Autonomists

[StoneFrog]

Autonomists what do they do in none revolutionary times?
I support the concept but, what do they do until people start rising up? When thinking of it i get a picture of people sitting around on beach chairs, waiting.. =P

[Weezer]

Greece bro Greece

[StoneFrog]

well you signature would suggest Anarchists drink herbal tea not coffee...

Other movements seem to create unions and parties, i mean not doing much would kinda be a bit demoralizing no? Just waiting for people to spontaneously rise up, i have no doubt that the time will arise. But i am sure there are means to help it along.




Greece bro Greece

So all the autonomists should move to greece in order to help that fig

[ContrarianLemming]

well you signature would suggest Anarchists drink herbal tea not coffee...

Other movements seem to create unions and parties, i mean not doing much would kinda be a bit demoralizing no? Just waiting for people to spontaneously rise up, i have no doubt that the time will arise. But i am sure there are means to help it along.

I assume autonomusts, being libertarian marxists, do all the same things council communists and ancoms do. They start orginizations, spread propaganda etc. They're not anarchists, they're libertarian marxists, hard to tell the difference though. I may be wrong

So Libertarian Marxists drink coffee, anarchist drink herbal tea nad Leninists drink vodka and liquid radiation, and thrive!

[StoneFrog]

Council Communists had parties KAPD and such, which participated in the 3rd international. But i think the roll of the party was more to publish propaganda, rather than to participate in parliamentary and institutional proceedings. As with CC the roll of the party is undefined, after the KAPD dissolved many thought best to not have one at all.

Do autonomists do the same with the use of parties?

[Sasha]

No, autonomists do anything but wait for the revolution. Core of their believes is that through revolutionary action in an pre-revolutionary time you can both influence/steer the current system (reformist) and built an revolutionary movement/spread revolutionary ideas

[ContrarianLemming]

No, autonomists do anything but wait for the revolution. Core of their believes is that through revolutionary action in an pre-revolutionary time you can both influence/steer the current system (reformist) and built an revolutionary movement/spread revolutionary ideas

they stole that from the anarcho syndicalists :p

[AK]

Council Communists had parties KAPD and such, which participated in the 3rd international. But i think the roll of the party was more to publish propaganda, rather than to participate in parliamentary and institutional proceedings. As with CC the roll of the party is undefined, after the KAPD dissolved many thought best to not have one at all.

Do autonomists do the same with the use of parties?
Council Communists are strictly opposed to parliamentary politics and institutional government.

As for the party issue, I believe the only role that the party should ever undertake is one of teaching; spreading class consciousness and exposing the lies that the Bourgeoisie have spoon-fed to the wokring class over the years.

[ContrarianLemming]

I fucking hate coffee.

Hey, your tendency says "council communism" but your avatar is mutualist?
And a party whose only job is propaganda and orginization is not really a party. If we use that council communist idea then anarchist orginizations are "parties".

[StoneFrog]

Council Communists are strictly opposed to parliamentary politics and institutional government.

As for the party issue, I believe the only role that the party should ever undertake is one of teaching; spreading class consciousness and exposing the lies that the Bourgeoisie have spoon-fed to the wokring class over the years.

Thats what i was trying to say.

[Sasha]

enough about coffe, tea, leninade and 40oz. take it to chitchat you...
thread splitted, offtopic stuff moved here: http://www.revleft.com/vb/sectarian-drink-discussion-t135505/index.html

[Ravachol]

No, autonomists do anything but wait for the revolution. Core of their believes is that through revolutionary action in an pre-revolutionary time you can both influence/steer the current system (reformist) and built an revolutionary movement/spread revolutionary ideas

I do have to say that there is a huge difference between the two currents known as 'Autonomist': the Dutch/German 'Autonomen' current and the Italian Autonomia one.

Their practice and theory vary quite a lot, especially considering the influence Insurrectionary thought seems to have within the Dutch/German current, something that is completely out of line with the mass-oriented line of Autonomia-inspired autonomism and it's workerist origins.

[bcbm]

especially considering the influence Insurrectionary thought seems to have within the Dutch/German current, something that is completely out of line with the mass-oriented line of Autonomia-inspired autonomism and it's workerist origins.

http://www.solechesorgi.com/old/Notiziar/2008/autonomi2.jpg

[Ravachol]

http://www.solechesorgi.com/old/Notiziar/2008/autonomi2.jpg

Hehe point taken, but I don't think street-fighting and confrontation with the police conflict with a mass-oriented approach to class struggle though and neither did Autonomia. Obviously there is a large difference between Insurrectionary currents which are generally rooted in 'anti-political' theory (as examplified by the Letters Journal (http://www.lettersjournal.org/), the Salon de Ver Luisant (http://salon.lettersjournal.org/) forum and Wolfi Landstreicher's writings) with origins in Stinerist thought as opposed to Autonomia's post-Operaist line (originating in Left-Leninist circles no less!) which wasn't anti-political in any aspect and whose main revolutionary work consisted of building up networks of material support and mutual aid through both self-reduction (eg. Rent Strikes, mass re-appropriation of public transport,etc) and factory-based struggle.

I don't think Insurrectionary/'Anti-Political' thought should be reduced to 'kids fucking shit up 'n trashing your windows yo!' either, although many adherents of the tendency seem to believe that is the case :rolleyes:

[bcbm]

you would classify letters and the salon as insurrectionary?

[Ravachol]

you would classify letters and the salon as insurrectionary?

Well I think their anti-political thought shows a lot of similarity with the insurrectionary logic that seeks to spread social war by presenting 'easily-copied' (in a material sense, not a hegemonic/psychological one) acts of confrontation with those mechanisms that constrict our everyday lives. Letters and the salon seem to reject organisation on the basis of it supposedly mimicing 'commercial logic' and having it's own self-reproduction as it's primary goal as opposed to confrontation with capital and authority. Both seem to advocate some sort of informally-bound insurrection that propagates through signs, very much akin to the old mantra of propaganda of the deed. I might be mistaken here but that is what I figured after reading a few pieces on Letters/the Salon.

[AK]

Hey, your tendency says "council communism" but your avatar is mutualist?
And a party whose only job is propaganda and orginization is not really a party. If we use that council communist idea then anarchist orginizations are "parties".
Ok then, fuck parties.
And in response to my avatar; I just chose the colours because they fitted the pretty looking orange and black scheme of my profile. But if people are gonna mix the colours up and say I'm a mutualist then I guess its time for some red.

[ContrarianLemming]

Ok then, fuck parties.
And in response to my avatar; I just chose the colours because they fitted the pretty looking orange and black scheme of my profile. But if people are gonna mix the colours up and say I'm a mutualist then I guess its time for some red.

makes sense.
I am only noticing now that mutualism seems to have it's own flag (orange) and saw a few people with it. Always be wary of the political symbolism in your avatar.
Anyhoo, I'm not sure who said it, but yes, the italian autonomists were more influenced by mass movement and syndicalism, although I had heard the german ones were more influenced by Marx (autonomists are libertarian marxists correct?), not insurrectionary anarchism.


enough about coffe, tea, leninade and 40oz. take it to chitchat you...
thread splitted, offtopic stuff moved here: http://www.revleft.com/vb/sectarian-drink-discussion-t135505/index.html (http://www.revleft.com/vb/../sectarian-drink-discussion-t135505/index.html)


You mods are no fun :(