Why are you against Nazbols?

[Delenda Carthago]

I done my homework on them.I thought they were nazis+stalinists,but thats not the case.They have nothing in common with nazis.Even their nationalism is not on a race level,but on a geopolitical level.They are antiauthoritarian and support bolshevikism.

What's the deal?

[Revy]

Um, National Bolsheviks. sounds a bit like National Socialism don't you think? And we all know what that means. Look at their flag. All they did was replace the swastika on the nazi flag with a hammer and sickle. They may not be actually just like nazis, but their ideology is not a substitute for revolutionary socialism. But then again, the Communist Party of the Russian Federation is actually a reactionary right-wing party. It is no surprise they are in league with the Nazbols. Sadly, the genuine revolutionary leftists that exist in Russia are not that popular compared to the fake left.

[Palingenisis]

In Russia the NazBols split. One group is pretty racist while the other which isnt is alligned now with the liberal critics of Putin.

[Delenda Carthago]

In Russia the NazBols split. One group is pretty racist while the other which isnt is alligned now with the liberal critics of Putin.

didnt know that,that tells the whole story... :rolleyes:



case closed.

[Palingenisis]

A lot of the Communist Parties in what used to be the Soviet block are pretty nationalist though. "National Bolshevikism" goes back even to the beginning of the USSR when certain elements in the Tsarist forces went over the revolution because they saw Bolshevikism as a way of building up a "strong Russia".

The NazBols though were founded by this bi-sexual novelist who had lived a long time in New York before returning to Russia in the 1990s.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eduard_Limonov

They were originally at least all over the place.

[Delenda Carthago]

So the left dont really got a shot in Russia,right?

[Delenda Carthago]

my last comment was on

But then again, the Communist Party of the Russian Federation is actually a reactionary right-wing party. It is no surprise they are in league with the Nazbols. Sadly, the genuine revolutionary leftists that exist in Russia are not that popular compared to the fake left.

[28350]

Because they're nazi fucks.

Any leftist term with national stuck to the front of it instantly becomes very right wing (eg. national bolshevism, national socialism, national anarchism, etc.).

[Kowalski]

I'm not sure if you talking about Russian Nazbols? Or maybe you have smbdy like them in other countries?
So I can tell what I think about Russian.

Yes, they aren't exactly the same as nazis. They have some differences :cool: But...
1) Their "geopolitical nationalism" about "Eurasian Russian Empire" and national-culture unity instead of class unity - isn't this kinda fascist idea?.. Corporative state, yeah, is it cool enough?...
2) They haven't anything "bolshevist" except the name. What's the main thing in bolshevism in comparing with menshevism? Strong discipline, concrete local organisations as base for entire movement, ideological unity. What do we see in Nazbols?
I'm not sure how to name it correctly in English, perhaps some like hangout or an order like in disco-party, not bolshevik party. Political views within the Nazbol Party different from some kinda marxist wing to truly imperial wing and liberal wing. And of course it finally get a result in split of this "party". Now they have kinda liberal part led by first their leader Limonov. Kinda imperial part, named "Natsiya svobody" ("The Nation of Liberty") and very small marxist group that have leaved Nazbols, named "Workers struggle", as I know they have 3 (three) activists.

So they are 3 independent structures now, not united party, and it's absolutely natural because of their idealogical differences within primary Nazbol party.
What's their theory? I can say that it's lack of theory.
Practice? Mainly smth like randomizer without certain goals. I don't say about that small pro-marxist group, they are more organised. But they aren't nazbols any more.

So that's what I can say about the Nazbol. Liberal-imperial right-left mix without certain ideology and with random practice. Often the practice is smth like meeting just for meeting and some clashes with police. And the PR-actions of course.

And so what? What good is here?

[Palingenisis]

my last comment was on

But then again, the Communist Party of the Russian Federation is actually a reactionary right-wing party. It is no surprise they are in league with the Nazbols. Sadly, the genuine revolutionary leftists that exist in Russia are not that popular compared to the fake left.

Would you consider the KKE to be Left or to be nationalist-populalist?

[AK]

Anyone with half a brain could see why the Nazbols are reactionary scum...
http://web.archive.org/web/20070501182900/eng.nbp-info.ru/cat19/index.html

Programm of The National-Bolshevik Party


ESSENCE OF NATIONAL-BOLSHEVISM
1. Essence of National-bolshevism is the incinerating hatred to antihuman SYSTEM of the trinity: liberalism / democracy / capitalism. The man of uprising, national-bolshevik sees his mission in destruction of SYSTEM up to the basis. On ideals spiritual courage, social and national justice the traditionalistic, hierarchical community will be constructed.

ENEMIES
2. Foreign enemies of National-bolshevism: the large Satan - USA and mondialists of Europe, incorporated in NATO and UN. Internal enemies: a class of "jackets" - boyars - bureaucrats, marauders - "new Russian", cosmopolitan intelligentsia.

THE PURPOSE
3. Global purpose of National-bolshevism is the creation of Empire from Vladivostok up to Gibraltar on the basis of Russian civilization. The purpose will be achieved in four stages: à) Transformation of Russian Federation into the national state Russia by Russian Revolution, b) Joining of the territories of former republics of the Soviet Union, inhabit by Russians c) Rallying around of Russians Eurasian nations of the former USSR. d) Creation of huge continental Empire.

THE STATE
4. Having come to power, NBP will make revolutionary on the scales of transformation in Russia, will construct the TOTAL STATE, the human rights will concede a place to the rights of a nation. Inside the country the iron Russian order, climate of discipline, bellicose and diligence will be established.
5. The parliament of Russia will consist of two Houses: House of the deputies (450 places) will be legislative and elective; the second House becomes House of the representatives (900 places), consultative and not elective. In the second House the representatives of the nation under the people offers will be put forward: the trades, ages, authorities public and religious will be submitted. The head of government will lean on House of the representatives, receiving recommendations from it.
6. Russia will be divided into strategic districts, governed from the center; the national republics and lands will be abolished, and their "presidents" are dispersed.

GEOPOLICY
7. Denounce Belovejsk conspiracy, and as a consequence, the borders of Russia will be reconsidered. Let's unite all Russian in one state. The territories of "republics," which have broken away from us, where Russian population makes more than 50 %, will be joined to Russia by realization local referendums and their support by Russia (The Crimea, Northern Kazakhstan, Narva region, etc.) Aspiration of national minorities to separatism will be ruthlessly suppressed.
8. In foreign policy we shall turn back to USA, turn by the person to Asia. On continent the friendship with Germany, Iran, India, Japan is possible.
9. We shall dissolve all of the contracts with West. First of all we shall say Fuck off to International Currency Fund. Let's refuse to give back the credits and we shall arrest all foreign investments in Russia. We shall chuck dollar out from us under back by a leg. To stop aggressive invasion of the imported goods and their low-standard mass-culture, lower iron curtain on our borders. The entry into global world market economy has killed economy of Russia. It is harmful to us. There is everything in Russia.

ECONOMY
10. Russian Socialism, economic system focused for the boon of the majority of the population will be created. The economy will be based on a principle of progressive nationalization. 5 men work at the enterprise - it can be private (individual), 55 - should be collective, 555 - is in the property regional, 5555 - belongs to the state. In the transition period NBP establish economic dictatorship.
11. Military men, budget men, pensioners, all low paid layers of the population will be completely released from the taxes. The habitation will be gratuitously transferred to usage living in it. Empty standing apartments will be turned over to the veterans of wars in Chechnya and Afghanistan, many-children and young families. We shall establish a wage level not below living minimum, room and payment for municipal services, will be frozen. Let's enter strong, fixed prices for the basic products of a feed: bread, potatoes, oil, cereals, milk, beef.
12. The soil will belong only to state, i.e. all of us. The incomes from rent of it will act in budget of the state. The state will encourage large specialized farms as on the basis of collective farms and state farms, and any facilities of a new type bringing profit to nation.
13. The export and sale outside of Russia of raw material, electric power, precious metals, gas, petroleum and weapon, and also gold will make the extremely state. It (he) will posess a defensive industry.
14. The purpose of economic reforms of NBP will be creation complete economic self-sufficiency of Russia.

CULTURE. SCIENCE. FREEDOM
15. NBP is firmly sure, that the culture should grow as a wild tree. To cut it we are not going. Complete freedom. "Do that you want" will be your unique law.
16. All vital for a nation the fundamental sciences will be financed priority from the budget of the state. By the scientist and inventors we shall create paradise conditions.
17. Freedom of a nation from aggression of mondialism is a pledge of freedom of an individual. NBP - for modernity, for modernization, avant-garde, but we are the extreme opponents of violent imposing to us of western values and foreign-made "misters teachers".

PUNISHMENTS
18. We shall judge and we shall punish guilty for a state crime accomplished by the supreme officials of the state since January 1, 1986.
19. We shall confiscate all incomes and savings of the persons, who caused to Russia economic damage deceived and gathered citizens since January 1, 1986.
20. In State Security will be generated special department for returning the Russian capitals which have flowed away abroad. The thieves will be seized there, and will be forced to give back stolen. The chiefs of swindle of funds, banks and campaigns will be given up on tearing to pieces of the depositors.
21. We shall smash criminal world. Its best representatives will go on a service of a nation and state. Others will be destroyed by military methods.
22. To the former officials of CPSU (KPSS) down to a level of the secretaries of the factory committees we shall forbid to be engaged both political, and commercial activity. The prohibition will not be distributed to the ordinary members of CPSU (KPSS).

PERSONNEL
23. NBP is not left and not right, but national party of Russians. Russian is defined not on blood and not on creed. THE ONE WHO CONSIDERS RUSSIAN LANGUARGE AND RUSSIAN CULTURE – HIS OWN, HISTORY of RUSSIA – HIS OWN HISTORY, WHO HAS SPILLED AND IS READY TO SPILL THE OWN AND ANOTHER'S BLOOD IN A NAME OF RUSSIA AND ONLY FOR IT, ANY OTHER NATIVE LAND AND NATION DOES NOT THINK, IS RUSSIAN.
24. NBP leans in it activity extremely on active minority. First of all, on socially unsatisfied youth: provincials, "businessmen", workers, military, students, marginals, militiamen. Who was nothing, that becomes Dzerjinsky, Hebbels, Molotov, Voroshilov, Chiano, Hering, Jukov. Russia all will belong to us.
25. With the purposes of prevention of degeneration of a ruling clique, as it happened with KPSS, NBP will carry out permanent revolution and purges in, and not only in it, rows.

THE SLOGAN. A GREETING. A BANNER
26. The slogan of NBP: "Russia is everything, rest is nothing!" A Greeting: thrown out forward and in the party a hand with the compressed fist, and exclamation: "Yes, Death!" Banner: red, with a white circle in the middle, in a circle a black sickle and hammer. A party symbol: the image grenade "Limonka".

1995 year It's authoritarian, blatantly imperialist, nationalist, has a deformed view of socialism and neglects to mention anything to do with the working class, the upper class or class struggle.

[Die Neue Zeit]

In Russia the NazBols split. One group is pretty racist while the other which isnt is alligned now with the liberal critics of Putin.

The other group isn't really that chummy with the liberals, since there was a recent influx of working-class youth:


National Bolshevism was developed in the 1920s in both Germany and Russia at the same time. In Germany main National Bolsheviks were Ernst Niekisch and Karlo Otto Paetel, strong nationalists and Prussia admireres who thought that not only the working class but the whole population of a country are the revolutionary forces who should overthrow the current system and build a social, Marxist-like society but also based on nationalism and militarism [as well as on bourgeois views]. They further wanted an alliance with the USSR and the isolation of Germany from the west. Niekisch dreamed of a socialist Prussian empire but he critizised Hitler heavily and called him "the German doom" in one of his books.

He was imprisoned and tortured by the Nazis but later saved by the Red Army.
Paetel also vehemently critizised the NSDAP and had to go into exile where he published his theories together with various nationalist and socialist groups.

In Russia Nikolai Ustralinov, a militant nationalist who fought for the Whites in the civil war, got strongly impressed by the achievements of the Bolsheviks later and drew the conclusion thatBolshevism together with nationalism would be the best system. He was executed for counter-revolutionary activity in 1937.

Today the most important National Bolshevik movement are the Russian "Nazbol", led by Edward Limonov, an author and ex-emigrant who returned to the USSR during Gorbachev's perestroika and glasnost.

These fellows are a strange mixture of anti-Hitler fascists and disappointed socialists, the Nazbol are a youth movement and aim at disappointed youths. They are pretty confused, in the one moment they praise the achievements of fascism and in the next they walk along communist youth groups and demonstrate against "fascist Putin" and for "true democracy". They want to combine nationalism with communism and "the positive things from the right with the positive things from the left". The sad thing is that they obviously attract some genuine leftists, who see the Nazbols as the only real vanguard, since the Nazbols are very active, there's nearly no political demonstartion in Russia without surprisingly many militant Nazbols who are known for spectacular actions like occupying a city hall during one of Putin's visits, showing banners with "The Czar won't come through!".

There are also two kinds of Nazbols, the hardcore right-wing National Bolshevik Front (NBF, smaller than the NBP), built after Alexander Dugin, who founded the NBP together with Limonov left the NBP and claimed that Linonov "sold us out to the Zionists" and Limonov's National Bolshevik Party (NBP, officially banned, but still more active than ever), wannabe "leftists", who work together with Kasparov's opposition party and communist groups. But still, they are no communists, even though the Russian media presents them like that sometimes.


The NBP is the political party/movement with the third largest youth movement in Russia and the majority seems to be of working class background. As far as I can tell mainly frustrated working class youth, disgusted by the corrupt capitalist society they live in. The impressing activity of the Nazbols - they are officially banned as a party but this makes almost no difference at all, they are very active and militant and although they are often few in numbers they know how to draw attention and how to do impressive political actions - led some genuine socialists and anarcho-communists to join their ranks because they are frustrated about the communist parties in Russia being "stuck in the past" and "debating clubs" so that they see the Nazbols as the only revolutionary force and real vanguard in Russia. At least this is the impression I got, maybe it is the impression they want people outside of Russia to get, maybe it is the truth.

[Delenda Carthago]

Would you consider the KKE to be Left or to be nationalist-populalist?

left.

[Guerrilla22]

Because national bolshevism is the most confused ideology ever.

[Dimentio]

I done my homework on them.I thought they were nazis+stalinists,but thats not the case.They have nothing in common with nazis.Even their nationalism is not on a race level,but on a geopolitical level.They are antiauthoritarian and support bolshevikism.

What's the deal?

Basically just that they are espousing fascist aesthetics and calling themselves something with Naz. Even Swedish media is calling the National Bolshevik Party of today "anarchist". The NBF are nazis, while the NBP are anti-fascists, though of a very stupid variety. They are basically just provocateurs.

[Palingenisis]

Basically just that they are espousing fascist aesthetics and calling themselves something with Naz. Even Swedish media is calling the National Bolshevik Party of today "anarchist". The NBF are nazis, while the NBP are anti-fascists, though of a very stupid variety. They are basically just provocateurs.

National-Anarchists are most confused people in politics. Mixing Evola and Guenon with Bakuinin and Strasser? It all comes down to aesthitics at the end of the day...Further proof if it was needed of the utter decadence of middle class thinking.

Check this out for a laugh... http://rosenoire.org/

Logic? Coherance? Nah...what ever seems "cool".

[Palingenisis]

Basically just that they are espousing fascist aesthetics and calling themselves something with Naz. Even Swedish media is calling the National Bolshevik Party of today "anarchist". The NBF are nazis, while the NBP are anti-fascists, though of a very stupid variety. They are basically just provocateurs.

I think the word wankers (meaning basically masturbators) would do better mo chara.

[Dimentio]

National-Anarchists are most confused people in politics. Mixing Evola and Guenon with Bakuinin and Strasser? It all comes down to aesthitics at the end of the day...Further proof if it was needed of the utter decadence of middle class thinking.

Check this out for a laugh... http://rosenoire.org/

Logic? Coherance? Nah...what ever seems "cool".

I am really mixed about the Nazbol Party really. They are not national anarchists and they are nationalist in the same manner as for example Hugo Chávez is a nationalist - i.e they view Russia as subject to foreign imperialism and to an internal oligarchy.

Nowadays, you would probably find more antisemitism, homophobia and racism in CPRF than in the current nazbol party. That an extremist party in Russia is having African guest students as members, as well as Jewish chapter leaders, is telling much - given that the Russian left in general is composed of borderline racist and fascist organisations gravitating around the CPRF.

The left nazbols should be vehemently opposed, but not really for being fascists - which they cannot possibly be defined as any more - but for being liberal douches who basically are taking money from Soros' Open Society Movement and demonstrating for Kasparov and Kasyanov.

If any left-wing nazbol, like the anti-fascist activist Vladimir Abel, would be registering here, I would maybe advocate a restriction rather than a ban. What is so tragic is how bright young people who obviously are driven by a strong pathos towards those who are weak could end up joining a party which is evidently driven by insane premises. In short, the Nazbols are the antithesis of the MIM. They seem to think that reality is a show, and is mixturing fascist aesthetics with insurrectionalist garbage applied on the Russian street.

The National Bolshevik Front, on the other side, is a nazi organisation which needs to be fought against.

Russian politics will probably end up with a large liberal-centrist party and a large conservative-centrist party anyway, given that there are signs that Edinaya Rossiya will split into two parties. Medvedev and Putin are standing quite far from one another, and the same is probably true for the rank and file members of the ERP. That would probably mean game over for the bizarre nationalist parties (CPRF and LIB-DEM) who served as protest parties against the ERP.

[Die Neue Zeit]

The left nazbols should be vehemently opposed, but not really for being fascists - which they cannot possibly be defined as any more - but for being liberal douches who basically are taking money from Soros' Open Society Movement and demonstrating for Kasparov and Kasyanov.

Either that, or the influx of working-class people in Limonov's group (and I expect more of this influx) should really see the liberals for the bankrupt politics they have ever since the czarist days of the Constitutional Democrats, the Kadets.


Russian politics will probably end up with a large liberal-centrist party and a large conservative-centrist party anyway, given that there are signs that Edinaya Rossiya will split into two parties. Medvedev and Putin are standing quite far from one another, and the same is probably true for the rank and file members of the ERP. That would probably mean game over for the bizarre nationalist parties (CPRF and LIB-DEM) who served as protest parties against the ERP.

Whatever happened to the Rodina attempt to steal votes from the KPRF?

[Dimentio]

I think the word wankers (meaning basically masturbators) would do better mo chara.

Not really. That is more fitting to movements like MIM or MSH, who do not really accomplish or try to accomplish anything except basically provoking people who are stumbling on their blogs. The nazbols are probably one of the most effective activist groups in Russia, at least in terms of high-profile actions. That their activism is ultimately fruitless and will serve nothing than to paint themselves as crazy is another thing of course.

[Dimentio]

Either that, or the influx of working-class people in Limonov's group (and I expect more of this influx) should really see the liberals for the bankrupt politics they have ever since the czarist days of the Constitutional Democrats, the Kadets.

Not very likely. The Other Russia is a very small movement and cannot possibly hope to win power without the support of at least the social liberal and neo-liberal factions of the ER Party. Since it is a small movement which is hated in Russia (because it is financed by foreign powers), it could be galvanised as some sort of opposition movement which permanently is in the position of staging illegal demonstrations to show the repression of the Russian state to western TV audiences (while most Russians just shrug their shoulders). But if anything is happening in Russia which is transforming the political climate there, it won't be because of the Other Russia, which basically just is a relic of the 1990's.

Luckily, ultranationalism is on the retreat in Russia, strangely enough after the War in Georgia, which sorta "proved" to the Russians that the state could act in a "patriotic" manner when confronted with alleged threats. Despite the financial crisis, Medvedev's presidency has seen a steady route towards some sort of consolidation of a centrist political discourse.

[AK]

Here's a Nazbol video. It clearly shows the racist and pro-Nazi tendency. Oddly enough, I saw Juche Darth Vader and some Clones in there...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bzFL20h0wfY

[Dimentio]

After having seen that video (and believe me, it wasn't easy), I need to conclude that my initial image of the nazbols have not been revised.

Basically, national bolshevism is routinely fetischising everything seen as remotely "Anti-Western" or "Evil" by western standards (Honecker as Sauron, Darth Vader as a stalinist :lol:, the Terminator :blink:). It is a really fucked up form of anti-imperialism, which basically is swallowing western propaganda about the evil empire, but turning "evil" into a positive attribute of strength (much like a five year old pretending to be a ferocious carnivorous dinosaur).

Saddam, Napoleon, Strasser, Hess, Darth Vader, Mao, Kim Il-Sung and Sauron has nothing in common except that they are seen as symbols of evil in the west. The nazbols are glorifying the Third Reich, the Soviet Union and Saddam's Iraq to show their anti-western and anti-liberal credentials.

According to Russian nationalists and anti-imperialists, liberalism and western imperialism are one. That is because right-wing politicians in Russia which are funded by the west are those who are supporting for example gay rights, civil rights and are anti-war. Thus, all kinds of liberal values (which I know most people here are subscribing to too) are seen as suspicious not only because of reactionary instinctive conservatism but because they might be funded by foreign sources which intend to weaken the own country and privatise its resources.

From the perspective of many Russian nationalists, anti-western despots in Africa, progressive movements in Latin America, and isolationist fascists in Europe are all struggling towards the same goal, the end of the American hegemony. Such tendencies are also existent outside of Russia (for example, Ahmadinejad is a political ally of both David Duke and Hugo Chávez).

The nazbols are following a warped up form of dialectics, which basically claims that the main source of conflict in the world is between traditionalist and statist continental powers (Russia, China, Iran, the Third Reich) and liberal and market libertarian sea powers (Britain, USA, the European Union, Israel). Basically, the nazbols agree with the west that "the eastern powers" are evil, but they see evil as a positive attribute, without so much defining it.

It is bizarre that nazbol propaganda is centered around totalitarian narratives and western caricatures of totalitarian narratives, when the nazbol party is constantly denouncing the "totalitarianism" of the current Russian regime and even partaking in a small liberal opposition movement which is centered around an one-issue platform of human rights.

It is also tremendously ironic that an anti-western movement is constantly seeing itself and what it claims to struggle for through western eyes, by painting itself as evil and its adversaries as good.

Clearly, Napoleon, Kim Jong-Il, Röhm, Strasser, Stalin and Pol Pot, apart from a group of fictional figures (Sauron, Vader, the Terminator) doesn't have too much in common ideology-wise, except that they all are seen as antagonists to "the good side". Hence, the propaganda is basically relying heavily on style over substance.

I am immediately thinking about troubled high school youths in dark trench-coats who are coming to school with nazi attire. It is very likely that they aren't even nazis and just want to protest in some form of messed up fashion.

Another thing in the video which could be seen as proto-fascist is the skinhead pictures. But there were images of several representatives of different subcultures there. The nazbols have routinely mixed in pictures of all kinds of subcultures, from goths to skinheads to emos. That is a way of trying to recruit young people from all segments of society.

Another example is that they have used lesbian soft-porn on their posters, most probably to attract young males. But that is also showing that they at least are indifferent to one variety of non-heterosexual behaviour.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nc4HWiH_pzw

Now, as I have described their style, let me move on to their substance.

Fascist parties have generally been different from one another depending on what country and under what circumstances they form. It is for example hard to say that there are any striking similarities between Hitler's national socialism and Mussolini's fascism (apart from their aesthetic style, which both basically ripped from the Soviet Union).

One thing which fascist parties tend to have in common is that they are hostile to the unions, to the socialist parties and seeing the left as their main enemy, no matter if the left is in power or not. In short, they are employed or self-employed guardians of the status quo in economic terms.

I have not heard that the NBP (which is basically anarcho-leftist-libertarian today) is attacking unions, worker movements or even groups which are commonly attacked in Russia. What I've seen is that they have many representatives of ethnic minorities and immigrants in their ranks, that they in 2005 protested alongside retirees and demanded the things which socialist parties usually demand.

The reason why I ain't calling the NBP fascist is not that I support them. In fact, I think they are a screwed up and unstable party which is a hindrance to progressive development on the activist scene in Russia. They seem to completely lack principles, and team up with any kind of movement which for the moment seems to have a flow (CPRF, LDPR, The Eurasianists and most recently the Other Russia). They are using a bizarre terminology.

But no, they are not fascist. Their ideology, how fucked up it is, is really nothing but a variation of the kind of "Third World nationalisms/socialisms" which sprung up in Africa, Latin America, the Arab World and Asia during the post-colonial era.

The NBP variation of nationalism and their economic policies are basically akin to Nkrumah in Ghana, Ghaddafi in Libya, Nasser in Egypt, Perón in Argentina and Chàvez in Venezuela (all of these governments espouse some similarities with fascism, minus the imperialism and the attacks against the worker movements, mostly because their bourgeoisies are tying themselves with the west).

Russia is not really a western nation. It is active in the imperialism business itself, but it is also - unlike for example America - a subject to attempts of imperialism from other nations. Therefore, nationalist movements which are blossoming in Russia do not need to be racist or fascist in the same essence as nationalist movements in the west. Fascism is not a matter of skin colour, but of substance.

There are large fascist movements in Russia, like the LDPR, the RNE and the "Movement against illegal immigration". No one is denying that the NBP have had or has certain associations with these movements. But the NBP has also had associations with the CPRF and most recently the right liberals.

The NBP are basically shameless weathervanes, with the only consistence in their policies being their anti-putinism (and stylistical anti-westernism).

Having said that, I would think it would be foolish not to try to convert some of their grassroot activists, of which many are hardened activists and anti-fascists with genuinely progressive hearts.

Besides, that video was even more strange. Its published by a guy who supports the NBF, but still is having a lot of pro-NBP aesthetics.

[AK]

What stupid nationalists... the Nazis invaded their country in WW2.

[Dimentio]

Now I recognise the cover of Manowar! XD

What the fuck does Manowar have to do with their ideology? Idiots.

[Hoggy_RS]

The early 90's style happy hardcore in the videos made me laugh!

Its funny how the Naz Bols claim to be anti-imperialist when their own ideology calls for the building of an empire across Europe built on the ideas of Russian culture.

Absolute reactionary scum.

[Dimentio]

The early 90's style happy hardcore in the videos made me laugh!

Its funny how the Naz Bols claim to be anti-imperialist when their own ideology calls for the building of an empire across Europe built on the ideas of Russian culture.

Absolute reactionary scum.

Their most recent programme was a bit less... *cough*... ambitious. Now they are apparently calling for better integrity laws in Russia and an end to political violence by the state :lol:

Guess totalitarianism is funny as long as you are on the right side of the barrel :lol:

[ed miliband]

Now I recognise the cover of Manowar! XD

What the fuck does Manowar have to do with their ideology? Idiots.

Manowar sound POWERFUL and EVIL, duh!

[Sasha]

Guess totalitarianism is funny as long as you are on the right side of the barrel :lol:

thats so going in my sig

[Dimentio]

Whatever happened to the Rodina attempt to steal votes from the KPRF?

Rodina basically split between Glazyev and Rogozin back in 2004-2005. Glazyev and his leftists were purged, while Rogozin moved the party into xenophobic and rightist waters. Then, Rodina became a part of the "Fair Russia Party", which fared badly in the last election, which saw the ERP/URP win about two thirds a majority.

Rogozin is nevertheless an important political figure in the current nomenclatura. He is Russia's ambassador to NATO, and also a prolific Russian nationalist.

[Die Neue Zeit]

Here's a Nazbol video. It clearly shows the racist and pro-Nazi tendency. Oddly enough, I saw Juche Darth Vader and some Clones in there...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bzFL20h0wfY

I think that's an NBF video, not a Limonovite video.

[GreenCommunism]

they are mostly a shock group. i think they want to cash in the resurgent nationalism in russia after the capitalist restoration. they also recently changed their symbol to an all black flag with no red. trying to distance themself from nazism.


It is also tremendously ironic that an anti-western movement is constantly seeing itself and what it claims to struggle for through western eyes, by painting itself as evil and its adversaries as good.

isn't there some similarity satanist approach to this? like that in fact satan was the good libertarian guy which allows free thought, free sexuality and freedom to gain power,knowledge and god was a totalitarian moralistic nutcase.

isn't there some parallels with nietzsche's philosophy that good or evil does not exists but are merely tools for the weak to bring down the strong?

some claimed that the nbp was an anti-semitic form of communism but i disagree, i've never once seen something anti-semitic.

as to limonov sexuality i doubt he is bisexual, not that it matters. the website is a bit juvenile and limonov's post about which race is the best lay proves this. by the way he says his best sexual experience was with a jewess. the website is quite violent too, something you would expect from a nazi website.

oh and a comrade from russia said he met some nbp and they sounded legitimate communist to him, they don't hang with skinheads at all ( he also said skinheads in russia's are pussy)

[Die Neue Zeit]

they also recently changed their symbol to an all black flag with no red. trying to distance themself from nazism.

[...]

oh and a comrade from russia said he met some nbp and they sounded legitimate communist to him, they don't hang with skinheads at all ( he also said skinheads in russia's are pussy)

Despite the Bakuninist turn, I don't know which poison to pick between these politically active "leftist Nazbols" (fascist aesthetics used ironically to promote left activism) and politically inactive shock-jock teenagers wearing Che T-shirts (in promotion of liberal activism).

[GreenCommunism]

Despite the Bakuninist turn, I don't know which poison to pick between these politically active "leftist Nazbols" (fascist aesthetics used ironically to promote left activism) and politically inactive shock-jock teenagers wearing Che T-shirts (in promotion of liberal activism).

tough choice. i personally don't think nazbol have any positive role to have in western society. there are some groups around the world and some in france. their only good role is that they are a shock group which gets member who may have some fascist sympathies. though someone who is immigrated to canada but is from the former soviet union said he'll prefer them to join akm. by the way what are the strenghs of the leftist parties who are not cooperating with putin? someone said the nazbol are the third strongest group made me wonder if they are stronger than akm.

[Crusade]

Sigh. Why is it reactionaries always have some detailed, thought out plan? :( What's our plan? Anyone?

[GreenCommunism]

if anyone want to judge for himself about their theory. http://babelfish.yahoo.com/translate_url?doit=done&tt=url&intl=1&fr=bf-home&trurl=http://theory.nazbol.ru/index.php%3Foption%3Dcom_content%26view%3Darticle% 26id%3D74:----mrbrown%26catid%3D28:current-users%26Itemid%3D2&lp=ru_en&btnTrUrl=Translate

[JacobVardy]

Sigh. Why is it reactionaries always have some detailed, thought out plan? :( What's our plan? Anyone?

1. Build community networks, co-ops, collectives and trade unions.

2. General strike.

3. Use community networks to build alternative structure to capitalist state.

4. Communism.

5. Party.

[Die Neue Zeit]

I'd skip out on co-ops, collectives, and the mass strike strategy of coming to power. It's good that you recognize the pre-war SPD model of party-organized community networks / "alternative culture" / mutual aid.

[bricolage]

I'd skip out on co-ops, collectives and the general strike. It's good that you recognize the pre-war SPD model of party-organized community networks / "alternative culture" / mutual aid.

Now you oppose general strikes?

[Dire Helix]

by the way what are the strenghs of the leftist parties who are not cooperating with putin? someone said the nazbol are the third strongest group made me wonder if they are stronger than akm.

I would say they are bigger and more active than AKM. And I think that Left Front is also bigger than AKM, though not as radical.

Here`s a video from their concert in 1994(Yegor Letov, a member of Nazbols, and his band Civil Defense perform the song "And Lenin is young once again and young October is ahead"):

youtube.com/watch?v=tk1dyKGwYB8

[Die Neue Zeit]

Now you oppose general strikes?

General strikes as a strategy vs. general strikes as occasional tactics: the former is an attempt to con the workers to taking power when they clearly aren't ready.