Log in

View Full Version : Lucaks thinks science can give our lives meaning



A.R.Amistad
14th May 2010, 22:43
It is truly sad to see a truly good thinker treat science in a non-scientific way. This is from Lukacs thoroughly flawed argument against existentialism. How can science give people's life meaning? Thats not even the declared method of science, and most scientists worth there salt would deny it (and correctly so). So, why is Lukacs treating science like a religion?

It would be an error to assume that such an abstract narrowing of reality, such an idealist distortion of the problem of reality, by intelligent and experienced men is intentional deceit. On the contrary, those inner experiences which constitute the attitude revealed in the intuition of the Wesensschau, and its content, are as sincere and spontaneous as possible. But that does not make them objectively correct. Indeed this spontaneity, by betraying its immediate uncritical attitude toward the basic phenomenon, creates the false consciousness: fetishism. Fetishism signifies, in brief, that the relations among human beings which function by means of objects are reflected in human consciousness immediately as things, because of the structure of capitalist economy. They become objects or things, fetishes in which men crystallize their social relationships, as savages do their relationships to nature; and for savages the laws of natural relations are just as impenetrable as the laws of the capitalist system of economy are to the men of the world of today. Like savages, modern men pray to the fetishes they themselves have made, bow down to them, and sacrifice to them (e.g., the fetish of money). Human relations, as Marx says, acquire a spectral objectivity. The social existence of man becomes a riddle in his immediate experience, even though objectively he is a social being first and foremost, despite all immediate appearances to the contrary.
It is not our aim nor our task to treat of the problem of fetish making: to do so would require a systematic development of the whole structure of capitalist society and the forms of false consciousness arising out of it. I shall merely point out the most important questions which have had decisive influence on the development of existentialism.
The first is lifes losing its meaning. Man loses the center, weight, and connectedness of his own life, a fact life itself compels him to realize. The phenomenon has been known for a long time. Ibsen, in Peer Gynt, puts it into a striking little scene. The aging Peer Gynt is peeling off the layers of an onion, and playfully compares the single layers with the periods of his life, hoping at the end to come to the core of the onion and the core of his own personality. But layer follows layer, period after period of life; and no core is found.
Everyone whom this experience has touched faces the question: How can my life become meaningful? The man who lives in the fetish-making world does not see that every life is rich, full, and meaningful to the extent that it is consciously linked in human relations with other lives. The isolated egoistic man who lives only for himself lives in an impoverished world. His experiences approach threateningly close to the unessential and begin to merge into nothingness the more exclusively they are his alone, and turned solely inward.
The man of the fetishized world, who can cure his disgust with the world only in intoxication, seeks, like the morphine addict, to find a way out by heightening the intensity of the intoxicant rather than by a way of life that has no need of intoxication. He is not aware that the loss of communal life, the degradation and dehumanization of collective work as a result of capitalist division of labor, and the severance of human relations from social activity have stupefied him. He does not see this, and goes further and further along the fatal path, which tends to become a subjective need. For in capitalist society public life, work, and the system of human relations are under the spell of fetish making, reification and dehumanization. Only revolt against the actual foundations, as we can see in many authors of the time, leads to a clearer appreciation of these foundations, and thence to a new social perspective. Escape into inwardness is a tragic-comical blind alley.
As long as the pillars of capitalist society seemed unshakable, say up to the first world war, the so-called avant-garde danced with the fetishes of their inner life. Some writers, it is true, saw the approach of the inevitable catastrophe (Ibsen, Tolstoy, Thomas Mann, etc.). The gaudy carnival, often with a ghastly tone from tragic incidental music, went on uninterrupted. The philosophy of Simmel and Bergson and much of the literature of the time show exactly where things were heading.
Many a good writer and keen thinker saw through the intoxication of carnival to the fact that the fetishized ego had lost its essence. But they went no further than to sketch tragic or tragi-comic perspectives behind the garish whirl. The fetishized bases of life seemed so beyond question that they escaped study, let alone criticism. If there were doubts, they were like the doubt of the Hindu who questioned the accepted doctrine that the world rests on a huge elephant; he asked modestly on what the elephant rested; and when told it rested on a huge tortoise, he went his way contented. Mind was so formed by fetish thinking that when the first world war and the subsequent series of crises called the very possibility of human existence into question, giving a new tinge to every idea, and when the carnival of isolated individualism gave way to its Ash Wednesday, there was still virtually no change in the way that philosophical questions were asked.
Yet the aim and direction of the quest for essence did change. The existentialism of Heidegger and Jaspers is proof. The experience which underlies this philosophy is easily stated: man stands face to face with nothingness or nonbeing. The fundamental relation of man to the world is the situation of vis--vis de rien. There is nothing particularly original in this. Ever since Poe, perhaps the first to describe the situation and the corresponding attitude, modern literature has dwelt upon the tragic fate which drives a man to the edge of the abyss. As examples we may mention the situation of Raskolnikov after the murder, and the road to suicide of Svidrigailov or Stavrogin. What is involved here? A characteristic tragic form of development, arising out of present-day life. A great writer weaves these tragic destinies, which are as vivid and positive as were the tragedies of Oedipus and Hamlet in their day.
The originality of Heidegger is that he takes just such situations as typical and makes them his starting point. With the help of the complicated method of phenomenology, he lodges the entire problem in the fetishized structure of the bourgeois mind, in the dreary hopeless nihilism and pessimism of the intellectuals of the interval between the two world wars. The first fetish is the concept of nothingness. In Heidegger as in Sartre, this is the central problem of reality, of ontology. In Heidegger nothingness is an ontological datum on a level with existence; in Sartre it is only one factor in existence, which nevertheless enters into all the manifestations of being.
A very specialized philosophical dissertation would be required to show the chains of thought, sometimes quite false, sometimes obviously sophistical, by which Sartre seeks to justify his theory of negative judgment. It is true that, for every No which expresses a particular judgment, there is a positively existing situation. But it is only idolizing of subjective attitudes that gives nothingness the semblance of reality. When I inquire, for instance, what the laws of the solar system are, I have not posited any negative being, such as Sartre envisages. The meaning of my question is simply that I lack knowledge. The answer may be put in either positive or negative form, but the same positive reality is indicated in either case. Only sophistry could infer the existence of nonbeing. The nothingness which fascinates recent philosophers is a myth of declining capitalist society. While previously it was individuals (though socially typical ones) like Stavrogin and Svidrigailov that had to face nothingness, today it is a whole system that has reached this chimerical outlook. For Heidegger and Sartre life itself is the state of being cast into nothingness.
Existentialism consistently proclaims that nothing can be known by man. It does not challenge science in general; it does not raise skeptical objections to its practical or technical uses. It merely denies that there is a science which has the right to say anything about the one essential question: the relation of the individual to life. This is the alleged superiority of existentialism to the old philosophy. Existential philosophy, Jaspers says, would be lost immediately if it started believing again that it knew what man is. This radical ignorance on principle, which is stressed by Heidegger and Sartre, is one of the main reasons for the overwhelming influence of existentialism. Men who have no prospects themselves find consolation in the doctrine that life in general has no prospects to offer.
Here existentialism flows into the modern current of irrationalism. The phenomenological and ontological method seems, it is true, to stand in bold contrast to the ordinary irrationalist tendencies. Are not the former rigorously scientific, and was not Husserl a supporter of the most fanatical of logicians, Bolzano and Brentano? But even a superficial study of the method at once discloses its links with the masters of irrationalism, Dilthey and Bergson. And when Heidegger renewed Kierkegaards efforts, the tie became even closer.
This connection is more than an accidental convergence of two methods. The more phenomenology is transformed into the method of existentialism, the more the underlying irrationality of the individual and of being becomes the central object, and the closer becomes its affinity to irrational currents of the time. Being is meaningless, uncaused, unnecessary. Being is by definition the originally fortuitous, says Sartre. If nothingness comes to exist by the magic of existentialism, existence is made negative. Existence is what man lacks. The human being, says Heidegger, knows what he is only from existence, i.e., from his own potentialities, whether he becomes the one he is, or not. Is mans becoming authentic or not? We have seen that in the leading trends of modern philosophy this question has an antisocial character. Using the familiar method, Heidegger subjects mans everyday life to phenomenological analysis. The life of man is a co-existence and at the same time a being-in-the-world. This being also has its fetish; namely, one. In German, subjectless sentences begin with man (one): One writes, One does. Heidegger, making myths, erects this word into an ontological existent in order to express philosophically what seems to him to be the function of society and social life; viz., to turn man away from himself, to make him unauthentic, to prevent him from being himself. The manifestation of one in daily life is chatter, curiosity, ambiguity, falling. To follow the path of ones own existence, according to Heidegger, one must take the road to death, his own death; one must live in such a way that his death does not come upon him as a brute fact breaking in on him from without, but as his own. Actual existence can find its crowning achievement only in such a personal demise. The complete capriciousness and subjectivism of the ontology, concealed behind a show of objectivity, come to light once more. As a confession of a citizen of the 1920s, Heideggers way of thinking is not without interest. Sein und Zeit is at least as absorbing reading as Clines novel, Journey to the End of the Night. But the former, like the latter, is merely a document of the day showing how a class felt and thought, and not an ontological disclosure of ultimate truth. It is only because this book is so well suited to the emotional world of todays intellectuals that the arbitrariness of its pseudoargumentation is not exposed. The contrast of abstract death to meaningless life is for many men today an implicit axiom. But it suffices to glance at the mode of thought of older times, before collapse started, to realize that this attitude toward death is not the ontological character of being but a transitory phenomenon. Spinoza said: The free man thinks of anything but his death; his wisdom is not death but pondering on life.
Jaspers and Sartre are less radical than Heidegger in this respect, although their thought is not the less conditioned by time and class. Sartre flatly rejects the concept of specific or personal death as a category of existentialism. In Jaspers, the phantom of one does not appear formally in such a radically mystifying form, but only as the totality of the nameless powers ruling life (that is, essentially, social life once more objectivized in a fetish). He contents himself with assigning man, once he has acquired his essence and begun to live his own private existence, strictly to the paths of private life. In Geneva recently Jaspers developed the thesis that nothing good or essential can come of political or social activity: the salvation of man is possible only when every one passionately concerns himself exclusively with his own existence and in relations with other individuals of like persuasion.
Here the labors of the philosophical mountain have only produced a dreary Philistine mouse. Ernst Bloch, the well known German anti-fascist writer (whose book appeared in 1935), said of Heideggers death theory (from which Jaspers personal morality is obtained simply by the addition of water): Taking eternal death as goal makes mans existing social situation a matter of such indifference that it might as well remain capitalistic. The assertion of death as absolute fate and sole destination has the same significance for todays counterrevolution as formerly the consolation of the hereafter had. This keen observation casts light too on the reason why the popularity of existentialism is growing not only among snobs but also among reactionary writers.


And furthermore he obviously doesn't get existentialism. Maybe this was Sartre's fault for being an idealist, but Lukacs seems to claim that we deny reality. This is not so. Existentialists just recognize that relying on the objective universe to define your life is futile. Not recognizing reality is inauthentic. If one were to say "my essence is a bird" and they were clearly human, not only is this objectively wrong, it is an inauthentic mode of despair for the individual to live as the other, to be the in-itself, to objectify themselves. And his claims about the "fetishizing of freedom." Well, what about the fetishizing of determinsm? I still consider myself a Lukacs fan, but it is this attitude that is all to prevelant among Marxists that the "individual" is a bad thing. This is not a genuine Marxist approach to the individual.

Also, "Man is first and foremost a social being." I take some debate with this statement. How is this so? OK, we depend on our parents to raise us, but we could always choose to live on our own. Ever heard of Chris McCandless? We are beyond bare necessity.

Here is the text. I'd like to discuss some critical comments about this work, which I find to be a very poor argument about something Lucaks seems to understand very little about, just like his critique of Nietzche.

http://www.marxists.org/archive/lukacs/works/1949/existentialism.htm

Hit The North
15th May 2010, 08:04
Originally posted by A.R.Amistad
Also, "Man is first and foremost a social being." I take some debate with this statement. How is this so? OK, we depend on our parents to raise us, but we could always choose to live on our own. Ever heard of Chris McCandless? We are beyond bare necessity. Chris McCandless would appear to be a good test case for asserting the truth that humans are foremost social beings. From Wikipedia:

Christopher Johnson McCandless (February 12, 1968 – mid-August, 1992) was an American itinerant (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Itinerant) who adopted the name Alexander Supertramp and hiked into the Alaskan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alaska) wilderness with little food and equipment, hoping to live a period of solitude. Almost four months later, weighing only 67 pounds (30 kg), he died of starvation near Denali National Park and Preserve (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denali_National_Park_and_Preserve). (emphasis added)

Moreover it is not only our parents we depend upon but the whole of the society which furnishes us with language, culture and the material means of subsistence. Sure, I could, in adulthood, choose to live a self-sufficient life of hermitage away from society, but this will only prove to be an exception which proves the rule. Meanwhile, with the advance of civilization, the increase in the division of labour and the extension of social property relations to hitherto inaccessible regions of nature, hermitage becomes increasingly untenable, and so the notion that "Man is first and foremost a social being" becomes increasingly unavoidable.

A.R.Amistad
15th May 2010, 12:55
Chris McCandless would appear to be a good test case for asserting the truth that humans are foremost social beings. From Wikipedia:
(emphasis added)

Moreover it is not only our parents we depend upon but the whole of the society which furnishes us with language, culture and the material means of subsistence. Sure, I could, in adulthood, choose to live a self-sufficient life of hermitage away from society, but this will only prove to be an exception which proves the rule. Meanwhile, with the advance of civilization, the increase in the division of labour and the extension of social property relations to hitherto inaccessible regions of nature, hermitage becomes increasingly untenable, and so the notion that "Man is first and foremost a social being" becomes increasingly unavoidable.

But to use this argument would mean that you would have to assert that the "meaning" of life is to live. Again, refer to my "gangrene story" for proof tht people can choose to reject their lives for another meaning.

Hit The North
15th May 2010, 13:59
Where do I say anything about 'meaning'?

A.R.Amistad
15th May 2010, 14:32
Well, I dont want to detract from the subject of the thread. Does anyone else agree that Lukacs is misusing science and the Marxist method in this piece?

Hit The North
15th May 2010, 21:33
Well, I dont want to detract from the subject of the thread.

Ok, but I don't see where Lukacs is claiming that science provides us with metaphysical meaning in the way that religion does. It seems to me that the essence of his critique is the individualism of existential thought and its tendency to resolve itself in egoism, as a particular form of fetishism.

I'd further argue that by asserting that meaning for human beings can only be derived from their association as social beings, Lukacs is putting forward an assertion which is in accordance with Marxism:


Originally posted by Lukacs
The man who lives in the fetish-making world does not see that every life is rich, full, and meaningful to the extent that it is consciously linked in human relations with other lives.

which doctor
15th May 2010, 22:22
I don't see where Lukacs is arguing that science gives are lives meaning. In fact, he only mentions the word 'science' twice, and he doesn't really touch much on it, so I don't know where you're coming from with that.

For Lukacs, its not that existentialists necessarily deny reality, but that we live in a world that is totally reified, therefore if you go searching for authenticity, you'll find its turtles all the way down, so to speak. In other words, there is no good, or right, life to be lived in capitalism. To find meaning in the subjective world is just as much of a lost project as finding meaning in the objective world is. Thus, the question of what is the meaning to life is a moot one.

What someone like Lukacs might find liberatating on the individual level, is the recognition that we live in a world that is totally reifed, one where there is no longer an 'authentic,' so we can finally give up on looking for it. Thus, are lives have 'meaning,' so to speak, insofar as we all products of, and inhabit, a world of commodities, which is the result of our collective, socialized, and objectified labor.

Even someone like Christopher McCandless couldn't escape the world of social, objectified labor. For instance, he lived in a scrapped school bus, read books, brought knowledge with him, etc. None of these items were just things-in-themselves, but the were socialized human labor, objectified. None of these individual items belong anymore to the individual than they do to the social.

A.R.Amistad
16th May 2010, 02:28
I still don't understand the fear of the individual that is so prevalent here. Existential views on the individual are not like the views perpetuated by the Objectivists. In fact, the type of individuality that is harmful to the proletarian movement, and to society in general, is generally seen as a product of despair where the individual focuses only on their necessity, their being in-itself and refuse to go beyond that. The authentic existential individual is a laboring individual because they are laboring to give meaning to their lives. That must require some level of interaction with society.

Look, whether or not Marxism is a "philosophy" is up for debate, but its not about the individual, so a Marxist shouldn't feel threatened by an individual, or even a philosophy that is concerned with the individual (especially Existentialism, which compliments Marxism far more than it contradicts it.) Marx eve said once "Capitalism is a social, not an individual force."

So lets go back to that quote. "Capitalism is a social, not an individual force." I agree with Lukacs idea of reification, and I said before I'd even call myself a Lukacs fan, but I can't just sit around and let capitalism define who I am. I'm a proletarian and I sell my labor. What has this to do with my essence? The individuals who are proletarians are so variegated that any level of reification can't define their essence. So, really this is just as absurd. How can I rely on an outside social force to give meaning to my individual life without me acting on it? The values I will attach to my social situation are my own, otherwise the struggle for socialism would be a hell of a lot easier.

gilhyle
16th May 2010, 22:45
Lukacs' works give the lie to those of Bloch - his works are vitiated by a pathetic sense of hope which distorts his views on everything he examines.

black magick hustla
17th May 2010, 22:16
Lukacs marxification of german idealism is not useful at all.

Rosa Lichtenstein
18th May 2010, 04:28
Well, I waded through the quoted passage, and it seemed to me little more than aimless, meandering, name-dropping prose, hardly worth discussing, like much else that Lukacs, Sartre and Heidegger inflicted on humanity.

The only question is: why on earth does anyone think this worth discussing?

A.R.Amistad
18th May 2010, 16:15
Well, I waded through the quoted passage, and it seemed to me little more than aimless, meandering, name-dropping prose, hardly worth discussing, like much else that Lukacs, Sartre and Heidegger inflicted on humanity.

The only question is: why on earth does anyone think this worth discussing?

Because some of us are interested in studying philosophy, whether nit is a "distortion of language" or not.

Rosa Lichtenstein
18th May 2010, 21:33
A R Amistad:


Because some of us are interested in studying philosophy, whether it is a "distortion of language" or not.

And you are welcome to this two thousand five hundred year long waste of effort, which has not one success to its name.

A.R.Amistad
19th May 2010, 00:02
A R Amistad:



And you are welcome to this two thousand five hundred year long waste of effort, which has not one success to its name.

according to how you define it

Rosa Lichtenstein
19th May 2010, 12:17
A R Amistad:


according to how you define it

1 ) I didn't actually define it.

2) You can define it anyway you like -- it will still represent 2500 years of wasted effort. We are no nearer solving a single philosophical 'problem' than Plato was -- and arguably we are much further way, since these pseudo-problems have multiplied considerably in the intervening years, and have become far more intractable to boot.

A.R.Amistad
19th May 2010, 18:55
A R Amistad:



1 ) I didn't actually define it.

2) You can define it anyway you like -- it will still represent 2500 years of wasted effort. We are no nearer solving a single philosophical 'problem' than Plato was -- and arguably we are much further way, since these pseudo-problems have multiplied considerably in the intervening years, and have become far more intractable to boot.
So, philosophical questions should not even be pondered or considered at all because its all just language and screw human emotions and individual situations. Am I catching your drift?

Rosa Lichtenstein
19th May 2010, 19:40
A R Amistad:


So, philosophical questions should not even be pondered or considered at all because its all just language and screw human emotions and individual situations. Am I catching your drift?

Well, it's not up to me if certain individuals want to waste their time on such pseudo-problems, but I'll certainly remind them that a far better use of their time would be to watch their toe-nails grow.


because its all just language and screw human emotions and individual situations.

Where did I say this, or even imply it?

A.R.Amistad
19th May 2010, 22:24
A R Amistad:



Well, it's not up to me if certain individuals want to waste their time on such pseudo-problems, but I'll certainly remind them that a far better use of their time would be to watch their toe-nails grow.



Where did I say this, or even imply it?

Then what is your response to human emotions and the human condition?

Rosa Lichtenstein
20th May 2010, 08:00
A R Amistad:


Then what is your response to human emotions and the human condition?

Whatever it is, it gains nothing from that bogus discipline called 'philosophy'. I have learnt more from good novels.

A.R.Amistad
21st May 2010, 02:03
A R Amistad:



Whatever it is, it gains nothing from that bogus discipline called 'philosophy'. I have learnt more from good novels.

If you like good novels, why discount philosophy? I basically see it as on the same "playing field" so to speak. seeing as it really deals with more subjective ideas than objective ones. Are you possibly treating philosophy too much as a science?

Meridian
21st May 2010, 03:29
If you like good novels, why discount philosophy? I basically see it as on the same "playing field" so to speak. seeing as it really deals with more subjective ideas than objective ones. Are you possibly treating philosophy too much as a science?
If it were truly so, philosophy would simply be a more boring version of novels, offering little motivation to even read through it.

However, philosophy is completely different from novels because philosophers make claims to truth. Belief in this, after all, is why anyone bothers with philosophy (of course, besides the crazy income you get as a 'philosopher' ;)). Where good novels, or other forms of artistic work, can be, for example, illustrative, works of philosophy qua philosophy fails because philosophers set out to find 'answers' based on language applied incorrectly. Exactly what they wish to find the answers to, so called philosophical problems, are simply instances of the same misuse of language, often creating contradictions of some form causing all the confusion. So we can extract nothing beneficial from philosophy.

Rosa Lichtenstein
21st May 2010, 10:56
A R Amistad:


If you like good novels, why discount philosophy?

1) Becasue philosophy is based on the systematic misuse of language.

2) This is not so with good novels.

3) With such novels we know we are dealing with fiction.


I basically see it as on the same "playing field" so to speak. seeing as it really deals with more subjective ideas than objective ones. Are you possibly treating philosophy too much as a science?

Not at all; it is far too confused to be regarded as a science.

Tribune
21st May 2010, 13:00
If you like good novels, why discount philosophy? I basically see it as on the same "playing field" so to speak. seeing as it really deals with more subjective ideas than objective ones. Are you possibly treating philosophy too much as a science?

Kindly, what is a "subjective idea" and how does it compare and contrast with an "objective" one?

which doctor
21st May 2010, 16:37
And you are welcome to this two thousand five hundred year long waste of effort, which has not one success to its name.
What would a 'success' for philosophy actually look like?

Rosa Lichtenstein
21st May 2010, 17:06
Which Doctor:


What would a 'success' for philosophy actually look like?

Good question, and one you should be asking those who think philosophy is a legitimate intellectual discipline.

black magick hustla
21st May 2010, 18:30
What would a 'success' for philosophy actually look like?

I think success is simply clarification. philosophy cannot discover facts by the sheer power of words.

Rosa Lichtenstein
21st May 2010, 19:20
^^^That is part of the radically new meaning of "philosophy" Wittgenstein proposed.

According to his method, success will be achieved when we stop asking metaphysical questions, since clarification will show us that such questions are either (a) pseudo-problems, or (b) are based on a misuse of language, or (c) result from the miscontrual of linguistic rules as if they were substantive truths about reality.

A.R.Amistad
21st May 2010, 20:42
^^^That is part of the radically new meaning of "philosophy" Wittgenstein proposed.

According to his method, success will be achieved when we stop asking metaphysical questions, since clarification will show us that such questions are either (a) pseudo-problems, or (b) are based on a misuse of language, or (c) result from the miscontrual of linguistic rules as if they were substantive truths about reality.

What's the difference between this and post-modernism?

Rosa Lichtenstein
21st May 2010, 21:40
A R Amistad:


What's the difference between this and post-modernism?

1) PM is a philosophical theory (and thus non-sensical); Wittgenstein's method isn't.

2) Since the word 'truth' has a legitimate use in ordinary language, Wittgenstein's method doesn't deny we can attain countless truths about ourselves and nature (how could it?). This is not so with PM.

3) Wittgenstein's method does not restrict itself to 'the text', something that is characteristic of PM.

There are many other differences, but these will do.

gilhyle
22nd May 2010, 08:27
What would a 'success' for philosophy actually look like?

Great question !

Success in philosophy, I suggest, might be seen to consist entirely in relativist achievements: to be a matter of making onceself the focus of attention of other philosphers.

However, philosophy has a history and more to the point, its history is part of social and cultural history. Thus Kant had huge success in the history of philosophy and has proven over time to have achieved that by articulating key pillars of certain ideas (ideas I consider false) which have persistently re-occured/reemerged in capitalist society.

If one thinks that the only success in thinking is to articulate truth then one cannot ascribe any success to any philosopher on any significant scale (with the exception of Aristotle but only because he happened to be an amazing scientist as well). If one accepts a broader definition of success - in terms of contributing to human progress - then there are some philosophers who have had success, although at the price of articulating things which are actually untrue (and of making arguments which are false). But that is true of many scientists as well.

Rosa Lichtenstein
22nd May 2010, 17:46
Gil:


Success in philosophy, I suggest, might be seen to consist entirely in relativist achievements: to be a matter of making onceself the focus of attention of other philosphers.

However, philosophy has a history and more to the point, its history is part of social and cultural history. Thus Kant had huge success in the history of philosophy and has proven over time to have achieved that by articulating key pillars of certain ideas (ideas I consider false) which have persistently re-occured/reemerged in capitalist society.

If one thinks that the only success in thinking is to articulate truth then one cannot ascribe any success to any philosopher on any significant scale (with the exception of Aristotle but only because he happened to be an amazing scientist as well). If one accepts a broader definition of success - in terms of contributing to human progress - then there are some philosophers who have had success, although at the price of articulating things which are actually untrue (and of making arguments which are false). But that is true of many scientists as well.

Summary of the above: philosophy has enjoyed no success at all...:(

No surprise there then, since, as Marx noted, it's based on a distortion of language.

Buffalo Souljah
24th May 2010, 06:44
Great find, BTW! I'd never read this piece. Thanks for digging it out for us, amigo!

I didn't read all of the selection of Lukacs--he's usually someone I can only read in spurts (Actually, this is not true: I read through History and Class Consciousness in a breeze, and though I didn't enjoy every minute of the experience, I don't think this was his intention in writing the book). Nonetheless, I will say to the credit of the article that (and I am admittedly Lukacs-phone) he makes some very sound structural analysis of the prevailing "situation" in modern capitalistic, late-capitalistic society, AND makes note of the fact that (and this is not often enough said) most existential philosophers (and he is generalizing here) tend to "work with" what they're given ad hoc and forego stipulating any overarching or "larger" truths or "realities" that may be "out there", choosing instead "[w]ith the help of the complicated method of phenomenology, [to lodge] the entire problem in the fetishized structure of the bourgeois mind, in the dreary hopeless nihilism and pessimism of the intellectuals of the interval between the two world wars." That having been said, I will say to existentialism's credit that it merely represented the mental production of one [articular stage of historical development, albeit, arguably a "transitional" stage--between colonial and global, late/post-industrial capitalism, so it appears historically anachronistic, apropos its amalgamation of classical, romantic and idealistic philosophical tendencies and its simultaneous rejection of the majority of the history of philosophy.

I think the essay raises some good points, and you can see the same sort of "superstructural" analysis more fully developed in the Frankfurt School.

As to your conflicts with its content: I do not think Lukacs is trying to reify science by placing it on a pedastal above and "outside of" culture or the individual. I think he is merely reiterating a larger theme of his which is antagonistic towards tendencies inherent in capitalism (and any other presently extant system of production) to "rationalize the irrational" and thereby perpetuate itself. Instead of towing this line, Lukacs believes that ultimate liberation (of man, of the proletariat, etc.) will come about only through redoubled efforts to raise awareness and "stomp out" capitalism's (or any other system's) inherently illegitimate claim to predominance in the current sphere of things. I think anything else is just you reading into his rather baroque writing style (in addition to the filtration of translation from the German) which I can't say anything else about except you "have to get used to".

Buffalo Souljah
24th May 2010, 09:42
The isolated egoistic man who lives only for himself lives in an impoverished world. His experiences approach threateningly close to the unessential and begin to merge into nothingness the more exclusively they are his alone, and turned solely inward.
The man of the fetishized world, who can cure his disgust with the world only in intoxication, seeks, like the morphine addict, to find a way out by heightening the intensity of the intoxicant rather than by a way of life that has no need of intoxication. He is not aware that the loss of communal life, the degradation and dehumanization of collective work as a result of capitalist division of labor, and the severance of human relations from social activity have stupefied him.

This might be off topic, but: though I think this interpretation is in many regards true and correct, I strongly oppose the later argument that introversion is a negative result of the capitalist system of production, or is even a symptom of modernity. This is, I think, an idealistic return on Lukacs' part to the earlier dichotomy (featured primarily in Theory of the Novel) between the old world "objective" mentality (e.g., the cyclic models of the Homeric epics) and the contemporary "creation" of the ego (and particularly the novel form). I think, regardless of their appearance in the literary features of the times, subjectivity and creative reflection have been with us as long as we've had language. What would someone in the future think of us moderns if all they had to go on were whatever hogwash was spewed out of Hollywood? Would they, too, assume we had no creative insight or candid, "personal" communication? It's always a possibility, but we know that wouldn't be true.