Revolutionary Right?

[What Would Durruti Do?]

Just wondering, does anyone here consider themselves a right-wing revolutionary? I would suspect they would be anarcho-capitalists or individualist anarchists or something along those lines. People who are anti-state or want a completely new restructuring of the state?

Would populist militias or movements like the American Militia Movement or the Oath Keepers be considered right-wing revolutionaries?

Also, is there a tactical divide among the ideology you follow as far as reformists/revolutionaries go similar to the left?

Finally, when do you believe violence against the state to be warranted? When do you believe is the time to stage an uprising?

Thanks for the answers!

[Bud Struggle]

If you listen to people like Laura Ingram and watch the Fox network they talk about Revolution alot--as a matter of fact they mention it a lot more than it's mentioned on RevLeft. Taxpayer Revolution, Gunowner's Revolution, Propertyowner's Revolution, etc.

Interesting point--they are FOR the current American system. They just want to drive out the Socialist elements that have "taken it hostage" over the last several decades. They want a Revolution that brings back the original american Revolution.

Personally I don't believe there ever will be another Revolution (one of the many reasons for my exhalted status as a member of OI) but these guys receive A LOT more press than the Left ever has--and it's for the most part all positive.

[Robert]

Personally I don't believe there ever will be another Revolution (one of the many reasons for my exhalted status as a member of OI) but these guys receive A LOT more press than the Left ever has--and it's for the most part all positive. I agree there will not be, in the USA anyway, any major revolution in our lifetime. There will likely be continual organization, cooperation and sporadic agitation among separatist militia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Militia_movement) movements, active from Mississippi to Michigan and Washington to Florida.

They are all anti-communist, serious, and armed. They are few in number (under 100k total), but how many communists are there?

They have the potential to control there own little geographical areas, and then only in the event of something really catastrophically disruptive of federal power. A few events come to mind, but I don't want to talk about it.

I have gotten the impression that the Left in the USA is largely urban, intellectual, and ... un-armed. While Revlefters debate the finer points of mutualism and tell jokes about "the Miseans," (how many Miseans are there?) Stormfronters are doing pushups, running windsprints, building generators, and cleaning their rifles.


Just wondering, does anyone here consider themselves a right-wing revolutionary?

I don't see how this would be possible on Revleft. Any one calling himself that would probably qualify as a "fascist" and be banned.

[Dimentio]

There was a group in the 1920's which labelled themselves "The Conservative Revolution"

Conservative revolutionaries were a group of German intellectuals and former great war vets who saw militarism as a way to unite anti-capitalist reactionaries (nobility, military, religious leaders) with anti-capitalist progressives (workers and peasants) in a sort of "anti-imperialist" German struggle against the UK and France. Some of these groups advocated an alliance with rebel movements in India and Morocco, or the Soviet Union.

Most of the conservative revolutionaries were either converted to nazism, forced to stop their political life, exiled or killed. Most known amongst them was a guy named Ernst Jünger.

As for the American militia movement. The reason behind its conception is obviously the Civil Rights Act of 1964. First when blacks got equal access to the social welfare systems and the work-place, anti-federalism became fashionable.

[What Would Durruti Do?]

I don't see how this would be possible on Revleft. Any one calling himself that would probably qualify as a "fascist" and be banned.

Wouldn't anarcho-capitalists, market anarchists, individualist anarchists, etc be considered part of the revolutionary right though? They are all anti-state (being anarchist) so therefore they must advocate revolution.

I don't think anyone here considers right-wing anarchists to be fascists.

[#FF0000]

Wouldn't anarcho-capitalists, market anarchists, individualist anarchists, etc be considered part of the revolutionary right though? They are all anti-state (being anarchist) so therefore they must advocate revolution.

I don't think anyone here considers right-wing anarchists to be fascists.

No, anarcho-capitalists are of the opinion that if people stop believing in government, it will go away.

I'm not fucking kidding.

[Left-Reasoning]

A revolutionary Right is a contradiction in terms.

[Os Cangaceiros]

I have gotten the impression that the Left in the USA is largely urban, intellectual, and ... un-armed. While Revlefters debate the finer points of mutualism and tell jokes about "the Miseans," (how many Miseans are there?) Stormfronters are doing pushups, running windsprints, building generators, and cleaning their rifles.

Stormfront is a joke.

There are some very dangerous skinheads/neo-nazis/what-have-you who are serious about what they do, but I highly doubt that most (if any) of them post on Stormfront.

[What Would Durruti Do?]

No, anarcho-capitalists are of the opinion that if people stop believing in government, it will go away.

I'm not fucking kidding.

This is my understanding too, but I made this thread to start a debate about that. :p

Looks like none of them will take my bait.

[Left-Reasoning]

Wouldn't anarcho-capitalists, market anarchists, individualist anarchists, etc be considered part of the revolutionary right though?

"Anarcho"-capitalists aren't anarchists and individual anarchists are emphatically NOT Rightist.

Here are a list of market anarchists:
Pierre-Joseph Proudhon
Josiah Warren
Stephen Pearl Andrews
Ezra Heywood
Anselme Bellegarrigue
Lysander Spooner
Benjamin Tucker
Francis D. Tandy
John Henry Mackay
Voltairine de Cleyre (early)
Franz Oppenheimer

You can decide for yourself whether they are "Rightist".

[Bud Struggle]

Stormfront is a joke.

There are some very dangerous skinheads/neo-nazis/what-have-you who are serious about what they do, but I highly doubt that most (if any) of them post on Stormfront.

As much as joke as a 1500 RevLefters with 2000 Tendancies that are planning to overthrow the world order and set up Communism?

Comrade--we need a plan.


No, anarcho-capitalists are of the opinion that if people stop believing in government, it will go away.

I'm not fucking kidding. Don't Comminist believe that after the Revolution government will go away, too?

[Os Cangaceiros]

As much as joke as a 1500 RevLefters with 2000 Tendancies that are planning to overthrow the world order and set up Communism?

I don't view this website as a mass political movement in the making.

[Robert]

I don't view this website as a mass political movement in the making.

Eh? It's just a forum. If you mean the leftists here aren't making a lot of headway/inroads, you're probably right. If you mean the leftists here aren't really trying to get some political momentum going via the inculcation of class consciousness, I think they're doing a great job.

And it's as good a "place" for them to "meet" as any.

What movement or organization do you take seriously, if any? I think Democrats and Republicans are serious. There are elements of "The Tea Party" that I think are serious, though The Tea Party Patriots (http://teapartypatriots.ning.com/) are the only ones who have actually organized, to my knowledge. They really don't claim to be anything other thana pressure group for reform within the existing system:

Mission Statement
The impetuses for the Tea Party movement are excessive government spending and taxation. Our mission is to attract, educate, organize, and mobilize our fellow citizens to secure public policy consistent with our three core values of Fiscal Responsibility, Constitutionally Limited Government and Free Markets.


That actually looks like basic American Libertarianism, doesn't it?

[Bud Struggle]

I don't view this website as a mass political movement in the making.

Hard to argue there-----but why not?

La la la la--la la la la la la la.
La la la la--la la la la la la la.

That's us. :)

[#FF0000]

Don't Comminist believe that after the Revolution government will go away, too?

Yeah, after an open struggle, and a long period of time where the means of productions are improved to the point that people's needs and desires can be met almost entirely, in which case the state, which is born entirely out of class struggle, will no longer need to exist.

Whether you think that's true or not, anarcho-capitalists believe that if people just don't listen to what the gov't says and ignores it, it will just disappear.

[Robert]

Yeah, after an open struggle, and a long period of time where the means of productions are improved to the point that people's needs and desires can be met almost entirely, in which case the state, which is born entirely out of class struggle, will no longer need to exist.

I admit I never heard an ancap explain how we go about eliminating the pesky state, but don't they contemplate something a little more concrete than ignoring it?

Like this: http://www.ozarkia.net/bill/anarchism/faq.html18. How might an anarcho-capitalist society be achieved?

There is no consensus among anarcho-capitalists how a free society might be achieved. Everyone agrees that educating other people is useful. Beyond that, there are many strategies. There are Gulchers (named after the fictional "Galt's Gulch" in Ayn Rand's book "Atlas Shrugged") such as the Laissez Faire City bunch, who see little or no chance in changing an entrenched welfare-warfare State. These "retreatists" propose to set up isolated communities away from statist authority.

PTs (permanent tourists, perpetual travelers, prior tax-payers) try to maintain tourist status in all States they traverse, paying no taxes and keeping wealth effectively beyond the reach of grasping States.



Virtually all anarcho-capitalists see the transition to a free society to be evolutionary rather than revolutionary. Some see little to do about proximate politics, and simply wait for the inevitable decline of statism while trying to "stay beneath the radar" of government. Anarcho-capitalists are, of course, ardent supporters of tax resistence. Many strive to support "counter-economic" activity, i.e. the illegal ("black") market, which they see as the only truly free market. (Agorism.) Many achieve an "off the books" income where no tribute is paid to the State.

I don't think any of the above is any nuttier than some of the scenarios I've seen around here.

[joesub007]

Stormfronters are doing pushups, running windsprints, building generators, and cleaning their rifles

Hah! you've got to be kidding me. Pushups, rifles and small rudimentary generators vs. the industrial/scientific capacity of a modern state?

Are you trying to make a joke? Nevermind that these guys wouldn't get far militarily against a highly organized force with modern equipment like the police or army, it's like trying to convince the general population to trade in their modern consumer lifestyles in favor of living in a simple wooden shack like Ted Kaczynski all for the sake of "personal freedom". :lol:

You know as hard, alienating, frustrating and uninspiring work is under Capitalism, the consumer goods sold in return for being made nothing more than an expendable tool by the bosses makes up for the even worse lifestyle of living in the bushes with nothing more than four wooden walls to stare at all day and sustenance hunting/gathering as a substitute for modern work.

The right wingers need to do a lot better than that for most people to give up the cities.

[Robert]

Pushups, rifles and small rudimentary generators vs. the industrial/scientific capacity of a modern state?

Of course not. But compare them to the survival capacity of urban leftist intellectuals, and it seems a much closer match.

[black magick hustla]

The fascists considered themselves a revolutionary movement:

"Let us have a dagger between our teeth, a bomb in our hands and an infinite scorn in our hearts. " - Mussoulini

[GPDP]

Yeah, the only right-wingers that could be considered "revolutionary" in the loosest sense of the word would be the fascists.

Ancaps and the like tend to be pacifists who stress educating everyone about the benefits of the free market and the evils of government and the state, so there's not much revolutionary potential there. Their strategy basically boils down to dropping out of the system and getting the mass of the population (or only the capitalists if you're an Objectivist with dreams of "going Galt") to follow. In other words, when everyone is an ancap, we'll have ancapism.

The right-wing militia gun-nuts, on the other hand, while not pacifists, generally tend to be patriots wedded to the Constitution, and thus are hardly revolutionaries in that respect. I'm sure a few of the crazier ones wouldn't mind breaking into armed revolt against the gubment, but for the most part they respect the system at its most fundamental level, just not its perceived degeneration from the idyllic limited government of centuries past.

[Argument]

Individualist anarchism is not right-wing. What made you think that?

[Zanthorus]

There are links between individualist anarchism and anarcho-capitalism. Rothbard got a lot of his impetus from them although he rejected their anti-capitalism and the mutual bank idea as being "economic quackery".

[Bud Struggle]

New SPLC Report: "Patriot" Groups, Militias Surge in Number in Past Year

MONTGOMERY, Ala. - The number of extremist groups in the United States exploded in 2009 as militias and other groups steeped in wild, antigovernment conspiracy theories exploited populist anger across the country and infiltrated the mainstream, according to a report (http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/intelligence-report/browse-all-issues/2010/spring/rage-on-the-right) issued today by the Southern Poverty Law Center (SPLC).

Antigovernment "Patriot" groups - militias and other extremist organizations that see the federal government as their enemy - came roaring back to life over the past year after more than a decade out of the limelight.

The SPLC documented a 244 percent increase in the number of active Patriot groups (http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/intelligence-report/browse-all-issues/2010/spring/active-patriot-groups-in-the-united-s) in 2009. Their numbers grew from 149 groups in 2008 to 512 groups in 2009, an astonishing addition of 363 new groups in a single year. Militias - the paramilitary arm of the Patriot movement - were a major part of the increase, growing from 42 militias in 2008 to 127 in 2009.

http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/news/splc-report-number-of-patriot-groups-militias-surges-by-244-in-past-year

Well according to the SPLC there's something pretty big going on out there.

[Comrade Anarchist]

Anarcho-Capitalists are not to be mixed up with right. We are anarchists and the governments usually work on a left to right scale and anarchists can be placed on either side. Ancaps are just individualist anarchists, and individualist anarchists really don't belong to either side.

I, an ancap, believe that militias are really just neo-conservatives which are right wing stalinists and very much an antithesis to the liberty i seek.

Within the ancap movement we are revolutionary mainly, but within the larger libertarian movement it separates into anarchist or minarchist and actually in 2006 the anarchists were expelled from the libertarian party so yes there are divides.

Now action must be taken against the state. But we don't just grab guns and start shooting, if we have the majority of the people then if you ignore the state the state loses power over you. If we have the majority and still can't just ignore the state than we go to MLK Jr tactics and act peacefully. And if finally that doesn't work than full blown revolution to overthrow the oppressors is warranted. As to when this revolution should happen i would say roughly over 5000 years ago when the first city states started to appear.

[Foldered]

I saw this thread title and immediately thought "I hope not!"

[Crunkenstein]

I consider Marxism Leninism (Stalinism) and MLM as right-wing ideologies. So yes, there's your revolutionary right.

[Left-Reasoning]

I consider Marxism Leninism (Stalinism) and MLM as right-wing ideologies. So yes, there's your revolutionary right.

Burned!

[Bud Struggle]

It's pretty obvious that Left/Right pardigm really lost it meaning in this thread. I have no criticism of that--some of these concepts take more than a simple place on a sliding scale.

[Grozny]

As for the American militia movement. The reason behind its conception is obviously the Civil Rights Act of 1964. First when blacks got equal access to the social welfare systems and the work-place, anti-federalism became fashionable.

The principle issue and, for most militia members, the only issue, is affirmative action.


Hah! you've got to be kidding me. Pushups, rifles and small rudimentary generators vs. the industrial/scientific capacity of a modern state?

Google "Sniper Flash Cards"

[Skooma Addict]

It's pretty obvious that Left/Right pardigm really lost it meaning in this thread. I have no criticism of that--some of these concepts take more than a simple place on a sliding scale.

I find no use in the left/right paradigm at all.

[What Would Durruti Do?]

"Anarcho"-capitalists aren't anarchists

I have a feeling an ancap would disagree.


I find no use in the left/right paradigm at all.

When I use the left-right scale I'm using it economically (left = collectivist, right = neoliberal/capitalist)

but it probably varies for different people.

[Nolan]

if we have the majority of the people then if you ignore the state the state loses power over you.

lol!

[Nolan]

The right is incapable of being revolutionary. It is only capable of taking us backwards in some form or another, even if it is in a "revolution." (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iranian_Revolution)

[Argument]

There are links between individualist anarchism and anarcho-capitalism.Yes, but it's the anarcho-capitalists who were inspired by individualist anarchism, not the other way around. If, say, national socialism was inspired by marxism*, does that mean that marxism is right-wing? No, of course not. Just because anarcho-capitalism was inspired by individualist anarchism doesn't mean that individualist anarchism is right-wing.

*I'm aware that it wasn't, but I'm making an example.

[#FF0000]

I consider Marxism Leninism (Stalinism) and MLM as right-wing ideologies. So yes, there's your revolutionary right.

Welp, that's because you're a big dummy.

[Dean]

Burned!

Burned by somebody conflating Leninism with Stalinism? Pretty weak, hoss.

[anticap]

Anarcho-Capitalists ... are anarchists

No (http://anarchism.pageabode.com/anarcho/an-anarchist-critique-of-anarcho-statism) they're (http://anarchism.pageabode.com/afaq/secFcon.html) not (http://anarchism.pageabode.com/afaq/append1.html).



"Anarcho"-capitalists aren't anarchists

I have a feeling an ancap would disagree.

Vehemently! But that wouldn't alter the state of reality.