Historical Self Criticism.

[Buddha Samurai Cadre]

I am mostly influenced by Mao and by Leninist politics, i am i have to admit, the most read or well pronounced guy, but i was never one to think a man should be taken less serious for that.

Anyway here is my criticism of Leninist/ Maoist history.

We should fully denounce stalins anti gay stance, not make excuses, we dont do that for racists.

The great leap forward, while weather factored in this, the Maoist government was also to blame, officials wouldnt report the faliures as they thought it would lead to their death, dosent say much for us does it.

Political repression of Anarchists and Trotskyites, while i disagree with them, the acts like Ho chi handing trotskyists over to the pigs, and the murder of Trotsky were wrong and unjust.

We all denounce prison in general and its horrific conditions, yet the gulag was worse than the maze, sanQ or any other prison.

Most importantly, the party elite have corrupted and lived in far higher standards, as che said do the russian proletariat use fancy porcelin

[Buddha Samurai Cadre]

Add your own and get rid of the defensive attitudes alot of us have.
We must accept our mistakes, we made a few, along with many succesfull things, we shouldnt shy away from revolutionary criticism.

[bcbm]

i think we should stop talking about what happened in a bunch of failed socialist states.

[Buddha Samurai Cadre]

Why shit on my thread mate, that aint very nice is it.

[bcbm]

i'm not shitting on your thread, i am absolutely serious. every issue you raise has been talked to death on this forum, to say nothing of the various leftists rags over the past few decades. stalin's stance on gays and all of these other non-issues that most people stopped caring about ages ago have absolutely nothing to do with bringing down capitalism and, really, nothing to do with leftist politics in general. i think a lot of the left would do good to drop the historical re-enactment crap and start trying to relate to the world as it exists in 2010, not 1917/36/68/89.

[Buddha Samurai Cadre]

The reason i thought this might be helthy is to ease animosity between sects on this site, but fuck it youve ruined it.

Mod just thrash it please

Us brits might be imperialist capitalist arseholes, but we dont like rude people :).

[bcbm]

i think relegating stupid arguments from the past to the past and developing a coherent strategy forward would ease more animosity than having another tussle in the dustbin of history.

and i haven't been rude. my post was completely on the topic. i think looking at history is important, but i think we need to jettison this sort of "scorecard" view where we support this, denounce that, etc. things happened and we need to learn from them in order to improve our current strategy, not stake out positions on them.

[Invincible Summer]

The reason i thought this might be helthy is to ease animosity between sects on this site, but fuck it youve ruined it.

Mod just thrash it please

Us brits might be imperialist capitalist arseholes, but we dont like rude people :).

I've noticed that all your posts are really narcissistic in a "Hey this is MY thread! Listen to MEEEE!!! Answer MEEEE!!" way. You're new, and there are a lot of posts and debates over the very issues you brought up. So when a poster with wayyy more posts than you tells you that your thread is redundant, it's not necessarily "rude."

I appreciate your intent, but as opposed to "easing animosity," you'll just bring up a shitstorm, to be honest.

[Buddha Samurai Cadre]

I dont careif someone has a million posts, if they act like knobs i will call them on it, reason being, alot of internet badasses are snivelling weasles in real life and would risk getting a thump by acting that way at a political meeting.

Yet on the net they treat you with no respect, think they can derail topics and just act like total assholes.

It has nothing to do with politics, its a matter of being decent enough not to destroy peoples discussion when they want to learn.

And as for wanting people to look at me, if i wanted that id walk down the m6 with my cock out, not come on an internet forum with fellow social recluses to plot the overthrow of our respective governments.

GAOOD DAY.

[bcbm]

how is posting a political response to political questions "acting like a knob," let alone being any sort of "internet badass?"

[Buddha Samurai Cadre]

You didnt, you made a statement saying my question was not important, if thats the case, just dont comment, but dont type winey shit on my threads please, and you aint a net badass as far as i can tell, but other people i have said the same shit too have been, and when ive called them on it, ive gotten 4 or 5 thanks off people, so its not just me pissed off with this shit.

[bcbm]

i was offering my opinion on the topic. if you disagree, you could suggest some reasons why, instead of calling me a knob and a whiner.

[which doctor]

I think history is a really important thing to study, but of course these documents shouldn't be read as blueprints. We can't go back to the past, but we also can't escape it. If you have committed politics, you can probably trace an historical lineage of influences through them, and this is something people need to interrogate about themselves. This is especially true for people educated in political parties with party lines. And in general, the left hasn't been able to keep up with the pace of history, which results in people with politics that don't match the present.

If I could paraphrase Marx, the tradition of all dead generations weighs like a nightmare upon the brains of the living. These nightmares aren't just to be cast off, but if I could continue the dream metaphor, we need to psychoanalyze them.

It can be slightly ludicrous though when people continue to have the same arguments people have been having for decades, and the answer usually ends up with what side of the barricade you would have been on. Stalinists are probably the worst when it comes to this, though Trotskyists are guilty too; old habits die hard.

[Invincible Summer]

I dont careif someone has a million posts, if they act like knobs i will call them on it, reason being, alot of internet badasses are snivelling weasles in real life and would risk getting a thump by acting that way at a political meeting.

Yet on the net they treat you with no respect, think they can derail topics and just act like total assholes.

It has nothing to do with politics, its a matter of being decent enough not to destroy peoples discussion when they want to learn.

If you're that offended by slight off-topicness on a forum, then you're obviously new to the internet. Also, if you're THAT desperate to know things, the internet is a huge place and I'm sure you can find what you're looking for.

Be patient, and your answer will come. Furthermore, just because someone doesn't answer your question directly doesn't mean they are purposefully trying to derail you or inhibit your learning.



And as for wanting people to look at me, if i wanted that id walk down the m6 with my cock out, not come on an internet forum with fellow social recluses to plot the overthrow of our respective governments.

GAOOD DAY.

Well, when you whine about things going off topic you come off like an immature kid who just wants the whole thread they started to be about them.



To be on-topic, again I think that these issues will always be subjective and there will always be people who will agree/disagree on the PRC/USSR/what have you. There are some people who will uncritically praise everything that any communist movement has done, but most people are level-headed and balance the good and bad things, as well as sift out bullshit anti-Commie propaganda.

I think attempting to create a united basis for all communists to agree on is damn near impossible, and bringing up old business doesn't help at all.

[Buddha Samurai Cadre]

Just dont post stuff calling a thread useless, only make input positively, you dont have to agree, but dont kill a question

Also ive made many posts saying we need to stop looking in the past and talking bout mao and stalin.

This thread was to use self criticism to avoid the mistakes in the future and stop animosity, if you didnt apreciate that fine, just dont comment.

Anyway im not that bothered now, its just annoying when one liners sink your thread.

[Invincible Summer]

Just dont post stuff calling a thread useless, only make input positively, you dont have to agree, but dont kill a question

...

if you didnt apreciate that fine, just dont comment.

Forums are for debate, not just agreeing w/ each other.



This thread was to use self criticism to avoid the mistakes in the future and stop animosity,
I get that. At the same time, I don't think anyone realistically will try and re-create exactly what Stalin or Mao did in their respective positions, so being aware and acknowledging mistakes made doesn't really seem to have any bearing on the future of the communist movement.


Anyway im not that bothered now, its just annoying when one liners sink your thread.
Shame that you see it that way though... you should just let the thread ride out and see where it goes and not jump to the conclusion that the thread is sunk after one "bad" post.