Would Pakistan and Afghanistan be better off had they been Soviet republics?

[Cheung Mo]

When one looks at the literacy rates of nations with a Muslim plurality or majority, one interesting fact comes to light: only six have universal literacy and relative gender equality. What all six have in common as that they were once part of the Soviet Union. Pakistan and Afghanistan, which are both in close proximity to these former Soviet Republics (Afghanistan border a few of them and Pakistan doesn't but comes pretty damn close), have the lowest literacy rates and the most repressed female population of any Muslim nations that are not in Sub-Saharan Africa. Both Pakistan and Afghanistan have been "governed" by different configurations of feudalists, military thugs, kleptocrats and religious extremists (most of which have had the open or tacit support of the West and of the PRC) who have failed their people so miserably that even Khomeini, betrayer of Iran's leftist revolution and butcher of 100,000 socialists, starts to look good.

[Nolan]

I'd say yes. Socialism had a huge positive impact in many areas of society. For example, secularism and atheism are more common in formerly socialist countries.

[Die Neue Zeit]

If Mongolia didn't become part of the Soviet Union, how much more so for Pakistan and Afghanistan.

[khad]

Not Soviet republics, but socialist ones yes. If the USA/Pakistan/China hadn't given that cult of pederasts guns, missiles, and training, they would have been crushed in a year and Afghanistan could have marched along the path to socialism.

And for those of you who might complain about the supposed authoritarianism of the PDPA, I should reiterate that the country was an ethno-chauvinist monarchy until 1973, and even then the nationalist Daoud Khan was a member of the royal family. Just the fact that the PDPA was creating a multi-ethnic republic and providing education and social advancement to common people was an unprecedented step in Afghan history.

[Cheung Mo]

Brezhnev's authoritarianism is much less scary than far-right freaks like General ul-Haq and most Mujahideen factions.

It's better for any society to send reactionary fathers to the gulag for denying their daughters an education than it is to summarily executed feminists, liberals, and Marxists.

[danyboy27]

Brezhnev's authoritarianism is much less scary than far-right freaks like General ul-Haq and most Mujahideen factions.

It's better for any society to send reactionary fathers to the gulag for denying their daughters an education than it is to summarily executed feminists, liberals, and Marxists.

authoritatism is bullshit, no matter where its coming from.

[#FF0000]

authoritatism is bullshit, no matter where its coming from.

Yeah but it's kind of plain that Afghanistan was better off with their gov't before the Mujahideen

[zubovskyblvd]

I've always been very interested in the socialist period of Afghanistan with the PDPA in charge, but I've never found any decent books on it (most focus explicitly on the war, with very little mention of the actual politics of the country). Can anyone point me towards any reading?

[danyboy27]

Yeah but it's kind of plain that Afghanistan was better off with their gov't before the Mujahideen
with the soviet pumping million into their infrastructure? yes of course they had better alimentation, life expectency and all that.

i am not questionning that. Authoritarian regime can and will give to its citizen more comfort. But the suppression of dissent and the elimination of all voice, even those of constructive criticism lead to bankrupty of the people and their opinions, and the generalised collapse of the system, taking with it all the progressive thing that have been put in place.

that what happen 99% of the time, and that why i say autocratie is shit.

[danyboy27]

I've always been very interested in the socialist period of Afghanistan with the PDPA in charge, but I've never found any decent books on it (most focus explicitly on the war, with very little mention of the actual politics of the country). Can anyone point me towards any reading?

PM khad, he got ton of book about it.

[chebol]

It's only from early on in the piece (1982), but I would recommend "Revolutionary Afghanistan" by Beverly Male. It gives a no nonsense and reasonably impartial and informed account of how the "revolution" took place, the internal politics of the PDPA and the problems of reforming Afghan society that underlay the following decades of violence.