The big anarchist survey

[ContrarianLemming]

I think it would be good to get as many anarchists to participate in this as possible, something like tihs is long overdue and I'm dying to see the results!
send to anarchist friends!
post it in other boards!
apolgies if it's already been posted!
http://www.anarchistsurvey.com/

[Ravachol]

Not to be rude, but why on earth do they include 'Anarcho'-capitalism in a survey about Anarchism? And what is this talk of a 'middle class', whatever that may be...

[Muzk]

Did it!

[A Proletarian Manifesto]

Not to be rude, but why on earth do they include 'Anarcho'-capitalism in a survey about Anarchism? And what is this talk of a 'middle class', whatever that may be...
Anarcho-capitalism is the system in which all ruling power is removed, but we still use the system of voting on what we want. It's wierd to explain.

Lol, middle class
:rolleyes:

[The Douche]

Anarcho-capitalism is the system in which all ruling power is removed, but we still use the system of voting on what we want. It's wierd to explain.

Lol, middle class
:rolleyes:

No...its not...

[syndicat]

my main criticism was their use of mainstream class concepts like "lower middle class" and "upper middle class". There is no such distinction. In the radical tradtion classes are defined by having power over others. One could refer to the small employer class as a "class in between" or "the old middle class" and the bureaucratic class -- middle managers, judges, cops, lawyers, high end professionals -- as "the new middle class", or both of these classes could be called "middle classes". but this is different than the mainstream concept, which tends to be in terms of income.

[Stand Your Ground]

Did it. Good survey. Although I do agree 'anarcho' capitalism shouldn't have been in there.

[CChocobo]

just did it.

[Mendax]

Did it. Good survey. Although I do agree 'anarcho' capitalism shouldn't have been in there.
It shouldn't be in the what labels do you associate with part but in the section about past "labels" it should proberly stay.


And what is this talk of a 'middle class', whatever that may be...

From the FAQ:


What's up with your options in the class questions - they look like the ones liberals use?
Class is a very controversial topic in contemporary anarchism; some people think it's as simple as it was back in Marx's day, while others think that factors like globalisation and immaterial labour have changed class composition in complex ways. While we could have added all sorts of other options - the co-ordinator / techno-managerial class, the peasantry, the aristocracy, the bourgeoisie and so forth - we figured it would make the questions needlessly complicated and even a bit misleading, so we opted for an 'other' option instead :-)

[Raúl Duke]

I did it...

[Tablo]

Did it. I think it was quite nice. I think it was good they included a section for the ancaps to identify themselves so their shit info could be quickly trashed, lol.

[A Proletarian Manifesto]

I did it, how are we gonna get the results though, is it going to be filed by IP?

[A Proletarian Manifesto]

Nevermind just read the faq. I thought we were gonna get individual results. I was wrong.

[A Proletarian Manifesto]

No...its not...
Ok, I explained it wrong, but if you look to get any bumper stickers or anything that revolves around anarchism, anarcho-capitalism is almost always the most popular by a big lead.

[The Douche]

Ok, I explained it wrong, but if you look to get any bumper stickers or anything that revolves around anarchism, anarcho-capitalism is almost always the most popular by a big lead.

If you look at the anarchist movement, no, its not. Anarcho-capitalism exists only in the minds and message boards of a tiny group of very old or college aged white men.

[chegitz guevara]

Most libertarians I know refer to themselves as anarchists.

[The Douche]

Most libertarians I know refer to themselves as anarchists.

First, most libertarians I know refer to themselves as libertarians, there is a difference between libertarian and anarcho-capitalist of course.

Second, that only confirms my statement that anarcho-capitalism only exists through old white men/college kids. (the base of the libertarian party/movement)

[syndicat]

Ok, I explained it wrong, but if you look to get any bumper stickers or anything that revolves around anarchism, anarcho-capitalism is almost always the most popular by a big lead.

fallacy of equivocation. you think "anarchism" has only one meaning. It doesn't.

Right-libertarians may be more numerous than social anarchists. Their views are aimed at defending the interests of property owning class and thus mainstream conservatives often play to their rhetoric when it suits their purposes.

but this has as much to do with social or left anarchism as the National Socialist German Workers Party had to do with the workers movement or socialism.

[The Douche]

Right-libertarians may be more numerous than social anarchists. Their views are aimed at defending the interests of property owning class and thus mainstream conservatives often play to their rhetoric when it suits their purposes.

Also worth noting that right libertarianism is not the same as anarcho-capitalism. There is some overlap, like there is overlap in the marxist and anarchist camp, but they're not the same, and anarcho-capitalism is certainly not the more popular anarchist tendency in the US. (or anywhere)

[A Proletarian Manifesto]

fallacy of equivocation. you think "anarchism" has only one meaning. It doesn't.


Damn son, hit me right on the chin with a good 'ole fashion, right wing strawman.

[Crux]

I did it, just for the trip down memory lane. I should read Stirner again.

[syndicat]

Damn son, hit me right on the chin with a good 'ole fashion, right wing strawman.

it'd be a strawman only if you didn't make the assumption that "anarcho-capitalists" have something to do with the historical social anarchist tradition, but in fact you do make that assumption. your aim is a kind of sectarian swipe by way of guilt by association due to having a word in common.

in your various posts on this thread and at least one other you have this troll-like tendency to insert your little insulting one or two liners, as a kind of sectarian peeve. it's pretty useless to do that.

[A Proletarian Manifesto]

it'd be a strawman only if you didn't make the assumption that "anarcho-capitalists" have something to do with the historical social anarchist tradition, but in fact you do make that assumption. your aim is a kind of sectarian swipe by way of guilt by association due to having a word in common.

in your various posts on this thread and at least one other you have this troll-like tendency to insert your little insulting one or two liners, as a kind of sectarian peeve. it's pretty useless to do that.

No, sir your whole arguement is invalid now. Your putting words in my mouth. I said their are alot of anarcho-capitalists out there, nobody disproved my claim, only gave it their sole opinion.

I have had no-troll like tendencies unless you consider the thread in which LA rage attacked me by throwing an insult in my direction where it looks like he did not attack me personally, but attacks me subliminally.

It was a strawman on the account that he oversimplified a position I was not standing on, then preceeded to attack said position.

[The Douche]

No, sir your whole arguement is invalid now. Your putting words in my mouth. I said their are alot of anarcho-capitalists out there, nobody disproved my claim, only gave it their sole opinion.

I have had no-troll like tendencies unless you consider the thread in which LA rage attacked me by throwing an insult in my direction where it looks like he did not attack me personally, but attacks me subliminally.

It was a strawman on the account that he oversimplified a position I was not standing on, then preceeded to attack said position.

Where is your proof that anarcho-capitalism is a popular movement? I have seen, with my own eyes, thousands of anarchists in the streets of one city. I've never seen an anarcho-capitalist in real life.

[StalinFanboy]

This is going to be a fun thread.

[A Proletarian Manifesto]

Where is your proof that anarcho-capitalism is a popular movement? I have seen, with my own eyes, thousands of anarchists in the streets of one city. I've never seen an anarcho-capitalist in real life.

I was browsing for a sweet sticker or poster that said "Anarcho-communist" about 6-8 months back, and I know you can create your own labels on this site, I was even going to dare to buy a shirt to bring to school to rile up the establishment for half a day. I looked into this site and they seem to have an AWFUL lot of anarcho-capitalism swag, so I decided to switch site, and the consumers seem to lean ALOT more towards anarcho-capitalism. I may have took this at face value, but I didn't see a reason as to why they would make so much shit if nobody but a couple college aged white men only bought their shit.

I'm sorry if I was wrong, but I was making a not out of the ordinary assumption.

zazzle
.
com
/anarcho+communism+gifts

still can't post links, sorry.

[freedon]

From my observation of conference attendance, zine ciriculation, alexa numbers and other means there are more anarcho capitalists than all other types of anarchists combined. Of course they have more money to attend more functions but I lived in NYC which has lots of all radical types that attended each other's events and otherwise got along.

[A Proletarian Manifesto]

Hey look at this! I'm no rocket scientist or calculating major, but it seems to me as if this is an anarcho-capitalist militia!?!?!?! :O

They happen t be recruiting and opertaing under national standards for militia's.

I will post the think right under this post because I have 24 posts and need 25 to post links.

[A Proletarian Manifesto]

^^^^^ www.machsa.org ^^^^^

[The Douche]

From my observation of conference attendance, zine ciriculation, alexa numbers and other means there are more anarcho capitalists than all other types of anarchists combined. Of course they have more money to attend more functions but I lived in NYC which has lots of all radical types that attended each other's events and otherwise got along.

Just gonna go ahead and call you a liar.


Hey look at this! I'm no rocket scientist or calculating major, but it seems to me as if this is an anarcho-capitalist militia!?!?!?! :O

They happen t be recruiting and opertaing under national standards for militia's.

I will post the think right under this post because I have 24 posts and need 25 to post links.

How can they be "anarchist" if they:


uphold the laws of the Constitution (from their faq)

Also...

Their staggering mass movement launches a protest:

http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o128/welshmedic/25678_1394822274587_1353093553_2776.jpg


The tiny, and pititful left anarchist movement holds a protest:

http://www.infoshop.org/news5/blackbloc_la.jpg



You're starting to troll territory.

[A Proletarian Manifesto]

I'm not trolling, and that is one militia from PA.

You just strawmanned me again by saying that those are both the definitive parties supporters. You keep trying to give me an unsupportable position.

I've been on two "leftist" forums, and if i've noticed anything so far, it's that
anarchists loves them some strawmans.


Also, to make things nice and sparkeling clear. I went as far to say "I'm sorry if I was wrong, but I was making a not out of the ordinary assumption."

And you are again putting words in my mouth by saying I called them anarchists. I was trying to define them, and I said they were popular. You guys keep on looking at a position im not standing on and label me as such.

[ContrarianLemming]

would you kindly shut you're noise hole and get back to the topic on hand ?

[StalinFanboy]

I'm not trolling, and that is one militia from PA.

You just strawmanned me again by saying that those are both the definitive parties supporters. You keep trying to give me an unsupportable position.

I've been on two "leftist" forums, and if i've noticed anything so far, it's that
anarchists loves them some strawmans.


Also, to make things nice and sparkeling clear. I went as far to say "I'm sorry if I was wrong, but I was making a not out of the ordinary assumption."

And you are again putting words in my mouth by saying I called them anarchists. I was trying to define them, and I said they were popular. You guys keep on looking at a position im not standing on and label me as such.

If you aren't trying to call them anarchists, then why are you calling them anarcho-capitalists?

[The Douche]

I'm not trolling, and that is one militia from PA.

You just strawmanned me again by saying that those are both the definitive parties supporters. You keep trying to give me an unsupportable position.

I've been on two "leftist" forums, and if i've noticed anything so far, it's that
anarchists loves them some strawmans.


Also, to make things nice and sparkeling clear. I went as far to say "I'm sorry if I was wrong, but I was making a not out of the ordinary assumption."

And you are again putting words in my mouth by saying I called them anarchists. I was trying to define them, and I said they were popular. You guys keep on looking at a position im not standing on and label me as such.

Actually your assumption is quite out of the ordinary, only one other person has defended it, whereas a number of people have stated it is outrageous, and then, when faced with such opposition instead of maybe looking around to see who was right you defended your position by linking to some tiny 10 man militia group in pennsylvania. (also, ironically I know a member of the group...most definitely not anarchist in any way, not even in the capitalist way)

You tried to define them? Hahahahaha, what was your definition again? Oh here, let me post it:


Anarcho-capitalism is the system in which all ruling power is removed, but we still use the system of voting on what we want. It's wierd to explain.


Words cannot describe the innacuracy of that "definition".

You said they were popular based on your searching for fucking bumper stickers!! Come on man. And you did call them anarchists, you called them "anarcho-capitalists".

I'm not labeling you as anything but wrong, which, in this case, is what you are.

[A Proletarian Manifesto]

If you aren't trying to call them anarchists, then why are you calling them anarcho-capitalists?
Because that is the widely known name for such a group of people?


And to C-money I dont remembver if you saw me post this 3 other times but here it goes again "I'm sorry if I was wrong, but I was not making an assumpion that was out of the ordinary."

[The Douche]

Because that is the widely known name for such a group of people?

But you just said you weren't calling them anarchists? I'm confused...dude, nobody thinks you're an anarcho-capitalist or anything.


And to C-money I dont remembver if you saw me post this 3 other times but here it goes again "I'm sorry if I was wrong, but I was not making an assumpion that was out of the ordinary."

Yeah, you said that right before you posted that little militia to prove the popularity of anarcho-capitalism over left anarchism.

[A Proletarian Manifesto]

But you just said you weren't calling them anarchists? I'm confused...dude, nobody thinks you're an anarcho-capitalist or anything.


Ok, I will now refer to both parties as capitalists.

[The Douche]

Ok, I will now refer to both parties as capitalists.

What do you mean both parties? I use the term anarcho-capitalists to describe those who are in line with the theories of Rothbard and Misses, I don't like it, but it is the accepted term in general discussion. This arguement wasn't about what you call them, the arguement was cause 1) I don't think you know what anarcho-capitalism is and 2) you said it was more popular than left anarchism.

[A Proletarian Manifesto]

What do you mean both parties? I use the term anarcho-capitalists to describe those who are in line with the theories of Rothbard and Misses, I don't like it, but it is the accepted term in general discussion. This arguement wasn't about what you call them, the arguement was cause 1) I don't think you know what anarcho-capitalism is and 2) you said it was more popular than left anarchism.


That is what La rage just denoted. Literally 6 posts up.

I have read outlines of what anarcho-capitalism is. Although it was a brief column and it was awile back.

And I also said, I was going by consumer's popular pick.

[The Douche]

That is what La rage just denoted. Literally 6 posts up.

I have read outlines of what anarcho-capitalism is. Although it was a brief column and it was awile back.

And I also said, I was going by consumer's popular pick.

I really do wanna know what you mean by "both parties"? I'm just wondering.

[A Proletarian Manifesto]

Capitalists in general and anarcho-capitalists.

[A Proletarian Manifesto]

Just was watching some tv and The tea party use the same flag as anarcho-capitalists. The snake too with the "Don't tread on me." signiture. If the tea party are neo-anarcho-capitalists, then anarcho-capitalists are vastly greater in numbers than the anarcho-left.

I will look into this whole thing tomorrow, just something to digest tonight.

[Endomorphian]

No, most tea party participants are not anarcho-capitalists, although their rhetoric is oftentimes confusing at best.

I thought the inclusion of anarcho-capitalist was necessary as it provided a fair approach that could even be rebuffed later on with questions about the legitimacy of each movement. Was disappointed to see mutualism excluded even though Proudhon was one of the choices for most identifiable theorist.

[AK]

I proudly advocate the genocide of all those in the middle classes. See what I did there? :laugh:

[Forward Union]

Filled it in, quite like the content of the questions. Be sure to publish the results.

[A Proletarian Manifesto]

Ok, for the people behind the screens, here is what wikipedia hato say (Not saying wikipedia is the best site for information, but I think it'll do for now)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarcho-capitalism

[The Douche]

Just was watching some tv and The tea party use the same flag as anarcho-capitalists. The snake too with the "Don't tread on me." signiture. If the tea party are neo-anarcho-capitalists, then anarcho-capitalists are vastly greater in numbers than the anarcho-left.

I will look into this whole thing tomorrow, just something to digest tonight.

Dude, that flag is from the American revolution, it is not an "anarcho-capitalist" flag. The tea party are an amalgamation of neocon/pro-bush republicans, reagan republicans, libertarians, and alex jones/john birch society nut jobs. A small minority of the libertarians and alex jones types may be influenced by anarcho-capitalism, and a smaller portion of them might be anarcho-capitalists.

Thanks for the link, but the discussion isn't "what is anarcho-capitalism", its you trying to say anarcho-capitalism is more popular than real anarchism. And that position has been put to bed, I think you ought to drop it.

[The Ungovernable Farce]

Just to note that, whether or not (A)-capitalism has any sway in the US, it is totally non-existent outside of North America.

[What Would Durruti Do?]

I've seen one or two Ancap flags at tea parties. It is a small minority though.

[A Proletarian Manifesto]

Dude, that flag is from the American revolution, it is not an "anarcho-capitalist" flag. The tea party are an amalgamation of neocon/pro-bush republicans, reagan republicans, libertarians, and alex jones/john birch society nut jobs. A small minority of the libertarians and alex jones types may be influenced by anarcho-capitalism, and a smaller portion of them might be anarcho-capitalists.

Thanks for the link, but the discussion isn't "what is anarcho-capitalism", its you trying to say anarcho-capitalism is more popular than real anarchism. And that position has been put to bed, I think you ought to drop it.

It started out as "Why's it was a choice?" then moved to "You don't know what it means." after that it turned into "Anarcho-capitalism isn't as popular." So I was reffering back to my first statement, and that it DID vaguely describe anarcho-capitalism.

[Emile Armand]

I just took it. Quite interesting really.

[Crux]

Just to note that, whether or not (A)-capitalism has any sway in the US, it is totally non-existent outside of North America.
We actually had a ancap/libertarian do a bombing in sweden during the 90's. His group the Freedom front still exist and as afar I gather they've become more anarcho-capitalists and less classical libertarians recently, one of their former members left the group and is now just a anarchist, although I gather he's trying to bridge the gap between social anarchists and anarcho-capitalists. Good luck, dude. Anyway, yeah anarcho-capitalism on the whole seems like a very american phenomenon.

[The Ungovernable Farce]

We actually had a ancap/libertarian do a bombing in sweden during the 90's.
Woah. Urban guerrilla anarcho-capitalism? All that's missing is a bit of nationalism and that would actually be a contender for the most fucked ideology ever.

[JacobVardy]

Woah. Urban guerrilla anarcho-capitalism? All that's missing is a bit of nationalism and that would actually be a contender for the most fucked ideology ever.

That actually exists, the National Socialist Green Libertarians.

http://www.nazi.org/

Oh, and i did the survey. Did anyone see some info for publication dates?