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View Full Version : neoliberalism, and command economies, two sides of the same coin



black magick hustla
23rd April 2010, 02:58
I had this discussion with a person who considered himself socialism. He was telling me that the dream of the bosses is to have a market with minimal state intervention and he cited neoliberalism.

While it is obvious that neoliberalism came with the growth of the state, for example, the military build up of Reagan, Bush, etcetera. Regardless, I think it is a mistake to treat neoliberalism and old style centralism, like the old latin american states, as the latter being better.

He told me that maybe our differences of opinion was due to the fact that he grew up in the US where he was fed with neoliberal propaganda, and I grew in Mexico, where for 70 years there was a fascistoid style, corporatist government.

I think this is the crux of the issue. I dont think the "non neoliberal" mexican state was particularly better. it killed off 500 people in the tlatelolco massacre and thousands of leftists in the dirty war. It always struck me as naive the "anti-neoliberal" rhetoric of the left. Neoliberalism and centralism are just particular reconfigurations of the boss class. You abolish the neo-liberal policies that favor american imperialism and the imperialist topology is going to be reconfigured, but capital will still be intact.

What do you guys think about this?

CartCollector
24th April 2010, 04:52
I've heard some people on here say that centralizing the means of production in the hands of the state makes socialist revolution easier, because once the workers get control of the state they instantly have control over all industry. I disagree with this- industry is centralized in China, but it hasn't gotten the workers any closer to worker controlled industry. I believe that separating industry from government is the best path to take, because it weakens bourgeois solidarity, if you will, by turning sections of the bourgeoisie against itself. Sure, big business controls parliamentary democracies indirectly through bribery/political donations, but just imagine if big business owned the state and all its weaponry and prisons itself! That's basically what those who want to centralize industry in the state's hands want.