Naxalites kill six villagers in Chhattisgarh?

[The Vegan Marxist]

Does this really make sense to anyone, since even the article points out how the attacks led by the Naxalites were towards police officials, not villagers. And the way they just left the bodies & the attacks, it just doesn't add up to as a Naxalite-led attack.

Naxalites kill six villagers in Chhattisgarh

Raipur: Six villagers, including a sarpanch, were killed by Naxalites near Teregaon in Rajnandgaon district of Chhattisgarh in the early hours of Sunday, police said.

Police officials told PTI that at Teregaon, Unchapur and Korcha, which fall under the Manapur police limits, Naxalites killed the villagers and threw their bodies outside the villages.

A police team has been sent to the spot, they said adding, “We expect to get more information on the incident after recovering the bodies.”

Rajnandgaon district had witnessed a series of Naxalite attacks in the past. In July last, Maoists attacked a police party, killing 29 personnel, including Superintendent of Police Vinod Kumar Choubey.

Naxalite violence in Chhattisgarh has seen a rise in recent months, with the rebels killing 76 security personnel in Dantewada district on April 6. It was considered the heaviest attack on security forces in recent years. On May 8, eight paramilitary personnel were killed in a landmine blast in Bijapur district. — PTI

Sib Kumar Das reports from Berhampur:

Maoists shot dead a police constable at a village market at Padia under the Kalimela police station in Malkangiri district of Orissa on Sunday.

The incident happened at noon when constable P. Ram Chandra Rao was on patrol. Four Maoists shot him dead at close range. There was a big crowd in the market at the time of the incident and most of them fled in panic.

Sources in the Malkangiri district police headquarters said the Central Reserve Police Force and Special Operations Group personnel at the Kalimela Police Station, which was 30 km away, were sent to Padia.

Police outpost blasted

Maoists blasted a police outpost at Padia on the night of March 24, 2009. Since then the outpost has been functioning from the police station. Policemen like Rao, who were posted to this outpost, were travelling to Padia every day for duty.

http://www.thehindu.com/2010/05/17/stories/2010051759130100.htm

[Red Commissar]

Well, it is from the "Hindu" which is a fairly conservative paper as far as Indian politics go. It could easily be written off as a naxalite attack and their readers would buy it.

If the naxalites are responsible for it, these civilians may have been part of the salwa judum, who are civilians armed by the state to fight them.

[pranabjyoti]

Very often local lumpen and anti-naxal goons have marked as "civilians" or villagers by media, where they had been attacked.

[Devrim]

I think events like this are quite frequent. When I was in India recently, I saw newspaper articles like this often. There are various possible explanations. One is that it was done by the state. In our country in the recent past the armed forces regularly burnt down villages, and murder people, and then blamed it on Kurdish nationalists. I would be surprised if these sort of events don't also occur in India. A second would be that the Maoists had decided to punish somebody who had done something like informing on them to the Police. I would imagine that this too is common practice. A third possibility is that it is local Maoists deciding to settle some sort of personal score under the guise of a political action. It would be very nieave to think that things like this never happen.

Devrim

[NaxalbariZindabad]

Yes, we can imagine lots of things.
What's the utility of such mind inventions however, I have no idea.

[Devrim]

Yes, we can imagine lots of things.
What's the utility of such mind inventions however, I have no idea.

To offer an explanation to somebody in the US asking questions, who has no experience of living in a country where a guerilla war is waging, the sort of things that happen in these situations.

Devrim

[The Vegan Marxist]

To offer an explanation to somebody in the US asking questions, who has no experience of living in a country where a guerilla war is waging, the sort of things that happen in these situations.

Devrim

As much as Devrim & I disagree on many subjects, I'd have to agree with Devrim. These situations are varied in such, & we should remain open minded about these occurrences. Though, we also have to keep in mind the level of attacks, the attacks themselves, & also who exactly these attacks may benefit more in the long run.

[pranabjyoti]

http://revolutionaryfrontlines.wordpress.com/2010/05/17/orissa-police-attack-1500-villagers-at-site-of-planned-posco-steel-plant/#more-3276
It's an old strategy of state, specially Indian state to organize a section of a class and/or community against the class and/or community itself in case of the possibility or real existence of some kind of revolutionary struggle. When this state backed militia is under counter attack, the media starts foul crying saying "common people under attack".
In West Bengal, the CPI(Marxist) used this tactics very well for a long time. Whenever, workers want to organize for some struggle, CPI(Marxist) organized workers from other factories, who are under CITU (a CPI(Marxist) backed labor organization) to attack those workers. In Nandiagram region, they organized their supporter, who are basically peasants and villagers, to attack the fighting people of Nandigram.
Kindly try to understand that there are always some kind of greedy, fickle minded and corrupted people in every class, even in working class too. The bourgeoisie searched an nourished those section to control the workers and I CLEARLY WANT TO SAY THAT ATTACKING THEM ISN'T ATTACK ON WORKING CLASS. The same is true for peasants and perhaps for every community and class around the world who are now struggling. WE HAVE TO MAKE A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN LUMPEN AND REVOLUTIONARIES. This lumpen section may be poor or part of working or any struggling class or organization, but in fact they are agents of imperialism and bourgeoisie among us. THEY SHOULD BE ELIMINATED.

[Starport]

Note: I was not allowed to print the link.

It's an old strategy of state, specially Indian state to organize a section of a class and/or community against the class and/or community itself in case of the possibility or real existence of some kind of revolutionary struggle. When this state backed militia is under counter attack, the media starts foul crying saying "common people under attack".
In West Bengal, the CPI(Marxist) used this tactics very well for a long time. Whenever, workers want to organize for some struggle, CPI(Marxist) organized workers from other factories, who are under CITU (a CPI(Marxist) backed labor organization) to attack those workers. In Nandiagram region, they organized their supporter, who are basically peasants and villagers, to attack the fighting people of Nandigram.
Kindly try to understand that there are always some kind of greedy, fickle minded and corrupted people in every class, even in working class too. The bourgeoisie searched an nourished those section to control the workers and I CLEARLY WANT TO SAY THAT ATTACKING THEM ISN'T ATTACK ON WORKING CLASS. The same is true for peasants and perhaps for every community and class around the world who are now struggling. WE HAVE TO MAKE A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN LUMPEN AND REVOLUTIONARIES. This lumpen section may be poor or part of working or any struggling class or organization, but in fact they are agents of imperialism and bourgeoisie among us. THEY SHOULD BE ELIMINATED.

This has the whiff of the patient but firm understanding that the young communists in the west are beginning to grasp grasp at last. This economic crisis is going to be our best recruiting officer and educator of conscious revolutionaries in our millions.

[Devrim]

The same is true for peasants and perhaps for every community and class around the world who are now struggling. WE HAVE TO MAKE A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN LUMPEN AND REVOLUTIONARIES.

The question that arises is what class the so-called 'revolutionaries' represent.


Kindly try to understand that there are always some kind of greedy, fickle minded and corrupted people in every class, even in working class too. The bourgeoisie searched an nourished those section to control the workers and I CLEARLY WANT TO SAY THAT ATTACKING THEM ISN'T ATTACK ON WORKING CLASS.

Most workers at the moment are dominated by bourgeois ideology. Does that mean that they should be attacked, or should communists argue and discuss with them?


This lumpen section may be poor or part of working or any struggling class or organization, but in fact they are agents of imperialism and bourgeoisie among us. THEY SHOULD BE ELIMINATED.

Do you really believe this?

Devrim

[Starport]

Scabs are workers! The Nuremberg Rally was full of workers!
Workers are often encouraged to support reaction. When we talk about the 'working class', we are discussing the 'class as a class' with distnctive revolutionary relations with other classes. We are not talking about the individual atributes of every worker. What do you thing we should do about scabs in the workplace?

[Devrim]

What do you thing we should do about scabs in the workplace?

I think that it is best if you can persuade them to join struggles by force of argument. Sometimes violence has to be used, but is generally a reflection on the weakness of a movement rather than its strength.

I don't think that the answer is this:


THEY SHOULD BE ELIMINATED.

Devrim

[The Vegan Marxist]

Violence should only be used against those that you know will be an enemy to the proletarian struggle. Other than that, I'd recommend debating your cause in order to gain numbers.

[pranabjyoti]

The question that arises is what class the so-called 'revolutionaries' represent.
Well discussed before, I don't want to repeat.

Most workers at the moment are dominated by bourgeois ideology. Does that mean that they should be attacked, or should communists argue and discuss with them?
If they oppose the ideology of the working class, THEN CERTAINLY. As for example, a ritual of burning women alive were practiced in India during eighteenth century. Raja Rammmohan Roy, a social reformer stopped it. But, when he was trying to do so, many people even many women were against him. Do you think he should be DEMOCRATIC and wait until the population will come to some level of enlightenment?

Do you really believe this?
Devrim
CERTAINLY, WITHOUT ELIMINATING THEM, THERE CAN BE NO PROGRESS. REVOLUTION ISN'T DEBATE CLASS OR PICNIC PARTY.

[Starport]

"Only he is a Marxist who extends the recognition of the class struggle to the recognition of the dictatorship of the proletariat. This is touchstone on which the real understanding and recognition of Marxism is to be tested." :Lenin

[Chambered Word]

CERTAINLY, WITHOUT ELIMINATING THEM, THERE CAN BE NO PROGRESS. REVOLUTION ISN'T DEBATE CLASS OR PICNIC PARTY.

'Revolution is violent.'

Yes, it does tend to be. The question is whether all of the violence being carried out in the name of revolution is necessary. :rolleyes:

Quotes from Mao aren't a cop-out of every argument.

[Starport]

'Revolution is violent.'

Yes, it does tend to be. The question is whether all of the violence being carried out in the name of revolution is necessary. :rolleyes:

Quotes from Mao aren't a cop-out of every argument.

Actually this isn't quite true. No one is talking about ALL THE VIOLENCE being carried out in the name of revolution. We were only talking about the violence connected with this incident.

And no one yet can prove (as hard as they try) that the Maoists are deliberately targeted civilians. All the rest is speculation and much of it is nasty reactionary speculation constantly and slyly trying to finger the Maoists for an atrocity.

There is a lot of squirming discomfort from those who have not yet fully understood the Marxist theory of revolution and the necessity for dictatorship of the proletariat and the violence required to achieve it.

No communists want to kill anyone. And our opponents no that. But they also know we will if we think we have to. And yes, only the communists will be making that decision and sometimes they will make a better job of it than other times.

We will certainly not be surrendering our capacity to act to any kangaroo court of high moral imagination.

Tell the warlords of imperialism to put down their arms and see what they say. See if they will back down in the face of your moral indignation.

[Devrim]

CERTAINLY, WITHOUT ELIMINATING THEM, THERE CAN BE NO PROGRESS. REVOLUTION ISN'T DEBATE CLASS OR PICNIC PARTY.

I think that socialism can only be made by the active participation of the vast majority of the working class. I don't think it can be made by gangs led by 'middle class' intellectuals 'eliminating' workers.

Devrim

[Starport]

I think that socialism can only be made by the active participation of the vast majority of the working class. I don't think it can be made by gangs led by 'middle class' intellectuals 'eliminating' workers.

Devrim

Comrade you are absolutely one 100% correct in this.
But 'socialism' is not what this and other similar threads are about really. This thread as is enevitable under existing conditions of generalised uprising everywhere has become to be about the revolutionary class struggle for the taking of power which is a struggle taking place on the planet - absolutly everywere without exception.

The lines between class interests are often complex, unclear, ambiguous but the one thing that is going to sort out much of that misunderstanding is this economic disaster which the capitalists are struggling with now.

Class struggle happens spontaneously and violently whether we 'like' it or not. Our job is not to condemn this spontainious fight that will allways happen, our job is to understand the reasons and explain them so that the working class as a class can make up their own minds.

[pranabjyoti]

I think that socialism can only be made by the active participation of the vast majority of the working class. I don't think it can be made by gangs led by 'middle class' intellectuals 'eliminating' workers.

Devrim
First, "vast majority" rarely participate in the whole process. During 1789, the Great French Revolution is limited only in Paris and suburbs. Most of the French people, who were peasants, hadn't participated in the Revolution THOUGH THEY WERE THE MAJORITY THAT HAVE BENEFITED BY THE REVOLUTION. The same can also be true about any revolution in almost any country. Popular upraise was observed at the height and even it isn't an unavoidable part.
Keep your eye on THAILAND, IT WILL BE GOING TO SHOW US WHERE A MASS UPRISING EVEN WITH RIGHT CAUSE CAN END WITHOUT THOSE "GANG OF INTELLECTUALS" LEADING COMMON PEOPLE.

[Devrim]

Class struggle happens spontaneously and violently whether we 'like' it or not. Our job is not to condemn this spontainious fight that will allways happen, our job is to understand the reasons and explain them so that the working class as a class can make up their own minds.

Class struggle does erupt spontaneously. I don't think that armed political groups like the Maoists form spontaneously, but then again I don't think it is class struggle.

Devrim

[Devrim]

First, "vast majority" rarely participate in the whole process. During 1789, the Great French Revolution is limited only in Paris and suburbs. Most of the French people, who were peasants, hadn't participated in the Revolution

It wasnt a socialist revolution though.

Devrim

[pranabjyoti]

It wasnt a socialist revolution though.

Devrim
During the 1917 and even some time afterwards, a large section of peasants weren't supporter of Bolsheviks, but rather of Socialist Revolutionaries. In China, a continuous guerrilla struggle by Mao and CPC ultimately end in revolution, not some kind of spontaneous peasant revolution.
And Thailand just showed what can be the ultimate end of a really peoples uprising without those "gang of middle class intellectuals". Even in Cuba, before the arrival of Granma, there wasn't any condition which we call a "hotbed of revolution". Still Cuban revolution is successful.

[Steve_j]

And Thailand just showed what can be the ultimate end of a really peoples uprising without those "gang of middle class intellectuals".

?
It was led in a non democrtic manner by a bunch of middle class interlectuals, and they handed themselves in and told everyone to go home, despite the fact that many wanted to stay and continue the struggle, i think it just goes to show the contempt that leadership often has for those under them.

[pranabjyoti]

?
It was led in a non democrtic manner by a bunch of middle class interlectuals, and they handed themselves in and told everyone to go home, despite the fact that many wanted to stay and continue the struggle, i think it just goes to show the contempt that leadership often has for those under them.
My post is against the post of Devrim, who want to mean by "a gang of middle-class intellectuals" is the vanguard party of the proletariat. Thailand lacks the leadership and we now know the end. This is certainly a clear example of what I want to say.