Socialism cause greece's problems?

[The Red Next Door]

My teacher was telling us, that the financial problems in greece is a result of socialism. I basically told her that capitalism is cause. but what point should i give, to this statement?

[Nolan]

You should have just acted smartass and said you blame the lizard people or something. I don't know about you, but I'm fucking sick of this sort of thing.

[Barry Lyndon]

This stems from the false premise that any government social programs is "socialist".
Of course, people used to say that things like a minimum wage and a 8-hour workday were communist ideas.

Basically, when it is totally obvious that capitalism is a failure, proponents of capitalism baldly lie and try to claim that the failing capitalist practices are somehow 'socialist'. That's because 'free-market' ideology is not a economic theory, it's a religion, so it can never be wrong.

[Crux]

My teacher was telling us, that the financial problems in greece is a result of socialism. I basically told her that capitalism is cause. but what point should i give, to this statement?
Point to the bank collapse. it doesn't get much simpler than that.

[InuyashaKnight]

Capitalism caused it plan & simple.

[Stranger Than Paradise]

This stems from the false premise that any government social programs is "socialist".
Of course, people used to say that things like a minimum wage and a 8-hour workday were communist ideas.

Basically, when it is totally obvious that capitalism is a failure, proponents of capitalism baldly lie and try to claim that the failing capitalist practices are somehow 'socialist'. That's because 'free-market' ideology is not a economic theory, it's a religion, so it can never be wrong.

Exactly, Greece actually being Socialist at one point would have to have happened for it to cause their crisis.

[Nolan]

Oh, and, uh, tell her to watch something other than FOX. :thumbup1:

[Sperm-Doll Setsuna]

My teacher was telling us, that the financial problems in greece is a result of socialism. I basically told her that capitalism is cause. but what point should i give, to this statement?

Ask her what socialism is.

You will probably be unable to do anything but burst into hysterical laughter as her Glenn Beckoid explanations can really have no other response.

[AK]

Oh Greece, with its worker ownership of the means of production. Always causing economic problems.

[Red Commissar]

Is the teacher just thinking this because the current ruling party happens to have "socialist" in its name? Or is it the concept of Greece's large public spending and workers getting paid too much (I see this common with people blasting unionized workers here).

At any rate she'd probably be too dense to accept another explanation. And here are people complaining that too many teachers are closeted socialists or liberals.

Most of the blame can fall equally on New Democracy and PASOK- both had periods of government rule in the past decade but largely agreed on key economic measures. The government borrowed too much following their transition to the Euro (Olympics, among other things), and later had a period of rapid and unsustainable growth that created the bubble of a mess, on top of more bad borrowing.

Ultimately this was a matter of the flow of capital being unrestrained and uncontrolled, as it tends to be anywhere. Like Mayakovsky said the failure of the banks shows this enough.

Though like captain says, you should just put a tinfoil hat on as well and blame socialists, freemasons, and lizard people for causing economic issues and raping the holy altar of capitalism.

[Proletarian Ultra]

First, ask her about the colonels. Ask her what happened to foreign debt under them. (I haven't looked it up, but I already know the answer: it exploded.)

Ask her why Greece spends 4.3% of GDP on the military. That's the highest in the EU. That's higher than the US. And ask her how come Greece has a national healthcare system and spends half what we do on healthcare (http://www.angelfire.com/rnb/y/images/oecd_2007_health_gdp_public_private.gif) - and about $500 less than OECD average.

Ask her how tax evasion by the wealthy (http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2011757122_greecetax02.html?syndication=rss) - with the gov't mostly looking the other way - is socialism. Ask her how gov't support of the orthodox church is socialism.

[The Red Next Door]

Is the teacher just thinking this because the current ruling party happens to have "socialist" in its name? Or is it the concept of Greece's large public spending and workers getting paid too much (I see this common with people blasting unionized workers here).

At any rate she'd probably be too dense to accept another explanation. And here are people complaining that too many teachers are closeted socialists or liberals.

Most of the blame can fall equally on New Democracy and PASOK- both had periods of government rule in the past decade but largely agreed on key economic measures. The government borrowed too much following their transition to the Euro (Olympics, among other things), and later had a period of rapid and unsustainable growth that created the bubble of a mess, on top of more bad borrowing.

Ultimately this was a matter of the flow of capital being unrestrained and uncontrolled, as it tends to be anywhere. Like Mayakovsky said the failure of the banks shows this enough.

Though like captain says, you should just put a tinfoil hat on as well and blame socialists, freemasons, and lizard people for causing economic issues and raping the holy altar of capitalism.

Social Democracy in Europe.

[gorillafuck]

Greece isn't a socialist country so there's absolutely no argument that socialism caused it's problems. That's like saying unrest in the USA is because of monarchy.

[Red Commissar]

Social Democracy in Europe.

What do you mean? Did the teacher say social democracy caused the issues in Europe, ergo its socialism?

[Dimentio]

Greece isn't a socialist country so there's absolutely no argument that socialism caused it's problems. That's like saying unrest in the USA is because of monarchy.

Aren't they? :lol:

[The Red Next Door]

What do you mean? Did the teacher say social democracy caused the issues in Europe, ergo its socialism?
she like many others here on the right equate social democracy with socialism.

[Red Commissar]

she like many others here on the right equate social democracy with socialism.

Point out to her that New Democracy had ruled the country from 2004 up to 2009, they were a centre-right party. Majority of the economic issues began to pop up during their government and PASOK's subsequent election at the end of 2009 was because people thought they wouldn't pursue austerity like New Democracy was planning to do.

Ultimately though the root of Greece's problems lay with its excessive borrowing and allowing for an uncontrolled growth in their economy. There's really nothing tying into socialist policy there.