counter demo's and throwing bottles and bricks at EDL members.
It's funny how EDL members always deny that these things happen, because when I went to a counter demo I didn't have to look too far to see the EDL starting fights and throwing glass. People I know have reported a similar thing.



Also I have witnessed first hand, young muslim gangs chasing EDL members with knives, machettes, broken glass bottles. It's funny how you never hear about any of that violence in the mainstream media!
I too have seen the local Asian youths on the streets at/after EDL demos, but can you really blame them? The EDL says that it is against radical Islam, but a lot of the slogans used appear to be against muslims in general. I'm not surprised that they want to defend themselves.


But we are not a racist group! But you can call racists at us all you like, that's your opinion... but it doesn't make it so.
Do you not question why your group attracts so many racists if it doesn't have an underlying racist element?

[Scorpius]

Well im off to bed now enjoyed the chat .
dont ban me would like to chat again sometime

Yeah ditto!

My eyes are strained, I'm off to watch shaun of the dead :P

[Lyev]

You've hit the nail on the head here mate.

All it takes is an extremist minority to do such acts of evil, the thing being it started off as a minority pre 9/11 and has continued to grow ever since, I'd say the tipping point is coming and the so called "minority" will cease to be called that.It's going to take an awfully long time for Muslims to cease to be a minority in the UK. As I have posted three times already:
Please explain, quite clearly, the theory of the "Islamification" of Europe, and why exactly you think Muslims are "invading" Britain or some intolerable Daily Mail propaganda like that. This is bearing in mind that the Muslim population of the UK is only 2.8%, which is just under 1.6 million. This is against an overwhelming 71.8% Christians, which is some 41 million people. How an earth -- even if Islam did actually believe in doing so -- are they going to implement Sharia law, with such a small population, against well over a third of Christians? Thanks for a reply in advance.
Yes, I can't believe I keep on having to go over this. It's the whole reason why you're a bigot, racist, or whatever you want to call it. Of the minority of Muslims in Britain (1.6 million, roughly) how many of them do you think are "extremists" and want to implement worldwide Sharia law? 1.6 million? Think again; it's probably about 16.
I challenge you to find even one more coherent example of "anti-white" racism. Sorry if this sounds a tad impolite, but this "anti-white" racism stuff is so full of shit. Whites aren't a fucking minority in the UK. The majority of Britain is white. Roughly 83.6% are, according to the 2007 census. This is some 42,736,000 UK residents. Add to this white Irish (570,500: 1.27%) and white other (1,776,300: 3.5%) you have 88.37%, which is almost 90%. Practically 9 out of 10 people in the UK are white. "Anti-white" racism = fucking ridiculous.

[Joesky]

I find it depressing that these ultra-nationalist fools from the EDL will happily sing

"Rule Britannia!
Britannia rule the waves
Britons never, never, never shall be slaves.
Rule Britannia!
Britannia rule the waves.
Britons never, never, never shall be slaves."

We're all slaves to the wage brothers, we're all slaves.

[Che a chara]

I find it depressing that these ultra-nationalist fools from the EDL will happily sing

"Rule Britannia!
Britannia rule the waves
Britons never, never, never shall be slaves.
Rule Britannia!
Britannia rule the waves.
Britons never, never, never shall be slaves."

We're all slaves to the wage brothers, we're all slaves.

Also I think this might be an appropriate time to bring up the English national anthem (god save the queen) and to verse 6's content of anti-scottish pish:

"Lord grant that Marshal Wade
May by thy mighty aid
Victory bring
May he sedition hush
And like a torrent rush
Rebellious Scots to crush
God save the King"

Seems contradictory on so many levels from unionists/loyalists/nationalists to sing it.

[#FF0000]

You've hit the nail on the head here mate.

All it takes is an extremist minority to do such acts of evil, the thing being it started off as a minority pre 9/11 and has continued to grow ever since, I'd say the tipping point is coming and the so called "minority" will cease to be called that.

Of course but terrorists are most definitely not all Muslims. So, then, why focus specifically on Muslim terrorists?

And, secondly, carrying out acts of terrorism doesn't = power. Again, if you're worried about terrorism, then there's no reason to go after Muslim terrorists, specifically.

You see, there's no way to look at someone and say "They're a Muslim extremist, and not a moderate". So, when you hype up the issue of Muslim extremists somehow coming to power in Britain, you're not just going to have people attacking or singling out extremists. The stupid, heavy-handed, uber-nationalist and xenophobic rhetoric alienates people. Whether the EDL realizes it or not, they come across as bigoted and racist because of the us and them message, and their focus on Muslims.

If you were honestly afraid of terrorism, or muslim extremists, then there are options that don't alienate Muslims and Arabs that aren't extremists. Such as opposing imperialism in the Middle East, which has directly put religious fundamentalists in power for the past 60 years.

[SpineyNorman]

All they said about the unions was why do they support and fund a violent and hateful group like the UAF. The EDL are about as pro-working class as it gets, they are the working class! Im all for unions btw...

Bullshit. And UAF violent and hateful? Fuck off. It's full of middle class students and ex-hippies, you've not half fallen for the party line here, haven't you? Nobody other than a frothing mouth McCarthyite would believe this to be true: "However it would seem that these unions have become more powerful, more influential and more militant in the political sphere, this is where vested interests infringe upon a democratic political platform, so much so that democracy seems to be ebbing away right before our eyes and its replacement.........COMMUNISM!!!!" particularly given the anti-trade union laws and decline in membership since the Thatcher era. I remember when unions had real influence, I was around during the miners' strike (it was loyalist scum like you that supported Thatchers war on the working class by the way).

"Great Britain doesn’t do Communism, it never has, yet Communists are afforded more influence and more power as the Labour party look to fund its upcoming election campaign. This is a sad reflection of the corrupt political climate we live in here in the UK." Communism is profoundly British. Communists and anarchists were here fighting for the working class 150 years ago, many of the "freedoms" the EDL claim to defend against "teh muzzies" were won by communists. How dare a politically bankrupt group of Johnny come latelys tell us what is and isn't British? The fucking cheek. Progress in terms of the emancipation of the working class always comes from the left, always has done.

"It is no secret that the Labour party is affiliated to Unite, recently the Labour party have been exposed for taking monies from this militant Union."

Exposed? The Labour party was set up by the unions, it's no secret. I'm no fan of the Labour party, but I'd rather have a party that is funded by, and therefore acountable to, organisations that are democratically controlled by workers than parties like the BNP, UKIP, the TORIES, English Democrats, that are funded by wealthy businessmen whose interests are in direct conflict with mine.

And I'd love to know if you believe the garbled conspiracy theory about people giving roman salutes on EDL demos being UAF.

It all comes from the EDL's own article by the way, you can look at it here: http: // www . englishdefenceleague . org / index . php ? option=com_content&view=article&id=181:labour-partys-affiliation-to-union-criminality&catid=42:feature-stories

(take out spaces, sorry, not able to post links yet)

[SpineyNorman]

Radical muslim/Islamist- Hmm...Well if you ask 100 people you'll proably get 100 differant answers but personaly id say somebody who rejects the values of the land such as democracy and free speech. Also someone who openly encourages there religous beliefs to be implimented in every-day society.

'Glorifying sharia and jihad' is pretty self explanitary.

That includes you then, you admit that you oppose the right to free speech for radical Islamists. You are also anti-democratic, with your union bashing and attempts to intimidate opponents (that won't work by the way). Get out of our country you Jihadi FILTH. /sarcasm

[Che a chara]

Trouble in paradise


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nz8V4LZSXFw&feature=player_embedded

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7JtpShZHZdE&feature=player_embedded

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fDwrooSA2Kw&feature=player_embedded

[Che a chara]

Is that foreign bloke drunk ? and the hoor is wearing an IDF shirt :mad:

[Che a chara]

I'm now kinda in agreement about censoring these dodgy EDL characters and their bullshit anti-fascist stance. The fuckers are trying to integrate themselves into anti-fascism and all inclusiveness. They should be made aware that their pro-imperialist/Zionism/Israel position has no place within these circles and that we abhor Israel's terrorism.

They are seemingly trying to worm their way in and this should be challenged on every level.

[Che a chara]

What a bunch of morons.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bl1UxlxcR4A

Who are they trying to kid ?