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bie
7th May 2010, 15:14
An interesting piece of information. It is taken from: http://www.uncommonthought.com/mtblog/archives/2009/01/27/left_anticommun_1.php


Left Anticommunism: the unkindest cut


BY MICHAEL PARENTI

Part opportunism, part careerism, part willful denial (or ignorance) of true capitalist and imperial dynamics, and part attachment to the comforts of being within the respectable fold of "permissible" criticism, Left Anticommunism continues to take a huge toll on the American left. In this typically comprehensive and incisive essay, Michael Parenti explores the reasons why the Left anti-communist stance must be seen for what it is: a de facto collaboration with the forces defending the corporate status quo. [This selection is from Parenti's book Blackshirts and Reds: Rational Fascism and the Overthrow of Communism (City Lights, 1997). It is reproduced here by courtesy of the author. ]

LEFT ANTICOMMUNISM

By Michael Parenti

In the United States, for over a hundred years, the ruling interests tirelessly propagated anticommunism among the populace, until it became more like a religious orthodoxy than a political analysis. During the Cold War, the anticommunist ideological framework could transform any data about existing communist societies into hostile evidence. If the Soviets refused to negotiate a point, they were intransigent and belligerent; if they appeared willing to make concessions, this was but a skillful ploy to put us off our guard. By opposing arms limitations, they would have demonstrated their aggressive intent; but when in fact they supported most armament treaties, it was because they were mendacious and manipulative. If the churches in the USSR were empty, this demonstrated that religion was suppressed; but if the churches were full, this meant the people were rejecting the regime's atheistic ideology. If the workers went on strike (as happened on infrequent occasions), this was evidence of their alienation from the collectivist system; if they didn't go on strike, this was because they were intimidated and lacked freedom. A scarcity of consumer goods demonstrated the failure of the economic system; an improvement in consumer supplies meant only that the leaders were attempting to placate a restive population and so maintain a firmer hold over them. If communists in the United States played an important role struggling for the rights of workers, the poor, African-Americans, women, and others, this was only their guileful way of gathering support among disfranchised groups and gaining power for themselves. How one gained power by fighting for the rights of powerless groups was never explained. What we are dealing with is a nonfalsifiable orthodoxy, so assiduously marketed by the ruling interests that it affected people across the entire political spectrum.

Genuflection to Orthodoxy

Many on the U.S. Left have exhibited a Soviet bashing and Red baiting that matches anything on the Right in its enmity and crudity. Listen to Noam Chomsky holding forth about "left intellectuals" who try to "rise to power on the backs of mass popular movements" and "then beat the people into submission. . . . You start off as basically a Leninist who is going to be part of the Red bureaucracy. You see later that power doesn't lie that way, and you very quickly become an ideologist of the right. . . . We're seeing it right now in the [former] Soviet Union. The same guys who were communist thugs two years back, are now running banks and [are] enthusiastic free marketeers and praising Americans" (Z Magazine, 10/95).

Chomsky's imagery is heavily indebted to the same U.S. corporate political culture he so frequently criticizes on other issues. In his mind, the revolution was betrayed by a coterie of "communist thugs" who merely hunger for power rather than wanting the power to end hunger. In fact, the communists did not "very quickly" switch to the Right but struggled in the face of a momentous onslaught to keep Soviet socialism alive for more than seventy years. To be sure, in the Soviet Union's waning days some, like Boris Yeltsin, crossed over to capitalist ranks, but others continued to resist free-market incursions at great cost to themselves, many meeting their deaths during Yeltsin's violent repression of the Russian parliament in 1993.

Some leftists and others fall back on the old stereotype of power-hungry Reds who pursue power for power's sake without regard for actual social goals. If true, one wonders why, in country after country, these Reds side with the poor and powerless often at great risk and sacrifice to themselves, rather than reaping the rewards that come with serving the well-placed.

For decades, many left-leaning writers and speakers in the United States have felt obliged to establish their credibility by indulging in anticommunist and anti-Soviet genuflection, seemingly unable to give a talk or write an article or book review on whatever political subject without injecting some anti-Red sideswipe. The intent was, and still is, to distance themselves from the Marxist-Leninist Left.


Adam Hochschild: Keeping his distance from the "Stalinist Left" and recommending same posture to fellow progressives.

Adam Hochschild, a liberal writer and publisher, warned those on the Left who might be lackadaisical about condemning existing communist societies that they "weaken their credibility" (Guardian, 5/23/84). In other words, to be credible opponents of the cold war, we first had to join in the Cold-War condemnations of communist societies. Ronald Radosh urged that the peace movement purge itself of communists so that it not be accused of being communist (Guardian, 3/16/83). If I understand Radosh: To save ourselves from anticommunist witchhunts, we should ourselves become witchhunters. Purging the Left of communists became a longstanding practice, having injurious effects on various progressive causes. For instance, in 1949 some twelve unions were ousted from the CIO because they had Reds in their leadership. The purge reduced CIO membership by some 1.7 million and seriously weakened its recruitment drives and political clout. In the late 1940s, to avoid being "smeared" as Reds, Americans for Democratic Action (ADA), a supposedly progressive group, became one of the most vocally anticommunist organizations.

The strategy did not work. ADA and others on the Left were still attacked for being communist or soft on communism by those on the Right. Then and now, many on the Left have failed to realize that those who fight for social change on behalf of the less privileged elements of society will be Red-baited by conservative elites whether they are communists or not. For ruling interests, it makes little difference whether their wealth and power is challenged by "communist subversives" or "loyal American liberals." All are lumped together as more or less equally abhorrent.

Even when attacking the Right, the left critics cannot pass up an opportunity to flash their anticommunist credentials. So Mark Green writes in a criticism of President Ronald Reagan that "when presented with a situation that challenges his conservative catechism, like an unyielding Marxist-Leninist, [Reagan] will change not his mind but the facts." While professing a dedication to fighting dogmatism "both of the Right and Left," individuals who perform such de rigueur genuflections reinforce the anticommunist dogma. Red-baiting leftists contributed their share to the climate of hostility that has given U.S. leaders such a free hand in waging hot and cold wars against communist countries and which even today makes a progressive or even liberal agenda difficult to promote.

A prototypic Red-basher who pretended to be on the Left was George Orwell. In the middle of World War II, as the Soviet Union was fighting for its life against the Nazi invaders at Stalingrad, Orwell announced that a "willingness to criticize Russia and Stalin is the test of intellectual honesty. It is the only thing that from a literary intellectual's point of view is really dangerous" (Monthly Review, 5/83). Safely ensconced within a virulently anticommunist society, Orwell (with Orwellian doublethink) characterized the condemnation of communism as a lonely courageous act of defiance. Today, his ideological progeny are still at it, offering themselves as intrepid left critics of the Left, waging a valiant struggle against imaginary Marxist-Leninist-Stalinist hordes.

Sorely lacking within the U.S. Left is any rational evaluation of the Soviet Union, a nation that endured a protracted civil war and a multinational foreign invasion in the very first years of its existence, and that two decades later threw back and destroyed the Nazi beast at enormous cost to itself. In the three decades after the Bolshevik revolution, the Soviets made industrial advances equal to what capitalism took a century to accomplish--while feeding and schooling their children rather than working them fourteen hours a day as capitalist industrialists did and still do in many parts of the world. And the Soviet Union, along with Bulgaria, the German Democratic Republic, and Cuba provided vital assistance to national liberation movements in countries around the world, including Nelson Mandela's African National Congress in South Africa.

Left anticommunists remained studiously unimpressed by the dramatic gains won by masses of previously impoverished people under communism. Some were even scornful of such accomplishments. I recall how in Burlington Vermont, in 1971, the noted anticommunist anarchist, Murray Bookchin, derisively referred to my concern for "the poor little children who got fed under communism" (his words).


Slinging Labels

Those of us who refused to join in the Soviet bashing were branded by left anticommunists as "Soviet apologists" and "Stalinists," even if we disliked Stalin and his autocratic system of rule and believed there were things seriously wrong with existing Soviet society. Our real sin was that unlike many on the Left we refused to uncritically swallow U.S. media propaganda about communist societies. Instead, we maintained that, aside from the well-publicized deficiencies and injustices, there were positive features about existing communist systems that were worth preserving, that improved the lives of hundreds of millions of people in meaningful and humanizing ways. This claim had a decidedly unsettling effect on left anticommunists who themselves could not utter a positive word about any communist society (except possibly Cuba) and could not lend a tolerant or even courteous ear to anyone who did.

Saturated by anticommunist orthodoxy, most U.S. leftists have practiced a left McCarthyism against people who did have something positive to say about existing communism, excluding them from participation in conferences, advisory boards, political endorsements, and left publications. Like conservatives, left anticommunists tolerated nothing less than a blanket condemnation of the Soviet Union as a Stalinist monstrosity and a Leninist moral aberration.

That many U.S. leftists have scant familiarity with Lenin's writings and political work does not prevent them from slinging the "Leninist" label. Noam Chomsky, who is an inexhaustible fount of anticommunist caricatures, offers this comment about Leninism: "Western and also Third World intellectuals were attracted to the Bolshevik counterrevolution [sic] because Leninism is, after all, a doctrine that says that the radical intelligentsia have a right to take state power and to run their countries by force, and that is an idea which is rather appealing to intellectuals." Here Chomsky fashions an image of power-hungry intellectuals to go along with his cartoon image of power-hungry Leninists, villains seeking not the revolutionary means to fight injustice but power for power's sake. When it comes to Red-bashing, some of the best and brightest on the Left sound not much better than the worst on the Right.

At the time of the 1996 terror bombing in Oklahoma City, I heard a radio commentator announce: "Lenin said that the purpose of terror is to terrorize." U.S. media commentators have repeatedly quoted Lenin in that misleading manner. In fact, his statement was disapproving of terrorism. He polemicized against isolated terrorist acts which do nothing but create terror among the populace, invite repression, and isolate the revolutionary movement from the masses. Far from being the totalitarian, tight-circled conspirator, Lenin urged the building of broad coalitions and mass organizations, encompassing people who were at different levels of political development. He advocated whatever diverse means were needed to advance the class struggle, including participation in parliamentary elections and existing trade unions. To be sure, the working class, like any mass group, needed organization and leadership to wage a successful revolutionary struggle, which was the role of a vanguard party, but that did not mean the proletarian revolution could be fought and won by putschists or terrorists.

Lenin constantly dealt with the problem of avoiding the two extremes of liberal bourgeois opportunism and ultra-left adventurism. Yet he himself is repeatedly identified as an ultra-left putschist by mainstream journalists and some on the Left. Whether Lenin's approach to revolution is desirable or even relevant today is a question that warrants critical examination. But a useful evaluation is not likely to come from people who misrepresent his theory and practice.

Left anticommunists find any association with communist organizations to be morally unacceptable because of the "crimes of communism." Yet many of them are themselves associated with the Democratic Party in this country, either as voters or members, seemingly unconcerned about the morally unacceptable political crimes committed by leaders of that organization. Under one or another Democratic administration, 120,000 Japanese Americans were torn from their homes and livelihoods and thrown into detention camps; atomic bombs were dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki with an enormous loss of innocent life; the FBI was given authority to inflitrate political groups; the Smith Act was used to imprison leaders of the Trotskyist Socialist Workers Party and later on leaders of the Communist Party for their political beliefs; detention camps were established to round up political dissidents in the event of a "national emergency"; during the late 1940s and 1950s, eight thousand federal workers were purged from government because of their political associations and views, with thousands more in all walks of life witchhunted out of their careers; the Neutrality Act was used to impose an embargo on the Spanish Republic that worked in favor of Franco's fascist legions; homicidal counterinsurgency programs were initiated in various Third World countries; and the Vietnam War was pursued and escalated. And for the better part of a century, the Congressional leadership of the Democratic Party protected racial segregation and stymied all anti-lynching and fair employment bills. Yet all these crimes, bringing ruination and death to many, have not moved the liberals, the social democrats, and the "democratic socialist" anticommunists to insist repeatedly that we issue blanket condemnations of either the Democratic Party or the political system that produced it, certainly not with the intolerant fervor that has been directed against existing communism.


Pure Socialism vs. Siege Socialism

The upheavals in Eastern Europe did not constitute a defeat for socialism because socialism never existed in those countries, according to some U.S. leftists. They say that the communist states offered nothing more than bureaucratic, one-party "state capitalism" or some such thing. Whether we call the former communist countries "socialist" is a matter of definition. Suffice it to say, they constituted something different from what existed in the profit-driven capitalist world--as the capitalists themselves were not slow to recognize.

First, in communist countries there was less economic inequality than under capitalism. The perks enjoyed by party and government elites were modest by corporate CEO standards in the West, as were their personal incomes and life styles. Soviet leaders like Yuri Andropov and Leonid Brezhnev lived not in lavishly appointed mansions like the White House, but in relatively large apartments in a housing project near the Kremlin set aside for government leaders. They had limousines at their disposal (like most other heads of state) and access to large dachas where they entertained visiting dignitaries. But they had none of the immense personal wealth that most U.S. leaders possess.

The "lavish life" enjoyed by East Germany's party leaders, as widely publicized in the U.S. press, included a $725 yearly allowance in hard currency, and housing in an exclusive settlement on the outskirts of Berlin that sported a sauna, an indoor pool, and a fitness center shared by all the residents. They also could shop in stores that carried Western goods such as bananas, jeans, and Japanese electronics. The U.S. press never pointed out that ordinary East Germans had access to public pools and gyms and could buy jeans and electronics (though usually not of the imported variety). Nor was the "lavish" consumption enjoyed by East German leaders contrasted to the truly opulent life style enjoyed by the Western plutocracy.

Second, in communist countries, productive forces were not organized for capital gain and private enrichment; public ownership of the means of production supplanted private ownership. Individuals could not hire other people and accumulate great personal wealth from their labor. Again, compared to Western standards, differences in earnings and savings among the populace were generally modest. The income spread between highest and lowest earners in the Soviet Union was about five to one. In the United States, the spread in yearly income between the top multibillionaires and the working poor is more like 10,000 to 1.

Third, priority was placed on human services. Though life under communism left a lot to be desired and the services themselves were rarely the best, communist countries did guarantee their citizens some minimal standard of economic survival and security, including guaranteed education, employment, housing, and medical assistance.

Fourth, communist countries did not pursue the capital penetration of other countries. Lacking a profit motive as their motor force and therefore having no need to constantly find new investment opportunities, they did not expropriate the lands, labor, markets, and natural resources of weaker nations, that is, they did not practice economic imperialism. The Soviet Union conducted trade and aid relations on terms that generally were favorable to the Eastern European nations and Mongolia, Cuba, and India.

All of the above were organizing principles for every communist system to one degree or another. None of the above apply to free market countries like Honduras, Guatemala, Thailand, South Korea, Chile, Indonesia, Zaire, Germany, or the United States.

But a real socialism, it is argued, would be controlled by the workers themselves through direct participation instead of being run by Leninists, Stalinists, Castroites, or other ill-willed, power-hungry, bureaucratic, cabals of evil men who betray revolutions. Unfortunately, this "pure socialism" view is ahistorical and nonfalsifiable; it cannot be tested against the actualities of history. It compares an ideal against an imperfect reality, and the reality comes off a poor second. It imagines what socialism would be like in a world far better than this one, where no strong state structure or security force is required, where none of the value produced by workers needs to be expropriated to rebuild society and defend it from invasion and internal sabotage.

The pure socialists' ideological anticipations remain untainted by existing practice. They do not explain how the manifold functions of a revolutionary society would be organized, how external attack and internal sabotage would be thwarted, how bureaucracy would be avoided, scarce resources allocated, policy differences settled, priorities set, and production and distribution conducted. Instead, they offer vague statements about how the workers themselves will directly own and control the means of production and will arrive at their own solutions through creative struggle. No surprise then that the pure socialists support every revolution except the ones that succeed.

The pure socialists had a vision of a new society that would create and be created by new people, a society so transformed in its fundaments as to leave little room for wrongful acts, corruption, and criminal abuses of state power. There would be no bureaucracy or self-interested coteries, no ruthless conflicts or hurtful decisions. When the reality proves different and more difficult, some on the Left proceed to condemn the real thing and announce that they "feel betrayed" by this or that revolution.

The pure socialists see socialism as an ideal that was tarnished by communist venality, duplicity, and power cravings. The pure socialists oppose the Soviet model but offer little evidence to demonstrate that other paths could have been taken, that other models of socialism--not created from one's imagination but developed through actual historical experience--could have taken hold and worked better. Was an open, pluralistic, democratic socialism actually possible at this historic juncture? The historical evidence would suggest it was not. As the political philosopher Carl Shames argued:

How do [the left critics] know that the fundamental problem was the "nature" of the ruling [revolutionary] parties rather than, say, the global concentration of capital that is destroying all independent economies and putting an end to national sovereignty everywhere? And to the extent that it was, where did this "nature" come from? Was this "nature" disembodied, disconnected from the fabric of the society itself, from the social relations impacting on it? . . . Thousands of examples could be found in which the centralization of power was a necessary choice in securing and protecting socialist relations. In my observation [of existing communist societies], the positive of "socialism" and the negative of "bureaucracy, authoritarianism and tyranny" interpenetrated in virtually every sphere of life. (Carl Shames, correspondence to me, 1/15/92.)

The pure socialists regularly blame the Left itself for every defeat it suffers. Their second-guessing is endless. So we hear that revolutionary struggles fail because their leaders wait too long or act too soon, are too timid or too impulsive, too stubborn or too easily swayed. We hear that revolutionary leaders are compromising or adventuristic, bureaucratic or opportunistic, rigidly organized or insufficiently organized, undemocratic or failing to provide strong leadership. But always the leaders fail because they do not put their trust in the "direct actions" of the workers, who apparently would withstand and overcome every adversity if only given the kind of leadership available from the left critic's own groupuscule. Unfortunately, the critics seem unable to apply their own leadership genius to producing a successful revolutionary movement in their own country.

Tony Febbo questioned this blame-the-leadership syndrome of the pure socialists:

It occurs to me that when people as smart, different, dedicated and heroic as Lenin, Mao, Fidel Castro, Daniel Ortega, Ho Chi Minh and Robert Mugabe--and the millions of heroic people who followed and fought with them--all end up more or less in the same place, then something bigger is at work than who made what decision at what meeting. Or even what size houses they went home to after the meeting. . . .

These leaders weren't in a vacuum. They were in a whirlwind. And the suction, the force, the power that was twirling them around has spun and left this globe mangled for more than 900 years. And to blame this or that theory or this or that leader is a simple-minded substitute for the kind of analysis that Marxists [should make]. (Guardian, 11/13/91)

To be sure, the pure socialists are not entirely without specific agendas for building the revolution. After the Sandinistas overthrew the Somoza dictatorship in Nicaragua, an ultra-left group in that country called for direct worker ownership of the factories. The armed workers would take control of production without benefit of managers, state planners, bureaucrats, or a formal military. While undeniably appealing, this worker syndicalism denies the necessities of state power. Under such an arrangement, the Nicaraguan revolution would not have lasted two months against the U.S.-sponsored counterrevolution that savaged the country. It would have been unable to mobilize enough resources to field an army, take security measures, or build and coordinate economic programs and human services on a national scale.

Decentralization vs. Survival

For a people's revolution to survive, it must seize state power and use it to (a) break the stranglehold exercised by the owning class over the society's institutions and resources, and (b) withstand the reactionary counterattack that is sure to come. The internal and external dangers a revolution faces necessitate a centralized state power that is not particularly to anyone's liking, not in Soviet Russia in 1917, nor in Sandinista Nicaragua in 1980.

Engels offers an apposite account of an uprising in Spain in 1872-73 in which anarchists seized power in municipalities across the country. At first, the situation looked promising. The king had abdicated and the bourgeois government could muster but a few thousand ill-trained troops. Yet this ragtag force prevailed because it faced a thoroughly parochialized rebellion. "Each town proclaimed itself as a sovereign canton and set up a revolutionary committee (junta)," Engels writes. "[E]ach town acted on its own, declaring that the important thing was not cooperation with other towns but separation from them, thus precluding any possibility of a combined attack [against bourgeois forces]." It was "the fragmentation and isolation of the revolutionary forces which enabled the government troops to smash one revolt after the other."

Decentralized parochial autonomy is the graveyard of insurgency--which may be one reason why there has never been a successful anarcho-syndicalist revolution. Ideally, it would be a fine thing to have only local, self-directed, worker participation, with minimal bureaucracy, police, and military. This probably would be the development of socialism, were socialism ever allowed to develop unhindered by counterrevolutionary subversion and attack. One might recall how, in 1918-20, fourteen capitalist nations, including the United States, invaded Soviet Russia in a bloody but unsuccessful attempt to overthrow the revolutionary Bolshevik government. The years of foreign invasion and civil war did much to intensify the Bolsheviks' siege psychology with its commitment to lockstep party unity and a repressive security apparatus. Thus, in May 1921, the same Lenin who had encouraged the practice of internal party democracy and struggled against Trotsky in order to give the trade unions a greater measure of autonomy, now called for an end to the Workers' Opposition and other factional groups within the party. "The time has come," he told an enthusiastically concurring Tenth Party Congress, "to put an end to opposition, to put a lid on it: we have had enough opposition." Open disputes and conflicting tendencies within and without the party, the communists concluded, created an appearance of division and weakness that invited attack by formidable foes.

Only a month earlier, in April 1921, Lenin had called for more worker representation on the party's Central Committee. In short, he had become not anti-worker but anti-opposition. Here was a social revolution--like every other--that was not allowed to develop its political and material life in an unhindered way.

By the late 1920s, the Soviets faced the choice of (a) moving in a still more centralized direction with a command economy and forced agrarian collectivization and full-speed industrialization under a commandist, autocratic party leadership, the road taken by Stalin, or (b) moving in a liberalized direction, allowing more political diversity, more autonomy for labor unions and other organizations, more open debate and criticism, greater autonomy among the various Soviet republics, a sector of privately owned small businesses, independent agricultural development by the peasantry, greater emphasis on consumer goods, and less effort given to the kind of capital accumulation needed to build a strong military-industrial base.

The latter course, I believe, would have produced a more comfortable, more humane and serviceable society. Siege socialism would have given way to worker-consumer socialism. The only problem is that the country would have risked being incapable of withstanding the Nazi onslaught. Instead, the Soviet Union embarked upon a rigorous, forced industrialization. This policy has often been mentioned as one of the wrongs perpetrated by Stalin upon his people. It consisted mostly of building, within a decade, an entirely new, huge industrial base east of the Urals in the middle of the barren steppes, the biggest steel complex in Europe, in anticipation of an invasion from the West. "Money was spent like water, men froze, hungered and suffered but the construction went on with a disregard for individuals and a mass heroism seldom paralleled in history."

Stalin's prophecy that the Soviet Union had only ten years to do what the British had done in a century proved correct. When the Nazis invaded in 1941, that same industrial base, safely ensconced thousands of miles from the front, produced the weapons of war that eventually turned the tide. The cost of this survival included 22 million Soviets who perished in the war and immeasurable devastation and suffering, the effects of which would distort Soviet society for decades afterward.

All this is not to say that everything Stalin did was of historical necessity. The exigencies of revolutionary survival did not "make inevitable" the heartless execution of hundreds of Old Bolshevik leaders, the personality cult of a supreme leader who claimed every revolutionary gain as his own achievement, the suppression of party political life through terror, the eventual silencing of debate regarding the pace of industrialization and collectivization, the ideological regulation of all intellectual and cultural life, and the mass deportations of "suspect" nationalities.

The transforming effects of counterrevolutionary attack have been felt in other countries. A Sandinista military officer I met in Vienna in 1986 noted that Nicaraguans were "not a warrior people" but they had to learn to fight because they faced a destructive, U.S.-sponsored mercenary war. She bemoaned the fact that war and embargo forced her country to postpone much of its socio-economic agenda. As with Nicaragua, so with Mozambique, Angola and numerous other countries in which U.S.-financed mercenary forces destroyed farmlands, villages, health centers, and power stations, while killing or starving hundreds of thousands--the revolutionary baby was strangled in its crib or mercilessly bled beyond recognition. This reality ought to earn at least as much recognition as the suppression of dissidents in this or that revolutionary society.


The overthrow of Eastern European and Soviet communist governments was cheered by many left intellectuals. Now democracy would have its day. The people would be free from the yoke of communism and the U.S. Left would be free from the albatross of existing communism, or as left theorist Richard Lichtman put it, "liberated from the incubus of the Soviet Union and the succubus of Communist China."


In fact, the capitalist restoration in Eastern Europe seriously weakened the numerous Third World liberation struggles that had received aid from the Soviet Union and brought a whole new crop of right-wing governments into existence, ones that now worked hand-in-glove with U.S. global counterrevolutionaries around the globe.


In addition, the overthrow of communism gave the green light to the unbridled exploitative impulses of Western corporate interests. No longer needing to convince workers that they live better than their counterparts in Russia, no longer restrained by a competing system, the corporate class is rolling back the many gains that working people have won over the years. Now that the free market, in its meanest form, is emerging triumphant in the East, so will it prevail in the West. "Capitalism with a human face" is being replaced by "capitalism in your face." As Richard Levins put it, "So in the new exuberant aggressiveness of world capitalism we see what communists and their allies had held at bay" (Monthly Review, 9/96).

Having never understood the role that existing communist powers played in tempering the worst impulses of Western capitalism, and having perceived communism as nothing but an unmitigated evil, the left anticommunists did not anticipate the losses that were to come. Some of them still don't get it.

Barry Lyndon
7th May 2010, 15:59
I agree with about 90% of this article wholeheartedly. Probably the best part of it is the way that Parenti exposes how American progressives can't shake the habit of proving to others their 'respectability' by engaging in Red-bashing, and how this has done irreparable damage to the American Left as a whole. Now the right merely needs to accuse liberals of being 'socialist' and large sections of this country will go into fits of hysteria. It is also refreshing that Parenti takes on "pure socialists" who simply dismiss the revolutions in Russia, China, Vietnam, and Cuba in their entirety and basically concede to the capitalists that socialism can never work in practice. One cannot defend everything that happpened in those revolutions, as is the case with any large historical event, but their are plenty of parts of our history that communists can and should defend, the positive gains that communists made in those countries.
Having said that, I think Parenti(in this essay and in 'Blackshirts and Reds') is pretty soft on Stalin. His defamatory attack on George Orwell, calling him a 'red basher who pretended to be on the left', is quite insulting given that Orwell fought in a Trotskyist battalion in Spain against fascism and was himself a socialist. This slander mirrors Stalinist propaganda.

bie
7th May 2010, 16:24
Isn't "antistalinism" a part of exactly the same mechanism as described above? E.g. if one looks through the history of ruling worker's parties in Peoples Democracies in Europe - it can be easily seen that the restoration of capitalism in Eastern Europe was made under the sign of "antistalinism", "fight with stalinist bureaucracy", "fight with overcenralisation" etc. And the result was the complete victory of counterrevolution and millions of people were pushed into a slavery and poverty or forced to emigrate and work as cheap labor. "Antistalinism" had became a banner for the all sort of opportunists and class enemies within the socialist system - that eventually betrayed its people. Now they call themselves "postcommunists" and they are on the liberal positions.

In my opinion "antistalinism" is a tendency that is morally bankrupt. It was a banner for the counterrevolution at some stage. It did its job quite well. What is also important that "antistalinism" sneaked all sorts of revisionist and reactionary ideas into the movement (eg. denial of necessity of collectivization of agriculture, denial of necessity of fight with opportunism etc).

Concerning Orwell - it is well known that he was on the pay-list of British intelligence. He was simply a traitor.

syndicat
7th May 2010, 18:16
Parenti's view could be described as a form of class collaboration. that's because he's churning out apologetics for the dominating and exploiting classes of the socalled "Communist" countries.

Ismail
7th May 2010, 18:40
His defamatory attack on George Orwell, calling him a 'red basher who pretended to be on the left', is quite insulting given that Orwell fought in a Trotskyist battalion in Spain against fascism and was himself a socialist. This slander mirrors Stalinist propaganda.Actually he's completely on the mark there. After Orwell left Spain he stopped considering himself a communist, and by 1949 had been reduced to taking a Shachtmanite position of "Western liberal democracy against Stalinism."

Hence such things as this: http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2003/sep/25/orwells-list-2/

Not to mention Animal Farm is pretty much "Communism in practice results in Stalinism," which is the basic bourgeois narrative.

He was basically a proto-Christopher Hitchens. You can admire the 1930's Orwell, but not so much the 1940's one.

Also FWIW Orwell himself said that when he entered the POUM militias he was unaware as to the politics of all the various groups. As for fighting against fascism in Spain, Willy Brandt, who later became Chancellor of West Germany, fought too.

Nolan
7th May 2010, 19:07
Parenti's view could be described as a form of class collaboration. that's because he's churning out apologetics for the dominating and exploiting classes of the socalled "Communist" countries.

What a stupid analysis. He's defending their systems against bourgeois defamation and the all too willing "leftist" collaborators in imperialism against them. "Class collaboration" is the last thing Parenti is doing, you just don't like him because he doesn't take pot shots at "Stalinism" whenever the opportunity presents itself.

bie
7th May 2010, 19:23
Parenti's view could be described as a form of class collaboration. that's because he's churning out apologetics for the dominating and exploiting classes of the socalled "Communist" countries.
As far as I know it is understood that the the administration/ party cadres in socialist (here called "communist") countries in the socialized, central planned economy DO NOT constitute a social class. They form sort of stratas - groups of influence etc. It is not scientifically justified to talk about industrial cadres/ party elites in terms of a social classes, mainly because the class analysis refers to the relation of possession towards means of production. Neither party elites nor technical cadres were owners of the socialized economy - they could not use it for its private purpose. And the surplus value was used for the socialist - not capitalist accumulation. So it is nonsense to talk about "class collaboration" with party cadres from socialist states - because party cadres/administration were not a class. Compare with white collar workers in capitalism - they are not the same as bourgeoisie.

"Class collaboration" is the last thing Parenti is doing, you just don't like him because he doesn't take pot shots at "Stalinism" whenever the opportunity presents itself.
Agree. "Stalinism" is the negative, meaningless term developed by the bourgeoisie in order to discredit whole worker's movement and to impose on the working class and other progressive strata - an idea that there is no alternative to the capitalist exploitation and destruction. Even when "antistalinist" leftist reject "stalinism" he will be attacked by the bourgeoisie until his positions become entirely harmless and opportunistic.

Nolan
7th May 2010, 19:28
I'm pretty sure Trotsky made it up. But it serves that purpose, yes. Even the corporate media often refers to the USSR as "Stalinist."

Barry Lyndon
7th May 2010, 20:32
Should have known better then to get into a debate with people who have orgasms over Enver Hoxha.

This is a version of inverted McCarthyism, screaming that anybody who criticizes beloved Stalin is a tool of the capitalists, in the same hysterical tone as the Moscow Trials.
I wrote the full articulation in another thread as to why, as a Marxist, I despise Stalin and don't think any communist should waste their time defending him and his disastrous counter-revolutionary policies. I criticize Trotskyists too, if that's any consolation:

"It's certainly true that capitalist and fascist propaganda exaggerate many of Stalin's crimes or flat out fabricate them, and continue to do so to this day in order to discredit socialism. I remember watching a History Channel program on Stalin, and out of the blue it was claimed that Stalin 'killed more Jews then Hitler'. As anti-Stalin as I am, I was like 'wait a minute....'. Of course, there was no evidence at all for this, we were just supposed to accept that assertion as fact.

Having said that, I have read enough scholarship on the topic and know enough Russians and Ukrainians to get a sense that it is simply not possible that Stalin is just some misunderstood benevolent leader.

The 1932-33 famine in the Ukraine may not have been originally started by Stalin, but it was definitely exploited and used by him to beat recalcitrant peasants into submission. Like Trotsky, I do not think collectivization itself was wrong, but I oppose the brutal and idiotic way that Stalin and his henchmen went about it. Lenin, as his 'hanging order' demonstrates, was also ruthless with his dealings with peasants at times, but he specifically targeted the kulaks who were collaborating with the White Army and terrorizing the landless peasants. Stalin, by contrast, imposed collective punishment on every man, woman and child that refused to go along with his "mad, gambling"(to quote Trotsky) collectivization plans. Journalists like Gareth Jones risked their lives to travel to the Ukraine and exposed that at the height of the famine the OGPU were being employed to block off train stations so that peasants could not escape the famine-stricken areas(And this was reported by newswire BEFORE the story was picked up by the Hearst Press). As a result, millions died. Even Stalinists don't deny this, but they try to claim that 'only' 3.5 million died as opposed to the claims of 5 or 7 or even 10 million. If only Western Stalinists valued Ukranian or Russian lives as much as they valued American ones. Although, I must add, I also fault many Trotskyists for focusing almost exclusively on the Moscow Trials as Exhibit A of Stalin's monstrosity, and the fact that they are able to cite all the high-ranking Bolsheviks that Stalin purged by name. It seems to me more then a tad bit elitist that they seem to think that ranks higher in the catalogue of Stalin's crimes then the mass murder of millions of powerless, nameless peasants. "

and

"I really have no patience for Stalin apologists whatsoever. In my view, it is nothing more then a left-wing version of Holocaust denial. This aversion to admitting unpleasant facts goes back decades, one of the best examples being how the Marxist intellectual Jean-Paul Sartre said that even if the accounts of gulags in Russia were true, they should be repressed because the knowledge of them would demoralize the working class. Pointing out some positive gains in terms of infrastructure and such during Stalin's reign is evasive and intellectually dishonest- one might as well point out that Hitler ended unemployment and built the Autobahn. Even the success in building up the Soviet Union's industrial base was largely based on Leon Trotsky's plans, which Stalin took the credit for himself. Other things like the very successful literacy campaign were simply a continuation of Lenin's policies.
But for a certian breed of communist, all this can be excused because Stalin 'defeated the Nazis'. Never mind that Stalin paved the way for the Nazis rise to power by refusing to allow the German Communists to combine with the Social Democrats. Never mind his stunning betrayal of the Trotskyists and anarchists in Spain during the May Days massacres which opened the gates of Madrid to Franco. Never mind that the USSR almost lost the war because Stalin decapitated nearly the entire leadership of the Red Army in the 1930's(I knew a Russian graduate student at my college whose grandfather, a general, was saved from a purge because he was relocated to another post at the last minute). The glory for the Great Patriotic War victory over fascism belongs to the millions of Soviet workers, soldiers, and partisans who fought with incredible courage and heroism against the Nazi war machine and crushed it, at the cost of 26 million lives-an almost unbelievable sacrifice(In Leningrad alone, about a million people died in the Nazi siege of the city, half of its entire population-imagine half of Chicago or New York City dead). Any Marxist recognizes them as the true heroes and not the self-serving tyrant who coasted on their backs. "

Nolan
7th May 2010, 20:58
Oh boy, here we go with the Holodomor retro-conspiracy theories.

I don't think you're consciously tools of the capitalists, but you use the same arguments, masturbate over horror stories, and serve to undermine existing revolutions by dividing the movement when the thing it needs most is unity. Thus, you play a reactionary role.

And you're attacking strawmen, really. I have plenty of criticisms of Stalin. He was paranoid (and most of the time justly so), went too far in some things, and on top of that didn't even kill those who would turn out to be the real problem. But I don't think anyone upholds him as the "ideal" leader. We simply recognize the amazing things that Stalin led the working class to accomplish.

bie
7th May 2010, 21:23
I wrote the full articulation in another thread as to why, as a Marxist, I despise Stalin and don't think any communist should waste their time defending him and his disastrous counter-revolutionary policies. I criticize Trotskyists too, if that's any consolation:

Basically, what is written above is a mixture of myths, truths, semi-truths, anticommunist lies etc. - all put together under the one label. And this is all covered in rather anticommunist rhetorics. All of above points can be refuted and explained in terms other than the product of the tyranny or consistent political line. Obviously it requires much more space - it is possible to refute every single point you have mentioned. Of course I am far away from idealization of any leader or historical period, but your arguments are just a selection of popular "horror stories" invented by the need of the Cold War (or antibolshevism - before). I recommend more "holistic" approach to Stalin's period, because apart from difficulties, there were major achievements of working class and other strata that you havn't mentioned - that actually proved that SOCIALISM/COMMUNISM is an alternative to the capitalist exploitation and slavery.

Barry Lyndon
7th May 2010, 22:02
Basically, what is written above is a mixture of myths, truths, semi-truths, anticommunist lies etc. - all put together under the one label. And this is all covered in rather anticommunist rhetorics. All of above points can be refuted and explained in terms other than the product of the tyranny or consistent political line. Obviously it requires much more space - it is possible to refute every single point you have mentioned. Of course I am far away from idealization of any leader or historical period, but your arguments are just a selection of popular "horror stories" invented by the need of the Cold War (or antibolshevism - before). I recommend more "holistic" approach to Stalin's period, because apart from difficulties, there were major achievements of working class and other strata that you havn't mentioned - that actually proved that SOCIALISM/COMMUNISM is an alternative to the capitalist exploitation and slavery.

What are you talking about? I specifically named and praised several of the Soviet Union's achievements, all I said is that they were in spite of, not because of Stalin. And what of Gareth Jones? Was he lying, or did what he observe happen or not? Was Trotsky an anti-communist too? That must be why he led the Red Army and defeated the Whites and saved the Soviet state from destruction, isn't it? That must be why he was churning out 'Cold War propganda' in the 1930's before the Cold War even started.....
Attacking Stalin is not anti-communism. Stalin does not equal communism, as much as your cult-worhsipping mind may believe. Get over it. The reason I call people like you 'Stalinists' is because defending and excusing everything that Stalin did is the center of you politics.

blake 3:17
7th May 2010, 22:03
I was confused by the whole thing then saw it is from a book from the mid 90s. Makes more sense now.

Most America Left anti-communism has been social democratic, occasionally with anarchist or Trotskyist tints to them, but generally reformist. These folks have had a stronger ideological/intellectual voice in the absence of a reformist workers party in the US.

There's been some good scholarship around American Communism and anti-Communism. The single best book I'd recommend is Ellen Schrecker's Many Are The Crimes. Folks concerned about this historically would want to look at the Smith Act and the Taft-Hartley Act. These legal mechanisms have been crucial to discrediting an American Left of any size or depth.

Ismail
7th May 2010, 22:16
Should have known better then to get into a debate with people who have orgasms over Enver Hoxha.As opposed to what? You? Who upholds the fascist-like USSR of the 60's, 70's and 80's? The state which launched brutal occupations of Czechoslovakia and Afghanistan? The state which turned the Warsaw Pact states into neo-colonies? The state which, along with the USA, waged a 35-year inter-imperialist conflict that brought misery to most of the world through the usage of proxy wars, coercions, and coups? The state which openly proclaimed that the dictatorship of the proletariat was "unnecessary"? The state which claimed it would achieve communism by 1980?

And then you support the right-wing Mao Zedong, who became a useful idiot of US imperialism.


I criticize Trotskyists too, if that's any consolation:It isn't, because you still defend the policies of the rightist Khrushchev, the fascist-like Brezhnev, and the social-democratic Gorbachev. I'd (reluctantly) take Trotsky over those three goons. At least Trotsky maintained his principles, unlike you and your "Pan-Socialist" line.

Honggweilo
7th May 2010, 22:37
It isn't, because you still defend the policies of the rightist Khrushchev, the fascist-like Brezhnev, and the social-democratic Gorbachev. I'd (reluctantly) take Trotsky over those three goons. At least Trotsky maintained his principles, unlike you and your "Pan-Socialist" line.


And then you support the right-wing Mao Zedong, who became a useful idiot of US imperialism.
Is that your new stop-word for everything? Pan-socialist? NO U!

Dispite Barry Lydons obvious easy-road liberal criticisms toward Stalin, your positions are also getting more sectrarian every minute...

The only decent non-sectarian parties with Hoxhaists backgrounds (and with any significance or potential) in existance today is the Communist Party of Albania and the PCdoB of Brazil.

Its so fucking easy to critize someone who tries to take an eclectic position in defending some positive aspects of the post-1956 USSR and the condem them to waste basket labeled "ZOMG BREZNEVITE FASCISTZZ AND LMAOISTS RIGHTIST GOONS", and other shitty strawman comparing to fascism and social-democracy (ironically these people suffer a from schizofrenia when it comes to defending Stalin or Hoxha, when they rebuke the same strawmen they use against post-1956 socialism. Even though i agree with upholding Stalin and Hoxha against liberal falsification)
Parenti hits the nail right on the spot when it comes to this indirect left anti-communist line of some hoxhaists, especially the self-important intarwebz phenomenon that is the APL. This self invoked delusion is a direct product of social alienation, especially when you chant stuff like "ALL PARTIES STEP ASIDE, THE APL IS HERE!"

Ismail
7th May 2010, 22:42
Is that your new stop-word for everything? Pan-socialist?Why yes it is, because it represents a pseudo-communist line which ignores the fact that the communist movement had been fighting against a revisionist and state-capitalist regime, and that it had been against the Soviet Union and Maoist China. It falsely portrays Cuba and the DPRK as socialist states, portrays China as essentially a workers state, etc.


Parenti hits the nail right on the spot when it comes to this crypto-trot line of some hoxhaists,Parenti also defends the Great-Serb chauvinist Milošević and the Chinese state. He doesn't have my sympathy.

Lenin II
7th May 2010, 22:47
Is that your new stop-word for everything? Pan-socialist?

Parenti hits the nail right on the spot when it comes to this crypto-trot line of some hoxhaists, especially the self-important internet phenomenon that is the APL.

You know nothing. You hear me? Nothing. Do not pretend that you do.

The APL is not "crypto-Trot," is it Marxist-Leninist and anti-revisionist.

Anti-revisionism means being against phony Marxism. Revisionism has led to literally millions of deaths in the former USSR and other socialist states from starvation, lack of medical care, poverty, sex trafficking and crime.

This is because revisionism leads to capitalism, whereas Marxism-Leninism has always been successful.

As such, the question of revisionism cannot be a simple one. Had it not been for revisionism, we could be living in a socialist world.

Anti-revisionism has a solid political line with the facts to back it up. All you have is to compare the most hardline anti-Trots (APL) to Trots.

Honggweilo
7th May 2010, 23:15
You know nothing. You hear me? Nothing. Do not pretend that you do.

The APL is not "crypto-Trot," is it Marxist-Leninist and anti-revisionist.

Anti-revisionism means being against phony Marxism. Revisionism has led to literally millions of deaths in the former USSR and other socialist states from starvation, lack of medical care, poverty, sex trafficking and crime.

This is because revisionism leads to capitalism, whereas Marxism-Leninism has always been successful.

As such, the question of revisionism cannot be a simple one. Had it not been for revisionism, we could be living in a socialist world.

Anti-revisionism has a solid political line with the facts to back it up. All you have is to compare the most hardline anti-Trots (APL) to Trots.

Im usually very civil and polite, but i'm kinda in nihilistic mood today :rolleyes:



Said the ex-trot who's entire ideological education happend purely through teh intarwebz, and since then switched positions numerous times depending on which internet tutor was willing to spend time on him, eventually ending up with a megalomanic organisation which pretends to be "an internet tough guy party, having sections all over the US" but meanwhile in the real world consists of people ranting on the intarwebz and on blogs, just like for example; "The Workers Party in America"

I might be the arrogant asshole right now, but not without good reason. I'm getting a bit sick of these keyboard warriors (from all sides) with their holistic conclusions and prophecies about every shit and giggle out there, when none of their analyses are linked to actual everyday class-struggle. Communism is not a blueprint but an ideology formed and continually updated by real life class-struggle against everchanging capital. historic analyses arent worth jack shit if you cant learn from them place them in a modern day context and actually use them. They are useless when you endlessy circlejerk on the failures of every shortcomming of the left due to reductionists analyses like "lol social-imperialism, lol revisionism" without actually striving to pose an alternative due to your rigid worldview, which gives you an excuse to evade any activity in mass movements (or activity at all).

Lenin II
7th May 2010, 23:27
Said the ex-trot who's entire ideological education happend purely through teh intarwebz,

Personal attack. I suppose you were pushed through your mother’s birth canal waving the Manifesto.


It's nice to know you care enough to follow my exploits.



and since then switched positions numerous times depending on which internet tutor was willing to spend time on him,

You know nothing. You do not know who I am, nor what I do. I have never had a tutor, I have been responsible for my own political education in the real world. Most of my education happened in real life and was merely reflected on the internet. Even if it was purely on the web, I fail to see why this is wrong. Educational materials should be freely available to the public and the internet is a tool for that. However, it was meeting true Marxist-Leninists and working with them for years that brought me to change.


eventually ending up with a megalomanic organisation which pretends to be "an internet tough guy party, having sections all over the US"

If wanting to spread socialism, and not revisionism or capitalism, to the United States of America is megalomaniacal, then so be it. The quotation marks are your own invention.


but meanwhile in the real world consists of people ranting on the intarwebz and on blogs, just like for example; "The Workers Party in America"

I do not know or care about this supposed organization of which you speak.


I might be the arrogant asshole right now, but not without good reason.

Mhm, right.


I'm getting a bit sick of these keyboard warriors (from all sides) with their holistic conclusions and prophecies about every shit and giggle out there, when none of their analyses are linked to actual everyday class-struggle.

Whether or not millions of people lived under socialism or not in certain countries is inseparably linked with every day class struggle. The model of socialism we seek in this country will determine whether we have socialism or capitalism, whether socialism lives or dies in the United States.


historic analyses arent worth jack shit if you cant learn from them place them in a modern day context and actually use them.

We cannot pretend that the Russian, Albanian and Chinese revolutions never happened.


They are useless when you endlessy circlejerk on the failures of every shortcomming of the left due to reductionists analyses like "lol social-imperialism, lol revisionism" without actually striving to pose an alternative due to your rigid worldview,

Straw man.


which gives you an excuse to evade any activity in mass movements (or activity at all).

Again, you know nothing.

Honggweilo
7th May 2010, 23:45
wow, way to not actually adress my point


You know nothing. You do not know who I am, nor what I do. I have never had a tutor, I have been responsible for my own political education in the real world. Most of my education happened in real life and was merely reflected on the internet. Even if it was purely on the web, I fail to see why this is wrong. Educational materials should be freely available to the public and the internet is a tool for that. However, it was meeting true Marxist-Leninists and working with them for years that brought me to change.Fair enough old chap, i apperantly know nothing. So tell me, what do you do in the "real world" benefiting a genuine socialist transformation in the long run. Educate me :)


If wanting to spread socialism, and not revisionism or capitalism, to the United States of America is megalomaniacal, then so be it. The quotation marks are your own invention. As do i, but apperantly every existing struggle in the world today is doomed to be reduced to "revisionism" in your eyes. And about the quotation marks.. again, educate me. The burden of proof still lies on the APL (except for PraireFire who i know is active in some ways, but also secluded from you guys concidering the distance)


I do not know or care about this supposed organization of which you speak.
I dont blame you


Whether or not millions of people lived under socialism or not in certain countries is inseparably linked with every day class struggle. The model of socialism we seek in this country will determine whether we have socialism or capitalism, whether socialism lives or dies in the United States. And how are you contributing to this my i ask?


We cannot pretend that the Russian, Albanian and Chinese revolutions never happened. Oh yes, ofcourse. I'm one of those types that wants to ignore every practical socialism that ever existed in history.. right after Ismail blamed us for supporting "too much and considering too much in history socialist"


Straw man.Pot, kettle


Again, you know nothing. I heard you the first two times, and you're blaming me for ad-hominems?

:lol:

Sir Comradical
8th May 2010, 00:02
This is dead on point.

"The pure socialists' ideological anticipations remain untainted by existing practice. They do not explain how the manifold functions of a revolutionary society would be organized, how external attack and internal sabotage would be thwarted, how bureaucracy would be avoided, scarce resources allocated, policy differences settled, priorities set, and production and distribution conducted. Instead, they offer vague statements about how the workers themselves will directly own and control the means of production and will arrive at their own solutions through creative struggle. No surprise then that the pure socialists support every revolution except the ones that succeed."

QFT!

Lenin II
8th May 2010, 00:08
wow, way to not actually adress my point I do not reply because your insults are irrelevant. You offer petty trolling and no political struggle at all. Somehow you called the APL Trotskyite because you believe you already know that the USSR was never a monopoly capitalist state during the Brezhnev era, even though there are many Marxist books on this subject. This is nonsense, of course, but no one can stop you from believing it, and I most certainly will not try. Ismail has covered this in many other threads that you have unhindered access to.


Fair enough old chap, i apperantly know nothing. So tell me, what do you do in the "real world" benefiting a genuine socialist transformation in the long run. Educate me

And how are you contributing to this my i ask? No, I will not. My work is a private security matter and I do not care to discuss it with outsiders. You are free to claim that I do nothing all day if you wish, but your opinion does not affect my political work in any way, shape or form. Ergo, there is no benefit to breaching security by telling you. Anything I managed to show you would doubtlessly be dismissed or downplayed anyway.


As do i, but apperantly every existing struggle in the world today is doomed to be reduced to "revisionism" in your eyes.
It is not my fault that they are.



And about the quotation marks.. again, educate me. You inappropriately put quotation marks around something no one said. Quotation marks should only be used when being sarcastic or quoting from someone. Due to the context I do not believe you were doing either.


The burden of proof still lies on the APL (except for PraireFire who i know is active in some ways, but also secluded from you guys concidering the distance) Prairie Fire has given her active endorsement to the APL, as have many other non-revisionist groups such as Revolutionary Democracy and the ICMLPO.


Oh yes, ofcourse. I'm one of those types that wants to ignore every practical socialism that ever existed in history.. right after Ismail blamed us for supporting "too much and considering too much in history socialist" You want to ignore the demarcations of theory that were laid out in history by ignoring those revolutions and whether or not they produced socialist production relations in those countries. Your line boils down to wanting a liberal union between all factions of socialism without regard to the correctness of theory. It would be akin to someone saying that the split between Stalin and Trotsky was “an ultra-left error,” rather than a manifestation of class struggle.


Trotsky did in fact conspire with the Germans and Japanese, and did lie to the Dewey Commission. It was Stalin that was correct and not Trotsky. Therefore, to speak of Trotskyism as communism is ludicrous.


I heard you the first two times, and your blaming me for ad-hominems?

Pointing out someone was an ex-Trot years ago is quite odd, as well as claiming you know the origins of the person’s political education. I encourage you in these efforts, since it exposes you as utterly bankrupt.

Honggweilo
8th May 2010, 00:33
I do not reply because your insults are irrelevant. You offer petty trolling and no political struggle at all. Somehow you called the APL Trotskyite because you believe you already know that the USSR was never a monopoly capitalist state during the Brezhnev era, even though there are many Marxist books on this subject. This is nonsense, of course, but no one can stop you from believing it, and I most certainly will not try. Ismail has covered this in many other threads that you have unhindered access to. I said crypto-trot in another sence, not its ideology, but its tactics (have you even read the article this thread is about?). Like all infantile ultra-leftism, it attacks the left more then it attacks the actual capitalist hegemony, hence only stirring up shit in the workers movement. Turning petty disfuctions into major conflicts has only helped the ruling class, thats why real-politik actions in the past have actively supported and infiltraded sectarian maoists and hoxhaist movements (i.e Partido Roja in Venezuela and the MLCN in the Netherlands) as well stimulating communist parties towards reformism (PCF, PCI). Neither parenti or i deny the major disfuctions of krustevite revisionism and static chauvinistic breznevism in the USSR, but thats not an excuse to cut out al nuances in a analysis of those periods.


No, I will not. My work is a private security matter and I do not care to discuss it with outsiders. You are free to claim that I do nothing all day if you wish, but your opinion does not affect my political work in any way, shape or form. Ergo, there is no benefit to breaching security by telling you. Anything I managed to show you would doubtlessly be dismissed or downplayed anyway.You thinks so? if you can prove that you are actually contributing, i might not be so judgemental. My percieved arrogance is only a direct reaction to your smug additude to everyone else on the left and how they are apperantly failing misserably at everything. Its only logical for me to ask if you are working to prove an alternative in practice. I might actually apologize if you did, but not that you would care anyway.



It is not my fault that they are.Well it is year fault since its your definition :lol:


Prairie Fire has given her active endorsement to the APL, as have many other non-revisionist groups such as Revolutionary Democracy and the ICMLPO.i really dont have a high hat of the ICMLPO-U&S (i guess you are refering to them, since the ICMPLO is maoist, and actually has great parties as the Phillipino CP). They are full of internet blog parties with big talk and no action, like the one in Greece, which rants about everything and everyone, and is nowhere to be seen in a revolutionary situation like this.


You inappropriately put quotation marks around something no one said. Quotation marks should only be used when being sarcastic or quoting from someone. Due to the context I do not believe you were doing either. Quotation marks also imply sarcasm and hyperbolism


Therefore, to speak of Trotskyism as communism is ludicrousand where did i say trotsky was a "genuine communist"? i was refering to the defence of socialist states.


Pointing out someone was an ex-Trot years ago is quite odd, as well as claiming you know the origins of the person’s political education. I encourage you in these efforts, since it exposes you as utterly bankrupt. Cut out the plural, it was a year ago. I was merely pointing out that you are very easilly persuaded in a short period of time and not very coherent. And dear sir, im very impressed by your fallacy to insult my theoretical level just because i disagree with your policy, i stand in awe to the size of your e-penis

syndicat
8th May 2010, 01:10
As far as I know it is understood that the the administration/ party cadres in socialist (here called "communist") countries in the socialized, central planned economy DO NOT constitute a social class. They form sort of stratas - groups of influence etc. It is not scientifically justified to talk about industrial cadres/ party elites in terms of a social classes, mainly because the class analysis refers to the relation of possession towards means of production. Neither party elites nor technical cadres were owners of the socialized economy - they could not use it for its private purpose. And the surplus value was used for the socialist - not capitalist accumulation. So it is nonsense to talk about "class collaboration" with party cadres from socialist states - because party cadres/administration were not a class. Compare with white collar workers in capitalism - they are not the same as bourgeoisie.


This is the usual sort of apologetics. Class is about power over others in social production. "Ownership" is a merely legal category, part of the "superstructure" for Marx. It does differentiate certain powers that are characteristic of capitalist ownership. But there is no reason to think this is the only form of domination to which workers are subject in social production. We can say that there are two bases of class power over workers in advanced capitalism:

1. relative monopoly of ownership over means of production and business assets.

2. relative monopoly over decision-making authority and expertise that pertains to decision-making.

The class based on 2 is the bureaucratic class. Within corporate capitalism this class is subordinate to the dominante capitalists, who control the top level strategic planning for firms and for the dominant policies. This class includes middle managers, corporate lawyers, judges, top accountants and financial officers, industrial engineers, doctors, tenured university professors at PhD granting institutions, top execs of nonprofits, and at its lowest level includes foremen and cops.

this class in the USA also does not derive its power from owning the means of production or the companies. many of them are in the state, but the dominant fraction is the corporate sector.

in the so-called "Communist" countries this class is the ruling class because they are not subject to a class of private wealth accumulators. this is why these countries are systems where the mode of production is a bureaucratic regime.

Clearly workers are not in power in the "Communist" countries, do not control or self-manage their own work. Hence they are subordinate to a dominating class, and are thus exploited. They are exploited because the top dogs gain special privileges, perks, higher wages, and because the working class is controlled and subordinated, has human costs dumped on them, is not the equals of the bureaucratic class.

bie
8th May 2010, 17:38
And what of Gareth Jones? Was he lying, or did what he observe happen or not?

Who was Gareth Jones - here is a short official description.


In the following year 1931, he was offered employment in New York by Dr. Ivy Lee, Public Relations adviser to organizations such as the Rockefeller Institute, the Chrysler foundation and Standard Oil to research a book on the Soviet Union. ((http://www.garethjones.org/overview/mainoverview.htm))

He was a PR man for a large oils companies. I think it does not require any comments.


Journalists like Gareth Jones risked their lives to travel to the Ukraine and exposed that at the height of the famine...

Again.. How he "risked his life" is well known..


In the summer of 1931 he accompanied Jack Heinz II to the Soviet Union (fortified with food from the Heinz organization) when at the end of their tour they visited Ukraine. Gareth wrote a comprehensive diary of this visit and Jack Heinz was to publish a book anonymously entitled Experiences in Russia 1931. A Diary, which includes probably the first recorded (seven) references to the word 'starve' or 'starving' of the Soviet peasants as a result of Collectivization. (http://www.garethjones.org/overview/mainoverview.htm)

Who else "risked his life" to "show to the Free Western World" horrors of stalinist dictatorship?


Henry John Heinz II, best known as Jack Heinz, (1908–1987) was an American business executive and CEO of the H. J. Heinz Company based in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, USA.

He was the grandson and namesake of the company founder, Henry J. Heinz, and father of United States Senator John Heinz. His second wife, Drue Heinz, is a noted philanthropist, especially of the literary arts, and founder of the Drue Heinz Literature Prize. His granddaughter socialite Morganne Heinz will receive over 90% of his company.
(from: Wikipedia).

I cannot really understand how they "risk their lives". I am not telling that all they wrote were lies, but it is good to know who they were working for, and - that this was the reaction of American businessmen, who you cannot expect them to be Soviet-friendly.


Who upholds the fascist-like USSR of the 60's, 70's and 80's? The state which launched brutal occupations of Czechoslovakia and Afghanistan? The state which turned the Warsaw Pact states into neo-colonies? The state which, along with the USA, waged a 35-year inter-imperialist conflict that brought misery to most of the world through the usage of proxy wars, coercions, and coups? The state which openly proclaimed that the dictatorship of the proletariat was "unnecessary"? The state which claimed it would achieve communism by 1980?
This is really sectarian...:rolleyes:

bie
8th May 2010, 18:11
The class based on 2 is the bureaucratic class. Within corporate capitalism this class is subordinate to the dominante capitalists, who control the top level strategic planning for firms and for the dominant policies. This class includes middle managers, corporate lawyers, judges, top accountants and financial officers, industrial engineers, doctors, tenured university professors at PhD granting institutions, top execs of nonprofits, and at its lowest level includes foremen and cops.
Disagree. White collar workers, technical staff, office workers etc do not constitute a separate social class. The "power" they exhibit on other workers - originates from the complexity of the production itself - not from their privileged position. Obviously the complexity of modern means of production requires coordination and management and you will have this professions in all economical systems - capitalism, socialism, communism, anarchism etc. Basically their work is also sold as the commodity, that differentiate them from the capitalist class (that lives from the expropriation).

So - criticism of socialist ("communist") states based on the existence of the "bureaucracy" is a nonsense. In every industry and every socio-economical formation there must be a "bureaucracy" - technical staff, engineers, accountants, managers, supervisors etc. It is derived from the complexity of technological processes and necessity of its coordination!


in the so-called "Communist" countries this class is the ruling class because they are not subject to a class of private wealth accumulators. this is why these countries are systems where the mode of production is a bureaucratic regime.
No! There were not a "ruling class". In socialist states (eg. Peoples Democracies) power was shared between various classes and social strata! Technical personnel have significant political representation, but also manual workers, humanist intelligentsia etc.

Hence they are subordinate to a dominating class, and are thus exploited. They are exploited because the top dogs gain special privileges, perks, higher wages, and because the working class is controlled and subordinated, has human costs dumped on them, is not the equals of the bureaucratic class.
Again you are wrong. Exploitation originates from the trade of the labor as the commodity on the labor market. In socialist states there was no labor market at all - work was organized on different principles. You had high wages, short working week, easy and general access to high level public services etc. Life was good under socialism! :)

syndicat
8th May 2010, 18:26
Disagree. White collar workers, technical staff, office workers etc do not constitute a separate social class. The "power" they exhibit on other workers - originates from the complexity of the production itself - not from their privileged position. Obviously the complexity of modern means of production requires coordination and management and you will have this professions in all economical systems - capitalism, socialism, communism, anarchism etc. Basically their work is also sold as the commodity, that differentiate them from the capitalist class (that lives from the expropriation).


I wasn't talking about "white collar workers, technical staff, office workers." Go back and re-read what I said. I was talking about people who power over other workers. This includes managers, industrial engineers (who design work flows and jobs), top engineers who work with management (in software firms i've worked in they were called something like "System Architect"); judges who issue all sorts of orders such as injunctions in strikes; corporate lawyers who defend the interests of the bosses, help break strikes; medical doctors who run practices, have employees, give orders to direct various subordinates.

I wasn't talking about "office workers" or "technical staff", most of whom do not have significant power over others.

Class is about having power over others in social production. Even under corporate capitalism most of the bosses workers face to day aren't the owners.

bie
8th May 2010, 19:24
I was talking about people who power over other workers. This includes managers, industrial engineers (who design work flows and jobs), top engineers who work with management (in software firms i've worked in they were called something like "System Architect"); judges who issue all sorts of orders such as injunctions in strikes; corporate lawyers who defend the interests of the bosses, help break strikes; medical doctors who run practices, have employees, give orders to direct various subordinates.
Sure, but lets don't mix up ordinary petit bourgeoisie who buys the labor on the market (eg. private doctors, some lawyers, traders etc.) for individual profit - with groups of professionals who simply serves bourgeoisie (eg. managers, lawyers, police, army officers etc.). In that second case - they exert the power, true - but they do not exert the power for its own sake - but in the interest of theirs masters. That's why they do not constitute a separate class, but are the tool in the hands of the class of capitalists. Capitalist class exert power over them AND their workers.


Class is about having power over others in social production. Even under corporate capitalism most of the bosses workers face to day aren't the owners.
True, but you may think of those bosses as tools of the real power possessors - property owners. They are the sort of extension of their power.

In socialism, on the other hand the exertion of power was more complex. As the economy was centrally planned, the group of economists (eg. in GOSPLAN) made a list of production priorities and production quotas. It was passed to the industrial units, which in various periods/geographical areas possessed different degree of autonomy (that may include some corrections). On the political level, the power over production was exerted by the ruling party, which also varied in its composition in time and space. In the most of cases the leading class in ruling party was working class, but especially towards the late periods, the petit-bourgeoisie and other groups and strata gained influence. This system was called the dictatorship of proletaryat. The working class exerted its power over social production via a political party (on the central level) and various groups and associations (soviets, councils etc on the local level). But of course political party itself became a battleground for the class struggle between different classes and social strata. It is not important that working class do not participate entirely in the politics and some parts were passive of even reactionary . What is important is that they were given all the opportunities - i.e. legal instruments to do so and that workers were encouraged to take part in self-management of the socialist economy via political mechanisms of socialist organization (eg. via workers party).

On the factory level, on the other hand - high administration staff (director, chief accountant etc) had no larger power over production process than it was necessary by the complexity of an industry. It was subjected to a control from a side of workers from below and above. Of course this system didn't work ideally (there were always some abuses etc.) - but we don't live in ideal world. The most important was that it worked quite well and efficient. This is, of course simplification, various models had different degrees of autonomy, powers of institutions etc, but the main model was based on the principles described above. What is also important, that profit - even when existed in socialist economy - was not expropriated by private individuals, but is was spend for satisfaction of social needs, according to the economic plan. And the working class had (theoretically and practically) full control over the priorities of the plan via participation in workers parties.

As the example I can say that my grandfather was a chief accountant in the large industry (2nd most important function) and for the whole life didn't earn enough to get himself a car. His salary wasn't much higher then a salary of a manual worker.

Ravachol
10th May 2010, 17:03
Sure, but lets don't mix up ordinary petit bourgeoisie who buys the labor on the market (eg. private doctors, some lawyers, traders etc.) for individual profit - with groups of professionals who simply serves bourgeoisie (eg. managers, lawyers, police, army officers etc.). In that second case - they exert the power, true - but they do not exert the power for its own sake - but in the interest of theirs masters.


That does not change the fact that their material conditions are determined by this role as an extension of Capital's logic and functioning. What the produce is the reproduction of the power relation that is the foundation of class society, their labor consists of maintaining and streamlining class society's functioning. Hence, they constitute a very distinct segment of the working class and, in Anarchist class analysis, they belong to a different class with regards to power relations as opposed to merely considering control of the means of production.



True, but you may think of those bosses as tools of the real power possessors - property owners. They are the sort of extension of their power.


As Syndicat stated, the concept of property owner is here deduced to it's de jure meaning, a senseless move. When analyzing class society we have to analyse the de facto power relations, regardless of the de jure status of 'property owners'. Power is exercised through the social framework and certain professions (the army, the police, certain types of managers and professions with regard to streamlining Capital's processes,etc) act as the enforcers and arbiters of these power relations, hence de facto exercising the domination and it's consequences over the working class.



In socialism, on the other hand the exertion of power was more complex. As the economy was centrally planned, the group of economists (eg. in GOSPLAN) made a list of production priorities and production quotas.


The core problem here, again, is if these production priorities are determined solemnly by a central group of 'experts' instead of this council acting as an aggregate function of the input delivered bottom-up by producer's and consumer's councils then the economic control lies with a bureaucracy and not with the working class.



But of course political party itself became a battleground for the class struggle between different classes and social strata.


The very fact that this is possible is what has always made me wary of parties, disregarding my critiques regarding vanguardism and centralist power structures.



What is also important, that profit - even when existed in socialist economy - was not expropriated by private individuals, but is was spend for satisfaction of social needs, according to the economic plan. And the working class had (theoretically and practically) full control over the priorities of the plan via participation in workers parties.


How did this work in practice, how was worker input over the drafting of the economic plan implemented in practice? I'm genuinly interested as my knowledge on this subject is lacking.

syndicat
10th May 2010, 18:07
Sure, but lets don't mix up ordinary petit bourgeoisie who buys the labor on the market (eg. private doctors, some lawyers, traders etc.) for individual profit - with groups of professionals who simply serves bourgeoisie (eg. managers, lawyers, police, army officers etc.). In that second case - they exert the power, true - but they do not exert the power for its own sake - but in the interest of theirs masters. That's why they do not constitute a separate class, but are the tool in the hands of the class of capitalists. Capitalist class exert power over them AND their workers.


It doesn't matter whether the professional has a contracting outfit or their own practice. Their power doesn't derive from ownership of physical or financial capital but from their expertise and their decision making authority. You're looking it purely de jure and not in terms of de facto power, to use the previous poster's terminology. For example, many industrial engineers work on contract as management consultants, but their role is to define jobs and re-structure work flows. This does serve the profit-making aims of the firms, but not only them, because it also empowers the managers and top professionals who work with them. In other words, deskilling and other aspects of Taylorism can't be explained solely in terms of profit to the firm but also serve the power of the bureaucracy...and sometimes are actually destructive to profit making.


In socialism, on the other hand the exertion of power was more complex. As the economy was centrally planned, the group of economists (eg. in GOSPLAN) made a list of production priorities and production quotas. It was passed to the industrial units, which in various periods/geographical areas possessed different degree of autonomy (that may include some corrections). On the political level, the power over production was exerted by the ruling party, which also varied in its composition in time and space. In the most of cases the leading class in ruling party was working class, but especially towards the late periods, the petit-bourgeoisie and other groups and strata gained influence. This system was called the dictatorship of proletaryat.

well this is nonsense but is the self-serving ideology used to justify the bureaucracy's position. as Marx said, the working class can't be socially empowered if they're enslaved in production. Having no say over their work, being under the thumb of the managers and experts who make the decisions...that's class oppression.

it doesn't matter if nominally a majority of members of the "party" were workers. they didn't have power.

Statist central planning will inevitably destroy any worker self-management. That's because the planners at the center, and their bosses, will want to have people onsite to ensure everyone obeys the plan, so the center ends up appointing managers over workers.
if the plans are made at the center, what say do workers actually have? their de jure membership in the "party" is irrelevant.

meanwhile, local managers and workers collude to hide their real capability from the center, to the whole system is inefficient.

RED DAVE
10th May 2010, 20:06
What is important is that they were given all the opportunities - i.e. legal instruments to do so and that workers were encouraged to take part in self-management of the socialist economy via political mechanisms of socialist organization (eg. via workers party).The essence of stalinist bullshit spread out on a plate for all to see. Under socialism, workers won't have to be "encouraged to take part in self-management" (which is itself a contradiction). Under socialism there will be no other mechanisms of management other than that of the workers. And workers self-management will not take place through " political mechanisms of socialist organization (eg. via workers party)." It will be exerted directly, by workers, from the shop floor up.

If the USSR had been socialist, workers would have fought to the death to defend what was theirs: their socialist society. It wasn't theirs; it was controlled by the bureaucracy.

RED DAVE

Lenin II
11th May 2010, 06:43
Cut out the plural, it was a year ago.

No, it was almost three years ago in fact. I first became a "communist" in March 2007, after which I had an anarchist/ultra-left period, which led me to study the works of Lenin. I was not ready to stomach Stalin at the time, but embraced most of the tenets of Leninism. Soon I began talking with real life Maoists, who persuaded me to adopt that line. Mostof 2008 was spent this way and doing political work for a Maoist organization.

I had spent a few months spamming revlib with embarassing Trot posts before adopting a "Stalinist" line, but later came into contact with pro-Albanian individuals, whose position I found more sympathetic than Mao's, especially given the highly questionable actions of Mao during and after the GPCR. After I read Hoxha's book that was it for me. I have since upheld that line from late 2008 to the present, although I had resudual sympathies to Mao for some time afterward before I did research into production in China.

If you're going to claim to know me you must get the timeline straight, although I wouldn't encourage stalking me more than you already apparently have. I must be interesting.


I was merely pointing out that you are very easilly persuaded in a short period of time and not very coherent.

It's called learning, something Brezhnevites do not do.

Honggweilo
11th May 2010, 10:52
If you're going to claim to know me you must get the timeline straight, although I wouldn't encourage stalking me more than you already apparently have. I must be interesting.
Unwarented self-importance, it doesnt take "stalking" to see a dramatic shift in analysis of a user when he posts here and there. You're just feeding a troll, you know that right?


It's called learningThats called using politics as a theoretical circlejerk hobby, trying to project an ideal ideology on an imperfect reality


something Brezhnevites do not do.Meanwhile, in the real world

http://i.usatoday.net/news/_photos/2010/05/04/acropolisx-large.jpg

Meanwhile the hoxhaist mass movement

http://www.phoenixkat.net/computer%20rage.gif

Lenin II
11th May 2010, 18:02
Meanwhile the hoxhaist mass movement


http://coffeemarxist.files.wordpress.com/2010/05/pcmle1.jpg
http://coffeemarxist.files.wordpress.com/2010/05/pcmle2.jpg?w=500&h=375
http://coffeemarxist.files.wordpress.com/2010/05/pcmle3.jpg?w=375&h=500
http://coffeemarxist.files.wordpress.com/2010/05/pcmle4.jpg?w=500&h=333
http://coffeemarxist.files.wordpress.com/2010/05/pcmle5.jpg?w=500&h=375
http://coffeemarxist.files.wordpress.com/2010/05/pcmle6.jpg?w=500&h=333
http://coffeemarxist.files.wordpress.com/2010/05/pcmle7.jpg?w=500&h=375
http://coffeemarxist.files.wordpress.com/2010/05/pcmle8.jpg?w=500&h=375
http://coffeemarxist.files.wordpress.com/2010/05/pcmle9.jpg?w=500&h=333
http://coffeemarxist.files.wordpress.com/2010/05/pcmle11.jpg?w=366&h=429

Honggweilo
11th May 2010, 19:06
I was refering to the "KΚΕ 1918-55" in greece and the APL. But whats this? oh you found an exception of hoxhaists with actual activity in Ecuador, great, they actually put their words to deeds. Still you talk about and exception (and even these exceptions arent all rabid sectarians like you, for example the PCE(ml), who is in the ICMPLO also participates in the "pan-socialists" ICS. I have no beef with them). Ofcourse us "Pan-socialists" are sooo revisionist that we actually support hoxhaists movements who actually make a progressive difference (as they clearly did all over south america in the past), and have the guts to aknowledge when we are wrong. Still this doesnt negate the fact you sitting on your ass.

Also this;


From 9 to July 13, 2007, the MPD and PCMLE (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PCMLE) jointly organized the XI International Seminar's "Problems of Revolution in Latin America," which was attended by, in addition to the MPD and PCMLE, organizations like the FARC (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FARC), the Popular Liberation Army (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Popular_Liberation_Army) of Colombia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colombia), the Manuel Rodriguez Patriotic Front (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manuel_Rodriguez_Patriotic_Front) of Chile (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chile), the Communist Party of Peru - Red Fatherland (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_Party_of_Peru_-_Red_Fatherland), and several other organizations in Ecuador, including the Revolutionary Youth of Ecuador (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Revolutionary_Youth_of_Ecuador&action=edit&redlink=1), the Federation of University Students of Ecuador (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Federation_of_University_Students_ of_Ecuador&action=edit&redlink=1), the General Workers Union of Ecuador (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=General_Workers_Union_of_Ecuador&action=edit&redlink=1), and the United Federation of Affiliates for Peasant Social Security (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=United_Federation_of_Affiliates_fo r_Peasant_Social_Security&action=edit&redlink=1).[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_People%27s_Movement#cite_note-1)Wow, they are working with the "Breznevite" FARC and CPP-RF, and actually cooperating! how revisionist of them!. This proves how actual day to day struggle in mass movements is the deathblow to petty reductionist analyses, due to infantile ultra-leftism. The real world is not that black&white

and last but not least;


http://coffeemarxist.files.wordpress.com/2010/05/pcmle11.jpg?w=366&h=429Check this kid out, he has some "left liberal social imperialist hippie claiming to be a communist" on his shirt, what a douche! :lol:

bie
11th May 2010, 20:10
Power is exercised through the social framework and certain professions (the army, the police, certain types of managers and professions with regard to streamlining Capital's processes,etc) act as the enforcers and arbiters of these power relations, hence de facto exercising the domination and it's consequences over the working class.
Ok, but why the same cannot be used in the interest of the working class? Why cannot working class use that "means of power" in order to advance with its own class interest and program? Why it cannot invert those relations by obtaining a control over it? What makes you think that the "means of power" are reactionary in itself? How otherwise can working class defend its gains against its class enemies?

The core problem here, again, is if these production priorities are determined solemnly by a central group of 'experts' instead of this council acting as an aggregate function of the input delivered bottom-up by producer's and consumer's councils then the economic control lies with a bureaucracy and not with the working class.
But production priorities will always be determined by "groups of expert", rather that giving it to amateurs! It requires specialists (economists, etc.) to run and coordinate the economy. If you leave it for spontaneous development it will end up in total chaos. The core question is not is "experts" or "floor-staff" - but - in the interest of which class experts make decisions. What is the class interest that influences them at particular historic moment. Eg. in early 30 most cadres decide to give its support to soviets, but in 80 - the same cadres acted under the petit-bourgeoisie ideology and the influence of reactionary ideology.

How did this work in practice, how was worker input over the drafting of the economic plan implemented in practice? I'm genuinly interested as my knowledge on this subject is lacking.
Plan's objectives itself ware made by the worker's party CC (in some periods and places it was genuine worker's organization), which members were workers. It covered the range of the targets, made by the scientific analysis of current social needs. eg. electrification of villages, mechanization of agriculture, increase in industrial output etc. For the most of time they were pretty reasonable goals, originated from the rational analysis. In the very late period, the workers parties were, however strongly influenced by petit-bourgeoisie elements and reactionary ideology, therefore their "reforms" made planning less efficient.

bie
11th May 2010, 20:30
the working class can't be socially empowered if they're enslaved in production. Having no say over their work, being under the thumb of the managers and experts who make the decisions...that's class oppression.
"Enslaving in production" doesn't refer to the fact that workers have to carry on its work according to certain instructions and procedures :) but - to complete power of the property owner over its labor force due to the fact that WORKER IS FORCED TO SELL ITS LABOR ON THE MARKET, and capitalist may or may not - but this labor. Economical constraints force workers into labor contracts and labor conditions that are not just (eg. wages, hours, job type, etc.). And this is the source of class opression. Can you imagine eg. moderate size manufacturing plant run without any coordination?
Even in communism there will be a need of organization of work, it is the consequence of the complexity of modern industry.

Statist central planning will inevitably destroy any worker self-management. That's because the planners at the center, and their bosses, will want to have people onsite to ensure everyone obeys the plan, so the center ends up appointing managers over workers.
if the plans are made at the center, what say do workers actually have? their de jure membership in the "party" is irrelevant.
Central planning IS the workers self-management - but on the larger scale. If you put all those industry together you get huge number of variables; inputs, outputs, logistics, trade etc. This is why central planning is for. You cannot run the 1000s of industries without complex coordination. How can you imagine that? Self-managed enterprises producing commodities on the market? But this is nothing but the utopian form of capitalism - economic relations would remain identical as in capitalism. Those enterprises would compete with each other instead of cooperating. How would you force them to cooperation? Second - the unempoyment etc. would still exist, economic laws would be still chaotic and workers would still work as wage-laborers. Profit would be the dominant motive for the production. So - actually - nothing would change..

bie
11th May 2010, 20:52
Under socialism, workers won't have to be "encouraged to take part in self-management" (which is itself a contradiction).
You are very optimistic to assume that everyone will express his interest in politics not only at theoretical level but also in practice and for all the time.. May be you can tell us where you can find workers willing to do so? :) What would you do when one tells you "I don't care about politics". Get real. :)


If the USSR had been socialist, workers would have fought to the death to defend what was theirs: their socialist society.
And they did. In 1941-45. Almost 25 million died. Later they fought too - 2-3.X.1993. But then large parts were influenced, fooled and confused by petit bourgeoisie ideology. For example, in Poland some parts of working class were openly reactionary (mainly because they were influenced by catholic church.). This may answer your question. Now it is time for you to answer my question.

If the USSR had been "bureaucratic" (ie. owned and ruled by the class of bureaucrats in the interest of bureaucrats), bureaucrats would have fought to the death to defend what was theirs: their bureaucratic society???? Why they didn't?

Ravachol
11th May 2010, 21:56
Ok, but why the same cannot be used in the interest of the working class? Why cannot working class use that "means of power" in order to advance with its own class interest and program?


First of all, the institutes and power relations that are in function now were developed under the capital's dominance and hence function according to it's logic,for example: a person who hires and fires people unilateraly isn't class-neutral and such a position can never be used for the good of the working class.

Secondly, you refer to things being run 'in the interest of' the working class. This is communism upside-down, society ought to be run BY the working class FOR the working class as a class-for-itself. When positions of power are occupied by a group of people instead of government (to which no sane anarchist is opposed) being run by delegates there is no reason for these people not to use these positions of power to exert dominance over the working class. Especially in the initial transition phase to communism where reversion to class society or private accumulation might still be possible, this is highly dangerous. And even when that's no longer possible, the very exertion of dominance and unilateral authority as opposed to recallable delegates elected by worker's councils creates a society where dominance and submission are still integral parts of daily life, something we as communists ought to eliminate.



Why it cannot invert those relations by obtaining a control over it? What makes you think that the "means of power" are reactionary in itself?


Because, as argued above, they are designed for and operate according to the logic of capital and dominance. Unless the whole working class is in control of society's functioning, a reactionary oligarchy will inevitably develop.



But production priorities will always be determined by "groups of expert", rather that giving it to amateurs! It requires specialists (economists, etc.) to run and coordinate the economy.


This is elitist nonsense. Obviously administration of production processes requires 'expertise'. But this is a relative concept, driving a truck is best left to the truck driver, who has expertise in that area. Similarly, developing software is best left to the programmer. 'Managing the economy', however, is not a productive and neutral activity like driving a truck. The economy is a matter of administration of the spheres of production and distribution and hence ought to be fully controlled by the working class. This does not mean a truck driver starts deciding what software should look like, but it does mean that every worker gets to manage his own productive activity in his or her respective area. As for deciding what is to be produced, instead of an elitist group of 'experts' deciding what is to be produced after holding surveys, control of this activity should be in the hands of consumer councils, supervised and aided by a council of experts who act as ADVISORS, not as planners with unilateral authority.



Plan's objectives itself ware made by the worker's party CC (in some periods and places it was genuine worker's organization), which members were workers. It covered the range of the targets, made by the scientific analysis of current social needs. eg. electrification of villages, mechanization of agriculture, increase in industrial output etc.


If this is decided by a small group of 'experts' without involving the working class this is, I'm sorry to say, not communism or the road to communism. Communism is about worker's management of their own lives and self-activity, bottom-up.



In the very late period, the workers parties were, however strongly influenced by petit-bourgeoisie elements and reactionary ideology, therefore their "reforms" made planning less efficient.

The very fact that this was possible ought to point in the direction of flaws in the logic and structure of that particular road to communism.

howblackisyourflag
12th May 2010, 22:20
Fascinating article by Parenti. But it feels like the more I read the less I know! Theres so much to learn...

syndicat
12th May 2010, 23:36
"Enslaving in production" doesn't refer to the fact that workers have to carry on its work according to certain instructions and procedures :) but - to complete power of the property owner over its labor force due to the fact that WORKER IS FORCED TO SELL ITS LABOR ON THE MARKET, and capitalist may or may not - but this labor. Economical constraints force workers into labor contracts and labor conditions that are not just (eg. wages, hours, job type, etc.). And this is the source of class opression. Can you imagine eg. moderate size manufacturing plant run without any coordination?


No. Marx is talking about workers being subordinated to another class. It doesn't have to be a capitalist class. Could be a bureaucratic class as under the so-called "Communist" regimes. Being forced to sell your labor to a boss is part of class oppression but the not the whole of it. This can be seen from the fact that class oppression has occurred under other types of economic arrangements. An essential part of class oppression under capitalism is that the decisions over your work are made by a managerial elite, they monitor you, can fire you or demote you, control the organization of the work, control how jobs are defined. For workers to not control these things means they are subordinate to a dominating class of some kind. Oppression is domination, subordination, lack of control over your life, structural inequality where other people have systematically more power than you do.


Central planning IS the workers self-management - but on the larger scale. If you put all those industry together you get huge number of variables; inputs, outputs, logistics, trade etc. This is why central planning is for. You cannot run the 1000s of industries without complex coordination. How can you imagine that? Self-managed enterprises producing commodities on the market?

Coordination can occur through the use of an ideal price system within a planning system. Thus you can have individual workplaces devise their own plans. But the coordinating center collects all the plans and works out what this implies in terms of projected supply and demand. If there is a mismatch, the pricing rules will then raise or lower prices accordingly, thus forcing worker gruops to revise their plans to stay in budget. You do not need to have an elite planning and managerial apparatus to give them orders as Leninists usually suppose.

RadioRaheem84
13th May 2010, 01:06
I don't mean to tread off topic but I have noticed that a lot of the liberal humanitarianism and left liberal hawks are coming from Tony Blair's New Labour lackey camp in the UK, Hitchens, Nick Cohen, Oliver Kamm, Norman Geras. In the States, they're here but largely bourgeois and more centrist.

These guys can be the smarmiest bunch of clowns ever.

Ocean Seal
20th May 2010, 23:46
If communists in the United States played an important role struggling for the rights of workers, the poor, African-Americans, women, and others, this was only their guileful way of gathering support among disfranchised groups and gaining power for themselves. How one gained power by fighting for the rights of powerless groups was never explained.
This is especially true, capitalists aren't afraid to teach MLK, but when it comes to teaching about the panthers they are described as a detriment to the civil rights movement.

DaringMehring
21st May 2010, 02:49
I have met & talked with Parenti. He comes off a bit angry, but well-spoken, and generally friendly.


Those of us who refused to join in the Soviet bashing were branded by left anticommunists as "Soviet apologists" and "Stalinists," even if we disliked Stalin and his autocratic system of rule and believed there were things seriously wrong with existing Soviet society. Our real sin was that unlike many on the Left we refused to uncritically swallow U.S. media propaganda about communist societies. Instead, we maintained that, aside from the well-publicized deficiencies and injustices, there were positive features about existing communist systems that were worth preserving, that improved the lives of hundreds of millions of people in meaningful and humanizing ways.

I more or less agree with this. It seems quite similar to the line of degenerated workers' state (needing a political but not social revolution).

But when he goes off against people who think "a real socialism, it is argued, would be controlled by the workers themselves" he is trashing Marx et al.

How can he be against "the autocracy" while not being for the worker's democracy?

Chimurenga.
24th May 2010, 18:55
I have met & talked with Parenti. He comes off a bit angry, but well-spoken, and generally friendly.



I more or less agree with this. It seems quite similar to the line of degenerated workers' state (needing a political but not social revolution).

But when he goes off against people who think "a real socialism, it is argued, would be controlled by the workers themselves" he is trashing Marx et al.

How can he be against "the autocracy" while not being for the worker's democracy?

Well, first and foremost, he is a Marxist and you're misunderstanding what he's saying:



But a real socialism, it is argued, would be controlled by the workers themselves through direct participation instead of being run by Leninists, Stalinists, Castroites, or other ill-willed, power-hungry, bureaucratic, cabals of evil men who betray revolutions. Unfortunately, this "pure socialism" view is ahistorical and nonfalsifiable; it cannot be tested against the actualities of history. It compares an ideal against an imperfect reality, and the reality comes off a poor second. It imagines what socialism would be like in a world far better than this one, where no strong state structure or security force is required, where none of the value produced by workers needs to be expropriated to rebuild society and defend it from invasion and internal sabotage.

He's talking about pretentiousness and idealism within the Left in the US that critique countries that have applied Socialism. In the lecture entitled "Reflection of the Overthrow of Communism", he adds to this something along the lines of 'It's a shame that these people don't put their energy or brilliant insights into developing liberation movements of their own'.

comradesvs
1st June 2010, 02:32
A great article. Parenti is always pretty good though. Saw him speak last time he was here. Has everyone seen his new book, God and His Demons? I'm just about to start reading it.

Jose Gracchus
5th June 2010, 08:17
An essay and reply I composed elsewhere recently to this same article:

I do hope you will be fair rather than lumping me in with the class enemy or a dupe of imperialism, or some other narrative framework whereby those who disagree with any party line fundamentals are ipso facto judged to be illegitimate in intent.

In any case, I don't think Michael Parenti is offering the Marxist-Leninist boilerplate defense of Bolshevism generally, and Stalin in particular. He is addressing an American political phenomena in particular, a tendency of anti-capitalists to try and win 'respectability' in a virulently anti-socialist political culture by offering undeserved placation to left-liberal opinion in the hope of winning their two-faced 'sympathy'. Now we can debate Marxism-Leninism versus Trotskyism/left communism/anarchism, but that is a separate issue from this article.

To wit: Parenti's opening quote speaks of the "American left", he repeatedly cites "U.S. Left", he speaks of liberal writer Adam Hochschild requiring dogmatic anti-communism to establish 'credibility' (i.e., ideological litmus tests), etc. This is not a thesis defending Lenin's "Left-wing Communism: An Infantile Disorder" or Marx and Engel's and Marxists' generally attacks on Bakunin in particular and anarchism in general. So let us draw a bifurcation between this article and a much more general, separate debate. Parenti is not making a party line, theoretical debate -- though it could and probably would be associated with such an overall thesis -- the essay is a specific critique of political tendencies among the American Left. So, let's see if versus those claims, they apply fairly to Chomsky.

Let's start first with the quotes offered of Chomsky:


PARENTI: "Listen to Noam Chomsky holding forth about "left intellectuals" who try to "rise to power on the backs of mass popular movements" and "then beat the people into submission. . . . You start off as basically a Leninist who is going to be part of the Red bureaucracy. You see later that power doesn't lie that way, and you very quickly become an ideologist of the right. . . . We're seeing it right now in the [former] Soviet Union. The same guys who were communist thugs two years back, are now running banks and [are] enthusiastic free marketeers and praising Americans" (Z Magazine, 10/95)."

Although the issue has been pointed out that Chomsky's attack was unfair in that it did not recognize continuing communist efforts to prevent the collapse of collective and social institutions, and I will grant that, the issue that Chomsky points out was completely dodged. Much of the new ruling class DID emerge from the nomenklatura, and the party institutions of nomination, indoctrination, education, and litmus tests did not prevent the development of nascent counter-revolutionary forces from developing within the party and state structure more generally, and provided a huge volunteer pool for Jeffrey Sachs’ gangster-capitalist takeover.

To move on, Chomsky hardly presents some hard, quasi-left-liberal anticommunist line on the former Eastern Bloc. He denounced the vision of the ‘liberation’ of the Eastern Bloc presented in the West as self-serving farce, frequently contrasting Václav Havel’s canonization in the Western media and culture to the cricket-filled silence surrounding the torture and murder of liberation theologians organizing peasants in El Salvador by U.S. –trained and backed death squads. He also lamented the breakdown of the Eastern Bloc’s socialist institutions and worker-centered culture:

ht tp:// books.google.com/books?id=rF4bXdo10ZYC&pg=PA79&lpg=PA79&dq=chomsky+poland+rich+women&source=bl&ots=-1KZNahih6&sig=5bIJaZ5TOOwLesHR0__x7PW_BDY&hl=en&ei=NE8JTOEWg4KUB53Y1bcO&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CBYQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false

If this is the “capitalist media”’s treatment of the fall of the Eastern Bloc, you’ll have to point out to me where I can find it. This is not subservience to left-liberal opinion, at least not in the explicit sense Parenti seems to imply, and he is certainly pilloried for his ‘sympathy’ for ‘Communism’ within mainstream sectors. And as noted before, where is the challenge to the fact that gangster-capitalists often originated within the party-state apparatus? If it is factually true, the most one can quibble is that you think Chomsky is being unfairly generalizing. That’s hardly an explicit case of being a capitalist dupe.

Parenti’s article posits a historically inaccurate and opportunistic narrative within U.S. left-intellectual circles formulated with the motive of appealing and appeasing left-liberal sectors. Why don’t we sample some of Parenti’s actual thesis:


PARENTI: “Saturated by anticommunist orthodoxy, most U.S. leftists have practiced a left McCarthyism against people who did have something positive to say about existing communism, excluding them from participation in conferences, advisory boards, political endorsements, and left publications. Like conservatives, left anticommunists tolerated nothing less than a blanket condemnation of the Soviet Union as a Stalinist monstrosity and a Leninist moral aberration.”It is trivial to prove that what many of you are saying – and you may have an argument for it, and perhaps it is valid – is not the point Parenti is making. Not all opposition to Marxism-Leninism in particular, Leninism more generally (so including Trotsky and Trotskyism: the video you posted is a refutation of a Trotskyist woman from the ISO), and Marxism itself still yet more generally, is incorporated into Parenti’s thesis. First of all, Parenti is making a claim about U.S. left political tactics of self-purging in the hopes of capturing mainstream legitimacy. But according to the ML line, I suppose all anarchists since Bakunin have been part of a U.S. left compromise. After all, they criticized Marxism since its inception, and anarchists left the historical case of the October Revolution and subsequent Civil War with a bitter antipathy toward Leninism in general. Trotsky and his supporters ended up bitterly opposed to the line eventually upheld as orthodoxy in the USSR. These are perfect examples of anti-USSR (in different instances and on different points) opposition on very different grounds from the case that “U.S. leftists have practiced a left McCarthyism against people who did have something positive to say about existing communism”. You may have your own seperate criticisms of the anarchist or Trotskyist lines, but that is not the issue with Parenti in this article.

That brings me to my next point. As I provided evidence earlier, in the case of sympathy for workers now abandoned to the new capitalist order from prior-ly existing socialist and collective institutions that Chomsky speaks of with respect, he also favorably compared democratic participation at a ground-up, people’s level in the Maoist development of the People’s Republic of China. He even compares it favorably to democratic practice and culture in the United States.

To wit (sorry I couldn’t find the break down by clip, but it is at 47 minutes):

ht tp:// video.google.com/videoplay?docid=870106744163006454#

I suppose one could find that insufficient, but I think that goes way beyond what even most Trotskyists are willing to yield, and I think on balance he seems to come out in favor of allowing the Maoist project to move forward. Furthermore, he at length defended the democratic and socialist bona fides of the NLF in South Vietnam, and had this whole article to write about his trip to the Democratic Republic of Vietnam. Now maybe you think this is reflective of “Left McCarthyism” or self-censorship or purging of “people who did have something positive to say about existing communism”, but I think one has to be truly dogmatic to make that assertion:

ht tp://ww w.nybooks.com/articles/archives/1970/aug/13/a-special-supplement-in-north-vietnam/

In conclusion, on the Chomsky-Parenti issue in this article specifically, I think there is a conflating of ML politics and a general critique of anti-Leninist and particularly, anti-Marxist-Leninist, lines with Parenti’s claim of a U.S. Left captive by their desire for approval. I don’t think the case can be convincingly made in Chomsky’s case. He wrote his first essay defending anarcho-syndicalism when he was like 12 or 13, in the 30s, so I doubt he was subject to some post-war left McCarthyism, and he consistently kept to an anarcho-syndicalist line on October, Lenin, and the Bolsheviks, which whatever one thinks of that line, is not an opportunistic position within the scope of U.S. left tactics. Personally, I do think his history is kind of sloppy and his elucidation of this line comes off rather crudely and doctrinaire. Furthermore, his position on the Soviet-aligned Eastern Bloc was mixed, condemning Western hagiography as self-serving propaganda and bemoaning the destruction of egalitarian and collective social institutions – when being a miner was enough – and also pointed out that the USSR did offer some support to people’s movements and liberation in the Third World, and its existence provided a greater capacity for independent or non-aligned development than now possible. He unfairly overgeneralizes Soviet Communists, but it is true they produced the post-communist gangsters and failed curtail the covert development of counter-revolutionary forces. Lastly, I don’t think one can group him in with the opportunistic leftists who denounce all who have “anything good to say about existing communism”, considering his Eastern Bloc line, Latin American line, and especially his support for Maoist development and the North Vietnamese socialist project. It is simply not a clear-cut case of opportunistic anti-Leninism in order to pursue left-liberal acceptability. I think he may have some edge of incentive to focus on issues of U.S. foreign policy and avoid revolutionary praxis or detailed history because it would be less politically convenient, but this is essentially impossible to prove and a much, much watered-down claim from what Parenti is stating.

On the separate issue of Parenti’s thesis at large – I think I largely agree, while feeling his examples and sweeping generalization of all critics is unfair, and reminiscent of the categorical and dogmatic anti-Leninism he opposes. I think a general criticism of anti-Marxism-Leninism, or anti-Leninism more generally (heaven forbid anarchist anti-Marxism!) is a separate and much more lengthy issue, and I would consider it separately from the specific Parenti claims made here.

Lenina Rosenweg
7th June 2010, 21:55
I would agree with The Informed Candidate. As far as compromising with liberalism, Parenti supported Kerry in '04. This is from an interview w/Amy Goodman



MICHAEL PARENTI: John Edwards is vastly better. I have
been supporting Dennis Kucinich. If Dennis pulls out
of the race, I will definitely go with John Edwards,
yeah. I think he would actually make ultimately a
stronger candidate than John Kerry."


How is this different from Chomsky's liberalism?

Jose Gracchus
12th June 2010, 01:27
I don't think abstentionism means shit unless under the right material conditions or political climate. In the U.S., in specific elections, I agree with the Chomsky line. You can smear it as "liberal" or whatever, but at the end of the day, I think its true. There are real working people's conditions, which will be in some part affected by electoral outcomes even in the extremely rigid, limited, and deformed system. In this case, what if McCain had won? The attacks on basic survival like food stamps and unemployment insurance in a time of deep recession and desperation would have been severe. Real working people may have died. I voted for Obama. I think that the Bush clique was radical even by mainstream ruling class standards (hence the debate permitted even in business-owned sectors), and it was important to try to un-seat him. In this last election, I think in a tight race, one should've voted for Obama. In a looser one, certainly not. And no wasted energy in activism and organization toward the Democrats. Pull the lever if one must to maybe slightly ease the pain, but do not lend much-needed energy already subject to a very strict economy of effort to the more genial wing of the Business Party. Just because they're not the "damn I wish I could sell paint with lead" or "I love burning coal no matter what happens to the biosphere" or "I love chlorofluorocarbons" slash-and-burn wing, doesn't mean they're worth it. 99.9% of political activity and participation should be invested in activism and organizing popular and labor movements; the 5 minutes every several years is all -- if one must to avoid the distinguishable worse outcome -- anyone should give them. Otherwise vote Green, abstain, whatever.

A lot of these reasons would not matter in a freer and more substantive constitutional regime; the U.S. has a practically legally-mandated two-party-state system. A lot of options could open up even with relatively mainstream and liberal democratization reforms. Dahl's How Democratic is the U.S. Constitution? is a great source for the unique poverty of democracy in the U.S., even by intrinsically and constitutionally limited and rigid, bourgeois liberal democratic standards. It is also a great resource for debating or challenging Constitution Cultists, which are legion in the U.S.

Trotskist
19th July 2010, 06:30
Some guy said that the greatest enemy of USA socialists were the progressive-liberals (centrists). Remember that they call themselves "leftists", but i think that progressive-liberals are centrists, not leftists at all

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I agree with about 90% of this article wholeheartedly. Probably the best part of it is the way that Parenti exposes how American progressives can't shake the habit of proving to others their 'respectability' by engaging in Red-bashing, and how this has done irreparable damage to the American Left as a whole. Now the right merely needs to accuse liberals of being 'socialist' and large sections of this country will go into fits of hysteria. It is also refreshing that Parenti takes on "pure socialists" who simply dismiss the revolutions in Russia, China, Vietnam, and Cuba in their entirety and basically concede to the capitalists that socialism can never work in practice. One cannot defend everything that happpened in those revolutions, as is the case with any large historical event, but their are plenty of parts of our history that communists can and should defend, the positive gains that communists made in those countries.
Having said that, I think Parenti(in this essay and in 'Blackshirts and Reds') is pretty soft on Stalin. His defamatory attack on George Orwell, calling him a 'red basher who pretended to be on the left', is quite insulting given that Orwell fought in a Trotskyist battalion in Spain against fascism and was himself a socialist. This slander mirrors Stalinist propaganda.

Trotskist
19th July 2010, 06:37
PARENTI IS 100% CORRECT, i have been banned from commondreams, alternet, dissidentvoice, truthdig, huffingtonpost, smirkingchimp and many other bourgeoise-reformist (progressive-liberal) news and forum websites for posting marxist articles. I don't know why progressive-liberals hate Karl Marx, Trotsky and Lenin, like Dracula hates The Christian Cross

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