Greek Anti-IMF actions

[Black Sheep]

Today there is a strike against the IMF-promoted programme and the austerity one :rolleyes:
Tommorow there is also a general strike.

Today members of CPG hung banners in acropolis

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100504/ap_on_bi_ge/eu_greece_financial_crisis

http://athens.indymedia.org/local/webcast/uploads/15hg5ar.jpg

[the last donut of the night]

Could there be a Greece News thread stickied, just like there's one for Nepal?

[The Inquisitor]

Excellent! :w00t:

[Black Sheep]

Fucking WOW America.
US embassy issued a warning to US citizens visiting our country


U.S. Embassy Athens and U.S. Consulate General Thessaloniki wish to
inform U.S. citizens of large demonstrations and multi-sector strikes
on
May 4th and 5th to protest measures undertaken by the Greek government
in response to the economic crisis. Strikes may occur in the public
transportation sector and marching protesters may pass the Embassy.

While strikes and demonstrations are a regular occurrence in Greece,
they are increasingly frequent and may be called on short notice. The
rallies and marches are generally orderly and lawful, however, even
demonstrations intended to be peaceful can escalate into violence.
Riot
control procedures may include the use of tear gas. U.S. citizens are
urged to avoid the areas of demonstrations, and if they find
themselves
within the vicinity of protests, they should exercise extreme caution
and depart the area as quickly and unobtrusively as possible.

You should keep abreast of news about demonstrations and strikes from
local news sources and hotel security. When there are demonstrations,
you should avoid places where demonstrators frequently congregate,
such
as the Polytechnic University area, Exarchia, Omonia, and Syntagma
Squares in central Athens, and Aristotle Square in Thessaloniki.
Information regarding demonstrations the U.S. Embassy has learned
about
can be found on the Embassy website.

[AK]

Fucking WOW America.
US embassy issued a warning to US citizens visiting our country
That's because we all know commies are American-hating scuambags.

[The Inquisitor]

That's because we all know commies are American-hating scuambags.
^ What he said.
But hopefully all these warnings will just encourage people to go see it for themselves. :)

[S.Artesian]

Fucking WOW America.
US embassy issued a warning to US citizens visiting our country


And I'd like to issue a warning to all those in Greece and elsewhere-- avoid the US embassy like the plague. When dealing with representatives of said embassy wear PPP, proper personal protection, and use PCP, proper class protection, at all times.

[Black Sheep]

Today is the general strike, it's expected that the country will be paralyzed.

[vyborg]

The greek workers are doing marvelous thing but beware nationalism! If we talk about "IMF plan" we are implying is something "foreign enemies" are imposing to Greece. No! The greek bourgeois are at least equally responsible. So let's talk about a capitalism austerity plan created by IMF, EU and greek capitalists

[Black Sheep]

The greek workers are doing marvelous thing but beware nationalism! If we talk about "IMF plan" we are implying is something "foreign enemies" are imposing to Greece. No! The greek bourgeois are at least equally responsible. So let's talk about a capitalism austerity plan created by IMF, EU and greek capitalists
Yeah the 'evil Germans' and now the 'evil IMF'

I just returned from the strike riot ~ the biggest the city i live in has ever seen.Banks and cameras were smashed and painted along the way, pigs were calm and distant.

I don't know yet what's going on in the other cities, i 'll keep it updated.

[AK]

The greek workers are doing marvelous thing but beware nationalism! If we talk about "IMF plan" we are implying is something "foreign enemies" are imposing to Greece. No! The greek bourgeois are at least equally responsible. So let's talk about a capitalism austerity plan created by IMF, EU and greek capitalists
Yes, their hatred and fear of explicitly foreign capitalists reminds me in a way of the Hungarian Jobbik party :blink:
This movement looks ripe to be hijacked by nationalism.
(Oh look, 666 posts :mellow:)

[Black Sheep]

With great pleasure i read in athens indymedia that rallies for solidarity to the greek workers were/are/are going to be held in London,Budapest,Barcelona,Vienna at the greek embassies.

Many thanks comrades!Solidarity. :)

[La Comédie Noire]

Nationalism is a factor, but they seem to be just as pissed off at the rich whom they perceive as tax dodgers.

[vyborg]

Nationalism is a factor, but they seem to be just as pissed off at the rich whom they perceive as tax dodgers.

That's for sure and the analogy wth Jobbik is ridicolous. Still...the clearer a class propaganda is the better

[Black Sheep]

Many banks are burning, all over the country, many many more have been smashed, or their windows/ATM shattered, the riots are huge, some of the biggest (maybe THE) for many many years.

a video at the parliament:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8662117.stm

[Black Sheep]

A view of the people (some of them), sieging the parliament.

http://tv.repubblica.it/dossier/grecia-crisi-economica/atene-assalto-al-parlamento/46621?video

The ministry of economy and the prefercture are burning!

[The Feral Underclass]

It seems to me that there is a very real possibility of this escalating into wide-spread social unrest. The conditions for revolution are drawing ever closer. The more they struggle and fight and the worse the conditions become, if they organise, I could see this progressing further.

[La Comédie Noire]

It seems to me that there is a very real possibility of this escalating into wide-spread social unrest. The conditions for revolution are drawing ever closer. The more they struggle and fight and the worse the conditions become, if they organise, I could see this progressing further.

That's what I've been wondering, if they stop the austerity measures and over throw the government then what next?

[Black Sheep]

Crap, it seems 3 people died - they were in a bank that got molotov'd.
The bank wasn't open btw, it's general strike.
edit: Most of the people in the bank climbed to the 2nd floor, where they got rescued by firemen.The 3 were trapped in the building from the flames.The fire dept found their bodies.
Expect huge provocateurish slander and great emotional reaction to this tragic event.

[vyborg]

I dont think the overthrow of the austerity measures is in agenda for now. But the workers can force them to modify the plan. This would be a victory and the start of a new stage for the greek labour movement

[Black Sheep]

The president of the parliament got informed of the deaths,and announced it to the parliament (he said the cause seems to be molotov coctails).
The parliament is in session right now btw.

[La Comédie Noire]

I dont think the overthrow of the austerity measures is in agenda for now. But the workers can force them to modify the plan. This would be a victory and the start of a new stage for the greek labour movement

What do you think they'd ask for? Alternative cuts, like to the military. Taxing the rich?

Does any Greek organization have a counter proposal? My ignorance of Greek politics is total. :blushing:

[Black Sheep]

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/06/world/europe/06greece.html

[La Comédie Noire]

Sad to hear that Black Sheep. :(


Mr. Papandreou’s reforms, which aim to squeeze savings of 30 billion euros through 2012, include cuts to salaries in Greece’s sprawling public sector, higher taxes on alcohol and cigarettes, and tighter retirement rules. They are part of an effort to clear the way for a 110-billion euro rescue package aimed at preventing the debt-ridden country from defaulting.

Staples of a working class shopping list. I wonder if fine wines and cigars are included in that tax? What about yachts for that matter?

[Wanted Man]

It's sad that people died unnecessarily. I agree with Black Sheep that this can be used by reaction. Hopefully, this will not hold back the strike and other actions.

[AK]

Staples of a working class shopping list. I wonder if fine wines and cigars are included in that tax? What about yachts for that matter?
It doesn't matter. The Bourgeoisie could afford it.

[S.Artesian]

Yes, it's sad that people died. It's always said when people die, except when the people are murderers themselves. The reason for the deaths, and the responsibility is not with the demonstrators. It's with the government, the bourgeoisie, the European Commission, the IMF.

BBC has a video of attempts to storm parliament:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8662117.stm

[Die Neue Zeit]

Many banks are burning, all over the country, many many more have been smashed, or their windows/ATM shattered, the riots are huge, some of the biggest (maybe THE) for many many years.

a video at the parliament:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8662117.stm

In this one instance, I think that direct action by the anarchists against the banks, backed by popular defensive support, sends a very positive message... provided there are no civilian casualties.

However, unlike ultra-lefts, I don't see a revolutionary period in Greece because there is no mass party for protest support to be channeled towards.

[S.Artesian]

Exactly right. If this isn't the moment to physically attack the banks, capital itself, then there never will be such a moment.

[vyborg]

I don't see a revolutionary period in Greece because there is no mass party for protest support to be channeled towards.

well there are at least 3 mass parties in Greece....(Pasok, KKE, SYn), the problem is they are not communist parties...anyway things can change very rapidly

[S.Artesian]

well there are at least 3 mass parties in Greece....(Pasok, KKE, SYn), the problem is they are not communist parties...anyway things can change very rapidly


Quite right. Are their organizations of the rank and file being developed to coordinate strikes, demonstrations-- demands?

[Black Sheep]

Don't jump to conclusions.

Athens indymedia mentions that the bank's doors were locked shut, and that the workers died of asphyxiation bcoz they couldnt get out.
THe bank did not have an emergency exit.And the workers werent supposed to be there.General strike,maybe?
edit:6/5 also, the workers were forced to work on the day of the general strike, under threat of firing them.
Of course i am not defending the act, neither accusing the deceased.

We'll wait and see, we dont know if it's true or if it's made up.

[S.Artesian]

OK. Could be the work of police provocateurs.

[La Comédie Noire]

It doesn't matter. The Bourgeoisie could afford it.

Exactly, the luxuries would probably be a better source of tax revenue.


However, unlike ultra-lefts, I don't see a revolutionary period in Greece because there is no mass party for protest support to be channeled towards.

I think it's a good start that people are to the left of the leftist parties in Greece.

[vyborg]

Quite right. Are their organizations of the rank and file being developed to coordinate strikes, demonstrations-- demands?

They should! I think the main point now is the unity of the workers whatever party they are or voted to smash the bourgeois austerity plan

[Proletarian Ultra]

Crap, it seems 3 people died - they were in a bank that got molotov'd.
The bank wasn't open btw, it's general strike.

Not to be a dick, but WTF were they doing in work at all during a general strike?

Add the 3 scabs to the Angela Merkel death count. I'm sure it will be extensive before this is over.

[Black Sheep]

The deaths have been confirmed by the state prosecutor :(
2 women and a man.

[Proletarian Ultra]

well there are at least 3 mass parties in Greece....(Pasok, KKE, SYn), the problem is they are not communist parties...anyway things can change very rapidly

Four mass parties: you forgot the anarchists (who have provided a damn good sight more leadership on this than KKE.)

Anyway, the Argentines managed to run their president out of the country in a helicopter with a lot less in the way of vanguard leadership.

[rednordman]

Not to be a dick, but WTF were they doing in work at all during a general strike?

Add the 3 scabs to the Angela Merkel death count. I'm sure it will be extensive before this is over.:(They were probably so poor that they couldnt afford to strike. This is something that has always bothered me about what makes people decide to be scabs. What if there intentions are genuine, and are not just sucking up to the buisness owners?

This is something that imo seriously effected the result of mid 1980s miners strike in Britian. People simply ran out of money and resources started to get scarce. You can last like that for a while, but eventually people cave in an give up due to uncertanty. I know that some leftwing groups help out with food and such, but that can only last so long.

[vyborg]

Four mass parties: you forgot the anarchists (who have provided a damn good sight more leadership on this than KKE.)

Anyway, the Argentines managed to run their president out of the country in a helicopter with a lot less in the way of vanguard leadership.

I dont think the anarchists would be happy to be named "a party"...

[Black Sheep]

The owner of that bank (Marfin) is morally fucking responsible.
It was expected that there would be violence and violent stuff in that area where the department of the bank was.
The workers were locked inside the god damn building.

[S.Artesian]

Four mass parties: you forgot the anarchists (who have provided a damn good sight more leadership on this than KKE.)

Anyway, the Argentines managed to run their president out of the country in a helicopter with a lot less in the way of vanguard leadership.

Yes, and the Bolivians ran out 2 presidents... didn't quite seal the deal though, in either case, did it. And we all definitely want to seal this deal and get to unsealing all the other deals.

I'm no vanguardist [at least I hope not]. Revolution is about the class creating its own mediations, its own transitions, about the class uniting itself as a whole, and thus, becoming its own vanguard.

What a blow to the bourgeoisie's "monopoly" and distortion of the legacy of Greece's democracy, if the revolution achieves power. We can move from Greece being the cradle of democracy; to Greece embracing modern socialism.

[Die Neue Zeit]

Don't jump to conclusions.

Athens indymedia mentions that the bank's doors were locked shut, and that the workers died of asphyxiation bcoz they couldnt get out.
THe bank did not have an emergency exit.And the workers werent supposed to be there.General strike,maybe?
Of course i am not defending the act, neither accusing the deceased.

We'll wait and see, we dont know if it's true or if it's made up.

My statement above was dependent upon no casualties arising from the anti-bank "action."

Since there were workers who died, I must retract my support for the acts. :(

[AK]

well there are at least 3 mass parties in Greece....(Pasok, KKE, SYn), the problem is they are not communist parties...anyway things can change very rapidly
Huh? The KKE isn't a communist party...? Someone enlighten me as to just what it is, then.

[vyborg]

Huh? The KKE isn't a communist party...?

As Frank n Furter stated famously....don't judge a book by its cover...

[AK]

As Frank n Furter stated famously....don't judge a book by its cover...
You may have spoken wise words, but you didn't get any closer to answering my question.

[vyborg]

You may have spoken wise words, but you didn't get any closer to answering my question.

The KKE is maybe the only hard stalinist party left in western Europe. They are sectarian, nationalist and abstract in their propaganda. Thei attitude towards the workers of Pasok and SYN is completely wrong. They consider whatever is not controlled by them as rubbish.

This is a pity because they have a lot of very good comrades and the KNE is the biggest youth organization in Greece

[Devrim]

And the workers werent supposed to be there.General strike,maybe?


:(They were probably so poor that they couldnt afford to strike. This is something that has always bothered me about what makes people decide to be scabs. What if there intentions are genuine, and are not just sucking up to the buisness owners?

This is something that imo seriously effected the result of mid 1980s miners strike in Britian. People simply ran out of money and resources started to get scarce. You can last like that for a while, but eventually people cave in an give up due to uncertanty. I know that some leftwing groups help out with food and such, but that can only last so long.

I don't believe that people are so poor they can't afford to strike for one day. As you say in the miners' strike people were forced back to work by lack of money, but there is a huge difference between those who have been on strike for ten months and those who justify not going on strike for one day.

I think that the reasons these people weren't on strike have been made clear though in the statement that worker there gave:


For many days now there has been some complete terrorisation of the bank’s employees in regard to the mobilisations of these days, with the verbal “offer”: you either work, or you get fired.
...Mr. Vgenopoulos personally who explicitly stated that whoever didin’t come to work today [May 5th, a day of a general strike!] should not bother showing up for work tomorrow [as they would get fired]".

To put it simply they were worried about their jobs most workers are at the moment.

I think that a lot of people on here don't really understand what a general strike is. Perhaps with English speakers it is connected to it being so long since there was a general strike in an English speaking country. Most general strikes nowadays are particularly general. The biggest one I ever took part in had about 55% participation. As general strikes go this is pretty high. The so-called 'general strike' we had here in Turkey earlier this year probably didn't even make 5.5%.


Not to be a dick, but WTF were they doing in work at all during a general strike?

Add the 3 scabs to the Angela Merkel death count.People who are working in general strikes are not scabs. If you cross a picket line, you are a scab. You are not a scab if you your workplace doesn't join a movement.

I would imagine that these workers will be on strike today as a bank workers strike has been called to protest about the deaths, and conditions in the banks that led to them.

A strong workers movement appeals to other workers to join it on the basis of solidarity and common class interests. It doesn't divide workers by calling some scabs, and using methods of intimidation.

That is not to say that there aren't times when workers have to do that. We have all been in that situation at some point.

That is not the situation in Greece today.

Devrim

[Black Sheep]

I don't believe that people are so poor they can't afford to strike for one day. As you say in the miners' strike people were forced back to work by lack of money, but there is a huge difference between those who have been on strike for ten months and those who justify not going on strike for one day.
I don't know if they were poor enough.The point is that their employer was clear.
Either you work or you get fired.

[Die Neue Zeit]

Update:
The union of bank workers (OTOE) has declared a strike for tomorrow in response to the death of the three bank workers today. (http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/breaking-news/greek-bank-staff-strike-after-firebomb/story-e6frf7jx-1225862832147) The union puts the blame for the deaths on the bank bosses and the police.


A video of protesters attacking Mr Vgenopoulos (the boss of Marfin) visiting the burned bank, calling him a murderer can be seen here (http://www.zougla.gr/page.ashx?pid=2&aid=131644&cid=4).

Well now that there's mass support that blames the state instead of the anarchists, I retract my retraction. :)

To hell with the Greek banks, police, and safety authorities!

[S.Artesian]

Well now that there's mass support that blames the state instead of the anarchists, I retract my retraction. :)

To hell with the Greek banks, police, and safety authorities!


Perhaps we should learn a lesson and not be quite so quick to join in the finger-pointing and condemnation.

[Honggweilo]

The KKE is maybe the only hard stalinist party left in western Europe. They are sectarian, nationalist and abstract in their propaganda. Thei attitude towards the workers of Pasok and SYN is completely wrong. They consider whatever is not controlled by them as rubbish.

This is a pity because they have a lot of very good comrades and the KNE is the biggest youth organization in Greece

What about the PCP in portugal, AKEL in Cyprus, WPB in Belgium, KCSM in the Czech Republic?

[Wanted Man]

Just soft line stalinists? :p

It's also pretty unusual to place Greece in "western Europe"...

[Devrim]

It's also pretty unusual to place Greece in "western Europe"...

I suppose it depends where you are looking from. It is West to me. ;)

Seriously I think it is more of a political definition with it being one of the 'old' EU countries.

Devrim

[vyborg]

What about the PCP in portugal, AKEL in Cyprus, WPB in Belgium, KCSM in the Czech Republic?

Akel is a significant party as the PCP but they are not as stalinist as the KKE. WPB is very small. Czech Republic is a former stalinist dictatorhip. Greece never was,

Greece is a western country of course, It is not a geografical but a political point

[Honggweilo]

PCP but they are not as stalinist as the KKEAs a hardline half portugese "stalinist", who has both alot of friends and family in that party, i would beg to differ :lol:. See the role of the PCP in the carnation revolution and the revolutionary PREC period (http://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/PREC). The only major difference between the PCP and KKE is their social-cultural perspective, in which the PCP is much more "new left" (i.e LGTB rights, drug policy, anti-clericalism, cultural issues, class-based green politics, which also stems from their anarcho-syndicalist roots). On ideology (ie tankie politics, the upholding of the positive aspects of the history of the communist movement, including the USSR under stalin, anti-revisionism ,their mass-line, domination of trade-unions, ect) and tactics they are identical, and also both the driving factors behind the IMCWP forum.

As for the KSCM, what does the "stalinist dictatorship" has to do with anything? according to that logic there should be major communist parties in the whole of eastern europe anno 2010. The positive image socialism had on CP's in countries who already had major communist movements before the start of the cold war, and who practically liberated themselves (i.e the Balkan, Germany, Czechoslovakia) has more to do with the role of those parties after the velvet counter-revolutions. These parties prevented their parties and achievements to be completely be desintigraded of pacified just like the PCP and KKE in the face of reformism under the banner of eurocommunism.

Also the Workers Party of Belgium may be small in parlementary ellections (which is also inherent to the belgian ellectoral system) its has major influence in trade-unions, student movements and the international communist movement. Never measure a political party by its ellectoral succes in bourgeois democratic ellections, but on its grassroot basis.

[cyu]

That's because we all know commies are American-hating scuambags.

Reminds me of this from http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/CIAtimeline.html

1947
Greece — President Truman requests military aid to Greece to support right-wing forces fighting communist rebels. For the rest of the Cold War, Washington and the CIA will back notorious Greek leaders with deplorable human rights records.

1965
Greece — With the CIA’s backing, the king removes George Papandreous as prime minister. Papandreous has failed to vigorously support U.S. interests in Greece.

1967
Greece — A CIA-backed military coup overthrows the government two days before the elections. The favorite to win was George Papandreous, the liberal candidate. During the next six years, the "reign of the colonels" — backed by the CIA — will usher in the widespread use of torture and murder against political opponents. When a Greek ambassador objects to President Johnson about U.S. plans for Cypress, Johnson tells him: "Fuck your parliament and your constitution."

[Omi]

Well now that there's mass support that blames the state instead of the anarchists, I retract my retraction. :)

To hell with the Greek banks, police, and safety authorities!


Dude, that's some serious populist sentiment you've got going on there. Why does it matter if there is mass support to support certain actions? Do we support capitalism just because right now it favours mass support in western countries? How is the condemnation or support of certain actions subject to this kind of bandwagon approach?

[Chambered Word]

Well now that there's mass support that blames the state instead of the anarchists, I retract my retraction. :)

To hell with the Greek banks, police, and safety authorities!

I'm not a big fan of burning shit for the sake of burning shit alone - as fun as it might be - but from what I was told by my comrades the building hadn't even been approved by the fire department (probably due to the state cutting corners) and the boss had threatened all of the workers with being fired. So it's hard to shoulder most of the blame on rioters.

Do the anarchists think before they burn things, though?

[Zanthorus]

Do the anarchists think before they burn things, though?

Are we actually certain that it was anarchists who caused this? If not it might be good for some Comrades to stop jumping automatically to conclusions.

[Qayin]

Do the anarchists think before they burn things, though?
They want to change things now and have a fiery passion that burns in there hearts.