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Psy
15th May 2010, 21:40
I notice one of the arguments supporters of free-market capitalist give is that private capitalist enterprises are free of the bureaucracy of governments.

I find this funny as I got laid-off (again) and ending up working for the equivalent of roadies for conventions and from what I seen bureaucracy is alive and well within private enterprises as they hold massive functions that take days to put together that only last a few hours and have to torn down quickly (usually with fatigued crews that only gotten a few hours of sleep the whole week) just so the bureaucrats in private enterprises can hold fancy self-congratulatory parties that costs far more money then they could ever have realistically saved in "efficiency" and the guests probably only attend due to etiquette and nothing important is ever conveyed at these functions.

Sperm-Doll Setsuna
15th May 2010, 22:57
Of course, private sector has massive bureaucracy.

Capitalist "efficiency" improvement via privatisation simply concerns with shifting the bureaucracy into a zone of shadows where it is not as visible as it was under public administration, and even less influence can be had. It's essentially an clean-up by hiding it under a rug and trying to forget about it.

Uppercut
17th May 2010, 00:17
In laissez-faire economics, employers would have to downsize wages as much as possible to stay in business. Libertarians always preach "freedom", but they fail to recognize the anti-working class nature of their ideology. The whole point of competition is to beat the competition, thus making the concept of "perfect competition" inconceivable, illogical, and outright impossible.
And lets not forget the fact that 19th century free-marketeering led to an economic downturn every 5-10 years. Capitalism cannot prosper without government regulation in order to provide maximum efficiency. Even then, the capitalist state is required to fund businesses in one way or another, which creates a scary relationship between government and corporations. But I'm sure you guys knew that already.

syndicat
17th May 2010, 00:21
You're right. Bureaucratic bloat is huge in the USA. 15.7 percent of the workforce are employed as supervisors. a lot of their role is cops to watch people and keep them working hard. corporations have huge bureaucracies. it's one of the major inefficiencies of capitalism.

AK
17th May 2010, 12:47
In laissez-faire economics, employers would have to downsize wages as much as possible to stay in business. Libertarians always preach "freedom", but they fail to recognize the anti-working class nature of their ideology. The whole point of competition is to beat the competition, thus making the concept of "perfect competition" inconceivable, illogical, and outright impossible.
The main flaw with the ancap perception of freedom is that it focuses only on an end to state oppression.

Yet, they also fail to realise that the new hierarchial institutions that the new system would create would essentially be a state again - further infringing on freedom.

What I don't get about ancaps is how they try to sell their shit to the working class. The working class tends to assosciate capitalism with freedom and democracy yet anarcho-capitalism would destroy even the current masquerade of democracy that modern capitalism so proudly supports.

Anarcho-capitalism threatens to destroy the last shreds of democracy and freedom, whilst claiming it will make us freer. How the fuck does this work? What kind of nutjob supports this shit?

AK
17th May 2010, 12:52
You're right. Bureaucratic bloat is huge in the USA. 15.7 percent of the workforce are employed as supervisors. a lot of their role is cops to watch people and keep them working hard. corporations have huge bureaucracies. it's one of the major inefficiencies of capitalism.
Do such figures not also threaten to weaken our movement? All these working class men and women employed as supervisors? Anti-working class and permanently siding with the Bourgeoisie as a sort of thanks for being one of the few who managed to take a mere single step on the elusive corporate ladder?