"Illegal Immigration" claims

[Hexen]

There's something that has been recently bothering me, I was talking to a few people the other day and they of were discussing about "Illegal Immigrates are taking away American jobs" and some bullshit like that (and they even made a suggestion about building a wall around the border), is there anyway to basically refute this claim?

Although I do notice though that most USians hold great pride over their jobs as if they actually believe it's going to get them richer/wealthier but in reality it's all just exploitation to get one person richer actually.

[Foldered]

I find the "they took our jobs" rhetoric appalling; I would have lost it on those people.

[Zapatas Guns]

There's something that has been recently bothering me, I was talking to a few people the other day and they of were discussing about "Illegal Immigrates are taking away American jobs" and some bullshit like that (and they even made a suggestion about building a wall around the border), is there anyway to basically refute this claim?

Although I do notice though that most USians hold great pride over their jobs as if they actually believe it's going to get them richer/wealthier but in reality it's all just exploitation to get one person richer actually.

Well the only reason people are migrating to the US is because of the exploitation going on in other parts of the world by the U.S. The people that are making that claim are the same ones that ***** when their price of Starbucks, McDonalds, gas, and Walmart stuff goes up.

Plus, it is a racist viewpoint. They will no doubt don't deny the claim and hide behind the "law." However, that was the same justification used for slavery and Jim Crow laws. Just because it is law doesn't make it morally justifiable. When white Europe was having problems they were able to immigrate to the US no problem. When it is Asians and/or Latin Americans the borders are conveniently closed.

[The Red Next Door]

No, the rich people took your jobs, and ship them overseas.

[Demogorgon]

There seems to be a notion that the number of jobs in a country remains the same no matter how many people are in it. This train of logic then seems to go on to conclude that if the population of a country increases then there will be fewer jobs to go around.

Hands up who can spot the logical flaw there.

[Die Neue Zeit]

Same jobs vs. less and less jobs

[GPDP]

There seems to be a notion that the number of jobs in a country remains the same no matter how many people are in it. This train of logic then seems to go on to conclude that if the population of a country increases then there will be fewer jobs to go around.

Hands up who can spot the logical flaw there.

Indeed. Thing is, though, such arguments are not really meant to make sound logical sense. They are but pseudo-justifications for racists and xenophobes to hide behind without flat out saying "we don't want any of them spics 'round these parts."

[Animal Farm Pig]

There's something that has been recently bothering me, I was talking to a few people the other day and they of were discussing about "Illegal Immigrates are taking away American jobs" and some bullshit like that (and they even made a suggestion about building a wall around the border), is there anyway to basically refute this claim?

Why should people who just happen to be born in one place have any more right to work than those who happen to be born in another place?

[AK]

No, the rich people took your jobs, and ship them overseas.
This.

And the poor "illegal" immigrants come to your imperialist country to find a better life which was taken from them by the rulers of your imperialist country.

[Tifosi]

(and they even made a suggestion about building a wall around the border)

There is already a wall (http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexico_–_United_States_barrier?wasRedirected=true) on the Mexico border.

[Obzervi]

I find the "they took our jobs" rhetoric appalling; I would have lost it on those people.
I would refute them with "you took their continent". After all, North America is stolen land since 1492.

[Antifa94]

How do you respond to the argument that all illegal immigrants should be deported? Obviously, from a marxist/human perspective we oppose this, but on a (albeit bourgeois) legal level they are indeed illegal. How can you respond to people saying these things on a legal level? What scares is the prospect of illegals being interned in concentration camps but there being a lack of uproar because non-white citizens won't have de jure discrimination.

[Red Saxon]

Wouldn't logic dictate that if there was a higher population, more jobs would be created to meet the demands of the new population.

:confused:

[AK]

Wouldn't logic dictate that if there was a higher population, more jobs would be created to meet the demands of the new population.

:confused:
That's why many employers turn a blind eye to "illegal" workers.
After all, if they get shit pay and terrible conditions, they're hardly going to complain to the authorities or take it up with their boss. Essentially, they're exempt from the law. Anarcho-capitalism at it's greatest.

[lulks]

it's amazing that in capitalism, having more people to do work is a bad thing

[AK]

it's amazing that in capitalism, having more people to do work is a bad thing
No. The Bourgeoisie make tough immigration laws so as to keep foreigners in their place; the devasted and ruined countries where the labor is cheap. Beneficial side effects include: cheap labor (from "illegals"; when they do manage to cross borders. Remember that "illegals" are basically exempt from law and fair labor practices) and working class support for the nation-state and the establishment as a whole.

[MortyMingledon]

And another point to add is that tough labor laws are a way of selecting which workers can enter. Strong, able-bodied men are much more likely to make the harsh journey and cross the border into the US than a frail old woman with arthritis. Through these racist and nationalist immigration laws, the US is filtering out all weak members of society (which they feel would "leech" on their system), but keeping it possible for strong people of work-force age to enter. Of course they give no thought to the weaker members of our international society.

[Robocommie]

And another point to add is that tough labor laws are a way of selecting which workers can enter. Strong, able-bodied men are much more likely to make the harsh journey and cross the border into the US than a frail old woman with arthritis. Through these racist and nationalist immigration laws, the US is filtering out all weak members of society (which they feel would "leech" on their system), but keeping it possible for strong people of work-force age to enter. Of course they give no thought to the weaker members of our international society.

I don't think it's so insidious and so well planned out. I honestly think that American nationalism has created the harsh immigration policies, and American capitalists merely take advantage of it because it means a second class of workers, who will work for shit wages and who can be easily exploited because they have almost no protections under the law.

[maskerade]

are there no unions in america which organize illegal workers? In sweden the syndicalists organise illegal immigrants, which i think is great

[Robocommie]

are there no unions in america which organize illegal workers? In sweden the syndicalists organise illegal immigrants, which i think is great

I would think their legal status poses a problem. Maybe IWW?

[GreenCommunism]

i think some studies claimed that the middle class and the higher class benefits from unrestrained immigration or illegal immigration, it is lower skilled workers who get some negative repercussions. the reason why the middle class benefits is that they usually work in the service industry which means that new people in a country means more customer.

i find it crazy that some people in the world are working for 10 cents an hour or so. i never thought it was so low.

[Uppercut]

It's better to just legalize them, so long as they are not engaged in any harmful activity, such as drug or arms trafficking. I usually just point out to conservatives that legalization means that there would be no more "under the table" payments, meaning there would be no discrimination on who the employers hires (at least in terms of wages). But it does bother me when immigrants talk about how terrible their own country is and how great America is. It makes me wonder how exactly they came to that viewpoint. Perhaps they don't know their own history or they simply don't care as long as they have a decent job, which then raises the question of individual prosperity vs. historical justice.