fuck the historical dogma banner waving idiocy plzz

[Ericka Huggins]

Are we harming the movement by constantly looking back at historical figures like lenin marx mao, i mean, can we really be so ignorant as to believe that if stalin was on revleft, spouting his anti gay bullshit he wouldnt be banned, why do we seem to think we can take 1917 russia and re create the revolution, with such huge police and military capability, with such huge propoganda organs, we must surely divise a new strategy, unless we want to alienate the masses by banging on about dead homophobes and waving stalin pics to somehow spark the revolution.

Yes alot of stalins policies were good, same with mao, but we need to look to the future and forget the past, we need to come up with policies that would help the modern day proletariat instead of being dogmatic for dogmatics sake, hell there are loads of anti religeon people here, yet lenin said we shouldnt exclude of offend christians or muslims etc but unite with them.

Peace out bruva

[Sam_b]

constantly looking back at historical figures like lenin marx mao


yet lenin said

...

[Ericka Huggins]

that was my point they go on bout lenin, yet they thenforget his position on most things lol

[Muzk]

All HAIL OUR GLORIOUS LEADER STALIN! DOWN WITH TROTSKYITE SCUM!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HXF-ub4QS_A

[Ericka Huggins]

thats another thing i dont get so many marxists hate trots more than capitalists, i just disagree on strategy, i still think they are comrades and brothers in the same struggle to remove this decadent and unjust society.

[Muzk]

bUT TROTS ARE THE CAPITALISTS! :lol: ITS A JEWISH-TROT-ANARCHO CONSPIRACY! THEY SLANDER GOD I MEAN COMRADE STALIN WHICH IS THE ONLY REASON WHY THERE IS NO COMMUNISM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111

[Andropov]

Why should we referance the USSR?
I thought that was abundantly clear, because it was the biggest socialist experiment in the history of man, to not referance it and learn from its mistakes and achievements would be pure idiocy.

[Muzk]

analyzing & learning /= flag-waving trot-beating shits.

[Palingenisis]

thats another thing i dont get so many marxists hate trots more than capitalists, i just disagree on strategy, i still think they are comrades and brothers in the same struggle to remove this decadent and unjust society.

Trots are more dangerous than capitalists who are open enemies.

Trots try to undermine and destory movements of the working class and the oppressed from a "progressive vantage point".

You need to read up more on Trotsky and the "Trotskyite" movement.

[khad]

Well, for Irish Republicans the CWI and various anarchists at various times upheld unionism, either tacitly or explicitly, making them very literally the enemy. It's bad blood that's hard to erase.

Ericka, you're perhaps thousandth person who's posted some of these anti-sectarian rants, but really, if you feel this way, you should do your sanity a favor and take a break from revleft. Because staying here will get you exposed to sectarian bullshit like you wouldn't believe.

[Andropov]

Trots try to undermine and destory movements of the working class and the oppressed from a "progressive vantage point".
I think thats a very unfair statement to make.
In fact alot of Trotskys writings were quite good, granted some of his writings when put into application has been fundamentally flawed but no more so than other leftist tendencys.
Indeed the best chance for a viable working class alternative to the establishment in the south comes from the SP which is of course Trotskyite.
That is not to mention the many Trots who are and were members of the IRSM, including POW's.
To dismiss a whole tendency out of hand is somewhat foolish.
If you even read up on the split in 74 between us and the sticks, the sticks actually tried to label us as Trots believe it or not, bizarre to say the least.
Im not a trot but I wouldnt dismiss the whole tendency out of hand either.

[Palingenisis]

Trots also propagandized against the people's war in peru in the 80s and 90s aswell as the Naxalite insurgency at moment and the revolution in Nepal.

[Muzk]

palingenisis is so fucking stupid, i can only facepalm to the shit he spews :laugh::laugh::laugh:

wheres your proof ? OH YOU GOT NONE :laugh::laugh:

[RedAnarchist]

This is obviously going downhill fast, so I'm moving it to Chit Chat.

[Palingenisis]

I think thats a very unfair statement to make.
.


I dont. Trotsky was the extreme authoritarian end of the Bholseviks (militarization of labour anybody?) who after his exile opportunistically portrayed himself as some champion of "workers' democracy". While I dont agree with "Left-Communism" I can still respect the fact that it has a logical conistancy and a certain valid (up to a point) reasoning behind it. The same could be said for class struggle anarchism."Trotskyism" though is based around a cult personality, a parasitical sniping relationship to the communist movement and boundless opportunism.

Yes the Socialist Party are doing very well now in Ireland but both of us know that people vote for Joe Higgins the same reason they voted for the sticks (didnt they become the biggest party in Dublin at one point?)...To defend their economic interests under capitalism. The Socialist Party are not going to be leading anyway towards national liberation and socialism anytime soon.

[Spawn of Stalin]

I don't really care about Trotsky, I think the man was a horrible opportunist, a hypocrite, and most of all a complete tool, but I think it's silly to go on about it. My problem isn't with Trotsky, it's with Trotskyites who do/say completely reactionary things, the CWI and their blatant anti-republicanism is one thing I particularly despise. Not to mention the line that some Trots take on south Asia.

[Jimmie Higgins]

Are we harming the movement by constantly looking back at historical figures
I don't care for hero worshiping or treating these figures outside of history and all that. But I do think that promoting and understanding radical history in general is very important if only for the fact that the capitalists spend a lot of energy trying to control worker's understanding of history.

So I think in the US it's important to promote the legacy of the Black Panthers, the IWW, Eugen Debs, and the radical work done by the CP in the 30s, John Brown, Malcolm X, Haymarket Martyrs and so on. You regularly hear mainstream media people and academics claim that radicalism or collective struggle are "not consistent with the American character". This is accepted by most people and it's complete bullshit if you actually look at US history and the labor struggle as well as social struggles.

[Chambered Word]

I don't really care about Trotsky, I think the man was a horrible opportunist, a hypocrite, and most of all a complete tool, but I think it's silly to go on about it. My problem isn't with Trotsky, it's with Trotskyites who do/say completely reactionary things, the CWI and their blatant anti-republicanism is one thing I particularly despise. Not to mention the line that some Trots take on south Asia.


Trots are more dangerous than capitalists who are open enemies.

Trots try to undermine and destory movements of the working class and the oppressed from a "progressive vantage point".

You need to read up more on Trotsky and the "Trotskyite" movement.

Cool fucking narrative broseph.

[Bright Banana Beard]

cool fucking narrative broseph.

omgz LIEK SERIOUSLY IT COOL DUDE! *foam*

[9]

Ugh why do I even read this shit

[Jazzratt]

Ugh why do I even read this shit

Because you hate yourself and it's easier than cutting.

[Robocommie]

Did you guys notice Ericka Huggins included Marx in that list of historical figures? Lenin Marx Mao?

[Lyev]

I don't really care about Trotsky, I think the man was a horrible opportunist, a hypocrite, and most of all a complete tool
the CWI and their blatant anti-republicanism
I'm not necessarily denying any of this, but is there any solid proof for these claims? (By the way, half of these points are subjective, therefore they mean nothing.)