Cybernetic dragons? WTF?

[Fullmetal Anarchist]

Okay after talking with NoXion I thought that a certain someone who's a bit of a dragon addict needed to learn some harsh truths. See thread here http://www.revleft.com/vb/transhumanism-t133200/index.html?p=1739896#post1739896. Anyway if your gonna fight with these things here's some current military tech that would utterly destroy those stupid dragons.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCC7LrHu7cw.


You want more proof? Ok how bout these?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8QQozXfXSxU.

Ok I'm done sorry but it really bugged me that someone really didn't do his homework.

[Dimentio]

Its a bit like Furry Fandom mixtured with politics. It does nothing but show exactly how removed from reality some people are. It is really sad.

[Fullmetal Anarchist]

Yep it is sad and a bit like furries. Good fun to rip into though.

[Dimentio]

Not the day an idiot organisation like that actually commits an atrocity...

[Raúl Duke]

It is wrong. That's not the point at all. Those who choose to be dragons do so because that's the form that most accurately expresses how they perceive themselves as individuals. They want to look like a dragon because they feel like a dragon.

"Fuck you I'm a Dragon!"

[gorillafuck]

The only people who feel that they could only really express themselves in dragon form are five years old.

[Invincible Summer]

The only people who feel that they could only really express themselves in dragon form are five years old.

I lol'd. I mean, I respect the FedCom guys for committing to what is a really ambitious idea, but... dragons... really? I think it would be less ridiculous if they said "mecha gorilla"

http://home.comcast.net/~mathewignash/images/csoptimusprimal.jpg

[scarletghoul]

:laugh: mecha gorilla

[Jazzratt]

I lol'd. I mean, I respect the FedCom guys for committing to what is a really ambitious idea, but... dragons... really? I think it would be less ridiculous if they said "mecha gorilla"

http://home.comcast.net/%7Emathewignash/images/csoptimusprimal.jpg

I guess where you typed "less ridiculous" you intended to type "far more awesome". I'm holding out for flying robot bear-sharks though.

[piet11111]

I would totally dig it if the cybran monkeylord from supreme commander was made into reality

http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20070502000913/supcom/images/thumb/e/ed/Monkeylord_insitu.jpg/450px-Monkeylord_insitu.jpg

its so awesome to have 5 of those stomping towards enemy lines sweeping those lasers over their units.

[Revy]

I think the idea is both dumb and dangerous, and I don't see what it has to do with transhumanism, since transhumanists don't want to transcend the humanoid form, merely improve it with technology.

[Dimentio]

I think the idea is both dumb and dangerous, and I don't see what it has to do with transhumanism, since transhumanists don't want to transcend the humanoid form, merely improve it with technology.

Transhumanism is filled with loons, which is sad really.

[piet11111]

Transhumanism is filled with loons, which is sad really.

This is a chitchat thread i had no idea i had to be serious here :rolleyes:

[Mendax]

I would totally dig it if the cybran monkeylord from supreme commander was made into reality

Of this an indorsement of that game? 'cause I was thinking of buying it a while ago.

And anyway being a dragon would be AWESOME for about a week, then it'd just get annoying...

[piet11111]

Of this an indorsement of that game? 'cause I was thinking of buying it a while ago.

And anyway being a dragon would be AWESOME for about a week, then it'd just get annoying...

Yeah i would recommend it to RTS fans its much harder to be good at this game then the average RTS.
It certainly is a lot of fun against friends when you finally get some of the experimentals out to play.

Also its now a bargain bin game so you can not go wrong though it is rather heavy on your system.

also check the gold edition it comes with the expansion forged alliance.

[Dimentio]

http://games.adultswim.com/robot-unicorn-attack-twitchy-online-game.html

[bcbm]

I think the idea is both dumb and dangerous, and I don't see what it has to do with transhumanism, since transhumanists don't want to transcend the humanoid form, merely improve it with technology.

if technology gets to the point where i can be an awesome dragon, i am probably going to be an awesome dragon.

[this is an invasion]

Where are they gonna get the resources and man power to build these things?

[Dimentio]

Where are they gonna get the resources and man power to build these things?

Sell sexual favours on Second Life?

[Robocommie]

I want my robot body to look like Adrienne Barbeau. Yeah yeah, with chainsaws for arms! BZZZZ!

http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k188/Exchaos/murphy.gif

[Invincible Summer]

I think the idea is both dumb and dangerous, and I don't see what it has to do with transhumanism, since transhumanists don't want to transcend the humanoid form, merely improve it with technology.

Well, the ultimate goal is to create "post-humans," but the term is fairly subjective and not well defined, as we're not even in the trans-human stage yet. I mean, I suppose in theory one could be a dragon if one wanted, but it seems sort of ridiculous

[NGNM85]

I'd just like to say that this is not representative of Transhumanism. i'm a Transhumanist, and I think it's adolescent bullshit. I suspect very well, very likely in my own lifetime, barring an existential cataclysm of some sort, we will develop the technology necessary to create dragon cyborgs. However, I would hope we would be able to come up with at least a few million more constructive applications.

[Robocommie]

I'd just like to say that this is not representative of Transhumanism. i'm a Transhumanist, and I think it's adolescent bullshit. I suspect very well, very likely in my own lifetime, barring an existential cataclysm of some sort, we will develop the technology necessary to create dragon cyborgs. However, I would hope we would be able to come up with at least a few million more constructive applications.

Transhumanism is just silly technological fetishism. I know that this cytrans thing is an extreme, but it's not like transhumanism isn't still a lesser degree of technophilia - mostly appealing to geeks and science fiction fans.

[NGNM85]

Transhumanism is just silly technological fetishism. I know that this cytrans thing is an extreme, but it's not like transhumanism isn't still a lesser degree of technophilia - mostly appealing to geeks and science fiction fans.

That's a really unfair, and dismissive statement. I'd also argue it's incorrect.

Of course, I don't expect you to take that at face value. First, the "big picture." What will become of the human race? It's a big question, which doesn't receive nearly the amount of attention it deserves. It sounds far too big and complex to postulate, and when it comes down to specific details or exact dates it is, but we can draw some very fundamental conclusions. (Just to give credit where credit's due I'm essentially paraphrasing Oxford philosopher Nick Bostrom, here. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nick_Bostrom)

There are about four major possibilities;
Extinction-This is really self explanatory. I have to say it doesn't really appeal to me.
Plateau-The idea that human progress will reach some sort of ceiling, either some biological limitation or physical law, perhaps, or by deliberate relinquishment, civilization will go so far, no further.
Recurrent Collapse-We go through semi-regular cycles of social upheaval which keep humanity from developing past a certain point.
Transhumanism-We gradually change and evolve until we exceed what we presently define as human.

This really covers all the bases. However, two of these scenarios are drastically less likely. First, I don't see any law of physics or another external constraint that would be an insurmountable impasse to human progress. While I can understand certain technologies being discarded, or what have you, for various reasons, I find it equally difficult to imagine that humanity as a species would relinquish progress, altogether. The recurrent collapse scenario is also problematic. It strains the limits of plausibility that in a post-nuclear age we could have regular episodes of global upheaval violent enough to disrupt all of civilization without sliding into one of the other categories, most likely, (Self-imposed.) extinction.

Any biologist will tell you species is transitory. On a long enough timeline, if a species survives, it will evolve to the point it no longer fits the criteria of it's original designation. This process just takes so long compared to the length of the average human lifespan we don't really consider it. We are still evolving. However, our technological evolution, if you will, is outpacing our bodies by billions and trillions (That's actually being conservative.) of degrees. The history of medicine has been the process of using technology to make ourselves stronger, healthier, more vibrant. Now, we have reached the point where we have sufficient scientific understanding, we understand our bodies sufficiently, that we're learning how to manipulate the source code, if you will. This is like promethean fire. I’m quoting some doctor who’s name I can’t remember, but, at this point, there’s no distinction between developing new treatments and human enhancement. If you look at where we are with GNR technologies, and the prevailing trends, it’s really par for the course.

Also, considering the leading proponents of Transhumanism are also some of the most distinguished and brilliant examples of their respective fields, (Bill Joy, Nick Bostrom, Ray Kurzweil, Michio Kaku, and Stephen Hawking, just to name a few.) characterizing it as simply the adolescent fantasies of Trekkers and D&D enthusiasts, is really a mischaracterization.

[Robocommie]

Says the man with the Enterprise in his avatar. ;)

Look, all that said, transhumanism is fucking silly. Getting a chubby about the hypotheticals of what science can do to change the species is like focusing on moon colonies or going to a distant star. Science and technology, without socialism, is bourgeois privilege extended.

I care about increasing grain yields, about improving the quality of housing, of providing universal electrification, plumbing, irrigation and better road and rail networks, expanding telecommunications access and building schools and clinics. Nothing else but that matters in comparison, and certainly not "curing death" or getting some kind of cyberpunk "wetware".

And nothing you said changes the reality of just what demographic transhumanism tends to really appeal to - the intellectual elite of the first world.

[NGNM85]

Says the man with the Enterprise in his avatar. ;)

Ok, I sorta walked into that one.:blushing:
However, I just watch it, I don't live it.
I love comics and sci-fi but when I went to a convention and saw guys in their 40's correcting eachother on klingon adverbs I could only think; "I hope that isn't contagious."


Look, all that said, transhumanism is fucking silly. Getting a chubby about the hypotheticals of what science can do to change the species is like focusing on moon colonies or going to a distant star.

But these are wonderous, wonderful things. One should feel inspired, a sense of awe. We are at the point where we are getting the answers to the really big questions. Craig Venter's latest acheivement in essentially creating life is a perfect example. It's a triumph for the human race.



Science and technology, without socialism, is bourgeois privilege extended.

I care about increasing grain yields, about improving the quality of housing, of providing universal electrification, plumbing, irrigation and better road and rail networks, expanding telecommunications access and building schools and clinics. Nothing else but that matters in comparison, and certainly not "curing death" or getting some kind of cyberpunk "wetware".

I disagree on two counts; first, the implication that advances in technology only help the rich, which isn't true. Once technologies become perfected they get cheap and become ubiquitous. Cell phones were a toy for the rich in 1985 when they were the size of a brick, worked infrequently, and cost an arm and a leg. Now, kalahari bushmen carry them. If you want to criticize the inequalities created by this diabolical brand of corporate communism that is called "capitalism", you're preaching to the converted. I would love to make this stuff more accessible, it can be, and it should be. Technology is slippery, like sand or water it tends to seep into the most constrained spaces.

Second, this dubious implication that developing nanotechnology is preventing us from building infrastructure, or providing medical care. That's because the bastard politicians are spending retarded sums of money on guns and bombs and giving handouts to billionaires. There's no reason why one should negate the other. Second, technology is providing new and better tools which can help us to be more productive, at a lower cost. I think technology is inheremntly liberating and empowering. Police states around the world have tried to censor the internet but they just can't do it. Their citizens are getting uncensored news from around the globe, smuggling out dispatches and photographs of human rights violations.

It's also conceivable in the near future we could develop a cheap, near-infinite power supply. Say, if we perfected nuclear fusion, or nanotech solar cells which, if they could catch one-one-hundred-thousandth of the sunlight we receive every day, could meet the energy needs of the entire planet with no emissions. It might be possible that such technologies may in fact be the most potent weapons against 'capitalism.' As resources approach infinity, a system based on scarcity becomes incresingly less viable.

In summation; we can walk and chew gum at the same time.



And nothing you said changes the reality of just what demographic transhumanism tends to really appeal to - the intellectual elite of the first world.

Translation; "smart people."

[Jazzratt]

Transhumanism is just silly technological fetishism. I know that this cytrans thing is an extreme, but it's not like transhumanism isn't still a lesser degree of technophilia - mostly appealing to geeks and science fiction fans.

This record is getting old. Change it.

[Invincible Summer]

I care about increasing grain yields, about improving the quality of housing, of providing universal electrification, plumbing, irrigation and better road and rail networks, expanding telecommunications access and building schools and clinics. Nothing else but that matters in comparison, and certainly not "curing death" or getting some kind of cyberpunk "wetware".

No one has said that the things you mentioned shouldn't happen either. With the increase of technological prowess, the goals you named (all very important, I agree) should be and I believe would be developed alongside transhumanist technology.


And nothing you said changes the reality of just what demographic transhumanism tends to really appeal to - the intellectual elite of the first world.
I wouldn't believe that some tribesman in a remote area would turn down the opportunity to have some enhancement to make them invulnerable to a host of diseases, or increase their healthspan.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

Look, all that said, transhumanism is fucking silly. Getting a chubby about the hypotheticals of what science can do to change the species is like focusing on moon colonies or going to a distant star. Science and technology, without socialism, is bourgeois privilege extended.

I'm pretty sure the Transhumanists on this site at least are socialists of one kind or another.


I care about increasing grain yields, about improving the quality of housing, of providing universal electrification, plumbing, irrigation and better road and rail networks, expanding telecommunications access and building schools and clinics. Nothing else but that matters in comparison, and certainly not "curing death" or getting some kind of cyberpunk "wetware".

I agree that quality of life comes first. That is why I am a technocratic communist as well as a Transhumanist. But I think we should go further.


And nothing you said changes the reality of just what demographic transhumanism tends to really appeal to - the intellectual elite of the first world.

It's hard to swot up on the latest developments when one is busy finding one's next meal - that does not mean that people in the so-called "third world" or whatever have no inherent interest in the matter. Humans have been seeking to transcend their own biological limitations throughout history.

[Franz Fanonipants]

Translation; "smart people."

I don't know if smart counts as 'sperging out over "VERY SERIOUS PHILOSOPHY" based on science fiction.

That said, transhumanism is basically the modern equivalent of Medieval philosophers arguing about angels dancing on the head of pins. A bunch of do-nothing thought.

[Invincible Summer]

I don't know if smart counts as 'sperging out over "VERY SERIOUS PHILOSOPHY" based on science fiction.

That said, transhumanism is basically the modern equivalent of Medieval philosophers arguing about angels dancing on the head of pins. A bunch of do-nothing thought.


Do-nothing?

Watch:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0_mLumx-6Y

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iT7IXfcifHE

[Fullmetal Anarchist]

Fuck's sake this was meant to be fun :bored:

[Franz Fanonipants]

Do-nothing?

Watch:
R0_mLumx-6Y

iT7IXfcifHE

That's rad.

I don't see how either of those necessitates a brand new, silly branch of philosophy.

[Robocommie]

Fuck's sake this was meant to be fun :bored:

It doesn't have to be not fun. I'm not particularly angry about this, it's not like I think Transhumanists should die or something.

[RHIZOMES]

A future world ruled by cyborg dragons = justification for hating black people, as according to Kenneth Eng:

TK4fjMhGn-I

[Robocommie]

"A cursory examination of solipsism and evolution proves that dragons are superior, blacks are terrible, and that I am god of the universe."
"Why are you so angry?"
"What's that?"
"Why are you so angry?"
"Oh. Well, you see John, you might not have noticed, but I'm craaaazy."

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

That's rad.

I don't see how either of those necessitates a brand new, silly branch of philosophy.

I think robotic arms are a bad example.

Nanotechnology and artificial intelligence on the other, now those are two potential game-changers.

[Invincible Summer]

That's rad.

I don't see how either of those necessitates a brand new, silly branch of philosophy.

Transhumanism is about utilizing technology to improve human life. You said it was a "do-nothing philosophy." People are doing things that can be very much construed as transhumanist, albeit primitive compared to nanotech and AI.


I think robotic arms are a bad example.

Nanotechnology and artificial intelligence on the other, now those are two potential game-changers.
Yeah, but it's easier to find videos about prosthetics. Besides, I thought using a very simple example would demonstrate how transhumanism actually encompasses many things that we don't even consider, such as advanced prosthetics.

[Robocommie]

Transhumanism is about utilizing technology to improve human life.

I think Fanonipants kindof hit it on the head though. How is this, utilizing technology to improve human life, in any way different from what humanity has been doing since the development of the stone knife?

[NGNM85]

I don't see how either of those necessitates a brand new, silly branch of philosophy.

Why do you think transhumanism is 'silly'?


I think Fanonipants kindof hit it on the head though. How is this, utilizing technology to improve human life, in any way different from what humanity has been doing since the development of the stone knife?

I’d say it’s the order of magnitude. At this point we’re not just adapting our environment, or building better mousetraps, we’re on the verge of being able to create life, build sentient machines, and fundamentally transforming ourselves into something different. Transforming into something that no longer fits the definition of ‘human.’

[piet11111]

I think Fanonipants kindof hit it on the head though. How is this, utilizing technology to improve human life, in any way different from what humanity has been doing since the development of the stone knife?

Because its about improving/enhancing ourselves instead of utilizing tools.
Increasing our lifespan and health along with other physical characteristics (strength stamina anything really)