Dalai Lama: "I'm Marxist"

[Q]

Now this is interesting.

Source (http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=nl&sl=sv&tl=en&u=http://www.dn.se/nyheter/varlden/dalai-lama-jag-ar-marxist-1.1109085)


Tibet's exiled leader the Dalai Lama is a Marxist, but think that capitalism has given Chinese people more freedom.

It said on Thursday in New York, where he had come to give lectures. After having praised capitalism for creating more freedom in China, he said:

- I'm still a Marxist.

The 74-year-old Buddhist, which were driven into exile by China in 1959, came to New York at the head of a procession of monks.

- Marxism has morals, while Capitalism is all about how to create profits.

For China, the market economy has meant a weakening of the grip of communism, he stressed.

- Millions of people's living standards have improved.

But he remained critical of China's leadership. They try to rule by terror, though they strive for harmony.

- But harmony must come from the heart and can not be created out of fear.

If developments in the world the Dalai Lama was remarkably optimistic: he feels the human race as friendlier and more united. Anti-war movements, the massive international aid to Haiti after the earthquake and the election of Barack Obama for president in a deeply racist past U.S. are "clear signs that people have matured," argues lama.

Tickets for the lecture cost upwards of $ 100. Some of the money goes to charity, to know the Dalai Lama, but added, laughing:

- Unfortunately, organizations sometimes become a bit richer.

AFP
I'm not sure how the Chinese have become "more free" through capitalism, but it is news to me that he calls himself a Marxist.

[Invincible Summer]

He's claimed this before... and I'm not sure if he understands what Marxism means as I'm not sure if he's explained why exactly he's a "Marxist."

[RedStarOverChina]

Oh come on. Et tu, Q? I just spent an entire evening slamming pro-Dalai Lama Chinese liberals. :(

The Dalai Lama spent the first 20 years or so of his exile calling for a "united front to defeat socialism".

Suddenly, in the late 1970s when the Nixon administration stopped funding him and his government, he made the ground-breaking claim that he's a "half Marxist"---No doubt wanting to attract fresh investment and take advantage of the Sino-Soviet Split, as Western journalists duly noted at the time.

Of course, the US government soon resumed funding him, and he shut up about it for the longest time. Since the 90s, it seems that e finds this rhetoric useful again.

[Q]

Oh come on. Et tu, Q?
I wasn't saying I now wholeheartedly support the Dalai Lama, I just found it a curious statement.


The Dalai Lama spent the first 20 years or so of his exile calling for a "united front to defeat socialism".

Suddenly, in the late 1970s when the Nixon administration stopped funding him and his government, he made the ground-breaking claim that he's a "half Marxist"---No doubt wanting to attract fresh investment and take advantage of the Sino-Soviet Split, as Western journalists duly noted at the time.

Of course, the US government soon resumed funding him, and he shut up about it for the longest time. Since the 90s, it seems that e finds this rhetoric useful again.

Thanks for the background.

[eyedrop]

"When the Chinese wealth increases, they will demand more freedom, independent courts and free media."
http://www.dagsavisen.no/utenriks/article486412.ece

It was interesting to me as well, although it's probably just a politician manoeuvring through the dire straits.

It makes it somewhat more difficult for right-wingers to criticise Marxists by reffering to the suppression of Tibet.

[Kassad]

Yeah, and I'm Joseph fucking Stalin.

[Q]

Yeah, and I'm Joseph fucking Stalin.

You're Joseph, fucking Stalin? Sick, sick mind.

[The Vegan Marxist]

You're Joseph, fucking Stalin? Sick, sick mind.

Everyone has their ways in not going to the Gulags :thumbup1:

(p.s. joking, given that I'm pro-stalin lol)

[Jolly Red Giant]

(p.s. joking, given that I'm pro-stalin lol)
or not ! ;)

[RadioRaheem84]

Tibet's exiled leader the Dalai Lama is a Marxist, but think that capitalism has given Chinese people more freedom.

I once met a Tibetan Buddhist in Austin who was giving a lecture, afterward, I had followed him to the back of the bookstore to ask him some questions, as I was interested in Buddhism. He pulled out a cigarette and started puffing away, chilling with his back against the wall. I looked a bit stunned and asked him what he though of smoking and the Eight Fold Path, purity, etc? He looked at me and asked, "why not smoke" ?

It was then on that I thought Buddhism was a whacky religion. The quote above by the Dalai Lama speaks volumes.

[Axle]

Whatever. The Dalai Lama owned slaves under a feudal society before the Chinese took over Tibet. That fact alone doesn't give this claim very much validation for me.

[blackwave]

He might be something of a hypocrite, but at least he recognises the (theoretical) moral superiority of socialism.

[Scary Monster]

Whatever. The Dalai Lama owned slaves under a feudal society before the Chinese took over Tibet. That fact alone doesn't give this claim very much validation for me.

Thanks for that fact. It instantly trashes all of the BS hes just said in this article lol. No wonder why he was in exile.
I thought to myself "Freakin totalitarian pricks. i never considered China very communist anyway". But nope, he owned slaves and shit. I would have exiled his ass too :lol:

[chegitz guevara]

Whatever. The Dalai Lama owned slaves under a feudal society before the Chinese took over Tibet. That fact alone doesn't give this claim very much validation for me.

Wasn't he like, sixteen, when he owned slaves? That's when the PRC invaded and sort of changed all that. Are you really going to hold a 74 year old man responsible for what was done in his name when he was a teenager?

One of the chief claims of Marxism is that humans have the capacity to change, for the better.

This isn't to say anything of the Dalai's Lama current role or politics. I'm just saying, we need to recognize people can change sides.

[GreenCommunism]

this has nothing to do with the topic, but why is redstaroverchina banned and a moderator at the same time?

[RedStarOverChina]

this has nothing to do with the topic, but why is redstaroverchina banned and a moderator at the same time?
I love you. The world would be so dull without people like you.

[Rusty Shackleford]

fuck the dali-lama god king.

the only thing i can see as beneficial form this is that maybe a few liberal "free tibet" people might look into it.

[Invincible Summer]

fuck the dali-lama god king.

the only thing i can see as beneficial form this is that maybe a few liberal "free tibet" people might look into it.

Or think that they're indirectly Marxists

[chebol]

I met the man once, around 15 years ago. Nice guy, rather funny, quite friendly. But never gave any indication that he was anything other than your classic smart-arse buddhist.

Anyone care to remember that it's politically very important - for Tibetan buddhism - that they get to choose the next Dalai Lama (without Chinese intervention - or at least with their minimal involvement)?
Tenzin Gyatso is playing (or trying to, anyway) the Chinese very nicely, thank you very much...

[Saorsa]

http://kasamaproject.org/interviews/the-true-story-of-maoist-revolution-in-tibet/

[AK]

You're Joseph, fucking Stalin? Sick, sick mind.
Why not? Stalin's a babe.

this has nothing to do with the topic, but why is redstaroverchina banned and a moderator at the same time?
Trippy, isn't it?

[soyonstout]

Just what the working class needs: another bourgeois celebrity who doesn't really understand marxism claiming to be a Marxist!

at least he's not a head of state.

[Robocommie]

All issues of the Dalai Lama and what Tibet was like before the invasion of 1949 aside, the truth is, cultural hegemony is wrong, Tibet deserves independence if the people want independence.

The PRC is a revisionist, capitalist government. Tibet is a colony, along with East Turkestan/Xinjiang.

[Crux]

Actually, I have not heard of any who are not Dalai Lama followers who are demanding a separate nation under national self determination.

Also the Tibetans formed the majority of those who helped to create modern Tibet by overthrowing slavery and feudalism. They saw that Mao was a pro-peasant leader who helped peasants like themselves to overcome the slavery and feudal oppression. So, it would be very inappropriate to call it "cultural hegemony".
And I don't know of any genuine marxist, unwittingly or not, defending the Beijing-regime and completly throwing out the national questions in china in favor of...what exactly?

[Barry Lyndon]

This is the same man who was the CIA's lapdog for years(probably still is), who wholeheartedly cheered the NATO bombing of Yugoslavia and refused to condemn the American invasion of Iraq, glibly claiming 'its too early to tell'. He's hailed by scores of dumb celebrities and millions of liberal idiots who couldn't give a shit about the millions of Iraqis, Afghans, and Palestinians suffering from US imperialism, but somehow really 'care' about the poor little Tibetans, and show how much they 'care' by fawning over a representative of a brutal feudal theocracy that enslaved the Tibetan people for centuries.
There was this one student in one of my classes wearing a T-Shirt with the Dalai Lama's phoney grin on it. I went up after class and asked him if he had any idea what Tibet was like before the 1950's. He backed off and said 'I don't know, a friend gave this to me, etc'. Basically, people just take up the cause because its fashionable.
It's not that China's current behavior in Tibet isn't despicable, and that the Tibetan people don't have legitimate grievances. But who appointed this self-important potentate to speak for all Tibetans?
This statement means absolutely nothing, except as another example of the Dalai Lama's shameful opportunism.

[Crux]

I definitely do not defend the CCP in its current avatar. Just wanted to clear up misconceptions that the CCP may have wanted to impose a foregin cultural hegemony on the Tibetans.
The point is, that is what they are doing now, effectively moving in rich hanchinese into the tibetan territory which of course sparks racial conflicts.

There are some signs of Dalai Lamas authority breaking up a bit among the younger more radicalized tibetans. But that's not something that'd make the news. I mean who'd tell you the western media? Not bloody likely. I of course purposefully left out the pro-beijing media that exists. Yeah, caught between a bunch of hippes, their corporate backers, the ccp regime and their corporate backers. Not a very fun place to be.

[Robocommie]

The point is, that is what they are doing now, effectively moving in rich hanchinese into the tibetan territory which of course sparks racial conflicts.

It's colonialism. It's like settling Palestine with Zionist Jews, settling North America with Europeans in the 19th century, or settling Ireland with Protestant Scots and English for the duration of English and UK control.

[Robocommie]

This is the same man who was the CIA's lapdog for years(probably still is), who wholeheartedly cheered the NATO bombing of Yugoslavia and refused to condemn the American invasion of Iraq, glibly claiming 'its too early to tell'. He's hailed by scores of dumb celebrities and millions of liberal idiots who couldn't give a shit about the millions of Iraqis, Afghans, and Palestinians suffering from US imperialism, but somehow really 'care' about the poor little Tibetans, and show how much they 'care' by fawning over a representative of a brutal feudal theocracy that enslaved the Tibetan people for centuries.

What's the source on this cheering on the NATO bombing of Yugoslavia, and this thing about the Iraq invasion? I find this a little hard to believe because I very clearly recall early on in Bush's presidency, the Dalai Lama criticized the War on Terror because he stated that violence would not address the social causes for terrorism, it would only create more. I vividly recall this.

[Rusty Shackleford]

The point is, that is what they are doing now, effectively moving in rich hanchinese into the tibetan territory which of course sparks racial conflicts.



just a question, doesnt this almost always happen that the least oppressed nationality ends up still being a dominant force in a multinational country that has grown?

[RedStarOverChina]

I can understand Tibetan separatism and resentment steming from economic inequity. The income gap is widening, this is due to the criminal neo-liberal economic policies imposed by the CCP.

However, the "culture genocide" claims are ridiculous. No Tibetan are made to wear Mao suit or read Confucius. Tibetan culture, like many other cultures, are under pressure from an influx of Western culture. Tibetan youth wear jeans, go to disco clubs and play Japanese video games.

Nevertheless, there're more Tibetans literate in their language than ever before (though that's not saying much, Tibetan literacy is still the lowest among all other ethnicities, the cause of this is complex), and more Tibetan artists (bards, poets, painters) than ever before.


It's colonialism. It's like settling Palestine with Zionist Jews, settling North America with Europeans in the 19th century, or settling Ireland with Protestant Scots and English for the duration of English and UK control.
Ridiculous.

Chinese migrants, mostly from Sichuan province, settle in towns and cities, and do not displace any indigenous peoples. The majority of Tibetans are herders and peasants, so they live in rural areas on the land former aristocrats left behind.

From an economic perspective, it looks increasingly like economic colonization because Han (as well as Hui) migrants tends to be able to increase their wealthy quicklier than Tibetan locals. But still, comparing this to Palestine or Ireland is a pretty big stretch of imagination.

[RedStarOverChina]

The point is, that is what they are doing now, effectively moving in rich hanchinese into the tibetan territory which of course sparks racial conflicts.

Actually, the mass majority of Han Chinese migrants are not motivated by the government, nor are they rich. They're from neighbouring Sichuan province, and are there to make money and then return home. That's what the majority of them say to me, that they want to go home as soon as they make some money. A rather small percentage remains there permanently.

[Crux]

I can understand Tibetan separatism and resentment steming from economic inequity. The income gap is widening, this is due to the criminal neo-liberal economic policies imposed by the CCP.

However, the "culture genocide" claims are ridiculous. No Tibetan are made to wear Mao suit or read Confucius. Tibetan culture, like many other cultures, are under pressure from an influx of Western culture. Tibetan youth wear jeans, go to disco clubs and play Japanese video games.

Nevertheless, there're more Tibetans literate in their language than ever before (though that's not saying much, Tibetan literacy is still the lowest among all other ethnicities, the cause of this is complex), and more Tibetan artists (bards, poets, painters) than ever before.


Ridiculous.

Chinese migrants, mostly from Sichuan province, settle in towns and cities, and do not displace any indigenous peoples. The majority of Tibetans are herders and peasants, so they live in rural areas on the land former aristocrats left behind.

From an economic perspective, it looks increasingly like economic colonization because Han (as well as Hui) migrants tends to be able to increase their wealthy quicklier than Tibetan locals. But still, comparing this to Palestine or Ireland is a pretty big stretch of imagination.
Well, my emphasis would be on "rich" rather than "hanchinese", but the fact that many of those who gain easily economically in tibet are han sparks ethnic tensions. This is, of course, not a good thing.

[Rusty Shackleford]

Well, my emphasis would be on "rich" rather than "hanchinese", but the fact that many of those who gain easily economically in tibet are han sparks ethnic tensions. This is, of course, not a good thing.

so its a case of gentrification turned racial conflict? (serious question and it kind of seems true especially in the western provinces from what i know)


anyways, a free tibet will ultimately fall even futher under the wheels of the neo-liberal train. a "free" tibet will be more reactionary and anti-worker than ROC if the Dalai Lama is placed as head of state.

even if PRC is revisionist(which it is), it still has done more for tibet than any imperialist could.

[Proletarian Ultra]

The economic situation in Tibet is the shite, as it is in Western China generally, for all ethnicities. And this is compounded for the native population by Han discrimination, which is a real problem for Tibetans as it is for other minority groups, e.g. Uighurs.

There are some within Tibet calling for independence. It is not clear to me how many or what their class position is. Other Tibetans simply want more autonomy, an end to discrimination, more funds for economic development and education etc. while retaining economic access to the rest of China.

[Crux]

so its a case of gentrification turned racial conflict? (serious question and it kind of seems true especially in the western provinces from what i know)


anyways, a free tibet will ultimately fall even futher under the wheels of the neo-liberal train. a "free" tibet will be more reactionary and anti-worker than ROC if the Dalai Lama is placed as head of state.

even if PRC is revisionist(which it is), it still has done more for tibet than any imperialist could.
Yes. And how long ago was the revolution? To be frank I think it's quite more important what they are doing now, I don't support imperialist intervention, I don't support the dalai lama. there are more than two-sides to this.

[Ocean Seal]

Interesting to offer a more optimistic look on the man, he may have drifted closer to Marxism because of what he believes is a decadence that has entered China because of their capitalism. I know that there is a resurgent communist feeling all over China because the older generation believes that capitalism has corrupted China and the younger working generation is upset that the capitalists have divided the wealth unequally with some Chinese becoming very rich and others not seeing a cent of profit.