Cornish independance ??

[scarletghoul]

What do you all think ? I don't know a lot about it at all. Apparently 55% of Cornish people said they favoured a regional assembly (devolved powers), which was surprising to me as I always thought cornish nationalism was a complete joke, but now I'm not so sure.
Also saw this old thread, which is interesting http://www.revleft.com/vb/39-insurrection-39-t63426/index.html?t=63426

So yeah could someone explain please a bit about it ? To what extent is there a seperate cornish identity (anymore), economically aswell as culturally ? Is this a legitimate liberation movement or just nationalism for the sake of nationalism ?

[Red Saxon]

Just ethnic nationalism. It's not like the British are really oppressing them at all besides not offering them real minority protection.

[scarletghoul]

Well Cornwall is one of the poorest areas in the UK actually, and there are a ton of disgusting middleclass English holiday homes there (which were targets of the Cornish Liberation Army etc), but im not sure if its really a case of 2 seperate ethnic peoples or is it just like any other poor region of england

[Palingenisis]

Well Cornwall is one of the poorest areas in the UK actually, and there are a ton of disgusting middleclass English holiday homes there (which were targets of the Cornish Liberation Army etc), but im not sure if its really a case of 2 seperate ethnic peoples or is it just like any other poor region of england

There is a cornish anarchist seperatist movement which is pretty cool.

One of them went on libcom and was bombarded by English racism. The cornish people have much more in common with the Bretons than the English.

[Palingenisis]

http://www.celticleague.net/

These guys who are also pretty cool would be a good place to start looking for information.

[Oolong]

These links might help with finding some info about it all:

libcom.org/forums/south-west/national-minorities-in-the-uk

libcom.org/forums/news/cnla-cornwall-national-liberation-army-threaten-firebomb-celebrity-chefs

kernowaction.wordpress.com/2009/09/20/kernow-action-now-from-cornish-democrat-blog/

thecornishdemocrat.blogspot.com/

Sorry about not being able to post the proper links.

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

Will being forced to labor for Cornish capitalists and have strikes broken by Cornish police represent an improvement for workers there or the international working class as a whole?

Will it bring us any nearer to the elimination of private property in the means of production and thus classes and class-based misery?

Can an independent capitalist Cornish state even exist in the capitalist world economy?

Answer these questions and you'll have the answer to your inquiry.

[REVLEFT'S BIEGGST MATSER TROL]

What on earth does this have to do with revolution? Leftists aren't here to pick sides between the winners and losers of capitalist power struggles.

And for gods sake, Cornish Independence? Isn't this as silly as ginger rights?

[Dr Mindbender]

And for gods sake, Cornish Independence? Isn't this as silly as ginger rights?

If Cornwall came under workers control then it wouldnt be silly at all, no.

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

If Cornwall comes under workers' control and the struggle doesn't spread the outcome will not be bright. The creation of a proletarian society in one county is no more possible than creation of a proletarian society in one country.

[Spawn of Stalin]

Will being forced to labor for Cornish capitalists and have strikes broken by Cornish police represent an improvement for workers there or the international working class as a whole?
No, but it will represent self determination for the huge number of Cornish nationalists. Cornwall as a region is heavily exploited by the British ruling class, most working class people in Cornwall are diabolically poor, yet Cornwall brings in billions every year through tourism and farming (over half of Cornwall's GDP goes straight to London). Cornish independence would enable the working class to break free from these chains, and even if they still have capitalism it will represent a small victory for the working class, and probably a small step towards socialism.

Will it bring us any nearer to the elimination of private property in the means of production and thus classes and class-based misery?
Possibly, you might be surprised at the amount of Cornish workers who wish to see a change in the status quo, but even if the answer is no, it certainly would not take us further away from the elimination of private property.

Can an independent capitalist Cornish state even exist in the capitalist world economy?
Who knows? It's bigger and has a much larger population than Andorra, it has a very similar, tourism based economy, there's also a lot of scope for food and produce industry as well, and on top of that, it has something Andorra doesn't have; ports. I think that with a bit of industrialisation Cornwall would do just fine.

I can't say I like the typical RevLeft formula for determining whether or not independence should be on the agenda or not, and people disregard the national question all too often simply because it is not always a "worker issue". Something does not need to be absolutely socialistic in nature for it to be deserving of our support....take Palestine as an example, there is a chance, a good chance, that a free Palestinian state would be controlled by an anti-Communist Islamist regime, however we still support the struggle for an independent Palestinian state, and many of us still support the reactionary Hamas.

I think it goes without saying that I support Cornish independence.

[scarletghoul]

Thanks, it's very interesting to find out about this.


What on earth does this have to do with revolution? Leftists aren't here to pick sides between the winners and losers of capitalist power struggles.
Would I be correct in assuming then that you do not consider yourself anti-imperialist ?

And has anyone else noticed that the Celtic nations tend to have cool flags ?

[REVLEFT'S BIEGGST MATSER TROL]

If Cornwall came under workers control then it wouldnt be silly at all, no.

Which I would support, if the Cornish independence group was advocating that.

But in which case, why not advocate worldwide or countrywide "workers control?" Its hardly going to help their cause by just restricting themselves to Cornwall.

[REVLEFT'S BIEGGST MATSER TROL]

Thanks, it's very interesting to find out about this.


Would I be correct in assuming then that you do not consider yourself anti-imperialist ?

And has anyone else noticed that the Celtic nations tend to have cool flags ?

Well I suppose you are correct here, the position I just outlined would seem to make me not an anti imperialist.


Which is not a sensible position imo. Obviously people have the right to resist foreign occupation, and it would seem to weaken capitalism overall if say, the americans lost their empire.

The only thing I can think of is that leftists seem to be too drawn into thinking that these nationalist "anti imperialism" is actually leftist in some way, shape or form (Even if they claim to be communists), rather than just tactically beneficial for us. Nepal isn't ever going to "build communism" or even socialism, but it is great that a; imperialism suffers a setback b; the nepalese people become better off.

So, uh, UP FREE CORNWALL!!

[Spawn of Stalin]

Which I would support, if the Cornish independence group was advocating that.

But in which case, why not advocate worldwide or countrywide "workers control?" Its hardly going to help their cause by just restricting themselves to Cornwall.

All Communists advocate worldwide workers democracy. For example my party, CPGB-ML, in an internationalist party, like all Communist parties we are for world Communist revolution, but we are still the CPGB-ML, so naturally we are going to focus most of our efforts on Great Britain, it doesn't mean we are dismissing other parts of the world, or that we are restricting ourselves only to the place where we live. By your logic, socialist parties in the occupied six should stop calling for a single Irish free state, and instead concentrate on world revolution.

I think that for anyone with a particular interest in the national question should really take more notice of Cornwall. Of course, whether or not Cornwall can be considered a nation or a potential nation is up for debate, but personally as someone who lived there for a while I think it definitely is, it has a culture and history entirely separate to that of England, it has a language which many of its people would like to see restored as a second, or even primary, official language, also most people who live in Cornwall are Cornish, very few working people actually move to Cornwall, and on top of all that, not that this has anything to do with the national question, the working class of Cornwall would undoubtedly enjoy a higher standard of living as an independent or autonomous state. Anyone who has ever been on holiday to Cornwall or Scilly can see that they do not belong in this trainwreck of a country.

[Spawn of Stalin]

And has anyone else noticed that the Celtic nations tend to have cool flags ?

This is true, in my opinion Brittany (or Briezh) has one of the best looking flags in the world, probably the second best after Belarus. Though I don't know too much about the independence movement over there.

http://www.hampshireflag.co.uk/images/Flags/Brittany-Flag.jpg

[scarletghoul]

Well I suppose you are correct here, the position I just outlined would seem to make me not an anti imperialist.


Which is not a sensible position imo. Obviously people have the right to resist foreign occupation, and it would seem to weaken capitalism overall if say, the americans lost their empire.

The only thing I can think of is that leftists seem to be too drawn into thinking that these nationalist "anti imperialism" is actually leftist in some way, shape or form (Even if they claim to be communists), rather than just tactically beneficial for us. Nepal isn't ever going to "build communism" or even socialism, but it is great that a; imperialism suffers a setback b; the nepalese people become better off.

So, uh, UP FREE CORNWALL!!
Haha. Yeah, any victory against imperialism is a victory against capitalism (and vice versa). However you're wrong about Nepal; the Maoists there are serious about communism.


This is true, in my opinion Brittany (or Briezh) has one of the best looking flags in the world, probably the second best after Belarus. Though I don't know too much about the independence movement over there.

http://www.hampshireflag.co.uk/images/Flags/Brittany-Flag.jpgYes, its a great design. One of my favourite flags in the world is that of Wales. Most countries just have some coloured pattern or something, but Wales has a picture of an awesome red dragon
http://www.learning-tech.co.uk/welsh_flag.png
If Wales ever becomes communist, the red dragon would make a great proletarian symbol