Friendly capitalist?

[Buddha Samurai Cadre]

My Ma works for the accounting section of a construction company, the owner of the company is a millionaire and hires thousands to work for him.

Last month he gave my mother a book on the IRA by pat coogan, a book on che guevara and a book on british history, he even gave my Ma a 30 quid picture album of the Easter rising to borrow (none have yet been returned) and has seemingly a vast array of books in his office.

But he is a capitalist no?

I guess my question is are all capitalists bad, or are some merely good at buisness and rise from living in dublin in a tiny flat to owning a shit load?

I mean i have to say anyone who can ammass more than a decent salary and live extravegently while the wretched of the earth starve must be a pretty disgusting person.

Even so, we tend top paint capitalists as all generic monsters, is this right or wrong?

Let me know what you think

Cheers

[What Would Durruti Do?]

It's possible for capitalists to be sympathetic to the class struggle. But obviously in a revolutionary scenario they would be forced to give up the means of production anyway. Hopefully by being sympathetic they wouldn't put up too much of a fight.

But it sounds to me that he's likely just a history buff.

[LeninBalls]

Anyone that lives off the labour and exploitation of others can never seem friendly to me, no matter how charming their attitude is.

[Zanthorus]

Socialism was originally at least partly a movement of the compassionate bourgeoisie. Robert Owen for example was a wealthy philanthropist horrified by the degradation of the workforce during the Industrial revolution (Althou contra-Kautsky there were still socialist thinkers with proletarian class backgrounds like Proudhon and Wietling).

I may be wrong on this but I think Engels himself was haute.

[The Vegan Marxist]

He probably made it big & doesn't feel, nor would I want him to feel, that he can go back to being an exploited worker. The money he gains, seeing as to how nice he is to your Ma, probably goes to his family if he has any. So to lose so much would be wrong. He seems to be sympathetic to our cause though. So I salute him & wished more capitalists were like that.

[manic expression]

Here's what Marx has to say about this (from the Manifesto):

Finally, in times when the class struggle nears the decisive hour, the progress of dissolution going on within the ruling class, in fact within the whole range of old society, assumes such a violent, glaring character, that a small section of the ruling class cuts itself adrift, and joins the revolutionary class, the class that holds the future in its hands. Just as, therefore, at an earlier period, a section of the nobility went over to the bourgeoisie, so now a portion of the bourgeoisie goes over to the proletariat, and in particular, a portion of the bourgeois ideologists, who have raised themselves to the level of comprehending theoretically the historical movement as a whole.

The Revolution is, ultimately, about humanity. The workers are the revolutionary class, no doubt, but they have allies from many backgrounds. It's about being a supporter of the workers and of progress, not some monastic vow of poverty.

By the way, people should read up on Lady Warwick. A very interesting story IMO.

Oh, and on edit, I just realized that my post doesn't really address this specific situation. I hope it helps anyway.

[Buddha Samurai Cadre]

i should say my moms working week has been cut short to 3 or 4 days a week and he can apparently be an arsehole, my mum calls him father hacket from off father ted lmao

Just because he is reasonable in some parts of buisnessit dosent give him the right to go out and fuckover the workers who make his company a company rather than a capitalist in an office with no capital

[Spawn of Stalin]

Socialism was originally at least partly a movement of the compassionate bourgeoisie. Robert Owen for example was a wealthy philanthropist horrified by the degradation of the workforce during the Industrial revolution (Althou contra-Kautsky there were still socialist thinkers with proletarian class backgrounds like Proudhon and Wietling).

I may be wrong on this but I think Engels himself was haute.

Indeed, Engels was the ultimate (and original) champagne socialist, he liked fine tobaccos and fox hunting...oh and he owned cotton mills.

[The Gallant Gallstone]

I think Manic Expression hit the nail on the head.

The capitalists are good at hedging their bets. When it becomes sensible to do so, some will offer vital assistance; I think this would be more out of careerism than any genuine revolutionary ardor.

The apparatus of capitalist control isn't all bullwhips and wage slavery. The sharper ones know how to play nice; especially when there's a union drive on. They need information sources too.

[bobroberts]

I'm not sure how useful it is to pass judgment on individuals, capitalism is a system that people find themselves thrust into by accident of birth and generally do what they can to get ahead by the rules of the game. When they act malevolently, that's one thing, if they are just living their life and playing by the established norms of society that's another. People who try to live their life by those norms are generally receptive to arguments about social justice and fairness, those who are malevolent could probably care less as long as their privileged position in society is protected.

[Foldered]

I've had plenty of "nice" managers before, but that doesn't mean that they aren't exploitative in their own ways, whether subtly or overtly.

[bailey_187]

he may be a nice person, but his interests are in conflict to workers ultimatly. he may wish them all the best, but as you said above, when he needs profit, no matter how nice he is, objective conditions will force him to cut pay/hours etc

[Argument]

All capitalists aren't bad, nor were all the slave owners bad. Remember that Thomas Jefferson, while being against slavery, owned slaves! In the future, people might ask: "But, weren't those savage meat eaters bad? They kept animals as slaves and butchered them, for food!" Today, we shake our heads at the people of the past. Tomorrow, people might shake their head at us!

Now, what's my point? The big problem is the capitalists system, not any single capitalist. Some capitalists are greedy and disregard the welfare of the workers, some aren't, though. Some just had a great idea, started a company and started hiring people. In our society, that's what you do when you have a great idea (well, unless you sell the idea, that is). In a future socialistic society, you might start a workers' cooperative based on that idea, but today, you might start a company.

[Buddha Samurai Cadre]

well put Argument have some rep

You wise hairy bhudda

[bricolage]

he may be a nice person, but his interests are in conflict to workers ultimatly.

Now, what's my point? The big problem is the capitalists system, not any single capitalist. Some capitalists are greedy and disregard the welfare of the workers, some aren't, though.

I think this is it really. Capitalists are not inherently 'evil', any more than workers are inherently 'good', they just act in their class interests. Once you start reducing these things to individuals and how they act you immediately lose a materialist understanding of the world.

I've always liked this John Holloway quote which I think is partly relevant here;


We hate capitalism and fight against it, but that does not make us the embodiment of good fighting against evil. On the contrary, we hate it not just because we adopt the common condition of the multitude, but because it tears us apart, because it penetrates us, because it turns us against ourselves, because it maims us. Communism is not the struggle of the Pure Subject, but the struggle of the maimed and the schizophrenic. Unless we start from there, there is no hope.

[Robocommie]

You wise hairy bhudda

lol I have never heard this phrase before but I like it.

[punisa]

I see no reason why a small portion (maybe 0,5 - 1 % ?) of capitalists wouldn't turn revolutionaries when the time finally comes.
Hell, the way I see it - if I came out with a brilliant business idea and made it big, I'd still be "red" - no matter how huge my bank account becomes.
Actually, I'd love it and would never think twice what to do with all that money - assist and arm the working class.

Perhaps it depends on how you view socialism - purely situationist and materialist or something much greater then that - a grand idea of the future classless equal society worth fighting for with all you got.


Indeed, Engels was the ultimate (and original) champagne socialist, he liked fine tobaccos and fox hunting...oh and he owned cotton mills.
Well Friedrich had sexier beard then Marx did, so all is forgiven :D


he may be a nice person, but his interests are in conflict to workers ultimatly. he may wish them all the best, but as you said above, when he needs profit, no matter how nice he is, objective conditions will force him to cut pay/hours etc
Exactly ! Capitalism as a system leaves no room for goodness.
Having that in mind, at the end of the line - everyone will get a chance to join our ranks and leave the means of production to the people.
If they do not - revolution will drown them.

[Buddha Samurai Cadre]

It made me laugh, after engels wife died, marx wrote i am sorry to hear of your (forgot name) passing blah blah

Then at the end of the note he asks for money haha

Marx was the equivelent to a guy on the dole, except he was given his money by some rich guy

They both have written loads on manchester and salford, where i am from

Where the cider is cheap and so are the slogans, here is an example

Salford lad
born and bread
strong in the arms
sick in the bed

or to be replaced with head depending on the situation haha

[~Spectre]

Class bigotry isn't necessary for Marxism. They (capitalists) are a product of material conditions and historical forces as well. That doesn't mean we don't push for the revolution, but every capitalist isn't necessarily some loathsome figure. One of the figures that was most responsible for radicalizing me and teaching me a good deal of history was an investment banker who was honest about how the world works.