mosfeld
26th May 2010, 12:20
I've been wanting to learn about the controversial "Nation of Islam" for quite a long while now (should this be in learning?), and as such Im hoping for a productive thread aimed at educating me, and others who are, like me, not so knowledgeable about them. Also, Im guessing most members on this forum probably know the songs posted below, but since they're awesome songs, I got them linked so people who haven't checked them out can.
I got interested in them a fairly long while ago after reading the lyrics to "Bring the Noise (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cvy7MWjfVPE)" by the revolutionary hip hop outfit Public Enemy, where their frontman Chuck D goes "Now they got me in a sell cause my records they sell, cause a brother like me said well, Farrakhan's a prophet and I think you ought to listen to, what he can say to you [...]" The lyrics are obviously aimed at African-Americans, something which I am not, but as an oppressed minority African-Americans are collectively, in their struggle for national liberation, our allies in the struggle against imperialism, so I thought I'd check out what one of their main organizations had to say, especially after I found out that this radical far-left outfit were Nation of Islam members (or, at least, supporters.) The fact that the progressive and inspirational Malcolm X was a member during most of his activist years also obviously got me interested as well. Another famous black nationalist and radical, or someone who was at least at one time, was Ice Cube, who claimed that the organization was "the best place for any young black male", which sounds valid for someone who was one of the guys who wrote the anti-racist and anti-police brutality anthem "Fuck tha Police (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ro08bILEvqc)". Anyways, it seems like its common for left-wing and even radical left-wing African-Americans to support or be members of the Nation of Islam, which is a bonus point for considering them our allies.
So anyways, my question is: Is the Nation of Islam progressive and/or an ally of ours against imperialism?
All I've really heard about Nation of Islam from the left is that they're reactionary anti-semites and homophobes etc, which is, although concerning, not really valid criticism since it's not like they're "ideological" homophobes and anti-semites, but, from what I've heard, just something common amongst members, the same as its extremely common in society in general anyways.
I checked out their "Muslim Program (http://www.noi.org/muslim_program.htm)" and it seems, at first glimpse like a black nationalist program which actually offers a national liberation solution to the oppression of African-Americans and it also seemed very "socialistic", "left-wing", or at very least progressive. Point 4 specifically got me interested. Note that this resolution, or a similar one at least, was adopted by the Comintern during Stalin's era. I actually agree with all the points in this program except for the 10th one.
1. We want freedom. We want a full and complete freedom.
2. We want justice. Equal justice under the law. We want justice applied equally to all, regardless of creed or class or color.
3. We want equality of opportunity. We want equal membership in society with the best in civilized society.
4. We want our people in America whose parents or grandparents were descendants from slaves, to be allowed to establish a separate state or territory of their own--either on this continent or elsewhere. We believe that our former slave masters are obligated to provide such land and that the area must be fertile and minerally rich. We believe that our former slave masters are obligated to maintain and supply our needs in this separate territory for the next 20 to 25 years--until we are able to produce and supply our own needs.
Since we cannot get along with them in peace and equality, after giving them 400 years of our sweat and blood and receiving in return some of the worst treatment human beings have ever experienced, we believe our contributions to this land and the suffering forced upon us by white America, justifies our demand for complete separation in a state or territory of our own.
5. We want freedom for all Believers of Islam now held in federal prisons. We want freedom for all black men and women now under death sentence in innumerable prisons in the North as well as the South. We want every black man and woman to have the freedom to accept or reject being separated from the slave master's children and establish a land of their own.
We know that the above plan for the solution of the black and white conflict is the best and only answer to the problem between two people.
6. We want an immediate end to the police brutality and mob attacks against the so-called Negro throughout the United States. We believe that the Federal government should intercede to see that black men and women tried in white courts receive justice in accordance with the laws of the land--or allow us to build a new nation for ourselves, dedicated to justice, freedom and liberty.
7. As long as we are not allowed to establish a state or territory of our own, we demand not only equal justice under the laws of the United States, but equal employment opportunities--NOW!
We do not believe that after 400 years of free or nearly free labor, sweat and blood, which has helped America become rich and powerful, so many thousands of black people should have to subsist on relief or charity or live in poor houses.
8. We want the government of the United States to exempt our people from ALL taxation as long as we are deprived of equal justice under the laws of the land.
9. We want equal education--but separate schools up to 16 for boys and 18 for girls on the condition that the girls be sent to women's colleges and universities. We want all black children educated, taught and trained by their own teachers. Under such schooling system we believe we will make a better nation of people. The United States government should provide, free, all necessary text books and equipment, schools and college buildings. The Muslim teachers shall be left free to teach and train their people in the way of righteousness, decency and self respect.
10. We believe that intermarriage or race mixing should be prohibited. We want the religion of Islam taught without hindrance or suppression.
But yeah, from writing this thread I've learned a bit about them and my first formulated opinion is that they're progressive and seem to deserve support, like I think, in my opinion, all genuine black nationalist organizations in the United States do. Im, however, a self-criticizing communist, and if I get a wrong idea I correct it, so if I am, voice your opinion (note that I wont take liberal, idealist, crypto-imperialist etc criticism of them seriously.)
I got interested in them a fairly long while ago after reading the lyrics to "Bring the Noise (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cvy7MWjfVPE)" by the revolutionary hip hop outfit Public Enemy, where their frontman Chuck D goes "Now they got me in a sell cause my records they sell, cause a brother like me said well, Farrakhan's a prophet and I think you ought to listen to, what he can say to you [...]" The lyrics are obviously aimed at African-Americans, something which I am not, but as an oppressed minority African-Americans are collectively, in their struggle for national liberation, our allies in the struggle against imperialism, so I thought I'd check out what one of their main organizations had to say, especially after I found out that this radical far-left outfit were Nation of Islam members (or, at least, supporters.) The fact that the progressive and inspirational Malcolm X was a member during most of his activist years also obviously got me interested as well. Another famous black nationalist and radical, or someone who was at least at one time, was Ice Cube, who claimed that the organization was "the best place for any young black male", which sounds valid for someone who was one of the guys who wrote the anti-racist and anti-police brutality anthem "Fuck tha Police (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ro08bILEvqc)". Anyways, it seems like its common for left-wing and even radical left-wing African-Americans to support or be members of the Nation of Islam, which is a bonus point for considering them our allies.
So anyways, my question is: Is the Nation of Islam progressive and/or an ally of ours against imperialism?
All I've really heard about Nation of Islam from the left is that they're reactionary anti-semites and homophobes etc, which is, although concerning, not really valid criticism since it's not like they're "ideological" homophobes and anti-semites, but, from what I've heard, just something common amongst members, the same as its extremely common in society in general anyways.
I checked out their "Muslim Program (http://www.noi.org/muslim_program.htm)" and it seems, at first glimpse like a black nationalist program which actually offers a national liberation solution to the oppression of African-Americans and it also seemed very "socialistic", "left-wing", or at very least progressive. Point 4 specifically got me interested. Note that this resolution, or a similar one at least, was adopted by the Comintern during Stalin's era. I actually agree with all the points in this program except for the 10th one.
1. We want freedom. We want a full and complete freedom.
2. We want justice. Equal justice under the law. We want justice applied equally to all, regardless of creed or class or color.
3. We want equality of opportunity. We want equal membership in society with the best in civilized society.
4. We want our people in America whose parents or grandparents were descendants from slaves, to be allowed to establish a separate state or territory of their own--either on this continent or elsewhere. We believe that our former slave masters are obligated to provide such land and that the area must be fertile and minerally rich. We believe that our former slave masters are obligated to maintain and supply our needs in this separate territory for the next 20 to 25 years--until we are able to produce and supply our own needs.
Since we cannot get along with them in peace and equality, after giving them 400 years of our sweat and blood and receiving in return some of the worst treatment human beings have ever experienced, we believe our contributions to this land and the suffering forced upon us by white America, justifies our demand for complete separation in a state or territory of our own.
5. We want freedom for all Believers of Islam now held in federal prisons. We want freedom for all black men and women now under death sentence in innumerable prisons in the North as well as the South. We want every black man and woman to have the freedom to accept or reject being separated from the slave master's children and establish a land of their own.
We know that the above plan for the solution of the black and white conflict is the best and only answer to the problem between two people.
6. We want an immediate end to the police brutality and mob attacks against the so-called Negro throughout the United States. We believe that the Federal government should intercede to see that black men and women tried in white courts receive justice in accordance with the laws of the land--or allow us to build a new nation for ourselves, dedicated to justice, freedom and liberty.
7. As long as we are not allowed to establish a state or territory of our own, we demand not only equal justice under the laws of the United States, but equal employment opportunities--NOW!
We do not believe that after 400 years of free or nearly free labor, sweat and blood, which has helped America become rich and powerful, so many thousands of black people should have to subsist on relief or charity or live in poor houses.
8. We want the government of the United States to exempt our people from ALL taxation as long as we are deprived of equal justice under the laws of the land.
9. We want equal education--but separate schools up to 16 for boys and 18 for girls on the condition that the girls be sent to women's colleges and universities. We want all black children educated, taught and trained by their own teachers. Under such schooling system we believe we will make a better nation of people. The United States government should provide, free, all necessary text books and equipment, schools and college buildings. The Muslim teachers shall be left free to teach and train their people in the way of righteousness, decency and self respect.
10. We believe that intermarriage or race mixing should be prohibited. We want the religion of Islam taught without hindrance or suppression.
But yeah, from writing this thread I've learned a bit about them and my first formulated opinion is that they're progressive and seem to deserve support, like I think, in my opinion, all genuine black nationalist organizations in the United States do. Im, however, a self-criticizing communist, and if I get a wrong idea I correct it, so if I am, voice your opinion (note that I wont take liberal, idealist, crypto-imperialist etc criticism of them seriously.)