the ten planks in the communist manifesto

[lulks]

in the communist manifesto it says this:

1. Abolition of property in land and application of all rents of land to public purposes.
2. A heavy progressive or graduated income tax.
3. Abolition of all rights of inheritance.
4. Confiscation of the property of all emigrants and rebels.
5. Centralisation of credit in the hands of the state, by means of a national bank with State capital and an exclusive monopoly.
6. Centralisation of the means of communication and transport in the hands of the State.
7. Extension of factories and instruments of production owned by the State; the bringing into cultivation of waste-lands, and the improvement of the soil generally in accordance with a common plan.
8. Equal liability of all to work. Establishment of industrial armies, especially for agriculture.
9. Combination of agriculture with manufacturing industries; gradual abolition of all the distinction between town and country by a more equable distribution of the populace over the country.
10. Free education for all children in public schools. Abolition of children’s factory labour in its present form. Combination of education with industrial production, &c, &c.

what was the exact purpose of these planks? i don't think that just these things constitute socialism.

i have argued against libertarians who say that the USA is socialist because it has these. to see an example of this argument, google "communist manifesto planks" and click the first one (i can't post links yet). what should i say to those people?

[SeaSpeck]

This was explained to me as the things Karl Marx thought proletariat would most likely enact after they take over the State.

[Nolan]

See my old thread on the subject:

http://www.revleft.com/vb/exactly-does-marx-t129854/index.html?t=129854

[AK]

i have argued against libertarians who say that the USA is socialist because it has these.
Really? Let's take a look.


1. Abolition of property in land and application of all rents of land to public purposes. We have this thing called "private property", or is that just a Communist lie?


2. A heavy progressive or graduated income tax. Wow. High taxes. They're like, everywhere anyway. What the hell is the point?


3. Abolition of all rights of inheritance. Last I checked, we had these things called "wills".


4. Confiscation of the property of all emigrants and rebels. As has been said before in many other threads, some of the ten planks are irrelavant to the modern world. This is one of them. It has something to do with 1800s agrarian Germany. I can't remember what.


5. Centralisation of credit in the hands of the state, by means of a national bank with State capital and an exclusive monopoly.
6. Centralisation of the means of communication and transport in the hands of the State.
7. Extension of factories and instruments of production owned by the State; the bringing into cultivation of waste-lands, and the improvement of the soil generally in accordance with a common plan. How the state is existent under communism, I have no idea.
An exclusive state monopoly, in a world of competing private banks? Yeah, right. There is also mass privatisation of communications and transport industries.


8. Equal liability of all to work. Establishment of industrial armies, especially for agriculture. I never got this anyway, wtf does it mean?


9. Combination of agriculture with manufacturing industries; gradual abolition of all the distinction between town and country by a more equable distribution of the populace over the country. Equitable distribution of population? Smells like totalitarianism.
I fail to see how population is equally distributed as most Americans live in cities...


10. Free education for all children in public schools. Abolition of children’s factory labour in its present form. Combination of education with industrial production, &c, &c. Well, I can't see kids being sent down to the mines. Any arguments to the contrary are misguided.

[el_chavista]

what was the exact purpose of these planks? i don't think that just these things constitute socialism.
These planks were our first socialist programme. There have been since then some other socialist programmes: Gotha's, Erfurt's. Trotsky made a revolutionary strategy out of a socialist programme: the transitional method for the permanent revolution.
Here is a sample of a modern transitional socialist programme by "Jackob Richter":


32-Hour Workweek Without Loss of Pay or Benefits
Class-Strugglist Assembly and Association: Self-Directional Demands
People’s Militias: The Full Extension of the Ability to Bear Arms
Local Autonomy and Alternative Local Currencies
Party-Recallable, Closed-List, and Pure Proportional Representation
Against Personal Inheritance: Ceremonial Nobility, Productive Property, and Child Poverty
Against Corporate Personhood and More: Corporations as Psychopaths
Socio-Income Democracy: Direct Democracy in Income Taxation
Progress, Poverty, and Economic Rent in Land
The Abolition of Indirect and Other Class-Regressive Taxation
“The Right to the City”
“Sliding Scale of Wages”: Cost-of-Living Adjustments and Living Wages
Private-Sector Collective Bargaining Representation as a Free Legal Service
Against Modern Enclosures of the Commons: Intellectual Property
Eminent Domain for Pre-Cooperative Worker Buyouts

[piet11111]

4. Confiscation of the property of all emigrants and rebels.

Easy anyone fleeing from the revolution (the Bourgeois obviously) forfeit their right to any possessions (factory's etc.) and all property will be placed in the hands of the people.
And rebels obviously means those that would fight against us.


8. Equal liability of all to work.

Spreading the work load evenly so nobody is without a job and starves to death.


Establishment of industrial armies,

The creation of a trained and educated working class.


Equitable distribution of population? Smells like totalitarianism.

Probably intended as a way to prevent people being forced to live in slums so they can get to work remember this stuff was written before people had cars ! (or even bikes)


Well, I can't see kids being sent down to the mines. Any arguments to the contrary are misguided.

The manifesto was first published in feb 21 1848 back then children where forced to work because of the poverty of the working classes their schools where the factory floors where they had to do some of the most dangerous jobs like cleaning machinery where adults could not get to.
Kids regularly lost limbs and that was the end of their working "career" in a time where there was no social security.

[Zanthorus]

Equitable distribution of population? Smells like totalitarianism.

Or it could just have been at attempt to get people to live in a more harmonious way with the environment insteading of cramming all industry and technology into concentrated areas.

[Palingenisis]

Or it could just have been at attempt to get people to live in a more harmonious way with the environment insteading of cramming all industry and technology into concentrated areas.

One of the goals of the communist movement is to get rid of the contradiction between urban and rural.

[mikelepore]

This is explained in the preface to the1872 edition.
http://marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1848/communist-manifesto/preface.htm

[Zanthorus]

One of the goals of the communist movement is to get rid of the contradiction between urban and rural.

I know. I was trying to think of a justification for it but I'm not familiar with any of the literature on that aspect of communism. Maybe I just shouldn't have typed anything :p

[AK]

Or it could just have been at attempt to get people to live in a more harmonious way with the environment insteading of cramming all industry and technology into concentrated areas.
You don't get jokes, do you?

[Zanthorus]

You don't get jokes, do you?

They don't tend to come across very well through text on an internet forum :p

[cb9's_unity]

You don't get jokes, do you?

I wasn't quite sure it was a joke either. But yah, I believe Marx saw a major form of antagonism as the difference between the town and the country. And back in germany in the 1800's I imagine the difference was much larger than the difference than today's cities and suburbs (which are usually just considered towns).

[Red Commissar]

See my old thread on the subject:

http://www.revleft.com/vb/exactly-does-marx-t129854/index.html?t=129854

For those of you who haven't looked through it, pay attention to this,


However much that state of things may have altered during the last twenty-five years, the general principles laid down in the Manifesto are, on the whole, as correct today as ever. Here and there, some detail might be improved. The practical application of the principles will depend, as the Manifesto itself states, everywhere and at all times, on the historical conditions for the time being existing, and, for that reason, no special stress is laid on the revolutionary measures proposed at the end of Section II. That passage would, in many respects, be very differently worded today. In view of the gigantic strides of Modern Industry since 1848, and of the accompanying improved and extended organization of the working class, in view of the practical experience gained, first in the February Revolution, and then, still more, in the Paris Commune, where the proletariat for the first time held political power for two whole months, this programme has in some details been antiquated.

- Preface to the Manifesto, 1872.