Kalinga

[A.R.Amistad]

I'm still trying to do research on examples of early democracies and communist societies. Does anyone know about the ancient Kalinga nation in present-day India, but I can't find much more beyond that. Does anyone know what the class structure was of this society and the status of property in the Kalinga nation?

[red cat]

That was roughly what is the province of Orissa today. It was most probably Buddhist dominated and was annexed by Ashoka, the then emperor of India after a bloody war.

[A.R.Amistad]

How did the early Buddhist leaders rule their lands? I know that Ashoka made a move towards a pacifist state, abolished torture, capital punishment and such and sought to be responsive to his people, but did the rule of Ashoka do anything to abolish classes and establish a democratic state?

[red cat]

How did the early Buddhist leaders rule their lands? I know that Ashoka made a move towards a pacifist state, abolished torture, capital punishment and such and sought to be responsive to his people, but did the rule of Ashoka do anything to abolish classes and establish a democratic state?

Generally Buddhists glorify ancient Buddhist empires with peace and prosperity, but I really doubt these claims. A few points:

1) Heavy exploitation is the basis of feudal power. Had Ashoka really stopped all that, his empire would not last a day.

2) In what sense was capital punishment stopped in Buddhist empires ? Direct execution was stopped. However, execution through starvation replaced it, and was used fully to protect feudal power.

3) Earlier Mauryan emperors converted to an equally non-violent religion called Jainism, however this had no effect on Ashoka who continued to expand his empire through bloody wars. This shows that these religions actually had no effect on the warmongering nature of the monarchs.

4) The caste system was not eradicated; perhaps the traditional form of castes was a bit weakened, which was restored anyway after the fall of the Mauryan dynasty.

5) The Mauryan dynasty arose from the lowest layer of the Hindu society; tribal shudras. To conform the society to heighten their position, they weakened the traditional caste system but replaced it with something equally oppressive. The new model of monarchy popularized by this dynasty was the king maintaining a huge community of monks and legitimizing his actions through their consent. These Buddhist monks had huge monasteries built for them; and claimed a portion of the population as lower monks who were practically slaves.

Lamaism in Tibet is a good example for deducing what kind of non-violence, equality or prosperity existed in earlier Buddhist empires.

[A.R.Amistad]

I myself was skeptical about just how fair and just these Buddhist "Empires" were. Seems like my suspicions are confirmed: Buddhist rule was just a glorified and "kinder" type of feudalism. Still, are there any ancient examples of sophisticated Indo-Asian egalitarian societies?

[red cat]

I myself was skeptical about just how fair and just these Buddhist "Empires" were. Seems like my suspicions are confirmed: Buddhist rule was just a glorified and "kinder" type of feudalism. Still, are there any ancient examples of sophisticated Indo-Asian egalitarian societies?

Ancient communism was prevalent in every society before the slave system. After the Indus valley civilization started, this kind of societies were probably preserved only in tribal belts in India, where they can still be observed to some extent.

You will hear many stories about south and south east Asia which seem to indicate social equality, for example the king distributing every ounce of his enormous wealth among the poor every five years etc, but please analyze them properly. There was no golden age in ancient Asia. But there is definitely one in near future.