The struggle in Greece is not...

[Saorsa]

an excuse for yet another Leninist vs Trotskyist vs anarchist pissing match. Can we discuss the issues calmly and sensibly without it turning into "wooot go the kke anarchists sux" and "kke sux goooo ANRkY"?

[Wanted Man]

It isn't? :blink:

Seriously though, the discussion is inevitable, considering that both are important forces in the current events. If anything, it is an interesting thing to analyse: what role do these groups play? Progressive, or...?

The main problem is that some people will probably take the opportunity to engage in dick-measuring: "Our guys are burning the parliament, what are you doing?" This is confusing the principle of international solidarity with trying to "live through" foreign parties, like parents who never made it big in sports fanatically coaching their children at the Little League game, losing all sight of reality. As for sectarianism in general, that's already way overplayed on Revleft anyway. If people can avoid that, it will be fine.

Some questions that I think deserve consideration:


Since when are revolutions made by parties or ideologies, rather than the working-class? Even if that were possible, does that mean that revolutions are monolithic, i.e. that all the workers are part of the same group, with the same goals, progressing in a direct line towards socialism or anarchy? If not, why expect that in Greece?
When looking at current events, do you hope that they will bring revolutionary change, or is it more important that "your guys" look better in the media?
Is it possible that you're pissed off that there is relatively little happening in your own country, and that you might therefore be easily impressed by "riot porn" or by the fact that the communists and other organisations have so much mass support in Greece?
Do you realise that a general strike or a riot is not the same thing as a revolution?


Just a few things that occurred to me.

[F9]

I have to agree with both of you actually(thats weird:lol:) its stupid to turn discussions of an ongoing situation that can turn to anything at any time, to stupid discussions with useless posts, but criticizing a side, its not bad knowing what happens, and if some mistakes occure we can point them and discuss them.

i want just to stand at just one of your points WM, last one, im quite sure that most can, but is the hidden hope that make the people feel that its something like a revolution.Of course i find myself one of the less confident on the situation, but i cant say that i find those that make the things a bit bigger than they actually are, wrong.I just realize that they search for the revolution, they need that hope.

[Saorsa]

like parents who never made it big in sports fanatically coaching their children at the Little League game, losing all sight of reality.

That is a fantastic analogy.

[Wanted Man]

i want just to stand at just one of your points WM, last one, im quite sure that most can, but is the hidden hope that make the people feel that its something like a revolution.Of course i find myself one of the less confident on the situation, but i cant say that i find those that make the things a bit bigger than they actually are, wrong.I just realize that they search for the revolution, they need that hope.

What I was saying was more of a general statement. It also applies to threads about events in France, Italy, etc. There is a difference between optimism and self-delusion.

Of course, it's important to remain optimistic. I'm not pleading for everyone to turn into a bunch of naysayers and defeatists at every turn. Moreover, the situation in Greece at this moment is one where conditions could actually swing in that direction. There are few band-aid "solutions" remaining for capital to save its ass.

However, there is also a good chance that a revolution will not develop yet. All I'm saying is that this would be no disgrace at all. Just consider how much the workers' movement has been crushed worldwide over the past decades. The fact that a movement like this is building up in Greece is inspiring by its very nature, and if it doesn't happen now, it will happen later.

[RadioRaheem84]

Wow. Is the situation in Greece that explosive that there had to be a whole new forum invoked in it's name? That is amazing! :D

[which doctor]

Wow. Is the situation in Greece that explosive that there had to be a whole new forum invoked in it's name? That is amazing! :D
Don't get too excited...

[RadioRaheem84]

Don't get too excited...


:(

What do you make of it?

[FSL]

:(

What do you make of it?

The bourgeoisie won't be overthrown tomorrow but things are fluid and will remain so for quite some time.
Many people see that this "doesn't work" but it's still necessary to demonstrate what can work.

[scarletghoul]

Yeah its really awesome and potentially a big step in revolutionary direction, but the country isnt exactly on the eve of revolution like Nepal is. (Nepal is much more deserving of a seperate section but ah well. We'll just have to stick to that massive oversised news thread..)

Would be cool if the revolutionary forces could unite just a little, they would be unstoppable :p

[What Would Durruti Do?]

While I agree with you it's pretty much inevitable that these pissing contests will happen.

Greece has a wide range of ideological influences directing the working class right now. Before they can do anything note worthy they have to unite behind a certain path.

But of course we should leave these things to the Greeks. I just get sick of all the calls for a "vanguard" when there is no evidence that this is what the Greeks desire.