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Nolan
4th May 2010, 21:53
Are they revolutionary? According to wiki they're done several suicide bombings so how do they justify that if they do lay claim to Marxism?

zimmerwald1915
4th May 2010, 21:55
who?

Nolan
4th May 2010, 21:56
who?

Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (http://www.pflp.ps/english/).

The Vegan Marxist
5th May 2010, 02:04
Are they revolutionary? According to wiki they're done several suicide bombings so how do they justify that if they do lay claim to Marxism?

When a guerrilla storms a base alone, just him & his rifle, against the enemy, what difference is that with those who strap themselves with explosives & gives their body in order to take many with him? I think the idea of "suicide bombings" are nothing to be against. We've only been shown suicide bombings when it came to people like al Qaeda or the Taliban, & we don't even hear much about real revolutionary groups such as the PFLP. So yes, I would say they are very revolutionary & are practically Palestine's last hope in bringing freedom back to the working class & peasantry. My support goes out to them 100%!

Nolan
5th May 2010, 02:13
When a guerrilla storms a base alone, just him & his rifle, against the enemy, what difference is that with those who strap themselves with explosives & gives their body in order to take many with him? I think the idea of "suicide bombings" are nothing to be against. We've only been shown suicide bombings when it came to people like al Qaeda or the Taliban, & we don't even hear much about real revolutionary groups such as the PFLP. So yes, I would say they are very revolutionary & are practically Palestine's last hope in bringing freedom back to the working class & peasantry. My support goes out to them 100%!

If "suicide bombing" means strapping c4 to themselves then walking to a military checkpoint and detonating it, I can't support such tactics.

The Vegan Marxist
5th May 2010, 02:15
If "suicide bombing" means strapping c4 to themselves then walking to a military checkpoint and detonating it, I can't support such tactics.

Why?

gorillafuck
5th May 2010, 02:19
Why?
It's a horrendous tactic and it is literally suicide that will accomplish absolutely nothing.

The Vegan Marxist
5th May 2010, 02:23
It's a horrendous tactic and it is literally suicide that will accomplish absolutely nothing.

How would it accomplish nothing? If it took out a military crew, with only one casualty, it allows for the rest to occupy & take it over.

Nolan
5th May 2010, 02:25
Why?

Well if its the only way of fighting the Jihadists and the Zionists and its effective then I suppose I can, but no one should ever be pressured into it, they should volunteer.

A Revolutionary Tool
5th May 2010, 02:25
It's a horrendous tactic and it is literally suicide that will accomplish absolutely nothing.
How? You have one casualty and they have many casualties and broken equipment. Now imagine rushing in with just a AK-47. How many more kills do you think you'll get with that?

black magick hustla
5th May 2010, 02:30
I am sure petit-bourgeois ideologues pressing children to strap on bombs to take on a few soldiers that in the grand scheme of things its going to be refilled by another soldier a nice strategy. Its an act of desperation. Atleast with the warsaw uprising, which was doomed to fail and everybody knew it was because they knew they were going to die, so they would rather die sending a few nazis to hell. But as a military tactic it has never worked, ever.

A Revolutionary Tool
5th May 2010, 02:31
Although I'd like to add that I would never put myself up for candidacy for a suicide bombing mission :p. Maybe I would given their circumstances but I'd rather get out alive myself.

The Vegan Marxist
5th May 2010, 02:32
Well if its the only way of fighting the Jihadists and the Zionists and its effective then I suppose I can, but no one should ever be pressured into it, they should volunteer.

Oh no no no, it's not a mandatory thing. Idk how the Taliban works or how al Qaeda works with such, but the PFLP's suicide attacks were through voluntary operations. True martyrs to the cause.

The Vegan Marxist
5th May 2010, 02:34
I am sure petit-bourgeois ideologues pressing children to strap on bombs to take on a few soldiers that in the grand scheme of things its going to be refilled by another soldier a nice strategy. Its an act of desperation. Atleast with the warsaw uprising, which was doomed to fail and everybody knew it was because they knew they were going to die, so they would rather die sending a few nazis to hell. But as a military tactic it has never worked, ever.

I hope you weren't referring to the PFLP on the claim of strapping children with bombs & use them through attacks, because that's never happened! Not with the PFLP that is.

black magick hustla
5th May 2010, 02:35
Since Christ’s coming, we are delivered not from the evil of suffering but from the evil of suffering uselessly”, writes the Jesuit father Charles. How right he is: power’s problem has always been not to abolish itself but to resign itself not to oppress ‘uselessly’. Christianity, that unhealthy therapeutic, pulled off its masterstroke when it married man to suffering, whether on the basis of divine grace or of natural law. From prince to manager, from priest to expert, from father confessor to social worker, it is always the principle of useful suffering and willing sacrifice that forms the most solid base for hierarchical power. Whatever reasons it invokes – a better world, the next world, building communism or fighting communism – suffering willingly accepted is always Christian, always. Today the clerical vermin have given way to the missionaries of a Christ dyed red. Everywhere official pronouncements bear as their watermark the disgusting image of the crucified Christ, everywhere comrades are urged to sport the stupid halo of the militant martyr. And with their blood the kitchen-hands of the Good Cause are mixing up the sausage-meat of the future: less cannon-fodder, more doctrine-fodder!

black magick hustla
5th May 2010, 02:36
I hope you weren't referring to the PFLP on the claim of strapping children with bombs & use them through attacks, because that's never happened! Not with the PFLP that is.

It doesn't matter if they are children or not. Its a bad thing.

gorillafuck
5th May 2010, 02:40
It doesn't matter if they are children or not. Its a bad thing.
You have to acknowledge a considerable difference in sending children to blow themselves up and sending grown adults.

Palestine will never be freed by these sorts of actions, though. IDF soldiers can be replaced the next day with these isolated suicide attacks.

The Vegan Marxist
5th May 2010, 02:40
It doesn't matter if they are children or not. Its a bad thing.

So you'd rather risk a whole unit of comrades, rather than a voluntary action of martyr, in order for the unit to continue on with a better lead?

cb9's_unity
5th May 2010, 02:40
Why?

Why would you support bullshit tactics that are essentially good for nothing but symbolism or terrorism?

I guess we could waste one class-conscious revolutionary in order to blow up shit that will probably be immediately replaced. Suicide bombing does nothing but serve bourgeois propaganda, as it invariably links the cause of the bomber with the fucking suicidal. Thus it is always going to overall benefit bourgeois interests.

A revolutionary is always better dead than alive, because a revolutionary deserves to see the fruits of his/her activity's. Violence should primarily be a tool to defend from bourgeois attacks and to, if necessary, put workers immediately at the head of their respective work places. Martyrdom is the unfortunate side effect of revolution, it is not in any way the primary force that should drive revolution forward.

The Vegan Marxist
5th May 2010, 02:42
You have to acknowledge a considerable difference in sending children to blow themselves up and sending grown adults.

Palestine will never be freed by these sorts of actions, though. IDF soldiers can be replaced the next day with these isolated suicide attacks.

Well wouldn't you agree that I'm sure they don't expect the attacks to free them, but rather help gain more grounds over the IDF soldiers with minimal casualties from their unit?

The Vegan Marxist
5th May 2010, 02:45
Why would you support bullshit tactics that are essentially good for nothing but symbolism or terrorism?

I guess we could waste one class-conscious revolutionary in order to blow up shit that will probably be immediately replaced. Suicide bombing does nothing but serve bourgeois propaganda, as it invariably links the cause of the bomber with the fucking suicidal. Thus it is always going to overall benefit bourgeois interests.

A revolutionary is always better dead than alive, because a revolutionary deserves to see the fruits of his/her activity's. Violence should primarily be a tool to defend from bourgeois attacks and to, if necessary, put workers immediately at the head of their respective work places. Martyrdom is the unfortunate side effect of revolution, it is not in any way the primary force that should drive revolution forward.

symbolism or terrorism? how about taking out a whole unit of IDF soldiers, in order for such grounds to be occupied by the guerrillas, with minimal casualty to their own unit? sounds like a necessary, if volunteered, step to me.

freepalestine
5th May 2010, 15:17
the pflp is a poltical party.

Muzk
5th May 2010, 15:26
the vegan terrorist's support for suicide bombings is ridiculous, fascist, inhuman, idealistic, etc, etc, etc....


his examples are sceneries which arent going to happen anywhere, thats fucking idealistic of him

The Vegan Marxist
5th May 2010, 15:30
the vegan terrorist's support for suicide bombings is ridiculous, fascist, inhuman, idealistic, etc, etc, etc....


his examples are sceneries which arent going to happen anywhere, thats fucking idealistic of him

You're an idiot. If you condemn suicide bombings as a non-legitimate move against a unitized enemy, then you'll get any of your comrades killed. Say you go in strapped with c4, & take out a single unit. It's only you who died, & your unit survives. You've killed the enemy, taken over territory, with minimal casualty to your unit. Why one would condemn such an action, if allowed voluntarily, is beyond me.

Also, how about you fill in those etc's of yours, or maybe because you can't.

Muzk
5th May 2010, 15:32
You're an idiot. If you condemn suicide bombings as a non-legitimate move against a unitized enemy, then you'll get any of your comrades killed. Say you go in strapped with c4, & take out a single unit. It's only you who died, & your unit survives. You've killed the enemy, taken over territory, with minimal casualty to your unit. Why one would condemn such an action, if allowed voluntarily, is beyond me.

Also, how about you fill in those etc's of yours, or maybe because you can't.

more idealistic bullshit... i thought you had a

YEAR LONG STUDY OF MARXISM

The Vegan Marxist
5th May 2010, 15:40
more idealistic bullshit... i thought you had a

YEAR LONG STUDY OF MARXISM

What does this have anything to do with Marxism? We're talking about whether "suicide bombings" could be used as a beneficial attack against the enemy. In which, my argument is yes. How about you stop bullshitting semantics & actually give reason behind your claims.

Saorsa
5th May 2010, 15:58
I think it's up to the comrades in Palestine to work out the tactics they use in the Palestinian revolutionary struggles. I'm not arrogant enough to condemn them from a country where I don't face the same problems.

How is a suicide operation with a belt any morally worse than a suicide operation with one or more guys armed with rifles?


the pflp is a poltical party.

This. The PFLP's military wing is the Abu Ali Mustafah Brigades, named after the late leader who was assassinated by the Israelis.

My party is raising money for the PFLP at the moment by selling t shirts. We've just released a new design with Leila Khaled's signature and face on.

http://www.pflp.ps/english/?q=new-zealand-solidarity-campaign-announces-first-do

freepalestine
5th May 2010, 16:07
this tactic of suicide bombings,is something that some palestinians are against for variey of reasons.although the thread was titled PFLP.it's descended in to talk of suicide bombings.an iranian product from the gulf war with iraq.
the PFLP is a political party

Saorsa
5th May 2010, 16:20
The comrade leading my party's solidarity campaign with the PFLP wrote this in response to someone attacking the PFLP as a nasty terrorist organisation.


Tactics have changed as the struggle has evolved in Palestine.

The Plane Hi-Jackings where an attempt to get the Palestinian Plight onto the world stage, or as Leila Khaled stated "Blow the wax out of the ears of the deaf western liberals". The tactic was a success and it must be remembered that they did not harm anyone during the Hi-Jackings, passengers where taken of the planes and they were then blown up. In the early Seventies this tactic ceased to be used as its purpose was no longer valid according to George Habash, founder and General Secretary of the PFLP up until the year 2000.

The PFLP Leadership has always stated that Suicide Bombing is not a tactic that should be used, this is documented by organisations like the International Red Cross and Amnesty International. That is not to say that younger members during the two Intifadas didn't do this, but again this was specific to the period in which it occured. The initifada, a massive uprising of Palestinian Society against years of oppression at the hands of Israel and its Imperialist backers and a lack of any international action. This manifested in children throwing stones at tanks and the Israeli military, mass demonstations thoughout the Opt, strikes, civil disobedience and the continuation of the armed struggle. The PFLP takes part in all forms of Resistance including union organising, peaceful resistance to the wall, political resistance via elections and they maintain an armed wing, the Abu Ali Mustafa brigades. Named after their General Secretary who was killed when an Israeli gunship fired two rockets into his office in the West Bank. The killing of the Israeli tourism minister Rehavam Ze’evi was a reponse to this assisnation. In particular the PFLP targetted Ze’evi due to his overtly extreme attitude towards Palestinians.

Ze'evi publicly advocated the population transfer of 3.3 million Palestinians from the West Bank and Gaza to Arab nations. According to Ze'evi, this could be accomplished by making the lives of Palestinians so miserable they would relocate, by use of military force during wartime, or through an agreement with Arab nations. After the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait in 1990, Ze'evi advocated the expulsion of Palestinians to the east side of the Jordan River, where they could serve as a human shield should the Iraqi Army seek to attack Israel. In a radio interview in July, 2001, Ze'evi claimed that 180,000 Palestinians worked and lived illegally in Israel, then referred to them as "a cancer" and said that "We should get rid of the ones who are not Israeli citizens the same way you get rid of lice"

In the book Palestine and the Palestinians, a political and social history of Palestine, it states; “in one sense, the PFLP and its leader, Habash, have been the ‘conscience’ of the Palestinian Liberation movement” George Habash, the founder of the PFLP, believed that high ethical and political standards should inspire any political and military action, and in the late 70's it was decided that it should be against Israeli military targets.The fact is that the PFLP are a legitimate political organisation who received approx 40,000 votes in 2006 making them the third largest party behind Fatah and HAMAS. The PFLP holds 50 seats on city councils and is the largest party in the governing city of Ramallah. Currently the PFLP also holds the mayors office in Bethlehem. Since the 1980’s the PFLP has been active in building popular organisations in the fields of health, women’s rights, agriculture and the workers union movement.

We are now over 10 years into a supposed "Peace Process", that is Orwellian in nature as it is peace as defined by America and Israel. The fact is that not one of the crucial issues such as Jerusalem, the Settlements, Water and Resource access, self determination and the right of return for Palestinian refugees has been addressed or ever looks like be addressed. The "Peace Process" is only a means to legitimise Israeli domination, and strengthen American strategic realtionships which secure its access to crucial resources and markets.
In the PFLP’s 6th conference document released in July 2000 it describes the OSLO Peace Process as a, “policy (that) is applying the philosophy of power as a basis for international relations. The foundation of this philosophy is the right of the triumphant to dictate his conditions on the defeated.”

Should the PFLP and the Palestinian people wait for the U.N, the United States, Israel and the international community to do something? As Israel, the Zionist State, continues to attempt to expel Palestinians as it has a biblical right to the ancient kingdoms of Judea and Samaria, from the "Jordan to the Sea". As it creates a racist state that treats its Arab citizens as second class citizens. I think not.


A lot of people "Support Palestinian Self Determination", but interestingly only when Palestinians act in a way that they think is appropriate.


The campaign challenges this contemptous and contradictory position.

freepalestine
5th May 2010, 17:41
The comrade leading my party's solidarity campaign with the PFLP wrote this in response to someone attacking the PFLP as a nasty terrorist organisation.have you link to that article.

Muzk
5th May 2010, 17:52
http://www.indymedia.org.nz/article/78379/pflp-solidarity-campaign-transfers-funds

gorillafuck
5th May 2010, 20:07
the vegan terrorist's support for suicide bombings is ridiculous, fascist, inhuman, idealistic, etc, etc, etc....
I can't believe you actually just called suicide bombings fascist. I think suicide bombing tactics are counter-productive too, but that is one of the most ridiculous characterizations of suicide bombers I've heard.

The Vegan Marxist
5th May 2010, 20:29
I can't believe you actually just called suicide bombings fascist. I think suicide bombing tactics are counter-productive too, but that is one of the most ridiculous characterizations of suicide bombers I've heard.

I think he called me a fascist for believing in such. Either way, they're both illogical notions.

danyboy27
5th May 2010, 20:33
well, i remember long time ago, the japanese tried to take out whole aircraft carrier with suicide soldier, and the result wasnt really what you would call a success.

it was a waste of equipement, men and ressources back then, it still is today.

Not mentionning that doing suicide attack against israeli is useless, they have been refeining mean to counter that during decades of experience.

The Vegan Marxist
5th May 2010, 20:50
well, i remember long time ago, the japanese tried to take out whole aircraft carrier with suicide soldier, and the result wasnt really what you would call a success.

it was a waste of equipement, men and ressources back then, it still is today.

Not mentionning that doing suicide attack against israeli is useless, they have been refeining mean to counter that during decades of experience.

You made a point of back then & of the situation of how it was conducted, but then you made the statement that it still is a waste of such. Well, the PFLP aren't using planes (if that's what the Japanese used to wage a suicidal attack that is) & are using very little resources to conduct such actions. And I don't care how "experienced" the IDF soldiers are. When you have a revolutionary member volunteer to give their body up for a cause, in which will help, not only his own unit, but the revolution as well, those IDF soldiers won't know what hit them.

manic expression
5th May 2010, 20:52
It's not my purpose here to endorse suicide bombings. However, people are forgetting one thing: the Palestinian liberation fighters have always stated that if they could use tanks, warplanes, APC's and the like, they would jump at the opportunity. The problem is that the entire Palestinian nation has been systematically deprived and starved of any resources for decades, so a conventional army is simply out of the question. The Palestinians fight for liberation with the only methods available to them. Palestinians didn't want this situation, but they now have to find a way to get out of it. When brother Malcolm X said "By any means necessary", it wasn't just a slogan.

Barry Lyndon
5th May 2010, 21:14
Liberals demand nothing but Gandhian perfection from people who are fighting for their lives against colonialism while they sit and snipe from positions of safety and comfort. Dictating the methods which occupied people use to resist their oppression is in itself a form of colonialism.
Marxists support the armed resistance of colonized people's, while fully recognizing the horrors that go along with it, like all wars. Especially if one lives in the United States, where you pay taxes that finance the oppression of the Palestinians and so many other people around the world, your internationalist duty is to support their cause in any way you can.
That said, the Palestinians did try to use non-violent forms of resistance in the First Intifada, but few people in the West cared, because non-violent Arabs don't make news. Then so-called progressives act horrified by suicide bombings, which are in large part a result of their failure to end the occupation that their government is supporting.

The Gallant Gallstone
5th May 2010, 21:15
I don't see how inducing your most dedicated people to end their lives to kill a few Israeli kids conscripted into service builds a viable liberation movement. If you're in a genuinely hopeless Masada-style situation, it may be legitimate, but I'd rather have you out agitating people's minds and not their vital organs.

danyboy27
5th May 2010, 21:23
You made a point of back then & of the situation of how it was conducted, but then you made the statement that it still is a waste of such. Well, the PFLP aren't using planes (if that's what the Japanese used to wage a suicidal attack that is) & are using very little resources to conduct such actions. And I don't care how "experienced" the IDF soldiers are. When you have a revolutionary member volunteer to give their body up for a cause, in which will help, not only his own unit, but the revolution as well, those IDF soldiers won't know what hit them.

Well, has i said, for the israeli this is something they expect, they been training their guy for year to deal with this kind of threat.

wich mean, for them, suicide bomber are an obvious threat, and just like every obvious threat countermeasure and methods are put in place to avoid it.

Multiple checkpoint, massive security perimeter, zero tolerance for proximity with the palestinian, all those methods have been put in place to deal with it, and face it, it work.

that why suicide bomber is a bad idea, it dosnt work anymore.

The Vegan Marxist
5th May 2010, 23:51
I don't see how inducing your most dedicated people to end their lives to kill a few Israeli kids conscripted into service builds a viable liberation movement. If you're in a genuinely hopeless Masada-style situation, it may be legitimate, but I'd rather have you out agitating people's minds and not their vital organs.

That's what they've been doing, because the suicide bombings are not a every-day thing. It only takes place in situations where there's really no other choice.

Saorsa
6th May 2010, 02:37
Since when was everyone here a qualified military tactician????

Invincible Summer
6th May 2010, 07:18
Well if its the only way of fighting the Jihadists and the Zionists and its effective then I suppose I can, but no one should ever be pressured into it, they should volunteer.

Suicide bombers and would-be bombers are "pressured into it" by the socio-political situation they find themselves in.


I am sure petit-bourgeois ideologues pressing children to strap on bombs to take on a few soldiers that in the grand scheme of things its going to be refilled by another soldier a nice strategy. Its an act of desperation. Atleast with the warsaw uprising, which was doomed to fail and everybody knew it was because they knew they were going to die, so they would rather die sending a few nazis to hell. But as a military tactic it has never worked, ever.
1) Exactly - it is an act of desperation.
2) No one (here on Revleft and, AFAIK, from organizations that use these tactics) argues that suicide bombing is a highly effective strategy, or one that is solely to be used as a military tactic.


It doesn't matter if they are children or not. Its a bad thing.

How is it "bad?" Why is it any worse than throwing a bomb at the same target? What makes a suicide bombing that much more morally reprehensible?


Why would you support bullshit tactics that are essentially good for nothing but symbolism or terrorism?

Do you support protests and marches? Those are pretty much acts of bullshit symbolism.



I guess we could waste one class-conscious revolutionary in order to blow up shit that will probably be immediately replaced. Suicide bombing does nothing but serve bourgeois propaganda, as it invariably links the cause of the bomber with the fucking suicidal. Thus it is always going to overall benefit bourgeois interests.

Pretty much anything that is against ruling class interests can be twisted to benefit bourgeois interests or be used in bourgeois propaganda. Suicide bombing is definitely more extreme, but I don't see how the image of the Left or anti-imperialist movements can really get any worse.



I'm seeing a disturbing trend here of people gobbling up liberal propaganda and moralisms. Suicide bombers aren't just crazies who are suicidal and want to send their organs flying across a bazaar - why would militant groups hire crazy people? It's not in their self-interest to give a mentally unstable person a bomb. Furthermore, suicide bombing can be seen as basically a very violent expression of revenge and anger towards the target by an oppressed individual/group. The repressed emotions literally explode in a fireball of vengeance.

Read Robert Brym's "Suicide Bombing"

Barry Lyndon
6th May 2010, 15:39
I should add that I categorically condemn suicide bombings or any sort of bombings against civilians, that is always both morally wrong and a counterproductive tactic, regardless of circumstances. Military targets, however, are just fine. This whining about how the soldiers are 'conscripted' is ridiculous. There are Israeli soldiers who refuse to serve in the occupied territories, and have even gone to jail for it. That the vast majority still do serve is because they buy into Jewish chauvinism and anti-Arab racism.

I should remind several comrades here that other national liberation movements have engaged in suicide bombings, but don't seem to elicit the howls of condemnation the Palestinians receive when they do it. The Viet Cong had suicide bombers. So did the FLN in Algeria. The first suicide bomber in the Middle East was a Christian girl in Lebanon in 1980, and the group that has engaged in the most suicide bombings in modern history is the Tamil Tigers in Sri Lanka, who to my knowledge used it against military targets.

Basically the imperialists and their liberal running dogs will codemn anti-imperialist resistance regardless of what form it takes, violent or non-violent. The British demonized Gandhi, with Winston Churchill calling him a "half-naked fakir".
I recall a case in which Human Rights Watch condemned Palestinians for gathering thousands of people as a human shield against an Israeli air strike targeting a Palestinian officials home. HRW immediatly called it a 'war crime'. This is the same organization that took months to come to the conclusion that war crimes were 'probably' committed in the Israeli assault on Gaza, which killed over 300 children.
HRW later came out with the longest human rights report in its history: on Venezuela under Hugo Chavez, but for months refused to issue even a statement about the coup government in Honduras.

The discourse of human rights is constantly used by liberals to support imperialism, Marxists should not fall for it.

blake 3:17
6th May 2010, 21:33
The Palestinian liberation struggle will be achieved through political means, not through military action.

Robocommie
6th May 2010, 21:51
The discourse of human rights is constantly used by liberals to support imperialism, Marxists should not fall for it.

Well said comrade, and it's so important to be said, because names like "Human Rights Watch" seems so unequivocally positive, that it seems counter-intuitive to think of them as being partisan.

It should be noted that Human Rights Watch began as the Helsinki Group, specifically to monitor the Soviet Union. While there's nothing in anyway objectionable to the idea of monitoring the Soviet Union to ensure it respects human rights, it's also pretty clear that this group had a partisan bias from the beginning.

The Vegan Marxist
6th May 2010, 22:15
The Palestinian liberation struggle will be achieved through political means, not through military action.

So you don't want the liberation of the working class in Palestine to be acquired militantly? If so, then I'm sorry, but I seriously doubt we're going to topple the Zionist-State by political means or by speaking out a few Gandhi or MLK quotes to the political leaders of said State.

blake 3:17
7th May 2010, 18:15
I'm not speaking against the Palestinians right to armed self defense. But liberation is not going to come through military resistance. It needs to through broad based non-violent mass action. Given the high levels of unempoyment that Palestinian workers face, their ability to hurt capital is limited.

The PA has been clearly collaborationist. Hamas is effed up for obvious reasons. Left forces in the PLO can exert some degree of leadership, but they are isolated, and are stuck just trying to survive.

The reason the Zionists are so flipped about the BDS campaign is that 1) it can work and 2) it gives the Palestinian cause moral authority. They can't smear us as terrorists.

Rather than romanticizing armed resistance, you could get a whole lot more accomplished by getting involved in the international BDS campaign and exposing Israeli apartheid as the genocidal project that it is. For more on it see: http://bdsmovement.net/

It's tremendously hard work.

The Vegan Marxist
8th May 2010, 04:02
I'm not speaking against the Palestinians right to armed self defense. But liberation is not going to come through military resistance. It needs to through broad based non-violent mass action. Given the high levels of unempoyment that Palestinian workers face, their ability to hurt capital is limited.

The PA has been clearly collaborationist. Hamas is effed up for obvious reasons. Left forces in the PLO can exert some degree of leadership, but they are isolated, and are stuck just trying to survive.

The reason the Zionists are so flipped about the BDS campaign is that 1) it can work and 2) it gives the Palestinian cause moral authority. They can't smear us as terrorists.

Rather than romanticizing armed resistance, you could get a whole lot more accomplished by getting involved in the international BDS campaign and exposing Israeli apartheid as the genocidal project that it is. For more on it see: http://bdsmovement.net/

It's tremendously hard work.

Well, I'm still a major supporter in the armed resistance, PFLP, against the Zionist State, but this BDS campaign is interesting. I'll make sure to keep an eye out more on this movement. Thanks for the info.