My Day With The EDL

[MilitantAnarchist]

Edited due to story not being his causing problems for someone else in real life.

RedAnarchist

[Antifa94]

So, we should unite with the EDL in our common goal against Islamic extremism?
Like the Nazis and communists protesting the SPD?
Is that what you are saying?

[Buddha Samurai Cadre]

cool story bro

[MilitantAnarchist]

So, we should unite with the EDL in our common goal against Islamic extremism?

No, thats not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is if you take away there main aims and ideaologys of nationalism ext, they ain't all that different from us... If we can talk with them instead of this whole fucking childish shouting and fighting with eachother, it doesnt solve a fucking thing... I guess what I'm saying is, I dont want to share a platform with the Defence Leagues, and they dont want to share a platform with us... That doesn't meen we cant talk about shit... Can you imagine how fucking great it would be for EDL to declare BNP as much an enemy as radical islam? If we openly said that we declare radical islam a threat to us (all be it a smaller threat, a threat non the less) as much as BNP... You see where I'm going with this? Please, dont misunderstand me the last thing I'm saying is we join EDL's bullshit patriotic cause, but talking to people outside of both our worlds, who have they heard of and who's message do they know? Not ours, its theirs... And whether we like it or not, alot of people support them, what are we gonna do about that? Just fucking carry on the same way gaining no ground... or just stopping for a minute and thinking 'yea yea maybe we should approach it differently'.

Even EDL would have to admit that our side has alot of numbers, but who the fuck can respect UAF or Hope not Hate their fucking business run bunch of wankers supported by Labour for votes and Daily Mirror for lefty's cash.
I dont have all the answers mate, I'm just saying at the moment we're pissin into the wind here.
Just an idea, all of shoot me down and call me a twat, say I'm wrong if I'm wrong, all idea's should be put forward shouldn't they?

[AK]

dont just moan about my spelling and grammer
don't*, grammar*

[No pasarán]

I think there are elements of the EDL that could probably eventually be drawn to us- if we talk to them and make them realise the country they so love if part of the problem. But the EDL have also been throwin there weight around, bullying 'anarchists'. Recently they turned up at a mate of mines punk show and got a kicking from the band and the larger lads in there support (Admitably they are all fairly big lads, the bassist is 6' 4" ).

[Ravachol]

No, thats not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is if you take away there main aims and ideaologys of nationalism ext, they ain't all that different from us


I sure hope so. Their main motivation is ultra-nationalism. They don't "protest" Radical Islamism out of love for the gains of the LGBT-movement, 'democracy',etc nor out of secular motives. You won't see them marching against conservative christianity. The EDL is an ultra-nationalist movement with underlying racist overtones.

The reason why they appeal to a certain segment of the 'white' working class is two-sided:

(a) Plain hooliganism: A lot of the EDL lads are attracted far more by the prospect of a good one-two with the ol' pigs than by any ideology.

(b) Ultra-nationalism which found fertile soil in the discontent caused by the policies of labour and the tories. It is up to us, the radical left, to present them with an alternative on OUR terms. Not on the terms of 'jesus is my savior, long live the queen, britannia rules the waves'.



Can you imagine how fucking great it would be for EDL to declare BNP as much an enemy as radical islam?


Out of tactical reasons? Yes.
But the enemy of my enemy isn't exactly my friend.
Here in the Netherlands and Belgium the various factions of Blood&Honour fight on a regular basis. Doesn't mean i'm going to side with the C18 faction against the B&H/Traditional faction now am I?

In Sweden it's even more ridiculous, where some of the National-Socialist factions of the fascist movement have aligned themselves with far-right ultra-conservative Islamist groups and have thus gotten in conflict with the more national-conservative wing of Swedish Fascism. Doesn't mean we have to support either side.

There have been multiple threads on this topic in the Anti-Fascism section. Search for the ones relating to Far-right Islamism and the EDL as I'm too lazy to re-post what I said there :p

[MilitantAnarchist]

Here in the Netherlands and Belgium the various factions of Blood&Honour fight on a regular basis. Doesn't mean i'm going to side with the C18 faction against the B&H/Traditional faction now am I?

No it dont, but I'm just trying to find a new approach to a situation that is gonna fucking rage on for years. I'll be pretty pissed off if we all fight like cat and dog for a decade and realise that if we'd of just had a beer n a chat to start with we could of sorted somthing different out. Like i said, its oppinions I'm after, from both sides, I'm sure the EDL have stumbled on RevLeft before now and are reading this. If we are all just after a fight, then fucking go back to doing it under football, not politics.

[here for the revolution]

The thing is though mate...the BNP are in with the EDL. BNP candidates ARE regional leaders for EDL divisions and the like, this is a known fact. They've tried to distance themselves-in the case of the BNP to avoid more negative press about the EDL's activism, and in the case of the EDL to avoid being branded racist-but ultimately they are the same.
Sure, there may be some members who are simply against MILITANT Islam-but they are easily a very small minority and let's be honest, protesting against terrorism is a ridiculously illogical thing to do. The rest are just downright racist who oppose all strands of Islam and anybody who looks foreign-that is why they need to be confronted.
Still, an interesting read :).

[Dr Mindbender]

i wish i was there, i wouldve shot down this boneheads crap in a second. You shouldve reminded him that Islamic extremism is a by product of the wests involvement in the islamic world, and more specifically Britain's gerrymandering of Palestine. The muslims didnt sudden take objection to us for no reason; the west wronged them and were pissed off, rightly so i might add. Without the British mandate and the follow up escapades in the middle east by America, there could have been no motive for islamic terrorism.

This ''we've got black and sikh members'' argument doesnt wash with me. Is the way they are demonising muslims really that different from the way the German nazis villified the jews in the 20s? I fully beleive the EDL are, as others have said, a BNP project and fascists through and through. In some way they are more dangerous than the BNP because they succeed in giving islamophobia a respectable face and they deserve no more platform.

In short they can fuck off with their bigoted reactionary venom.

[The Grey Blur]

Muslims are 2.5% of the population of Britain. The extremist Muslims are 0.01% of that amount. Sharia Law is not a threat now or tomorrow it's pretty obvious with the bank bail-outs, corruption and wars that the biggest enemy is the capitalist class. Fair play for standing up to them but brush-up on countering Islamophobic arguments.

[MilitantAnarchist]

See i agree 100% with what your saying, and if EDL are the 21st century C18 for BNP then these guys certainly did know that they were.
I did try to say in their (the Iraqis/Afghan's) eyes, our 'boys' are terrorists to, but arguing that point is difficult when your outnumbered.
Its an argument we all know and going over it again and again doesn't change it so I'm not gonna carry it on here too much, but they are both enemys, but what they (the defence leagues) dont see is that they are more of a threat to the so-called society they want to protect then the Islamic extremists are, they're both ****s in my oppinion. I know the extremists have issues and I'm not debating that, but it wasnt you or me, and vice versa to the EDL side too... Again.. the blaim is at the goverments door, hence my argument, if we could get them to see it... who know's (and again, i dont meen we share a platform, just discuss it a bit with their side)...
Its all pretty damn complicated, I'll say it again, they weren't BNP, well atleast the ones i spoke to weren't.

[Spawn of Stalin]

I spent my May Day with communists but whatever floats your boat mate

[The Gallant Gallstone]

The more people become marginalized and alienated, the more appealing radical parties and organizations will become.

It is inevitable that some people, who would function perfectly well in our sort of revolutionary movements, will instead filter into Right wing organizations based only on local influences. In such cases, talking to individuals may prove to be fruitful.

This where the Right, as MilitantAnarchist indirectly demonstrates, outperforms us on a routine basis. People with a revolutionary spirit but no strong theoretical foundation are drawn to that vital mixture of strength, danger and anger.

It's not for nothing to note that many of the most intractable fascists, such as Mussolini or Goebbels, had socialist or socialist-leaning backgrounds before they made the plunge.

[Lenina Rosenweg]

See i agree 100% with what your saying, and if EDL are the 21st century C18 for BNP then these guys certainly did know that they were.
I did try to say in their (the Iraqis/Afghan's) eyes, our 'boys' are terrorists to, but arguing that point is difficult when your outnumbered.
Its an argument we all know and going over it again and again doesn't change it so I'm not gonna carry it on here too much, but they are both enemys, but what they (the defence leagues) dont see is that they are more of a threat to the so-called society they want to protect then the Islamic extremists are, they're both ****s in my oppinion. I know the extremists have issues and I'm not debating that, but it wasnt you or me, and vice versa to the EDL side too... Again.. the blaim is at the goverments door, hence my argument, if we could get them to see it... who know's (and again, i dont meen we share a platform, just discuss it a bit with their side)...
Its all pretty damn complicated, I'll say it again, they weren't BNP, well atleast the ones i spoke to weren't.

Interesting post.Whatever was in the cider you were drinking seemed to work.It was good to attempt a dialog and diffuse what could have developed into a nasty situation.It takes a lot of courage when there's one of you and a lot of them



pretty obvious with the bank bail-outs, corruption and wars that the biggest enemy is the capitalist class.

The EDL and their ilk doesn't have any analysis of the financial crisis, corruption, the bailouts, Greece, etc. Stormfront doesn't go too far beyond "the Jews did it". Talking about issues like these might be a good way to draw them out and show the importance of working class solidarity.Racism, no matter how its disguised, is just another way of dividing the working class

[RedAnarchist]

Ok... Now it was time to grow some balls 'Thats fucking right mate, Antifa.' I said, proudly, showing him my tattoo, looking the **** square in the eyes and blew smoke in his face (he had a fag on to so it wasn't so extreme).... Then i sat down and rolled another fag... shaking like a shitting dog, but a gulp of cider calmed my nerves...

Verbal warning for using a banned word.

[Sam_b]

Cool, MilitantAnarchist is back with his 'I hate communists, I hate Islamic "fascism"' rants!

[Chambered Word]

OP you could argue the same with the Sturmabteilung, it doesn't change the fact that they're still a proto-fascist movement who should be suppressed at every opportunity. We shouldn't be giving these morons a platform to stand on - at all.

[MilitantAnarchist]

Cool, SamB is here again with ignoring everything i said and picking out little bits that might offend him. I missed you bud :p

...And to the other guy, is it the 'c' word thats a banned word? I do appologise, but when dealing with the enemy i would of thought its pretty acceptable, but you quoted me, therefore drawing attention to it... I suggest you give yourself a verbal warning to make it all fair and square :p)

[Honggweilo]

Here in the Netherlands and Belgium the various factions of Blood&Honour fight on a regular basis. Doesn't mean i'm going to side with the C18 faction against the B&H/Traditional faction now am I?

Or what about the latest nazbol shit from NSA in the hague, they apperantly (out of a out-of-context chauvinistic interpretation of his work) "bombard the headquarters" just as much as us.. cut the nationalism and we can be buddies right :rolleyes:? Just like how the brownshirts we're in essence "misguided" socialists..

But on a more serious note, socialist rethoric and working-class appeal is one of the backbones of fascist populism.

As Ravachol said it is our duty to detract people from incognito populist scapegoating to hide ballant nationalism. the EDL, like most proto-fascist populist movements sprouting up in Europe (like JOBIK, the FPO, Danish Peoples Party, Vlaams Belang and the PVV) tactically distance themselves from historically tained movements by accepting a small number of "colored" people who spill the same racist bile, and trying to cover their fascist tendencies with supporting Isreal. Any rational leftist will combat any form of religious fundamentalism ( see our support of turkish comrades against the AKP/Grey Wolves, solidarity with iranian workers, and our 2 sided battle in Pakistan/Afghanistan against NATO and Taliban warlords). Using religion as a veil to drive an anti-immigrant/racist agenda is just another cover-up. The mean may change, the overal structure stays the same.

These movements, including the EDL, are to fascism as Chavez is to communism (please dont nitpick on that definition, not relevant); not quite, but can easily be tipped in that direction

[MaoTseHelen]

Always appreciate some level-headed leftism, and you deliver.

[the_real_one]

right, whoever is in charge of this forum ban this militant anarchist twat. hes a fucking liar. this never happened to him, hes twisted something that i told him ages ago. reading some of the stuff hes put on this website hes as much a twat here as he is in real life. ive had to get a fucking bus over to my mrs to use her pc. i dont have a computer, and this twat even used her computer when he crashed around hers because his flatmates kicked him out for being a dick. this so called mate of mine, has tried to make himself look like some big hardman, when all he is a fucking nobody. anyone with anything to do with class war has told him to fuck off, no one will touch him, not even searchlight.
to him its a big fucking game twisting shit i've said, but i live a real life and its bringing shit to my door. what really happened that day was nothing worth mentioning, i had a beer with some blokes from edl and that was it. i have my views, they got theirs. this fucker has made it sound totally different, and i would appreciate the blokes who run this site would delete those lies, it isnt some fucking game for me.
and to the militant anarchist (which you aint you fucking labour voteing tosser) you may of moved back to bath but next time you come back to lough you wont find a warm welcome.
and that bullshit about mein kampf, they didnt mention it, i brought it up as an example if i remember, so the nazi accusation made there is crap.

[Lyev]

right, whoever is in charge of this forum ban this militant anarchist twat. hes a fucking liar. this never happened to him, hes twisted something that i told him ages ago. reading some of the stuff hes put on this website hes as much a twat here as he is in real life. ive had to get a fucking bus over to my mrs to use her pc. i dont have a computer, and this twat even used her computer when he crashed around hers because his flatmates kicked him out for being a dick. this so called mate of mine, has tried to make himself look like some big hardman, when all he is a fucking nobody. anyone with anything to do with class war has told him to fuck off, no one will touch him, not even searchlight.
to him its a big fucking game twisting shit i've said, but i live a real life and its bringing shit to my door. what really happened that day was nothing worth mentioning, i had a beer with some blokes from edl and that was it. i have my views, they got theirs. this fucker has made it sound totally different, and i would appreciate the blokes who run this site would delete those lies, it isnt some fucking game for me.
and to the militant anarchist (which you aint you fucking labour voteing tosser) you may of moved back to bath but next time you come back to lough you wont find a warm welcome.
and that bullshit about mein kampf, they didnt mention it, i brought it up as an example if i remember, so the nazi accusation made there is crap.Thanks! :thumbup1:

[Crux]

right, whoever is in charge of this forum ban this militant anarchist twat. hes a fucking liar. this never happened to him, hes twisted something that i told him ages ago. reading some of the stuff hes put on this website hes as much a twat here as he is in real life. ive had to get a fucking bus over to my mrs to use her pc. i dont have a computer, and this twat even used her computer when he crashed around hers because his flatmates kicked him out for being a dick. this so called mate of mine, has tried to make himself look like some big hardman, when all he is a fucking nobody. anyone with anything to do with class war has told him to fuck off, no one will touch him, not even searchlight.
to him its a big fucking game twisting shit i've said, but i live a real life and its bringing shit to my door. what really happened that day was nothing worth mentioning, i had a beer with some blokes from edl and that was it. i have my views, they got theirs. this fucker has made it sound totally different, and i would appreciate the blokes who run this site would delete those lies, it isnt some fucking game for me.
and to the militant anarchist (which you aint you fucking labour voteing tosser) you may of moved back to bath but next time you come back to lough you wont find a warm welcome.
and that bullshit about mein kampf, they didnt mention it, i brought it up as an example if i remember, so the nazi accusation made there is crap.
Don't have beers with EDL, man.

[the_real_one]

i'll have beers with who i want, if i only talked to people who had the same ideas i did i'd have a very quiet life. i just want what this prick has said taken off and replaced with what ive said

[RedAnarchist]

I've edited the OP and banned MA.

[No pasarán]

Don't have beers with EDL, man.

I think if someone is willing to sit down and talk it out with you it is worth trying. The EDL are a reactionary organisation who don't really know what they want other than to make a stand against islamic fundermentalisim. They are not the BNP, the NF, the British Peoples Party, etc... I have no doubt there are some fascists in the organisation and a fair few rascists. But they are not a fascist party. They are a group of workingclass lads who are frustrated, unemployed, in some cases uneducated and don't know how to express their frustrations. So, they choose to try and intimidate the people the media and slightly more subtley the goverment portray as the threat to their society and way of life.

The EDL member who recently came on here said (via pm to me) he respected our views, just didn't think they were realistic. He told me he was intrested in anti capitalism and was frustrated with his lot in life. In the brief time he was on here I was managing to make some progress in showing him what sort of alternatives are out there, while nearly everyone else harresed him and disected everything he said and turned it round into a sarcastic, demeaning attack. So now he's probably had his suspicions about the left confirmed even though he came here to debate and ask questions.

[Crux]

I think if someone is willing to sit down and talk it out with you it is worth trying. The EDL are a reactionary organisation who don't really know what they want other than to make a stand against islamic fundermentalisim. They are not the BNP, the NF, the British Peoples Party, etc... I have no doubt there are some fascists in the organisation and a fair few rascists. But they are not a fascist party. They are a group of workingclass lads who are frustrated, unemployed, in some cases uneducated and don't know how to express their frustrations. So, they choose to try and intimidate the people the media and slightly more subtley the goverment portray as the threat to their society and way of life.

The EDL member who recently came on here said (via pm to me) he respected our views, just didn't think they were realistic. He told me he was intrested in anti capitalism and was frustrated with his lot in life. In the brief time he was on here I was managing to make some progress in showing him what sort of alternatives are out there, while nearly everyone else harresed him and disected everything he said and turned it round into a sarcastic, demeaning attack. So now he's probably had his suspicions about the left confirmed even though he came here to debate and ask questions.
I don't necessarily disagree, and maybe I was too short in my answer, but we should never, ever, make excuses for the EDL.

[No pasarán]

I'm not making excuses for them, but I happen to live in the country they are supposedly 'defending' and I can see how many of them got so caught up in it cos the media they read is telling them "islam is out to get you", plus the usual fear of the unknown. I grew up and still live in very similar conditions to a lot of them so I can see how they formed some of the parinoid ideas about how much of a threat islamic fundermentalisim is. Of course real convinced fascists should never be tolerated in any form. But if someone leaning to the right is willing to talk with you, maybe even learn from you then you shouldn't patronise them or bully them.

I'm a big lad, with a fair bit fighting experince, but my first response to someone telling me they were EDL would not be to headbutt them anymore than it would be to straight out antagonise them or dismiss there views with out offering them an alternative.

[MaoTseHelen]

Why are we believing a newbie with 2 posts over an older member?