Anarchists bomb bank because they hate Kanada

[bots]

Looks like the G20 may be a gas.

http://ottawa.indymedia.org/en/2010/05/11233.shtml
(http://www.canadaeast.com/rss/article/1058142)

[ed miliband]

This kind of thing just depresses me. From the act itself, to spelling Canada like 'Kanada', to saying things about ""stolen indigenous land." It's cartoon anarchism.

[bots]

http://www.akpress.org/images/cms/692_popup.gif

[Sasha]

Witnesses have said three to four males were seen running from the scene and leaving the area in an SUV

an SUV? wut?

[The Douche]

an SUV? wut?

Whats the big deal? I used to drive a jeep...

[ed miliband]

These sound like the sort of "anarchists" who live in mud huts and eat grass lest they destroy Gaia. It's a tad ironic that they'd drive an SUV.

[jake williams]

These sound like the sort of "anarchists" who live in mud huts and eat grass lest they destroy Gaia. It's a tad ironic that they'd drive an SUV.
Or it could be cops.

[ed miliband]

Or it could be cops.

Obviously, but either way it sucks.

[Salyut]

KKKanada. Triple K's.

Also apparently they advised the Tim Hortons/whatever in Toronto to shut down for the duration of the G20. They expect trouble, but it raises the question of revolutionary direct action struggle without donuts and coffee.
:crying:

[Delenda Carthago]

An arson is not just an arson.It has very very big importance what led to it,what it did wanted to achieve and the communique that goes with it.

This communique was a joke.

And btw, the SUV doesnt say much.It might be stolen for the action.

[Dimentio]

Give me any reason to not move this thread into Chit-Chat :mad:

[Foldered]

This kind of thing just depresses me. From the act itself, to spelling Canada like 'Kanada', to saying things about ""stolen indigenous land." It's cartoon anarchism.
"Stolen idigenous land" is the last thing you should be criticizing them for. In British Columbia, land treaties haven't even been decided on yet. I'm actually surprised it took them this long to do something like this. The indigenous struggle is very much a big deal in Canada, and rightfully so.

Frankly, as long as they don't kill anybody and their symbolism reaches people through mass media, I don't really have an issue with it.

[Invincible Summer]

But given the political context in the West, do you think that the "symbolism" will have its intended effect? I think the only thing getting through to people is "Shit, these kids are dangerous, ergo their ideas are dangerous."

[Crusade]

Yes.. this act, which was clearly done by another mysterious "Anarchist", went together as planned. Our agenda is spreading, all will bow to your Anarchist masters.

http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/comment/9/2010/05/89e25dafac4272a7f681478ff7e359dc/340x.jpg

[Foldered]

But given the political context in the West, do you think that the "symbolism" will have its intended effect? I think the only thing getting through to people is "Shit, these kids are dangerous, ergo their ideas are dangerous."
I don't think so; if that was the only thing getting through, they wouldn't have mentioned all of the motivations that these people had.

Also, I'm certain these are not kids.

[IrishWorker]

Fair play to them I wont lose any sleep over a bombed bank.

Obviously the SUV was stolen.

[Lyev]

This was whilst listening to Rage Against the Machine at full volume of course. I bet the bankers and bourgeoisie and quaking in their boots, after this attack from several angsty teenagers. What is actually achieved by a stunt like this? (Apart from it making the left look infantile and moody.)

[Foldered]

These aren't angsty teenagers!

[Crusade]

These aren't angsty teenagers!

Yeah it was. Those crazy kids with their baggy pants and plastic explosives.

Stuff like this never accomplishes anything PRODUCTIVE though. I never quite understand people's mentality when they do stuff like this. I can see it being done as some kind of initiation of war, but if you're just some lone guy what kind of war are you starting? All this does is make your "cause" look dangerous. This reminds me, suspiciously, of Al Queda's random suicide bombings. The more they do crap like that the longer the Americans can use them as an excuse to stay there. Bombings like this only strengthen the state.

[Foldered]

Stuff like this never accomplishes anything PRODUCTIVE though. I never quite understand people's mentality when they do stuff like this. I can see it being done as some kind of initiation of war, but if you're just some lone guy what kind of war are you starting? All this does is make your "cause" look dangerous. This reminds me, suspiciously, of Al Queda's random suicide bombings. The more they do crap like that the longer the Americans can use them as an excuse to stay there. Bombings like this only strengthen the state.
I agree, but I want to make it clear that the people doing this are not some angst-ridden teenagers with no purpose. These are groups of indigenous taking action (whether it's justified, productive, or not); not a bunch of teenagers who got bored of doing whippits and decided to bomb a bank.

[GreenCommunism]

is there any proof they were native americans? there was some firebombing at a store in quebec who didn't respect the law on language, a law that is hardly enforced and that quebec nationalist are quite happy to have, the store changed its name after the bombing, but then 6 or 12 month later they changed the name back. not much of a difference if you ask me.

al-qaeda random suicide bombing is nothing compared to this, don't compare them. i doubt al-qaeda really exists , why wouldn't the united states place random suicide bombing in the local population to get the population on their side?

goddamit, i cant post links yet :( go on youtube and research Synthetic Terror and False Flag Operations. posting the link slightly modified wouldn't be respectful to the rules.

[Invincible Summer]

I don't think so; if that was the only thing getting through, they wouldn't have mentioned all of the motivations that these people had.

Also, I'm certain these are not kids.

Yeah I was just making a gross generalization on the "kids" part, but the rest still stands. Granted, the page was from an indymedia report, which I believe would give slightly more depth than your typical mainstream news report. However, in your post, you opined:


as long as they don't kill anybody and their symbolism reaches people through mass media, I don't really have an issue with it.
I wouldn't consider indymedia to be an organ of mass media. If we're talking about mass media, I'd look more at the mainstream media. There is where you'd probably find more of the sensationalist "home-grown terrorist anarchists ahhhhh!" sort of discourse.

Regardless, I don't think this sort of "propaganda of the deed" type stuff necessarily works the way it wants to. I mean, I'm sure we can all sympathize with the anger and other emotions that are expressed through these acts. However, like I said, the political climate does not allow for these more extreme political actions to be understood properly.

[jake williams]

The thing that sort of raises my eyebrows about this is that the radical community in Ottawa is pretty small. I feel like I'd be buying it more if this happened in Vancouver.

It doesn't seem like the "symbolic effect" here has or will be positive, it seems like the effect will to be to increase political repression of left wing groups. This certainly could be the actions of some pretty isolated folks, however well intentioned, or it could be cops. But either way, while none of us are particularly offended by shattered glass, this could have led to loss of life, and will have a lot of negative consequences regardless, without any real positive consequences apparent.

[Qayin]

Oka 1990 everywhere!

[Die Neue Zeit]

Oh boy, the testosterone is at it again. :rolleyes:

[Foldered]

is there any proof they were native americans?
I guarantee you they weren't native americans as this happened in Canada.

[Qayin]

Oh boy, the testosterone is at it again.
"The passion of destruction is a creative joy. "

[The Douche]

I guarantee you they weren't native americans as this happened in Canada.

Canada is part of north america.



Lol at white activists telling indigenous people how to wage their fight.

[bots]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HeU25_zAla4

[GreenCommunism]

I guarantee you they weren't native americans as this happened in Canada.

do you mean nativist americans who were shit scared of the catholic irish? is aboriginals a better term(though i find it hard to completly say)? there is alot of aboriginals who are activist in canada. especially in my region we are a mining and forestry place.

perhaps indigenous is a better term?

[Foldered]

do you mean nativist americans who were shit scared of the catholic irish? is aboriginals a better term(though i find it hard to completly say)? there is alot of aboriginals who are activist in canada. especially in my region we are a mining and forestry place.

perhaps indigenous is a better term?
"First Nations" is the most accepted term, as far as I know.

Canada is part of north america.



Lol at white activists telling indigenous people how to wage their fight.
Yes, it is part of north america, but I don't see how that affects calling Canadian Indigenous peoples "native american" (which they are not). There is a distinction and it is necessary that that dinstinction be made. The proper term is "First Nations."
I can't believe that you seriously just tried to tell me that Canadian indegenous peoples are to be called "native american" because "Canada is part of north america," especially considering how condescending the tone is in your post.

And I'm not "entirely" white, I have Métis heritage.

[Delenda Carthago]

lol.

why you still talk about an arson?Is that much of a deal?

[Invincible Summer]

Canada is part of north america.



Lol at white activists telling indigenous people how to wage their fight.

I don't think that's what we're doing at all (I'm also not white). I think that the critics of such actions are just criticizing the value of the action itself - the fact that they are indigenous is coincidental.

Also, if we take a completely libertarian approach to struggle (e.g. "That's their struggle, they can do whatever and it's okay because it's theirs.") it leads down a slippery slope, IMO. While obviously no one knows the struggle and context better than the actual oppressed individuals, I think critical support is better than unconditional support. What if indigenous people started committing genocide as a form of de-colonization or something?

[Crux]

Or it could be cops.
Same difference.

[The Douche]

"First Nations" is the most accepted term, as far as I know.

Yes, it is part of north america, but I don't see how that affects calling Canadian Indigenous peoples "native american" (which they are not). There is a distinction and it is necessary that that dinstinction be made. The proper term is "First Nations."
I can't believe that you seriously just tried to tell me that Canadian indegenous peoples are to be called "native american" because "Canada is part of north america," especially considering how condescending the tone is in your post.

And I'm not "entirely" white, I have Métis heritage.

Sorry if I'm missing something, but are the first nations people not native to america?

I'm not entirely white either, what value does that have in this discussion? What were seeing here, like we see constantly is activists trying to mediate/control/monday-morning quarterback the movements of the oppressed.

[jake williams]

Sorry if I'm missing something, but are the first nations people not native to america?

I'm not entirely white either, what value does that have in this discussion? What were seeing here, like we see constantly is activists trying to mediate/control/monday-morning quarterback the movements of the oppressed.
There's a big difference between real armchairs, who never support any political activity beyond theirs and their friends' criticizing of any and all other political activity - and between people who participate in political movements, try extremely fucking hard to do the tough, usually boring organizing work which, although we all have lots of failures, actually gets things done. And it's idiotic, when the latter group, who actually do useful things, criticize serious actual or potential tactical errors which actually setback the movement - it's idiotic to say that these are just armchairs trying to setback the movement.

That distinction is independent from whether or not these tactics are valuable (given it was probably the police, it may be a moot point - you're not in Canada and you don't see it day to day, but a lot of agent provacteur bullshit is being used here to ramp up police repression of activists, I have lots of friends getting CSIS visits again). The point is, a lot of people criticizing these tactics are not trying to hold back the movement, but quite the contrary - trying to encourage tactics which allow us to move forward, not to a) alienate ourselves from the Canadian working class, which doesn't support activities like this, in many cases for good reasons and b) increase police repression of activists for no real good reason, and of course c) may not actually accomplish anything which would warrant the costs it carries.

[Foldered]

Sorry if I'm missing something, but are the first nations people not native to america?
America is not synonomous with North America so, yes, you must be missing something.
Indigenous peoples in Canada are distinguished from Native Americans because they are not American. For example, Cree people are not an American indigenous group, therefore Cree people are not Native American; however, Cree people are First Nations. I was simply pointing out that the distinction is necessary.

[Invincible Summer]

Sorry if I'm missing something, but are the first nations people not native to america?

I think this is a Canadian terminology vs American terminology problem. Here in Canada, indigenous people are usually either referred to as First Nations or Aboriginals or Indigenous, usually First Nations though. From what I understand, the USA refers to its indigenous people as Native Americans or Indians.

Also, if someone could explain why Native Americans call themselves "Indians" (e.g. American Indian movement) when they're not Indian?


I'm not entirely white either, what value does that have in this discussion? What were seeing here, like we see constantly is activists trying to mediate/control/monday-morning quarterback the movements of the oppressed.
Hey, you made the reference to whiteness first.

I don't think anyone is trying to control anyone else. What I see is people expressing critical opinions of this group's actions.

Again, how far are you going to go with letting people "carry out their own struggle?" I mean, I support de-colonization and anti-imperialism, but if First Nations wanted to carry out some sort of genocide against non-indigenous people, I'd tell them to fuck off.

[The Douche]

I think this is a Canadian terminology vs American terminology problem. Here in Canada, indigenous people are usually either referred to as First Nations or Aboriginals or Indigenous, usually First Nations though. From what I understand, the USA refers to its indigenous people as Native Americans or Indians.

The term first nations is used here, but I would say the most common and least offensive term would be native or native american.


Also, if someone could explain why Native Americans call themselves "Indians" (e.g. American Indian movement) when they're not Indian?

Columbus called them that because he though he was in Asia. I'm sure the mistake was realized quite soon, but for whatever reason the term has stuck, same with calling islands off of south america the "west indies".


Hey, you made the reference to whiteness first.

Yeah, I did, unfortunately I was focusing mainly on the activist part, so thats my fault.


I don't think anyone is trying to control anyone else. What I see is people expressing critical opinions of this group's actions.

Maybe I'm just jaded, but it seems to me like a bunch of communist and anarchists activists with a leadership complex feel the need to tell the indigenous the proper way to conduct their struggle.


Again, how far are you going to go with letting people "carry out their own struggle?" I mean, I support de-colonization and anti-imperialism, but if First Nations wanted to carry out some sort of genocide against non-indigenous people, I'd tell them to fuck off.

Its a tough question, and its one I don't really have the answer to. What do reparations really entail? What does freedom really mean for the indigenous people of the americas? What does it mean for the descendents of slaves?

If somebody came to kill me and my family or drive us from my home, I wouldn't go willingly, but thats not got anything to do with the theoretical aspect of limiting the struggle of the indigenous.

[jake williams]

Also, if someone could explain why Native Americans call themselves "Indians" (e.g. American Indian movement) when they're not Indian?
Any of the English terms which would be used to refer to "them" - the native peoples of North America, or the Western Hemisphere more generally - is going to be settler terminology, and honestly "Indian" isn't much worse than any of the others. In fact, terms like "aboriginal" or "indigenous" or even "native" have pretty ugly histories, either in origin or in usage.

Contemporary usage seems to me also something of a protest against political correctness as political action - basically, it's your words anyway (partly because, at least in Canada, it was explicit and massively enforced state policy to beat, rape and murder the indigenous languages out of the peoples, and thus English is the only language a lot of people have left to speak), and using the politically correct terminology of the month will not solve our real problems. I don't know if it's conscious, but I think I've had a few conversations with native rights activists to that effect. I think it also implies a different sort of historical memory.

At any rate, I think a lot of this discussion is silly, and I think that's maybe the key point in a lot of this - it's not about language, it's about what you actually do.

[Foldered]

The term first nations is used here, but I would say the most common and least offensive term would be native or native american.
Unfortunately, you don't get to decide what is most common and least offensive. First Nations is the term used in Canada, before that, it was Indian, which is offensive. Of course native american is most common in america.

Native American is for indigenous in america, First Nations is for indigenous in canada. Does it make sense yet? You're arguing with me about things that you're not familiar with, it seems.

As for carrying their own struggle: as far as I know, all that First Nations groups want is autonomy. No genocide there; that's ridiculous

[The Douche]

Unfortunately, you don't get to decide what is most common and least offensive. First Nations is the term used in Canada, before that, it was Indian, which is offensive. Of course native american is most common in america.

Native American is for indigenous in america, First Nations is for indigenous in canada. Does it make sense yet? You're arguing with me about things that you're not familiar with, it seems.

As for carrying their own struggle: as far as I know, all that First Nations groups want is autonomy. No genocide there; that's ridiculous

Bro, chill the fuck out. You seem a little excited.

Furthermore:

http://static-p4.fotolia.com/jpg/00/06/44/45/400_F_6444543_3MyK0g3AZwHQegakblJfSpKMHI7iSyuM.jpg

That is a picture of the american continent.

Hence, my use of the term "native american", america is not synomous with the United States of America.

[Foldered]

Bro, chill the fuck out. You seem a little excited.
I am a little excited, it's frustrating that you're just not getting that there are different terms that are accepted for indigenous peoples of different areas.


That is a picture of the american continent.

Hence, my use of the term "native american", america is not synomous with the United States of America.
So indigenous mexicans should be called native americans?

[Sasha]

maybe the bombers should be placed more in the line of the "Direct Action" (canadian anarchist "urban guerilla" bombers) tradition

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Squamish_Five

bit like the dutch RaRa;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RaRa

[The Douche]

I am a little excited, it's frustrating that you're just not getting that there are different terms that are accepted for indigenous peoples of different areas.

So indigenous mexicans should be called native americans?

What makes you think I'm "not getting it"? I used the term which is the most commonly used and acceptable one for the situation in my native language. You flew off the handle about it being inappropriate (which it is not, it is just not the one most commonly used in your region). Helios handled the situation in reasonable manner, by identifying that we both mean the same thing and are using the language we are familiar with.

Are indigenous mexicans "native americans"? Yes. They are fucking, native to the continent of america. The only people who use "america" interchangeably with the US, that I know, are either backwards, young, or chauvinists. Most of my latino friends get very angry when people refer to the US as america, and are quick to point out that America includes a lot of countries (including, as relavent to this discussion, mexico and canada), making the indigenous of those countires "native americans". Its cool that you don't use that term where you come from, and I stated early that I might be missing something, I don't understand why you framed this discussion as an attack instead of saying "by the way, up here we don't say native american". You're acting like your offended by the use of the term or something, and there is no reason to, and it is doing a disservice to this thread having this totally pointless discussion.

[bots]

Sometimes I call my native friends injuns.

[Charles Xavier]

You know native American is just an ethnic distinction, its not a national identity. There are many nations across the Continent. As for bombing the bank, obviously it was a hairbrained action which the anarchists so gracefully did on behalf of the native peoples of British Colombia, who I'm sure are so happy that these morons did this action because it really advances their national liberation struggle :rolleyes:.

[bots]

Dude are you really Charles Xavier?

[Charles Xavier]

Dude are you really Charles Xavier?
obviously

[The Douche]

http://www.anarchistnews.org/?q=node/11356

Some native people support the action...then a few posts below is somebody accusing it of being done by the state.

[bots]

obviously

Shit dog, mind meld! MIND MELD NOW!

[jake williams]

maybe the bombers should be placed more in the line of the "Direct Action" (canadian anarchist "urban guerilla" bombers) tradition

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Squamish_Five

bit like the dutch RaRa;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RaRa
I have a friend who did some organizing with some people either in or around "Direct Action", anti-nuclear organizing, I forget if it was the late 70s or the early 80s. I only heard the full story second hand, but apparently they were some strange folks.

Given a lot of their attacks were against adult video stores, frankly I'd have to say their priorities were misplaced, at best.

That said, I saw Ann Hansen speak a couple years ago, about prisoner rights, and I thought she had some pretty valuable things to say.

[The Vegan Marxist]

I've seen comments of how this action wasn't very productive & would only look well if symbolized as an act of war. Well, how do we know this isn't an act of war? When are the people going to rise up & bring this system down to its knees? When people are ready to fight back & actually take a stand, they're then criticized for not being "productive" & considered as terrorists, when in fact these are indigenous activists showing resistance. We should be supporting people who are finally taking a stand & saying enough is enough.

[griffjam]

before that, it was Indian, which is offensive.

Tell that to the American Indian Movement.

[Foldered]

Tell that to the American Indian Movement.
The qualifier changes it entirely.

[The Douche]

The qualifier changes it entirely.

Do you realise that there have been AIM chapters in Canada?

(Is you mind blown right now, since canada is not part of america according to you?)

[revolution inaction]

Is there any evidence this was done by anarchists? cause it looks like the people who did it didn't call them selfs anarchists.

[The Vegan Marxist]

Is there any evidence this was done by anarchists? cause it looks like the people who did it didn't call them selfs anarchists.

Well if the police were behind this attack, & wanted it to be pinned on the Anarchists, don't you think they would've said at least, "Hey, we're anarchists.."? To me, what you pointed out rather makes the claim that the police were behind it even more ludicrous.

[Foldered]

Do you realise that there have been AIM chapters in Canada?

(Is you mind blown right now, since canada is not part of america according to you?)
Maybe a little bit. ;)
But seriously, I would never say that I am part native american. At this point, it seems like we are simply discussing semantics; you are right, native american is an ambiguous term.
EDIT: I can almost guarantee that the police weren't behind it; that makes no sense.

[jake williams]

EDIT: I can almost guarantee that the police weren't behind it; that makes no sense.
I think it's fairly unlikely, but think about how much easier it is going to be able to portray the left as being dangerous terrorists after this.

[The Vegan Marxist]

I think it's fairly unlikely, but think about how much easier it is going to be able to portray the left as being dangerous terrorists after this.

It's been hard to portray anarchists & communists as terrorists before this incident?

[revolution inaction]

Well if the police were behind this attack, & wanted it to be pinned on the Anarchists, don't you think they would've said at least, "Hey, we're anarchists.."? To me, what you pointed out rather makes the claim that the police were behind it even more ludicrous.

i din't say the police did it, just that there is no evidence it was anarchists, are the only two options you can image the police or the anarchists?

[GreenCommunism]

i was actually calling one native american indian(because that's what all the french call them) and after awhile he told me it was sort of improper and i should call them natives . :/ i can't imagine myself saying the term in french though, and neither would i use first nation instead of some ethnic term.

in fact he was an english speaker just like the community that lives in my village, but i wouldn't know how to name the first nation or native american with french speaking natives.

[jake williams]

It's been hard to portray anarchists & communists as terrorists before this incident?
At least here, yeah, it would be a lot more difficult to do so before this particular incident.

[bots]

i was actually calling one native american indian(because that's what all the french call them) and after awhile he told me it was sort of improper and i should call them natives . :/ i can't imagine myself saying the term in french though, and neither would i use first nation instead of some ethnic term.

in fact he was an english speaker just like the community that lives in my village, but i wouldn't know how to name the first nation or native american with french speaking natives.

yeah i've always used "native" unless i'm fucking around. ask him what nation he's from and get some history about his people.

probably a different relationship between french/native and english/native though from the history we learned in school you frenchies were better to them than we were.

[GreenCommunism]

he's algonquin. while we may have treated them better our relations are not better. and in the recent years with the scandals of natives being kidnapped and sent into schools where they were abused things aren't pretty. at least we didn't reward our people for each of native killed.

i think there is alot of anonimosity between the french speaking canadian and the natives for some reason. i always said it was the bourgeoisie dividing and conquering, but maybe it is only my region, there is alot of tree cutting and mining and very active native american activism. thus the french speaking canadian see them as obstacles to jobs whenever they protest. yet again it is not a fight between french or natives it is a fight between the natives and the company trying to do business on their ancestral land.

[bots]

he's algonquin.


well then I would just call him "Algonkee the Donkey", especially if hes any kind of ladies man.

you hitting up the G20 meeting at the end of June?

[GreenCommunism]

lol not sure if he would take that as an insult. where is the g20 meeting? i live somewhat far away from both ontario and quebec capital.

[Charles Xavier]

lol not sure if he would take that as an insult. where is the g20 meeting? i live somewhat far away from both ontario and quebec capital.


Toronto, june 25th

[Robocommie]

Or it could be cops.

Not trying to make it sound like I think the cops are above that, but why? Is there a strong enough anarchist movement in Canada that would cause them to want to go to such lengths to discredit them?

[jake williams]

Not trying to make it sound like I think the cops are above that, but why? Is there a strong enough anarchist movement in Canada that would cause them to want to go to such lengths to discredit them?
The last year or two especially of the Harper government have been characterized by, among other things, a crackdown on the radical left. The bombing resulted in the second round of mass CSIS harrassment of well-known activists in the last few months. It is partly related to events like the Olympics and the G20 - and the resistance against them - but there's a general feeling/understanding here that the national security state, which prior to Harper was pretty small here, is going to long outlast "riot 2010". Actions like these, sometimes with police involvement and sometimes without, is routinely a pretext for repression of non-violent activism (not that I always agree with non-violence as a tactic, and I despise it as a dogma, but the people carrying out these acts have to understand their consequences of the movement as a whole, especially when they do almost none of the consciousness-raising work required to explain why they've done what they've done, because they don't want to talk to people who aren't as hip/radical as they are). The assault by the ruling class right now in Canada, and especially the state itself, is one of the most intense in the world, but the fightback is far too weak, especially outside Quebec. One might argue in this context that violent actions escalate the fightback, except that they haven't had this effect - they've had the effect of alienating many peoplefrom radicals and, however ridiculous it might be, often to the support of the Harper government and his "anti-crime" programs which of course mostly serve to strengthen the capacity of the state to suppress dissent. Harper may have suffered in recent polls, but the anger against him is being poorly organized.

The context, of course, is that the Harper government is at least the most right wing government in the last two decades, and relative to the international political situation, one of the most right-wing governments in Canadian history, especially post-Bennett. The Harper government regularly performs some of the ugliest activities taken on by the international ruling class, playing important roles stalling climate change solutions and financial reform. He's also unusually authortarian, keeping his cabinet on a tight leash, centralizing power in the prime minister's office, and eliminating precisely the transparency and accountability in government that was virtually his entire campaign when he ran in 2006.

In short, the Canadian state under Harper is a very scary thing indeed.

[bots]

luckily for us imposition of order = escalation of chaos.

[GreenCommunism]

In short, the Canadian state under Harper is a very scary thing indeed.

i didn't realize how bad the man was, but then again the merger of the conservative with the canadian alliance did sound like bad news. the canadian alliance was always the bad rightist guy. though i was sort of young when they existed. perhaps 16?

[blake 3:17]

I'm living the G20 this month. You can imagine my enthusiasm following the arson. It isn't unreasonable to think that intelligence/police were involved in it. Federal forces also employ a fair number of unstable people that carry out effed up sh*t.

There've been no arrests so far? It's either cops or relative fuck ups. Likely both.

[blake 3:17]

A useful analysis from Ontario eco-socialists: http://www.socialistproject.ca/bullet/358.php

[Salyut]

Gonna bump this with the news that they've charged three people. (http://www.cbc.ca/canada/ottawa/story/2010/06/19/firebombing-charges.html)

The CBC peanut gallery is out in full force.

[Lulznet]

But given the political context in the West, do you think that the "symbolism" will have its intended effect? I think the only thing getting through to people is "Shit, these kids are dangerous, ergo their ideas are dangerous."

I think the intended effect was symbolism as well. :thumbup1:

At that firebombing a bank can be quite an effective method as has been shown in the past when used by Anarchists.

[Eastside Revolt]

Ottawa Movement Defense
RBC FIREBOMBING ARRESTS UPDATE
Saturday, June 19th

This email contains the most current information about the individuals
arrested in relation to the May 18th firebombing of an Royal Bank of
Canada branch in Ottawa, Ontario.

Thank you to everyone who came out today to support the accused!

============
CONTENTS
============

1. Update on Court Proceedings
2. Note of Caution to Friends and Supporters
3. Donating to Legal Fund
4. Donating via Pay Pal
5. Media Inquiries and General Contact Information

==================================
1. UPDATE ON COURT PROCEEDINGS
==================================

On the morning of Friday, June 18th, 4 people were arrested in Ottawa
in connection to the May 18th firebombing of RBC branch in Ottawa, ON.
One of those individuals was released last night with no charges. The
remaining 3 people appeared in court today in Ottawa, and each has
secured legal counsel for their defence.

The bail hearings for all 3 have been held over until next week,
possibly Friday, June 25, though that date is not confirmed. The
arrestees are being transferred to the Ottawa Carleton Detention
Centre, and will appear via video in court on Monday, June 21, to set
a firm date for their bail hearings. We will update everyone once a
specific date and time are set.

The charges and names of the three individuals are, as reported by CBC
Ottawa are:

Roger Clement, of Ottawa, charged with arson causing damage,
possession of incendiary material, using explosives with intent to
cause property damage, and mischief

Mathew Morgan-Brown, of Ottawa, charged with arson, arson causing
damage, possession of incendiary material, using explosives with
intent to cause property damage, and mischief.

Claude Haridge, of Ottawa, charged with arson, careless storage and
handling of ammunition, and mischief.

Source:
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/ottawa/story/2010/06/19/firebombing-charges.html


More than 50 friends, family and colleagues were present in court
today to support the 3 arrestees. Thank you to everyone that came out.
It's vital we make it clear to the Crown, to the cops, and to the
media that these three individuals are part of our communities and
that we won't allow them to be railroaded or treated unfairly by the
justice system. Again, thank you so very much for all the support we
received on such short notice.

===============================================
2. NOTE OF CAUTION TO FRIENDS AND SUPPORTERS
===============================================

Please be careful when discussing this situation publicly, including
online and to the media, as incautious statements may compromise the
ability of the accused to defend themselves in court.

Now that this matter is before the courts, we need to ensure the Crown
is able to base its case only on substantive evidence, rather than
relying on sensational or incautious public comments.

In particular, IT IS THE POSITION OF OTTAWA MOVEMENT DEFENSE THAT
SPEAKING VOLUNTARILY TO THE POLICE WILL PREJUDICE THE DEFENSE OF THE
ACCUSED AND MAKE THEIR COURT PROCEEDINGS MORE DIFFICULT.

ANY STATEMENT MADE TO THE POLICE OR MEDIA CAN BE USED AGAINST THE
ACCUSED, REGARDLESS OF WHETHER IT IS HYPOTHETICAL OR BASED ON
DISTORTED INFORMATION.

No matter how friendly or intimidating police may appear, or how
clever you think you might be in getting information out of them,
nothing good can come of voluntarily talking to the police.

If police contact you, please let us know as soon as possible at
[email protected]

==============================
3. DONATING TO THE LEGAL FUND
==============================

Right now, financial support is crucial for two reasons. The first is
that, while it is unclear at this time what possible bail conditions
the Crown may ask for, or even if they will consent to releasing the 3
arrestees, we may need to put forward a significant amount of money
for bail. We're very grateful to everyone that has contributed
already. But we may need a considerable amount more.

Unfortunately, as bail conditions weren't discussed at all in court
today, we are unable to provide more specific information at this
time.

The second reason is that we must begin fundraising for ongoing legal
costs, which will be significant. All indications are that this could
be a lengthy and involved proceeding and, while we can't speculate at
this time where it will end up, a trial could be a year or more away.

If you are able to donate any money, please contact us the Pay Pal
account (described below) or contact us at
[email protected] and indicate if you would like to
contribute to bail, legal costs, or both.

========================
4. DONATING VIA PAY PAL
========================

To donate to the legal defense fund via PayPal, please follow the
below instructions:

1.Go to http://www.paypal.com/sendmoney

2. Type in [email protected] in the "To" box.

3. Type in your email address in the "From" box

4. Type in Amount and find CAD (Can Dollars) in the menu to the right.

5. Click on the "Personal" Tab and check the button "Gift".

6. Click "Continue".

7. The next page will ask you to either Log In to your paypal account
or sign up for an account. If you sign up for an account, you can link
up your account to your credit card or bank account.

8. For all transactions, there is a charge of 2.2% of the amount +
$0.30. You can decide whether you will pay this amount or the Ottawa
Movement Defense (in which case this amount is deducted from the
amount you are giving).

================================================== =
5. MEDIA INQUIRIES AND GENERAL CONTACT INFORMATION
================================================== =

You can reach Ottawa Movement Defense at:
[email protected]
613 304 8870

[Die Neue Zeit]

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/ontario/police-seize-hundreds-of-bullets-in-arrests-of-three-ottawa-men/article1610464/


Police say they seized hundreds of bullets while raiding a group of suspected anti-capitalist arsonists who are accused of firebombing an Ottawa bank.

However, they retreated from Saturday's initial claims they had recovered “sniper”-grade ammunition – .50-calibre bullets – during Friday's raids.

“Ottawa Police did not recover .50-caliber ammunition as stated,” the police force said in a statement Saturday afternoon.

They said they recovered “hundreds of rounds” of 7.62-millimetre bullets in boxes with “.50 caliber markings.”

The clarification made the seizure somewhat less alarming, as the latter category of round is less restricted and can be more easily acquired through legal means.

Police remain concerned that one of the three suspects accused of firebombing a bank had bullets, even though they charged him only with “careless storage” of ammunition.

Waco, anybody?

[Eastside Revolt]

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/ontario/police-seize-hundreds-of-bullets-in-arrests-of-three-ottawa-men/article1610464/



Waco, anybody?


Waco like the pigs with unlimited guns and ammo?

Waco like people who are more upset by a burnt bank, than daily genocide and exploitation?

Waco like they haven't even been convicted?

[REVLEFT'S BIEGGST MATSER TROL]

Kanada?

Seriously? :rolleyes:

[Eastside Revolt]

Kanada?

Seriously? :rolleyes:

Hate to get into a trolling war but....

Yes "Kanada" or "KKKanada" as in a settler-state, north of the United States that like the United States was founded on white-supremacy, hence the "K".

[Yazman]

I'm certainly not going to lose any sleep over the loss of a BANK.

[Foldered]

I'm certainly not going to lose any sleep over the loss of a BANK.
I'm not sure the point of it had anything remotely to do with you losing sleep.

[Salyut]

They said they recovered “hundreds of rounds” of 7.62-millimetre bullets in boxes with “.50 caliber markings.”

...So he enjoyed target shooting/hunting with surplus ammo? You can buy the .50 ammo boxes all over the place.


Haridge also faces charges of careless storage and handling of ammunition.

I wonder if they'll roll out a ammunition registry now, they wanted to do that with ammonia nitrate after a guy bought some for his orchid a few weeks back. :laugh: