The Technocracy from Mage: The Ascension

[Hexen]

For those who play role playing games, I wonder what is the leftist POV of the Technocracy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technocracy_%28Mage:_The_Ascension%29) from Mage? Do they share most of our ideals and what is your opinion of them? Since their apparently the Leftist equivalent (since they have a goal when they first started as the "Order of Reason" to share their paradigm to everyone rather than keeping to themselves like their opposites ie the Traditions) in Mage but instead it seems that mostly based on right wing conspiracy theories than what what they supposedly supposed to represent.

So since everyone here knows about socialism accurately than everyone else, I was wondering if we could rewrite the Technocracy or create a faction that is accurate to real life socialism?

[The Inquisitor]

In my experience, the technocracy is just a dick move that the ST throws at werewolfs/vampires to threaten the veil/breach the masquerade. They bug everything, so no one really has any privacy. IMO, privacy is nice.

[The Vegan Marxist]

In my experience, the technocracy is just a dick move that the ST throws at werewolfs/vampires to threaten the veil/breach the masquerade. They bug everything, so no one really has any privacy. IMO, privacy is nice.

Wtf you talking about? And to the OP, the Venus Project is a nice model in which derives from Technocratic thought that builds under communist ideals.

[Hexen]

And to the OP, the Venus Project is a nice model in which derives from Technocratic thought that builds under communist ideals.

I think I'm talking about the Mage: The Ascension's Technocracy not the real life one which I was asking if their a example of demonizion of leftist beliefs or how do leftist view them. I think I was also asking if it's possible to create a faction or rewrite the Technocracy to be more accurate to real life leftism due to everyone here having a better understanding of leftist beliefs than everyone else.

[The Inquisitor]

Wtf you talking about? And to the OP, the Venus Project is a nice model in which derives from Technocratic thought that builds under communist ideals.

He asked about my opinion on the Technocracy from Mage the Ascension in World of Darkness. I play WoD quite a bit, so I told him what I thought of it. If you don't know what WoD is, I won't bother to explain it, but a real technocracy and the Technocracy in the game are two different things.

[Jazzratt]

In my experience, the technocracy is just a dick move that the ST throws at werewolfs/vampires to threaten the veil/breach the masquerade. They bug everything, so no one really has any privacy. IMO, privacy is nice.

They did nuke an antedeluvian because they don't fuck about, they aren't all bad.

Anyway, I'm going to chuck this in chit-chat, although perhaps starting a thread in this group (http://www.revleft.com/vb/group.php?groupid=147) might be the way to go; certainly might breathe life back into the bastard.

[Crunkenstein]

Hey, I'm speaking as a mage fan of many years. The Technocracy is decidedly neither technocratic nor socialist. Technocrats want humanity to conform to a plan of progress established by the order's elite. Some might say this resembles vanguardism, but nothing could be further from the truth. The Technocracy is -magic- and doesn't have to conform to reality. Reality as we know it today is only a single step in their plans, and Marx might be genius but he couldn't bend the laws of nature. The vision of the Technocracy probably stretchs so far into the future as to be more similar to science fantasy than communism, when humanity is intergalactic and in full control over physical laws. They resemble communism in the sense that they have "tendencies" that agents are expected to comply to, sometimes described as paradigm, convention, or methodology. But in a way, most human organizations has some kind of creed to comply to.

[The Inquisitor]

They did nuke an antedeluvian because they don't fuck about, they aren't all bad.
That depends on which way you're viewing it :p. I'm sure other Kindred didn't take too kind to it, but then again vampires are of the wyrm, so I can see where the good/evil factor plays into that.

[Jazzratt]

That depends on which way you're viewing it :p. I'm sure other Kindred didn't take too kind to it, but then again vampires are of the wyrm, so I can see where the good/evil factor plays into that.

The kindred were pretty happy. The plan of most antedeluvians, from what I remember, was "kill fucking everybody". I know that the Nossies were being hunted by their own founder, certainly. Also I think nukes are probably of the weaver of some shit, certainly not one with the whole garou nature lover thing.

@Crunkenstein. You're pretty much right, but I think Hexen is driving at an alternative character interpretation of the technocracy. Could be a plan. I've always wanted to run a technocracy-centred game, because they're pretty goddamn badass for villians and the sourcebook is awesome; I think putting a socialist spin on them (albeit with the WoD grimdark twists) would be interesting to say the least.

EDIT: I have no idea how it happens but I've talked more about Pen & Paper RPGs on this board than any other. Bloody weird.

[The Vegan Marxist]

Oh okay, my bad. Was about to say, I'm confused as shit! lol :thumbup1:

[Crunkenstein]

There's no reason why you can't make mage, vampire, or hell, changeling games around communism. Like say a Verbenna who uses the human lives shed at the gulags as part of an elaborate ritual. There's nothing intrinsically socialist about the setting, but there's enough room for socialists in the game world. Anyway, as for political characters, the Carthians in Vampire the Requiem are all about social and political experimentation.

[Invincible Summer]

Oh man... I remember Vampire the Masquerade

[Robocommie]

It makes me happy to see Old World of Darkness fans here. Hollah at my Werewolf and Mage peeps.

Anyhow, as I see it, the Technocracy represents control, first and foremost. Any noble ideals they initially set out with in the Renaissance has long since been corrupted into a desire for absolute social control for it's own sake. The war of paradigms is merely the mystical manifestation of that. Pure science and rationality represents the ability to define something, and if you can define it, you can control it. If you can shut out all the other paradigms as being superstition, you have achieved complete control over the minds of humanity.

The extreme obverse of this is what is actually achieved in Ascension; a paradise in which everyone's expectations and desires are played out in the world without intersecting or intruding upon the paradigmal expectations and desires of everyone else.

[Comrade Gwydion]

Which Antideluvian did they kill?

Anyhow, as a regular Toreador Anarch I must state that
a) I have very little interest in the goings and beings of the magi,
b) can attend that there truly are Socialist kindred in WoD, myself included, allthough means of production obviously is not as much an issue in Kindred life but rather the political organisation of unlife, in wich I think most socialist kindred could be considered non-marxist socialists.
(Cause seriously, kindred are bloodsuckers. None of them actually produce something.)




(I like oWoD Vampire and Werewolf, and I know a little bit about oWoD changeling and nWoD Vampire. I did read nWoD mage once, but don't remember much. I have no fucking clue what the technocracy is about, 'cept that they regularly fight with other mages, don't they?)

[Tablo]

Ewwwww, mages. They are almost as bad as the Nosferatu.. I still prefer them over those bloody Werewolves.

[Robocommie]

Which Antideluvian did they kill?

Ravana, the Ravnos ante, in Bangladesh.


I have no fucking clue what the technocracy is about, 'cept that they regularly fight with other mages, don't they?)

Sortof, except they don't see themselves as mages anymore. They're basically the big villain group of Mage; they're a vast, global conspiracy that uses high technology and science, with an ultimate aim of controlling the globe and promoting safety over freedom. They claim to be about science and rationality but in the long run it's really about control. They're kindof like the Illuminati or the Men in Black (not the movie) and all that conspiracy theory, new world order stuff, except real.

[Crunkenstein]

Personally, I believe Ascension simply means the awakening of all people, so that the entire human race are Magi. Therefore, control isn't necessarily a means to Ascension. The Technocracy, if they win, will of course have a massive impact on how post-Ascension life of all these Awakened really works. But until then, the Traditions are merely superstitions that must be weeded out, like you said, because they contribute to human ignorance.

[Comrade Gwydion]

Ravana, the Ravnos ante, in Bangladesh.

Ah. As I am also a Ravnos player often, I thank them for that. I didn't mind the Ravnos going cukoo for a while, but if their ante had survived longer, I'd have to say good bye to my lovely manipulators.



Sortof, except they don't see themselves as mages anymore. They're basically the big villain group of Mage; they're a vast, global conspiracy that uses high technology and science, with an ultimate aim of controlling the globe and promoting safety over freedom. They claim to be about science and rationality but in the long run it's really about control. They're kindof like the Illuminati or the Men in Black (not the movie) and all that conspiracy theory, new world order stuff, except real.
M'okay.
And how powerfull are they actually? Because in Vampires, it seems like everything is controlled by either Camarilla or Sabbat or independend monsters, while Pentex also seems to be in control of virtually all companies in the world.

Reminds me of a time I had designed a complete Dublin. There was this poisonous make-up factory wich was co-owned by Pentex and the Setites, thought they didn't know who the second owner was.

[Crunkenstein]

Pentex is actually a branch of the Technocracy, specifically the Syndicate convention. As for power, it's hard to tell, but over-powered magi can cast spells that replicate most the other benefits of being a supernatural, and then some. A good mage player can take out a supernatural of the same experience level.