Teenagers , useful for struggle or not?

[Taikand]

My main reason of asking this question is because I'm a "teen" myself.
Basically I want to know some opinions.
Teenagers are a very easily manipulated segment of population, at least from what I've seen. I find others at my age to be very easily easily influenced even by mild amounts of propaganda, like in the form of ads.

I've also observed a very distinct "herd behavior". While "values" like nationhood, or race supremacy are not so popular, at least not in this part of Eastern Europe many seem indoctrinated enough to fight to the death for organizations like soccer teams, gangs, or even corporations.

Most teenagers are very antipathetic towards politics and economy and really seem to enjoy their life in their "shiny bubble" ignorant of anything besides their very narrow view of the world.

Basically, my question is : With enough education , can this age category reach a higher class-awareness?

[The Idler]

Teenagers are very pliable and don't have the same fully-formed opinions or level of experience of adults. Inviting them to meetings and rallies is probably fine, but it might be a little unscrupulous to ask under 18s to leaflet or go on extremely political demonstrations.

[Devrim]

Everyone was a teenager once. I was involved in strikes at my work and was a member of a political organisation when I was a teenager. 'Leo' who posts on here joined our organisation when he was 16. Now he edits our paper in Turkey.

Devrim

[Taikand]

... was a member of a political organisation when I was a teenager.
Devrim
At least you were lucky enough to have a real political organisation near you.
I don't think I can find a handful of leftists in my entire country.

[RED DAVE]

It all depends on the general level of consciousness. In the US and Western Europe in the 50s and 60s, teenagers (I was one of them) played a big role because there were established left-wing organizations that nurtured us, taught us and watched out for our stupid asses.

Left to their own devices, teenagers will fuck it up in a minute.

This said, experience is the best teacher, and the best left-wing groups pretty much let their youth sections have their head, make their mistakes and grow.

RED DAVE

[Devrim]

At least you were lucky enough to have a real political organisation near you.

Yes, I lived in London at the time. My mother used to say that however crazy your political ideas were uou could find people to agree with you in London.


I don't think I can find a handful of leftists in my entire country.

Where do you live?

Devrim

[bailey_187]

I'm a teenager. We are useful to an extent, but i think we should stick to work among other teenagers for the most part. Like a 30/40 year old person aint going to listen to what some 17 year old has to say usually.

[Devrim]

Like a 30/40 year old person aint going to listen to what some 17 year old has to say usually.

I do, and I am a little older.

Devrim

[Lenina Rosenweg]

My understanding is that the average age of the Bolshevik Party during the October Revolution was 16-17. Nikolai Bukharin was 15 when he joined the Party. People of all ages make contributions of course but much of the energy in revolutionary movements come from people who are young, sometimes very young.

The teenage years are when people traditionally figure out who they are and what their relationship to the society around them should be. It varies but people from the ages of roughly 16-17 often go though what psychologists like Erik Erikson and Jean Piaget call the "idealist stage". People this age have learned the difference between good and bad and have developed personal codes of morality and ethics. At about this age one then realizes that society doesn't operate like this. We live in a world based on oppression and exploitation.This is the age when many people are fired with a drive to fight oppression, to make a difference. This is the traditional "coming of age" when one makes a commitment, if only on an subconscious level.

Unfortunately this desire or drive often doesn't last long. There are enormous pressures and inducements to accommodate to the system. Capitalist society seduces people into thinking in terms of personal power and influence instead of collective action and community. This means conformity. Get that MBA degree, get a high paying job, be real,socialism is a noble dream but has never worked..

A few people resist this. They are the ones, I feel, who will soon change the world.

We live in a global consumer society.There's an enormous amount of increasingly sophisticated propaganda to consume. This has little to do with human needs but rather the needs of capitalists to complete the circuit of capital accumulation. Consumption, much of it massively wasteful and destructive, is essential to the system.

Young people, in addition to having a propensity for idealism, as part of their coming of age process, tend to bond in subcultures. This seems to be a universal human trait. Tribal cultures have "lodges", "societies", etc. for boys and girls. If a society doesn't have a tradition like this, young people create their own. In western cultures these subcultures are usually based around music. Sometimes this can be the beginning of a live long commitment, other times its an identity kids try on for a while. Either way, its part of basic human need.

Anyway, capitalists know this and pump an enormous amount of money into creating illusions of community, of belonging. There are ways of resisting this but its not often easy. We have to create our own communities and cultures.

Capitalism is becoming increasingly unstable. They'll be a growing need for cultures of resistance and that's why a kid who works against the system will be very important.

[The Vegan Marxist]

I'm 19, so I'm a little past the "rebellious" individualist teenager phase, but as one, I still have friends back in my former high school where there are people willing to protest what they believe in, & there's a somewhat political conscious within it. Back when I went to school there, we had these debates in our history classes, & they had the liberal side & the conservative side. Me & a band of friends tried forming up a socialist party to get into the debates as well, but were denied. We even protested it somewhat by posting posters on the walls around the school for people to join the socialist party & to demand a voice in the debates. We gained a few people from it actually. So I'd have to agree that it depends on what the environmental conscious is within your area. Teenagers are very useful & shouldn't be ignored solely because of their ages.

[Demogorgon]

Teenagers grow up and all adults were teenagers once. It isn't as if teenagers are some species apart whose views are of less importance than anyone else's. Now obviously teenagers do go through a rebellious phase as part of growing up and finding their own place in the world and for some that means leaping from political ideology to ideology with little rhyme or reason (check OI if you don't believe me), so it stands to reason that some teenagers saying they are communists or anarchists are simply out to shock their parents or otherwise "stick it to the system" or whatever.

However for every teenager doing that, there are those who hold their views very genuinely. Naturally, they may not have all the details worked out, but they are genuine leftists and should be respected as such.

[Stand Your Ground]

My main reason of asking this question is because I'm a "teen" myself.
Basically I want to know some opinions.
Teenagers are a very easily manipulated segment of population, at least from what I've seen. I find others at my age to be very easily easily influenced even by mild amounts of propaganda, like in the form of ads.

I've also observed a very distinct "herd behavior". While "values" like nationhood, or race supremacy are not so popular, at least not in this part of Eastern Europe many seem indoctrinated enough to fight to the death for organizations like soccer teams, gangs, or even corporations.

Most teenagers are very antipathetic towards politics and economy and really seem to enjoy their life in their "shiny bubble" ignorant of anything besides their very narrow view of the world.

Basically, my question is : With enough education , can this age category reach a higher class-awareness?
Sure they can, anyone can. They just need to be exposed to the right things. I was apolitical just 4 months ago. Now I'm a full blown commie and only 20 lol.

[The Red Next Door]

Of course, movements need young people like us, my comrade and i are teens(i am going be 20 in September), we are very useful to movements because him and i get shit done.

[Qayin]

Teenagers are very pliable and don't have the same fully-formed opinions or level of experience of adults. Inviting them to meetings and rallies is probably fine, but it might be a little unscrupulous to ask under 18s to leaflet or go on extremely political demonstrations.


I've been active sense my Freshmen year at High School.
Some of us actually give two shits about our cold world.

[allenwrench]

Hard to find kids in high school or on college campuses that give two shits about anything socially relevant, but we are out there. :thumbup1:

[Tablo]

I'm turning 19 in about a week. I feel teens can contribute, but it really varies from person to person. I think people should try not to be ageist about the whole situation. Yes, some teens have less experience in the world of labor, but that isn't enough to completely discredit our views. We have and always will play a major part in my opinion. The teens of the third world will play a MAJOR role. First world teens are a bit different.

[ContrarianLemming]

There is no group more tolerant and open to new ides and questioning of the status quo then teens

[leftace53]

I first turned to politics when I was 15, trying to figure out policies in place and everything (I used to think gay marriage was wrong!). Slowly around 17 I realized how much of a commie I had become, and set out to explore it. Now, at 19, with my rebellious edge gone I try to find any little way I can help society be less oppressive, and have actually learnt to raise my voice against issues. Looking around my group of friends, there is still an overwhelming apathy to politics, and as difficult as it is to find leftists around campus, it is possible.
I definitely think that erasing the western facade of what they think communism is will improve the quality of education for it, and teens will flock to it (like I did)!.
:thumbup1:

[Coggeh]

I joined the CWI when i was 15 , now a paper organiser for my branch . Teenagers are extremely useful for the struggle, they don't have the same commitments that adults do such as job/family have more free time and are open to new ideas. Parties should actively go out to recruit young people.

Those who have the youth - have the future- Lenin

[RED DAVE]

Aristotle had it right:


They [Young People] have exalted notions, because they have not been humbled by life or learned its necessary limitations; moreover, their hopeful disposition makes them think themselves equal to great things -- and that means having exalted notions. They would always rather do noble deeds than useful ones: Their lives are regulated more by moral feeling than by reasoning -- all their mistakes are in the direction of doing things excessively and vehemently. They overdo everything -- they love too much, hate too much, and the same with everything else.I have only one objection, really, to young people: That I'm no longer one of them. :D

RED DAVE

[Kassad]

Going through the "teenage rebellion" when I was around 13-14 was the reason I found the works of Karl Marx. The real burning question comes about when youth decide whether or not to actually move from rebellion to actual theoretical development and class struggle. Honestly, I've been going to strikes and protests since I was 15 and my development as a Marxist came out of the stages of rebellion, so I think what's necessary, especially for revolutionary organizations, is to engage with youth and help them make that transition towards fighting for revolution, as opposed to becoming an armchair revolutionary or forsaking radicalism altogether.

I think all communists started saying "damn the man!" at some point, so we shouldn't rule out those who say it in their youth as potential comrades because they might not have as much political experience as older revolutionaries do.

[Scary Monster]

Hell yeah teens are useful for struggle. Ive never been to another country yet, but i recon its only first world teens that are a lil self-centered and such. Still, there are plenty of teens that are world-conscious. In fact, i would say that many who ive known are socialist, or at least anarchist, by default. It might be different in other parts of the US though, since i live around a metropolis. I remember when i was in high school 5 years ago, I was starting to wonder why is there still war, starving people, nukes, and all this terrible shit that goes on all the time- things that im sure most people wonder. Then i started realizing this is all connected to money, and the US fucking around with the rest of the world; A little more reading and voila- im a commie. Lol i remember a presentation i had to give to my psychology class about our beliefs. We had to do artwork and i had the USSR sickle and hammer and said how "money and greed causes nothing but problems and war! Communism is the opposite of this and there would be no more need for war!". I had a limited understanding of communism back then :lol:

I just think leftist organizations need to be revitalized like they were in the '60s, to inform all the kiddos about why they feel alienated and why war and the third world exists, how these are connected and show them what they can do about it.

[AK]

Well, I'd like to think I'd be useful for struggle...

On a more serious note, getting teens politically active and class conscious is a big step up from patriotic douchey when-I-grow-up-I-wanna-score-some-sick-headshots teens and teens in gangs. Today's teenagers are tomorrow's adults - like it or not. Getting teens class conscious would be one of the greatest things we would ever do.

[Argument]

It depends, each individual is different. Generally, I'd say that some teenagers between 16-19 could be useful, but generally, I don't think we should aim at teenagers.

[bricolage]

Capital doesn't discriminate by age.

[AK]

Capital doesn't discriminate by age.
This.

If teenagers are working class, why shouldn't they get involved?
It's not like teenagers and children are usually the ones with the shittiest wages...

[SammXVX]

The youth are extremely important in movements because we are the future. However, many kids are stuck in their parents beliefs and those of their friends, and not everyone is lucky enough to want to find their own meaning, or definition for being here.

But, student protests, like say Civil Rights era in America proved many points and helped push things a long smoothly. I think we're an much needed asset and it would be wonderful to form and get more young people into a strong left view.

[Qayin]

But, student protests, like say Civil Rights era in America proved many points and helped push things a long smoothly

Smoothly into the democrats pockets.

[SammXVX]

Smoothly into the democrats pockets. BUT the youth still made an effort that actually did something.
With that, youth who are armed with an anarchist mind, can probably push things further.

[Weezer]

It depends, each individual is different. Generally, I'd say that some teenagers between 16-19 could be useful, but generally, I don't think we should aim at teenagers.

This is coming from an anarchist.

How many teens have I seen with the circle A on their papers, binders, shirts, etc...I've seen a lot, I used to be one.

For someone who opposed to recruiting teenagers under 16, your ideology seems to recruit a lot. :rolleyes:

Ageism is discrimination, just like racism, sexism, and homophobia. It should not be tolerated.

[Qayin]

BUT the youth still made an effort that actually did something.
With that, youth who are armed with an anarchist mind, can probably push things further.

That's true, today's generation are dead. I puke when I see some liberal call themselves an anarchists, punk really destroyed this movement, don't get me wrong I love Punk/Hardcore but keep the subcultures out.

[Ol' Dirty]

I'm seventeen, so I'd say that teenagers need to be more politically active. We're the people who are going to inherit the Earth, so it's in out best best interests to be... well, interested.

[SammXVX]

That's true, today's generation are dead. I puke when I see some liberal call themselves an anarchists, punk really destroyed this movement, don't get me wrong I love Punk/Hardcore but keep the subcultures out.
Agreed, agreed. I mean, I can probably tell you it has helped me, but the idiots that are partaking in sub-cultures aren't always as successful.

[Argument]

How many teens have I seen with the circle A on their papers, binders, shirts, etc...I've seen a lot, I used to be one.I don't think I've seen that many, actually. Many people listening to "punk" tends to identify with the anarchist ideology, even though they aren't really anarchists. I'd say that most people under 16 who calls themselves anarchists are more interested in the music, the movement and the symbolism than actual anarchist theory. I guess there might be some 14-years old who really is an anarchist, but I don't think they are very common.


Ageism is discrimination, just like racism, sexism, and homophobia. It should not be tolerated.Are you implying that I am an ageist? Or was it just an unfortunate coincidence?

Also, we need to consider one risk with young teenagers and children: They are often very easy to manipulate. Sure, we could brainwash children under 5 (or 14 :rolleyes:) to believe in the anarchist ideology, but would that be anarchist?

[soyonstout]

TBH I think teenagers are one of the most important parts of the working class for the struggle. In my country (US) there have recently been spontaneous walk-outs of high schoolers both in New Jersey against budget cuts (started from a facebook group someone made--the governor called them unpatriotic or some crap) and in Arizona over the anti-immigrant law. These are [perhaps indirectly] related to and inspired by class struggle in California over cuts in education. Also students in Greece in Dec '08 were a vital factor, massive high-school student protest in Germany around that same time as well (en.internationalism.org/2009/wr/328/germany), and most importantly, the Student struggles in France in 2006 against the CPE, which was one of the most inspiring struggles in recent history--that won!

Youth are very preoccupied with their future--in the sense that they are told that the really important parts of their lives are ahead of them. Because of this, they feel capitalism's crisis very acutely when they think about how they are going to get a job, what kind of jobs will be available to them, how long they'll be paying back loans, if they'll ever be able to afford to have a family or if the family they have will be able to have a decent future, considering the difficulties of making it today. Yes, they are inexperienced, but they are an essential factor in the class struggle and I think a generalizing element, so to speak. When the youth struggle it isn't just about the miners or the teachers or this or that factory but about the whole future generation of the working class and it sets an example for their parents and in the last few years there's even a tendency for youth and parents to struggle together.

[Qayin]

These are [perhaps indirectly] related to and inspired by class struggle in California over cuts in education
Shout out to Modesto Anarcho!
http://www.modestoanarcho.org/

AS teens we are god damn useful! I started my own collective with local leftists/anarchists and organize ourselves and in a democratic and non-hierarchical manor. We run a Blogspot(Hasn't been updated in a few but will soon) about events to get organized for and various communiques, hey its a start.

Just don't manage our damn struggle! The rituals of leftists effectively run out teens because were sick of not doing anything and holding a damn sign, Alto/Puente in Arizona are the wanna be movement controllers and there protests are lame as hell.