Awesome 14 year old votes in election. Wants socialism.

[REVLEFT'S BIEGGST MATSER TROL]

A 14-year-old boy from Lancashire who voted in the general election said he did it because he "wanted to make a difference".
Alfie McKenzie, from Poulton-le-Fylde, voted for the Liberal Democrats in the Wyre and Preston North constituency, after being sent a polling card.
He was only caught when he confided in a teacher at school. His head teacher called the local council and police.
Ben Wallace won the seat for the Conservatives with a 15,844 majority.
Wyre Borough Council and Lancashire police have both said they are investigating.
Alfie went to his local polling station before school on Thursday, wearing a trench coat, glasses, jeans and smart shoes so officials would "think I was a Tory".
"I knew they wouldn't suspect an under-18 for voting Tory," he said.
Alfie said he was "very serious" about politics and socialism, but decided to vote Liberal Democrat as a tactical option.
He said: "There's not a socialist candidate in our area and unfortunately even if there was it would be a wasted vote. I've looked into it and the best option for a socialist is the Liberal Democrats.
"I did want to make a difference - unfortunately I didn't."
Alfie's mum, Nadine Wiseman, said she had asked him not to vote, after he received the polling card, but she "wasn't surprised" when he did.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/election_2010/england/8670022.stm

I'd buy this guy a pint if it wasn't against the law.



Anyway, it just seems interesting that this kid directly states that he is for socialism..someone should try get in contact with him if they can perhaps? Could do worse than making an account on revleft at the least.

[Saorsa]

That kid rocks. Although voting for the Lib Dems indicates he still has a long way to go...

[The Vegan Marxist]

Long way to go, but definitely the right way to go. This kid has some balls!

[Chambered Word]

That kid rocks. Although voting for the Lib Dems indicates he still has a long way to go...

Eh?


Alfie said he was "very serious" about politics and socialism, but decided to vote Liberal Democrat as a tactical option.
He said: "There's not a socialist candidate in our area and unfortunately even if there was it would be a wasted vote. I've looked into it and the best option for a socialist is the Liberal Democrats.


Obviously the Lib Dems aren't nearly as good as a socialist candidate but at least he's trying.

I hope he finds RevLeft. :p

[bcbm]

wow a kid voted what a fucking badass

[bailey_187]

this seems like a regular thing. When i was about 13 in the 2005 election my mate who was 15 got sent a polling card. he didnt vote though, we didnt really care.

[NecroCommie]

Heh, even a 14-year old understand how the system is rigged in favour of tories. "No one would suspect a Tory." :lol:

[Spawn of Stalin]

By socialism I would imagine he probably just means a healthy welfare state and nationalisation of a few key industries. If he was a revolutionary socialist he absolutely would not have voted Liberal

[The Idler]

By socialism I would imagine he probably just means a healthy welfare state and nationalisation of a few key industries. If he was a revolutionary socialist he absolutely would not have voted Liberal
He stood for the Socialist Labour Party in school elections. In his constituency the candidates were Lib, Lab and Con.
Apparently, when The Sun rang, he told them where to get off.

[Buddha Samurai Cadre]

What school does he go, i could know him

[The Idler]

He's on Twitter (http://twitter.com/AlfieJMcK)

[Buddha Samurai Cadre]

Blackpool lol

TBH he just seems a middle class snot nosed kid.

You know the Obama loving crowd.

Check yall grown ass men having a rave over this shit haha

[The Idler]

What school does he go, i could know him


Blackpool lol

TBH he just seems a middle class snot nosed kid.

You know the Obama loving crowd.

Check yall grown ass men having a rave over this shit haha
So how many middle class snot-nosed schoolkids do you know?

[REVLEFT'S BIEGGST MATSER TROL]

By socialism I would imagine he probably just means a healthy welfare state and nationalisation of a few key industries. If he was a revolutionary socialist he absolutely would not have voted Liberal Why not? They were more socialist than labour last election, and with possibly more chance of winning (and bringing in PR if they do get a decent amount of seats).

I mean, considering how the SWP, CWI and the rest of the british left called for a vote for labour and half the other "socialist" parties i know of actually have a hard time differentiating between themselves and left of centre social democrats and or/obama I think voting lib dem isn't half bad for a 14 year old kid.


Blackpool lol

TBH he just seems a middle class snot nosed kid.

You know the Obama loving crowd.

Check yall grown ass men having a rave over this shit haha

Go away.

[The Idler]

He makes his case in the Guardian here (http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2010/may/09/alfie-mckenzie-14-year-old-voter).

He has a fan page here (http://www.facebook.com/pages/Vote-Alfie-McKenzie/120106338017746)

[Buddha Samurai Cadre]

to think i was becoming a convict

He is a toff and you lot rimming this dweeb makes us look like pricks to the real lads in working class areas

Fucking suit and tie wearing bastard, he can come to salford and spout his bullshit and he will leave without those teeth.

Shame on all of you for making this bellend out to be a socialist.

My mate here took one look and said to me if he is a socialist im not one, you guys using this squinge as a poster boy allienates any lads off the street.

OK maybe an over reaction, but this guy is so fucking posh i mean, class fucking enemy

Bill hicks and tony benn are his heroes

Well i guess that settles it,he isnt a socialist and hasnt given up on bourgeoise politics

i voted libdem because everyone has the opportunity to be treated equal, oh except those people in afghanistan the libdems will continue dropping bombs on, oh and those zionists we support, oh and those people who work for the companies that give money to the libdems.

GTFO

[Bandito]

A 14-year-old boy from LancashireWas that RedAnarchist? :lol:

[bailey_187]

tbh, in his article he comes of as a bit of a "old labour" bennite twat. kids like this arnt exactly rare.

[Buddha Samurai Cadre]

bailey i couldnt agree more.

Trash this thread, any visitor who sees this kid and thinks he is a socialist wioll be a die hard capitalist

[Crux]

I am starting to suspect Osama Bin Drinkin is 14. I mean seriously, for a 14 year old the kids brilliant. I hope he changes his mind about the lib dems though, but there's plenty of time for that.

[Robocommie]

wow a kid voted what a fucking badass

You're a cynic. :lol:

[Spawn of Stalin]

Why not? They were more socialist than labour last election, and with possibly more chance of winning (and bringing in PR if they do get a decent amount of seats).

I mean, considering how the SWP, CWI and the rest of the british left called for a vote for labour and half the other "socialist" parties i know of actually have a hard time differentiating between themselves and left of centre social democrats and or/obama I think voting lib dem isn't half bad for a 14 year old kid.

I don't see why the fact that he's 14 makes a difference. Not half bad? Come on, it's not like all kids are reactionary and the average 14 year old would vote for the BNP or anything. And I do not accept that the Lib Dems are any more socialist that Labour, they are both capitalist parties, both support private ownership, there isn't a shred of socialism in either party. I am of the opinion that anyone who supports voting for bourgeois imperialist parties, whether it is some 14 year old kid, of the SWP, can not be a revolutionary socialist in this day and age, a century ago? Perhaps, but not any more, they oppose everything we stand for, the idea that we should give them our votes is preposterous.

He stood for the Socialist Labour Party in school elections. In his constituency the candidates were Lib, Lab and Con.
Apparently, when The Sun rang, he told them where to get off.
SLP are social democrats, they proved this when they expelled the whole Lalkar group for trying to introduce Marxism into the party.

[rednordman]

I dont really see why there was such a deal made about this. I mean the council and police where informed? Its not like the kid commited murder or anything. Mistakes happen and as some of you have already mentioned, you too have been sent ballot cards by mistake. Big deal.

Fair play to him though. He went for the anti-tory vote. How can we possible even consider slating him for that?

@motionless: you say that both the labour and libdems do not oppose private ownership, which we all can see is true. Are there actually any polictical parties whatsoever, who participate in elections that seriously oppose it?

[Buddha Samurai Cadre]

no, thats why we dont vote

[Lenina Rosenweg]

Its silly criticising this kid for "not giving up on bourgeois politics" or even being a "class collaborator". Of course he's politically confused-he's 14!

What happened to Lenin's method of "patiently explaining"?

He is clearly a very bright kid. I hope someone is initiating discussions with him.

[Buddha Samurai Cadre]

it easy being articulate when your middle class

[Crux]

it easy being articulate when your middle classOsama Bin Drinkin is definitely 14.

[The Red Next Door]

This is awesome, it always interesting to see young tweens or children interested politics, especially revolutionary left politics, but i hope, he realize soon that the center is not always the best choice.

[Spawn of Stalin]

@motionless: you say that both the labour and libdems do not oppose private ownership, which we all can see is true. Are there actually any polictical parties whatsoever, who participate in elections that seriously oppose it?

There are some which at least claim to seriously oppose capitalism, whether or not they actually do I can not say for sure.

But hey, I'm open minded, if he seriously is a socialist then good for him, but I somehow doubt it, on his Twitter page he states that "I think the rich, the poor, the middle ground ALL have a moral obligation to work together and give equal opportunities", to me that sounds something a liberal would say, now if he instead said something like "I think the poor and the middle ground should rise up and overthrow the rich, expropriate their wealth and implement a new system of true self-governance", then I would say that he is most definitely a socialist. I'm sure he means well, but he clearly isn't educated in class politics and therefore can not be a socialist. When I was 14 I was reading Class War, not voting Lib Dem. Maybe someone with a Twitter account should put some questions to him, "do you support the right to own private property" would probably be a good place to start. I really doubt he is a socialist, but I would really like to be proven wrong.

[RedAnarchist]

Was that RedAnarchist? :lol:

Similar part of Lancashire, but I'm a decade older.:lol:

[The Idler]

to think i was becoming a convict

He is a toff and you lot rimming this dweeb makes us look like pricks to the real lads in working class areas

Fucking suit and tie wearing bastard, he can come to salford and spout his bullshit and he will leave without those teeth.

Shame on all of you for making this bellend out to be a socialist.

My mate here took one look and said to me if he is a socialist im not one, you guys using this squinge as a poster boy allienates any lads off the street.

OK maybe an over reaction, but this guy is so fucking posh i mean, class fucking enemy

Bill hicks and tony benn are his heroes

Well i guess that settles it,he isnt a socialist and hasnt given up on bourgeoise politics

i voted libdem because everyone has the opportunity to be treated equal, oh except those people in afghanistan the libdems will continue dropping bombs on, oh and those zionists we support, oh and those people who work for the companies that give money to the libdems.

GTFO
FFS he's 14. Socialist Labour Party may be the first socialist party he's heard of, and he may not be familiar with the Lalkar expulsion. At least he doesn't think anyone being "working-class" is a prerequisite of socialism (er what about Alex Callinicos, Peter Kropotkin etc.) or use as his signature "put down the bomb, pick up the bong, muslims and infidels can all get along :)". Maybe when you reach 14 you'll have matured a bit.

[blackwave]

By socialism I would imagine he probably just means a healthy welfare state and nationalisation of a few key industries. If he was a revolutionary socialist he absolutely would not have voted Liberal

I voted liberals in hope of keeping the tories out.

[Buddha Samurai Cadre]

lol

You see mate, the working class dont talk like psuedo intellectal knobs all day.

Yeah theres a joke in my sig, sowhat, i am working class and im not some posh inteelectual poser, and all you petit bourgeosie students fingering themselves over this little class enemy need to get a grip on reality.

Should we go out and give out leaflets, should we organise a homeless shelter, Nah lets wank each other off over some Liberal tosspot

Genius

[Raúl Duke]

^^^

"I'm more prole than thou"

[Sam_b]

Osama Bin Drinkin is perhaps the most annoying new addition to Revleft.

[Buddha Samurai Cadre]

Second if this tosser joins

[Spawn of Stalin]

I voted liberals in hope of keeping the tories out.

You voted for reactionaries to keep some other reactionaries out, okay that doesn't make much sense to me but I can completely understand why some slightly misguided people would do such a thing. So where does it end? Would you vote Tory to keep the BNP out? Would you vote BNP to keep the NF out? You see where I'm taking this...there was a time when I would have endorsed giving votes to "progressive" imperialist parties to keep the more reactionary ones out so I'm not going to get on my high horse about it, but I think that it is an entirely foolish tactic. Lesser evil politics just don't do anyone any favours.

[Buddha Samurai Cadre]

Socialist workers party eh

good for you sam b bet you fit right in there

[Spawn of Stalin]

lol

You see mate, the working class dont talk like psuedo intellectal knobs all day.

Yeah theres a joke in my sig, sowhat, i am working class and im not some posh inteelectual poser, and all you petit bourgeosie students fingering themselves over this little class enemy need to get a grip on reality.

Should we go out and give out leaflets, should we organise a homeless shelter, Nah lets wank each other off over some Liberal tosspot

Genius

Is there really a need for such a bad attitude...I can't say I'm in agreement with the people singing this kid's praises, but at the end of the day, he is just a kid, so do try to lay off

[Wanted Man]

Osama Bin Drinkin is definitely 14.

And not very articulate.


Osama Bin Drinkin is perhaps the most annoying new addition to Revleft.

New? I thought he was a clone of some banned guy, and I was wondering why the admins were being so slow. If he's genuine, that's bad news; it means we will have to put up with him for as long as he sees fit.

[EddieBhoy]

I heard his vote won't count.
What's the point?... the people at the poll stations made a big mistake, I doubt it will happen again.

[Buddha Samurai Cadre]

Sorry learned socialists, us common folk will have to learn off yall.

Be so kind as to let me go now boss

Revleft is good for theoretical masturbation, nothing more.

I was well pleased when i found a socialist site, but its filled with inactive people who just want to critisize differing sects or latch on to some false hope like a socialist teenager, i was socialist at 14, so what, i didnt vote for fucking capitalists though

[Lenina Rosenweg]

"I was far more radical than this kid when I was 14. Where's he getting off, getting all this media attention? He's obviously not even a socialist, he voted LibDem and spouts utopian bullshit that "everyone should get along". He's just a liberal wanker and a class enemy".

There seems to be more than a hint of personal jealousy here.Whatever background he comes from, he's a bright kid who's moving towards socialist conclusions and who had enough chutzpah to cast a vote. Simple as that.

The criticisms come from someone who on another thread kept complaining about how he was bored by Marxist theory.

[gorillafuck]

Should we go out and give out leaflets, should we organise a homeless shelter, Nah lets wank each other off over some Liberal tosspot
Another person coming in here and running their mouth off on how nobody here does any actual political work. Awesome.

[Buddha Samurai Cadre]

yeah im jealous thats it

Maybe i am sick of students and posh pricks telling my class what our politics and outlook should be.

Maybe i just want to smash this lads teeth in with a hammer and watch him cry, who knows.

Or maybe i dont like snobby rich kids who think they are fucking great cause they voted for a party who will continue the genocide in Afganistan and continue this rotten capitalist system.

Why dont you all stop loving class enemies and act like hmmm i dont know, people who have the working classes interests at heart.

[Spawn of Stalin]

Bored of Osama. Pls ban.

[scarletghoul]

You want a 14 year old socialist ? Polish Soviet sets the standard imho, this kids got nothing on him

[gorillafuck]

Maybe i just want to smash this lads teeth in with a hammer and watch him cry, who knows.
Man you're wicked cool. I wish I could make fiery statements like that. Maybe someday.

[Buddha Samurai Cadre]

lol

[Raightning]

Osama's definitely bin drinkin', judging from this thread. :blink:

Good for the kid. Sure, he's a reformist, but most socialists are at that age. It's hard not to be with the amount of 'our society is liberal and democratic and freedom reigns!' crap that's thrust down your throat at that age. And I'd rather have someone with a genuine socialist conscience who wants to make a difference than a bitter 'prolier-than-thou' twat who wants to be the only socialist in the village.

[RedAnarchist]

Moved to Chit Chat.

[Mumbles]

Dude, Osama, if you don't like it here you can leave. It's a personal choice. You don't have to be an ass about not liking this kids choice. So what if he voted? It's probably all he knew he could do at that age.

It takes education to unlearn what you've been taught since birth, that voting changes stuff.

If you're truly angered by his decision then explain to him why voting is ineffective. He'll probably understand if he truly cares. He just needs to know there are alternatives, effective ones.

[RHIZOMES]

Was that RedAnarchist? :lol:

:lol::lol::lol:

But yeah this kid strikes me as a tad bourgie.

[Robocommie]

You want a 14 year old socialist ? Polish Soviet sets the standard imho, this kids got nothing on him

Dude Polish is 14? No fucking way.

[REVLEFT'S BIEGGST MATSER TROL]

Fucks sake guys, I cannot honestly believe some numpties on this thread are actually having the nerve to critise a 14 year old kid for wanting to vote for the already obscure as hell socialist labour party cause apparently he didn't know some even more minor group within the party got expelled X years ago for trying to introduce Marxism. And apparently this makes him a "twat" or stupid or something.

And so what if he was a bennite? I was at 14, do you expect people to walk into the world fully formed as hardcore marxists or something, and if they aren't they're excluded from the self righteous ghetto we made ourselves? And what must you think of the intelligence of most workers right now, seeing as they are far more right wing than this allegedly "Bennite" kid. I made this thread just for a bit of fun but it makes for depressing reading now.

Jesus Christ i suppose all you lot must of been outright geniuses at 14 then? Forgive my cynicism at that idea since I do happen to read your posts right now.

[REVLEFT'S BIEGGST MATSER TROL]

yeah im jealous thats it

Maybe i am sick of students and posh pricks telling my class what our politics and outlook should be.

Maybe i just want to smash this lads teeth in with a hammer and watch him cry, who knows.

Or maybe i dont like snobby rich kids who think they are fucking great cause they voted for a party who will continue the genocide in Afganistan and continue this rotten capitalist system.

Why dont you all stop loving class enemies and act like hmmm i dont know, people who have the working classes interests at heart.

I'm please this thread has been moved to chit chat so to better enable the trolling of Osama :P

Also, while you may be the proliest of proles on here at the moment, Osama, I doubt you have shit on RED ARMY FACTION, who truly set the standard for proletarianazation around here, so we aren't going to be too impressed.

[LeninBalls]

Should we go out and give out leaflets, should we organise a homeless shelter, Nah lets wank each other off over some Liberal tosspot

Osama Bin Drinkin

Join Date
1st May 2010
Total Posts
250

Cool, man.

[Wanted Man]

Well, it's obvious that he's a snobby bourgeois rich kid. He has a clean face, longish hair and he can express himself well. Real working-class lads have buzz cuts, wear track suits and sneer at passers-by, telling them to "fuck off". Everyone knows this.

Also, contrary to this snobby rich kid, everyone here on Revleft was able to fully explain socialism, with full awareness of everything it stands for and all its nuances, at the tender age of 14. But of course, they're not going to try to explain it to those useless pricks called "the masses". We're so lucky to have comrades like that, while the snobby rich kid is writing for The Guardian. Socialism needs to have an ugly face, and anybody who tries to make it accessible is a fucking sell-out.

It's so great that we have this collective wisdom here at Revleft.

[Angry Young Man]

Maybe i am sick of students and posh pricks telling my class what our politics and outlook should be.

I only know one or two posh left-wing students. All the posh students are politically apathetic. See Jimmy Porter's rant on his brother-in-law Nigel to understand why.


Maybe i just want to smash this lads teeth in with a hammer and watch him cry, who knows.
That's great, kid. You want to torture a school boy. Even the Stalindroids facepalmed there


Or maybe i dont like snobby rich kids who think they are fucking great cause they voted for a party who will continue the genocide in Afganistan and continue this rotten capitalist system.

A tactical vote is where you don't have any pretensions that the party you vote for represents your interests. The Lib Dems > the Tories


Why dont you all stop loving class enemies and act like hmmm i dont know, people who have the working classes interests at heart.

In the short-term, blocking the Tories is in the working-class interest.

I miss BPSocialist. He was never this gormless

[Chambered Word]

Should we talk to him on Twitter or something?

[Angry Young Man]

Yup.

[Lyev]

I could approach the chap as I am a similar age and got interested in Marxism at around about his age (I was bought the communist manifesto for 14th birthday). And we live in the same country, so there's common ground there. It's a matter of some sort of contact, or email. Can anyone find one?

Hopefully I'll be able to mould his young mind into thinking like a dogmatic, orthodox Cliffite. :)

[bailey_187]

Fucks sake guys, I cannot honestly believe some numpties on this thread are actually having the nerve to critise a 14 year old kid for wanting to vote for the already obscure as hell socialist labour party cause apparently he didn't know some even more minor group within the party got expelled X years ago for trying to introduce Marxism. And apparently this makes him a "twat" or stupid or something.

And so what if he was a bennite? I was at 14, do you expect people to walk into the world fully formed as hardcore marxists or something, and if they aren't they're excluded from the self righteous ghetto we made ourselves? And what must you think of the intelligence of most workers right now, seeing as they are far more right wing than this allegedly "Bennite" kid. I made this thread just for a bit of fun but it makes for depressing reading now.

yeah ok i was abit harsh. still, a kid supporting "old" labour isnt exactly rare.



Jesus Christ i suppose all you lot must of been outright geniuses at 14 then?

no just running road like most 14 year olds :thumbup1:

[Il Medico]

Osama, you're a fucking idiot. "Real" workers aren't some testosterone overdosed, knuckle-draggers who attack all the "posh middle class assholes" for bathing regularly and going to school. The world would indeed be a better place if you idiots who want to pigeonhole working class culture into angry anti-intellectual caricature didn't exist.

[Lyev]

Average prol' right here, yeah, don't mess.
http://s.bebo.com/app-image/6312920582/6312837630/PROFILE/i.idlestudios.com/img/q/u/08/03/27/44264220-chav.jpg
I bet he's sweaty and dumb.

[Lyev]

I'm gonna email him, but I'm not sure what to say. Firstly for having the balls to do it, and to commend him, then I'll try and gauge the depth of his politics. Apparently Tony Benn is one of his heroes.

[Spawn of Stalin]

Don't call him comrade, could alienate him

[Spawn of Stalin]

"Hi, I'm a Bolshevik-Leninist from Somerset, I was just hoping I could test you to see if you are actually a socialist or just some liberal dork"

[Lyev]

"Hi, I'm a Bolshevik-Leninist from Somerset, I was just hoping I could test you to see if you are actually a socialist or just some liberal dork"haha, yah I like that. Here's what I've got so far:

Hello,

First of all, hope you don't mind if I email you. You have probably been getting lots of publicity, attention etc., what with your story being in the media. Also, I would like to commend you on having the courage to go out and vote like that.

And also for putting a friendly face on socialism in the UK. I don't know if you are aware of the Trade Unionist and Socialist Coalition (TUSC) but they only got something like 14,000 votes nationwide. However, this most likely due to a lot of people voting Labour, simply to keep the Tories out.

I am a member of the Socialist Party of England and Wales (SPEW). The international affiliation of which is the Committee for a Workers' International (CWI). I was wondering if you are part any socialist party? I think I read you have connections to the Socialist Labour Party.

Something else that came to mind is a question that is hotly debated within the leftist movement. It is one that has divided opinion, since arguments between Rosa Luxemburg and Eduard Bernstein*. Do you believe socialism (i.e. equal ownership over the means of production) can be implemented purely by parliamentary means (in other words, reformism) or do you think something more extreme is needed? This "extreme" being the total overthrow of the present capitalist system, via revolution.

Anyway, thanks very much for having the time to read my email, and sorry for being nosy about your views, it's just that it's quite rare to see someone as young as me (I'm 16) in the media, being interviewed about their socialist views.

Thanks again,

my name

P.S. I heard also that you stood in a mock election at your school. I did something similar to this, but I lost miserably, with about 23 votes, as opposed to some 400 by the Lib-Dems."

*In case you didn't know (if you do know, sorry if this is patronising!) these were two people involved in the socialist movement under the Weimar republic in the 1910s. Luxemburg was pro-revolution and Bernstein was pro-reformism.

EDIT: I sent it anyway. Hope he likes it.

[bailey_187]

the debate preceded the Weimar Republic (which was ~1918-33). it was in Wilhelmine Germany. sorry to be picky, just saying.

[bailey_187]

Average prol' right here, yeah, don't mess.
http://s.bebo.com/app-image/6312920582/6312837630/PROFILE/i.idlestudios.com/img/q/u/08/03/27/44264220-chav.jpg
I bet he's sweaty and dumb.

thing is, everyone was wearing burberry (albeit fake mostly) back in early 2000s. then the whole "chav" thing came about....

[Tyrlop]

UUH cant wait for reply this is my lifes biggest experience :lol: :laugh: :wub:

[REVLEFT'S BIEGGST MATSER TROL]

Should we talk to him on Twitter or something?

Yeah, I don't have twitter, but if I would I'd link him revleft at the least. :)

[Os Cangaceiros]

This thread brightened up my day.

Thanks for the lolz-worthy posts, guys.

[InuyashaKnight]

Good kid there.

[Robocommie]

That's great, kid. You want to torture a school boy. Even the Stalindroids facepalmed there

I lol'd. :D

[Lyev]

UUH cant wait for reply this is my lifes biggest experience :lol: :laugh: :wub:Here it is. Bare in mind he is only 14.

Hello, Archie
I think that whilst a socialist revolution would be nice (understatement), it would definitely be a step backwards for every body. Now that the world is capitalist and profiteering is found in every dark corner, we need to work towards making sure that we have a socialist government in a capitalist world. This way we can still have the moral implications of socialism but the progress that capitalism offers right now.

I sincerely wish I did have connections with SLP, as out of the socialist parties they are the party that I agree with most. I think Scargill is a great man who talks a lot of sense, and it is a shame that voting for him is a wasted vote. There ARE socialist MPs in Labour at the moment, which is promising, but they obviously don't hold senior positions which is also a shame.

I lost in my mock election -- 20 votes as opposed to the conservative 88 votes that won. Wasn't a good day.

I've been approached by SPGB, but I can't say I agree with there impossiblist traditions; completely unrealistic and hard to attain!

Yours sincerely,
AlfThe mock election bit was because I mentioned that I had one as well at my school. I stood for SPEW and got 23 votes, whilst the Lib-Dems got around 420. It was a dark day for socialism.

Anyway, tips for replying? I don't want to seem patronising, or that I'm trying to force my views on him. That "step backwards for everybody" thing definitely needs a rebuttal.

[Lyev]

the debate preceded the Weimar Republic (which was ~1918-33). it was in Wilhelmine Germany. sorry to be picky, just saying.Ah well, sent it anyway now.

[Spawn of Stalin]

Well I think that he said four key things which pretty much confirm that he is a social democrat/social liberal.

1. "I think that whilst a socialist revolution would be nice (understatement), it would definitely be a step backwards for every body." - No, just, no.

2. "This way we can still have the moral implications of socialism but the progress that capitalism offers right now." - This is a social democrat talking, he thinks that capitalism offers progress, just that it needs to be made more citizen friendly.

3. "I think Scargill is a great man who talks a lot of sense, and it is a shame that voting for him is a wasted vote." - This is an entirely bourgeois outlook, voting for Scargill, or any other socialist for that matter, is absolutely worthwhile so long as you agree with them. I don't need to explain to you guys why standing in elections isn't just about winning seats.

4. "There ARE socialist MPs in Labour at the moment, which is promising, but they obviously don't hold senior positions which is also a shame." - This is of course false, if he can show me a single socialist Labour MP, that is, a Labour MP who openly advocates the complete overthrow capitalism and Labour's brand of social democracy, I'll quit CPGB-ML and join Labour, that's a promise. It seems that young Alfie McKenzie has been reading Tony Benn's Westminster diaries a little too much, he's blatantly a big fan of "Red" Ken, I'd bet my brogues on it

Fair play to the kid for actually replying, but as I suspected, no scientific outlook whatsoever and not even a hint of class politics. I imagine he has a very American view of socialism which is more akin to Scandinavian social democracy.

[Jazzratt]

When I was 14 I wanted everyone to vote conservative because they promised to keep the pound. I shit you not. My parents were less than proud, I'll tell you that much.

This kid could turn out pretty revolutionary, given time.

[Sam_b]

When I was 14 I wanted everyone to vote conservative because they promised to keep the pound

eerily similar to my experiences, though a couple of years before.

[Lenina Rosenweg]

Lyev,

Its very good of you to email this kid and open up a dialogue.I am glad you did this instead of someone else (i.e. BuddhaSamurai). I'm not an expert but some suggestions.






1. "I think that whilst a socialist revolution would be nice (understatement), it would definitely be a step backwards for every body."

2. "This way we can still have the moral implications of socialism but the progress that capitalism offers right now."


He feels socialism is preferable on moral grounds but realistically capitalism is more efficient. A lot of people in the US feel this way.You could point out

* Two years ago there were food riots in 33 countries. This is directly attributable to the subprime mortgage crisis in the US. Investors took their money out of the housing market, into the chimera of synfuels, jacking up soy proves worldwide.

*There are 6 billion people in the world. 1 billion live on $1/day, 2 billion on $2/day, while people like Warren Buffet, Carlos Slim, Gates, etc. own more wealth than many countries. (I don't have time to do research and I know "billion" has a diff. meaning in US and UK but this is the general idea)

*Business cycles are integral to capitalism, you can't have capitalism w/out them. Every 7-9 years people's lives are ruined just so the system can remain profitable.Capitalism by definition is chaotic. Noone is in control, not even capitalists themselves.

*The capitalist crisis is getting worse, from the early 70s to the present. A friend of mine said that whoever is president in 20 years will have to be very mean, in order to continue to extract a profitable level of surplus value.

*Market based "carbon capping" can't work. The environmental crisis is very real and is scary. It can only be solved though democratic economic planning.

*Devastation and exploitation of Third World countries have been integral to the development of capitalism. Slavery helped fuel the Industrial Revolution.its complicated but patterns of capitalist hegemony keep areas undeveloped today.

Its not just that socialism is nicer, its that capitalism cannot work in terms of fulfilling human needs.




3. "I think Scargill is a great man who talks a lot of sense, and it is a shame that voting for him is a wasted vote."
This is the "politics of lesser evilism", very pervasive in the US. Marx argued for an independent politics of the working class. As I understand Labour once was a worker's party-the trade unions broke free of the Liberals. This is the only way forward, not allowing the masters to use us as pawns for a few crumbs off the table. The history of the US Democratic Party is very illustrative of this.


4. [B]"There ARE socialist MPs in Labour at the moment, which is promising, but they obviously don't hold senior positions which is also a shame."



Tell Alfie MacKenzie the story of Militant, Liverpool in the 90s, the poll tax resistance.

Hope this helps,just some ideas.

[cb9's_unity]

Anybody remember the user Floyce White? The guy who though Marx's theory was discredited because he was bourgeois. The guy who must have been totally right because his father and his grandfather were both pure proletarians. Osama bin drinkn/Buddha Samurai Cadre/SalfordSocialist is probably what that guy was when he was 14.

Also, the kids reasoning isn't the worst I've ever seen, and it really isn't that bad for a 14 year old. He honestly looks a lot further along than I was when I was 14 (right around the time I joined this site).

[Chambered Word]

^What Lenina said. I'm 15 and so far I've only been convinced by revolutionary politics for nearly a year. If we have enough time on our hands we should be helping this kid understand revolutionary socialism and trying to win him over to our side. Not only would we have another comrade, if the public were to hear that he'd become a real communist it might give our politics more legitimacy - if only a bit.

[Raúl Duke]

Anybody remember the user Floyce White?lol he's a joke.

I think after a very very long time here he may (although not sure, maybe he left) got the boot for his homophobia and/or stance against transgendered.

Although before that I think most people found him very annoying.