Two Questions

[RedPaladin]

I have two questions to ask here.

Some people think that with the use of robot or other automatic non-human labours, the surplus value is no longer exist.
I thought must be a kind of sophistry from those capitalist economist, but how can we prove it was wrong?

There are many people now no longer believe socialist revolution, especially in PRC mainland. In other word that they lose the delight of socialist revolution.
Perhaps it is because that they were shocked too much from the Culture Revolution and the movement of People's Community which forced people turn private ownership into public ownership. Such people believe that free market is always better than central planning, private ownership is always better than public ownership.
They often ask such questions: Why the life of people who live in capitalist country is better than ours, and they have more democracy?
How can we presuade them?

[autonomous bomb thrower]

I think the view of western capitalist nations as more prosperous is a romanticized distortion of reality. This view of a more democratic state falls under the same romantic view as the former. There is no decisions in the peoples hands, the people have no say in politics beside the representatives who represent nothing but the interests of the bourgois state. To change your countries mind you must show them the truth of western democracies by unveiling what interests the state really takes into account: that of the rich.

[RED DAVE]

I have two questions to ask here.

Some people think that with the use of robot or other automatic non-human labours, the surplus value is no longer exist.
I thought must be a kind of sophistry from those capitalist economist, but how can we prove it was wrong?Robots are tools. They do not negate the production of surplus value any more than any other automated tool does.


There are many people now no longer believe socialist revolution, especially in PRC mainland. In other word that they lose the delight of socialist revolution.

Perhaps it is because that they were shocked too much from the Culture Revolution and the movement of People's Community which forced people turn private ownership into public ownership. Such people believe that free market is always better than central planning, private ownership is always better than public ownership.

They often ask such questions: Why the life of people who live in capitalist country is better than ours, and they have more democracy?
How can we presuade them?We have to start with the fact that the PRC was never socialist. It was state capitalist. Its central planning was the same kind of planning as is done in any corporation. And it is private capitalism now. Once that is understood, the necessity for revolution can be understood.

RED DAVE

[bie]

Some people think that with the use of robot or other automatic non-human labours, the surplus value is no longer exist.
And this is the reason why the automation will never succeed under capitalist-type economy. A couple years ago we were told that the automatic production will substitute a manual labor. Does it actually happened? No. Instead the manufacturing has been outsourced to the countries of very cheap labor. The reason is quite simple. The human labor as the commodity is cheaper than the usage and maintenance of the machines. This is also another example of how the technological progress and its applications are being limited by the existing capitalist relations of the production. So as the conclusion - the theory of the "extinction of proletaryat" is very false since it is more profitable to hire cheap labor than to buy and maintain the machine.

[ArrowLance]

Some people think that with the use of robot or other automatic non-human labours, the surplus value is no longer exist.
I thought must be a kind of sophistry from those capitalist economist, but how can we prove it was wrong?

Machines gain their value from human labour, and then they lose it while creating products. Eventually the machine is either fixed up or replaced, adding more value by human labour so that more value can be infused into products through the machine. If anything it can only be said that the surplus value increases with the use of machines, otherwise it would be unprofitable for society to create them.

[RedPaladin]

I think the view of western capitalist nations as more prosperous is a romanticized distortion of reality. This view of a more democratic state falls under the same romantic view as the former. There is no decisions in the peoples hands, the people have no say in politics beside the representatives who represent nothing but the interests of the bourgois state. To change your countries mind you must show them the truth of western democracies by unveiling what interests the state really takes into account: that of the rich.

It's true that the prosperity and democracy is only the romanticized distortionof reality, but there is even less democracy in PRC:
Anything that is against or disagree with CPC's official idealology is banned. This is the so-called "central-democracy". Students at school are force to learn the Marxism theory which revised by the bureaucrat in a dogmatist way, which makes them tired of it.

People have even less right on politic than those in capitalist nations. Parade and rally are illeagal without annoucing the goverment before doing so. Even work's striking is not allowed. The trade union exist only in its name.
CPC bureaucrats explain those things in the simply reason "in order to keep the society in a stable statue".

[lulks]

Some people think that with the use of robot or other automatic non-human labours, the surplus value is no longer exist
the value of commodities produced by a machine comes from the labor used to create the machine. all value is still from labor, and any profit from selling the commodities is surplus value