Rolling your "R"

[cska]

Well, I have a lot of trouble saying the "rr" sound in Spanish. Glad to know I'm not the only one. :laugh:

http://www.wikihow.com/Roll-Your-%22R%22s

"A famous example is Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin), father of the October Revolution, founder and leader of the Soviet Union from 1917 to 1923. Lenin was unable to create the alveolar trill, which is rather unfortunate when you are the leader of the Rossiyskaya Sotsial-Demokraticheskaya Rabochaya Partiya (the Russian Social Democratic Workers' Party). So, don't feel so bad if you cannot get this easily."

[Vendetta]

I could never roll my r's in spanish class.

[S.Artesian]

It's easier if you imagine singing the r's as if you were a sonero, or sonera trying to convince a senorita or senor to rhumba with you.

[Sir Comradical]

I'm Indian, of course I can roll my r. In my language we have 2 different sounds for r which sound indistinguishable to non-speakers.

[cska]

I'm Indian, of course I can roll my r. In my language we have 2 different sounds for r which sound indistinguishable to non-speakers.

My mother tongue is Marathi but I never could roll my r. Isn't much of a problem, though, as I always use English except when talking with my parents. :lol:

I can pronounce a soft d, t, and p though. :) Unfortunately for me, I got the habit of pronouncing v as a w, and p as a soft p, which most Americans mistake for a b...

[Raúl Duke]

In Puerto Rico, words that end with Rs sound a bit more "silent" or something...
Like "honor" sounds like "honol" to some degree.

[Sir Comradical]

My mother tongue is Marathi but I never could roll my r. Isn't much of a problem, though, as I always use English except when talking with my parents. :lol:

I can pronounce a soft d, t, and p though. :) Unfortunately for me, I got the habit of pronouncing v as a w, and p as a soft p, which most Americans mistake for a b...

Wow, your mother tongue is Marathi? Marathi speakers are the most rollicking r-rollers in India!

[the last donut of the night]

takes practice. only way, really

[Sasha]

grew up in an quite posh neighboorhood (not that my family was posh but all my neighboors where, it fucked my ability to ever speak an rolling r, even after years of voicelessons when i was still in theaterschool i couldnt do it.

[Wanted Man]

It's easy. rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

[Tyrlop]

Bertolt Brecht rolled his R's
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_QXJ3OXWaOY
can anyone guess why?

[Muzk]

because we germans are perfect rollercoasters

[Comrade B]

My first language was German, but I think that this works pretty decently for most people, I discovered this while trying poorly to sing along with Sublime

Try saying "Give it up give it up give it up" repeatedly and very quickly, you will eventually create a bit of a roll between "it" and "up"

[punisa]

I can't do it perfect either. No big deal. Actually I like it, sounds kinda unique and chicks dig it :thumbup1:

[Bilan]

because we germans are perfect rollercoasters

You win at life.

---

Also, watch a bunch of films and imitate what you hear.
That's how I learnt.
I'm from Australia. The only thing we roll here are things on a barbecue, and we talk through our noses.

Though, I don't sound very Australian, as Kevis gladly pointed out when I came to london town.

[mikelepore]

Maybe your tongue isn't in the right position. I think you have to make the tip of your tongue stick up vertically and touch the roof of the mouth, then blow air on the bottom surface of your tongue, blowing air hard enough to make your tongue vibrate. But the tip of your tongue has to be far from your teeth, because too close to your teeth and it would begin to sound like "th" instead of "rr."

[Invincible Summer]

because we germans are perfect rollercoasters

Doesn't it depend on what region you're from?

[Rusty Shackleford]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ZTsA_lErrQ

ok, so ive taken 4 years of german and 2 years of spanish, so my r rolling has become quite good in my opinion. right now im starting to notice variations in german speech.

when i roll my rs when speaking german and saying Droehnt i roll my r with the bakc of my tongue/upper throat. its mildly phlegmy occasionally. theres other times where when i roll my rs in german its hardly noticeable but its there.

i dont know if thats a certain accent but im trying to get a general german accent instead of having an american accent with it.

[DreamWeaver]

Listen to Rammstein -> imitate. (and sound like hitler, yay).

[Rusty Shackleford]

Listen to Rammstein -> imitate. (and sound like hitler, yay).
listen to tool sound like hitler baking cookies.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=okO5_u5wSOA

[Tower of Bebel]

I learned to use bove the alveolar R (thrilling or rolling R) and the guttural R (or French R)

[Leonid Brozhnev]

I can roll my R's well, but that's probably the gift/curse of being Scottish.

[cska]

Well, at least I learned how to pronounce Eyjafjallajökull correctly. :lol:

[Ligeia]

I speak spanish and german and in the region (in Germany) where I live the r is not rolled very much and often even negligible. Most germans here have problems rolling the R e.g. for speaking spanish.
I also have an accent in every language I speak which is mostly due to my strong rr sound which I guess derives from my first language being spanish or maybe because my father (who's polish) and my mother (who's mexican) both roll their rr strongly and I've somehow caught that up when I was little....don't know.
I rather have a problem suppressing this sound.:blink:

[Invincible Summer]

Yeah when I learned German, my instructor told us to keep the tongue low in the mouth, almost like you're touching your bottom front teeth, making the sound from the back of the throat sort of. Not really rolling at all

[Revy]

Well, not a lot of people realize the intricacies of Spanish pronunciation. Like how r between vowels actually sounds more like a d. And how d between vowels sounds kind of like a "th". And how b between vowels sounds like a v.:cool:

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

I couldn't roll my Rs until I learnt a bit of Welsh. I dunno about about southerners, but the Gogs roll their Rs a lot.

[Robocommie]

the most rollicking r-rollers in India!

Bet you can't say that five times fast.

[Angry Young Man]

I couldn't roll my Rs until I learnt a bit of Welsh. I dunno about about southerners, but the Gogs roll their Rs a lot.

Can you pronounce Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysilio gogogoch correctly?

[Foldered]

I can't do it at all; it has inhibited my learning of Arabic as well as Spanish. :(

[Il Medico]

Can you pronounce Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysilio gogogoch correctly?
There is no way that is a word. Not even in Welsh.

[Velkas]

There is no way that is a word. Not even in Welsh.It is (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Llanfairpwllgwyngyll). Not too hard to pronounce, if you know the basics of Welsh spelling and pronunciation, and break the word into several parts. incidentally, it means "St Mary's Church in a hollow of white hazel near the swirling whirlpool of the church of St. Tysilio with a red cave." I nearly went there last year, on my trip to Britain and Ireland.

Back to the topic of rolled "r"s, it always reminds me of the Seventh Doctor (Sylvester McCoy). His rolled "r"s are... very interesting.

[Il Medico]

It is (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Llanfairpwllgwyngyll). Not too hard to pronounce, if you know the basics of Welsh spelling and pronunciation, and break the word into several parts. incidentally, it means "St Mary's Church in a hollow of white hazel near the swirling whirlpool of the church of St. Tysilio with a red cave." I nearly went there last year, on my trip to Britain and Ireland.

That isn't a word. Its a sentence.

[Velkas]

I know. According to the Wikipedia page, the town was renamed as such in the 1860s as a publicity stunt. :lol:

[the last donut of the night]

That isn't a word. Its a sentence.

Well, when it comes to languages, that's an interesting distinction, because some languages are so agglutinative, such as Turkish, that it's possible to form very long words -- especially long to English and Romance language speakers.

[cska]

Well, when it comes to languages, that's an interesting distinction, because some languages are so agglutinative, such as Turkish, that it's possible to form very long words -- especially long to English and Romance language speakers.

Yeah we run into basic problems as to what to consider a word and what to consider a phrase. Still though, that word can clearly be understood by breaking it up into several parts. Thus, I would say it isn't a word.

[Invincible Summer]

Some more long words:

Titin: Titin is a protein found in striated muscle. Proteins derive their chemical names from the amino acids that make them up. Titin, whose chemical formula is C132983H211861N36149O40883S693, is the largest known protein, consisting of 34,350 amino acids. Its chemical name (which is never actually used anywhere) is 189,819 letters long.
Pneumonoultramicroscopicsilicovolcanoconiosis: This 45-letter doozie is a disease caused by the long-term inhalation of silica dust, a long-time danger to coal miners. Though it was coined in 1935 by the president of the National Puzzlers' League to describe what was normally called silicosis, it has managed to appear in a few dictionaries.


Read more: http://www.cliffsnotes.com/WileyCDA/Section/id-305408,articleId-113603.html#ixzz0mMkJHa6H


][/I]Donaudampfschifffahrtselektrizitätenhauptbetriebsw erkbauunterbeamtengesellschaft (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donaudampfschifffahrtselektrizit%C3%A4tenhauptbetr iebswerkbauunterbeamtengesellschaft[I)

Lopado*temacho*selacho*galeo*kranio*leipsano*drim* hypo*trimmato*silphio*parao*melito*katakechy*meno* kichl*epi*kossypho*phatto*perister*alektryon*opte* kephallio*kigklo*peleio*lagoio*siraio*baphe*tragan o*pterygon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lopadotemachoselachogaleokranioleipsanodrimhypotri mmatosilphioparaomelitokatakechymenokichlepikossyp hophattoperisteralektryonoptekephalliokigklopeleio lagoiosiraiobaphetraganopterygon)

[Velkas]

What about Acetylseryltyrosylserylisoleucylthreonylserylproly lserylglutaminylphenylalanylvalyl-phenylalnelleucylserylserylvalyotriptophylalanylas partylprolylisoleucylglutamylleucyl-lencyllasparaginylvalylcysteinythreonylserylseryll eucylglycllasparatinylglutaminylphe-nylalanylglutaminylthreonylglutaminylglutaninylala nylarginylthrseonylthreonylglutam-inylvalylglutaminyglutaninylphenylalanylserylghlut aminylvalyltryptophyllysylrolylphen-ylalaylprolyglutaminylserylthreonylvalylarginylphu nylalanylprolylglycylaspartylvalylty-rosyllsvslvalyltyrosylargiyltyosvlasparaginylalany lvalylleusylaspartylprolylleucylisole-ucylthreonylalnylleucylleucylglycyltreonylphnylala nylaspartylthreonylarginlasparagin-ylarginylisoleucylislleucylglutammylvalylglutamyla sparaginylglutaminylglutaminylsury-lprolylthreonylthreonylalanyoglutamylthreonylleucy laspartylalanylthreonylarginylargi-nylvalylaspartylaspartylalanylthreonylvalylalanyli soleucylarginylserylalanylasparagin-ylisoleucylasparaginylleucylvallasparaginylglutamy lleucylvalylarginylglycylthreonylgl-ycylleucyltyrosylasparaginylglutaminylasparaginylt hreonylphenylalanylglutamylseryl-methionylserylglycylleucylvalyltryptophylthreonyls erylalanylprolylalanylserine? It's the scientific name for the Tobacco Mosaic Virus.

Or Methionylglutaminylarginytyrosylglutamylserylleucy lphenylalanylalanylglutaminyll-eucyllysylglutamylarginyllysylglutamylglycylalanyl phenylalanyvalylprolylphenylalanyl-valythreonylleucylglycylaspartylprolyglycylisoleuc ylglutamylglutaminylserylleucyllysyl-isoleucylaspartylthreonylleucylisoleucylglutamylal anylglycylalanylaspartylalanylleucy-lglutamylleucylglycylglycylisoleucylprolylphenylal anylserylaspartylprolylleucelalanyla-spartyglycylprolythreonylisoleucylglutamiylasparag inylalanylthreonylleucylarginylala-nylphenylalanylalanylglycylvalyltheonylprolylalany lglutaminylcysteinylphenylalanygll-utamylmethionylleucyalanylleucylisoleucylarginylgl utaminyllysylhistidylprolylthreonyl-isoleucylpriIylisoleucylglycylleucylleucylmethiony ltyrosylalanylasparaginylleucylvalyp-henylalanylasparaginyllysylgyycylisoleucylaspartyl glutamylphenylalanyltyrosylalanyl-gutaminyllcysteinylglutamyllysylvalylglycylavlylas partylserylvalylleucylvalylalanylasp-artylvalyprolylvalylglutaminylglutamyllserylalanyp rolyphenylalanylarginylglutaminylal-anylalanylleucylarginylhistidylasparaginylvaylalan ylprolylisoleucylphenylalanylisoleu-cylcysteinylprolylprolylaspartylalanylaspartylaspa rtylaspartylleucylleucylarginyglutam-inylisoleucylalanyylseryltyrosylglycylarginylglycy ltyrosylthreonyltyrosylleucylleucylser-ylarginylalanylglycylvalythreonylglycylalanylgluta mylasparaginylarginylanylalanylleu-cylprolylleucylaspaaginylhistidylleucylvaylalanyll ysylleucyllysylglutamyltyrosylasarag-inylglycylphenylalanylglycylisoleucylalanylprolyla spartylglutaminylvalyllysylalanylala-nylisoleucylaspartylalanylalanyglycylalanylalanygl ycylalanylisoleucylserylglycyseryla-lanylisoleucylbalyllsylisoleucylisoleucylglutamyyy lglutaminylhistidylasparaginylisole-ucylglutamylprolyglutamyllysylmethionylleucylalany lalanylleucyllysylvalylphenylalaby-lvalylglutaminlylprolylmethionyllysylalanylalanylt hreonylarginylserine? It's the scientific name of the protein tryptophan synthetase.

[Il Medico]

What about Acetylseryltyrosylserylisoleucylthreonylserylproly lserylglutaminylphenylalanylvalyl-phenylalnelleucylserylserylvalyotriptophylalanylas partylprolylisoleucylglutamylleucyl-lencyllasparaginylvalylcysteinythreonylserylseryll eucylglycllasparatinylglutaminylphe-nylalanylglutaminylthreonylglutaminylglutaninylala nylarginylthrseonylthreonylglutam-inylvalylglutaminyglutaninylphenylalanylserylghlut aminylvalyltryptophyllysylrolylphen-ylalaylprolyglutaminylserylthreonylvalylarginylphu nylalanylprolylglycylaspartylvalylty-rosyllsvslvalyltyrosylargiyltyosvlasparaginylalany lvalylleusylaspartylprolylleucylisole-ucylthreonylalnylleucylleucylglycyltreonylphnylala nylaspartylthreonylarginlasparagin-ylarginylisoleucylislleucylglutammylvalylglutamyla sparaginylglutaminylglutaminylsury-lprolylthreonylthreonylalanyoglutamylthreonylleucy laspartylalanylthreonylarginylargi-nylvalylaspartylaspartylalanylthreonylvalylalanyli soleucylarginylserylalanylasparagin-ylisoleucylasparaginylleucylvallasparaginylglutamy lleucylvalylarginylglycylthreonylgl-ycylleucyltyrosylasparaginylglutaminylasparaginylt hreonylphenylalanylglutamylseryl-methionylserylglycylleucylvalyltryptophylthreonyls erylalanylprolylalanylserine? It's the scientific name for the Tobacco Mosaic Virus.

Or Methionylglutaminylarginytyrosylglutamylserylleucy lphenylalanylalanylglutaminyll-eucyllysylglutamylarginyllysylglutamylglycylalanyl phenylalanyvalylprolylphenylalanyl-valythreonylleucylglycylaspartylprolyglycylisoleuc ylglutamylglutaminylserylleucyllysyl-isoleucylaspartylthreonylleucylisoleucylglutamylal anylglycylalanylaspartylalanylleucy-lglutamylleucylglycylglycylisoleucylprolylphenylal anylserylaspartylprolylleucelalanyla-spartyglycylprolythreonylisoleucylglutamiylasparag inylalanylthreonylleucylarginylala-nylphenylalanylalanylglycylvalyltheonylprolylalany lglutaminylcysteinylphenylalanygll-utamylmethionylleucyalanylleucylisoleucylarginylgl utaminyllysylhistidylprolylthreonyl-isoleucylpriIylisoleucylglycylleucylleucylmethiony ltyrosylalanylasparaginylleucylvalyp-henylalanylasparaginyllysylgyycylisoleucylaspartyl glutamylphenylalanyltyrosylalanyl-gutaminyllcysteinylglutamyllysylvalylglycylavlylas partylserylvalylleucylvalylalanylasp-artylvalyprolylvalylglutaminylglutamyllserylalanyp rolyphenylalanylarginylglutaminylal-anylalanylleucylarginylhistidylasparaginylvaylalan ylprolylisoleucylphenylalanylisoleu-cylcysteinylprolylprolylaspartylalanylaspartylaspa rtylaspartylleucylleucylarginyglutam-inylisoleucylalanyylseryltyrosylglycylarginylglycy ltyrosylthreonyltyrosylleucylleucylser-ylarginylalanylglycylvalythreonylglycylalanylgluta mylasparaginylarginylanylalanylleu-cylprolylleucylaspaaginylhistidylleucylvaylalanyll ysylleucyllysylglutamyltyrosylasarag-inylglycylphenylalanylglycylisoleucylalanylprolyla spartylglutaminylvalyllysylalanylala-nylisoleucylaspartylalanylalanyglycylalanylalanygl ycylalanylisoleucylserylglycyseryla-lanylisoleucylbalyllsylisoleucylisoleucylglutamyyy lglutaminylhistidylasparaginylisole-ucylglutamylprolyglutamyllysylmethionylleucylalany lalanylleucyllysylvalylphenylalaby-lvalylglutaminlylprolylmethionyllysylalanylalanylt hreonylarginylserine? It's the scientific name of the protein tryptophan synthetase.

Thus proving that scientist name things to fuck with people.

[Angry Young Man]

incidentally, it means "St Mary's Church in a hollow of white hazel near the swirling whirlpool of the church of St. Tysilio with a red cave." I nearly went there last year, on my trip to Britain and Ireland.

What he's saying is if it was in England, it'd be called Whitehazelton.

Let's run through strange town names. I'll start with Alvecote.

Btw, I know everyone'll want to put Cockermouth, but '-mouth' is quite a standard suffix meaning at the mouth of a river, as in Bournemouth, Plymouth, Portsmouth, Yarmouth. Maybe they would have avoided much piss-taking if they pronounced it as Cockermuth

[Andropov]

It is (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Llanfairpwllgwyngyll). Not too hard to pronounce, if you know the basics of Welsh spelling and pronunciation, and break the word into several parts.
How does Welsh differ from Irish??

[Il Medico]

?
They look completely different.
Welsh:
lawr yr afon ar draws y coed ger yr eglwys o ststylio gan yr ogof glas.

Irish:
síos ag an abhainn ar fud an adhmad in aice leis an séipéal de ststylio ag an uaimh gorm.

And just for fun:
Icelandic:
niður með ánni yfir skóginum við hliðina á kirkju ststylio af bláa hellinum.

[Andropov]

?
They look completely different.
Welsh:
lawr yr afon ar draws y coed ger yr eglwys o ststylio gan yr ogof glas.

Irish:
síos ag an abhainn ar fud an adhmad in aice leis an séipéal de ststylio ag an uaimh gorm.

Is that welsh sentence the same as the Irish one because I can understand the Irish one and havnt got the foggiest idea what the Welsh one is.
Although I dont know what the "de ststylio" bit means?

I thought Irish and Welsh were from the same family tree?

[LeninBalls]

I thought Irish and Welsh were from the same family tree?

They're both Celtic languages but Irish is Gaelic and Welsh is Brythonic, so they ended up being pretty different from each other.

[Velkas]

Although I dont know what the "de ststylio" bit means?It looks like he used some sort of online translator, perhaps to translate something similar to the name of that Welsh town. Tysilio was the guy in its name: Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysilio gogogoch.

[Il Medico]

It looks like he used some sort of online translator, perhaps to translate something similar to the name of that Welsh town. Tysilio was the guy in its name: Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysilio gogogoch.
Bah, I got the name wrong.(tried to do it from memory) I did use an online translator. Translated them both back into English just to make sure they said the same.

[Sir Comradical]

Bet you can't say that five times fast.

Comrade...I speak Malayalam (it's like Tamil). Nuff said.

[cska]

Comrade...I speak Malayalam (it's like Tamil). Nuff said.

:laugh:

[piet11111]

fools speaking binary is where its at.

[Y Chwyldro Comiwnyddol Cymraeg]

It looks like he used some sort of online translator, perhaps to translate something similar to the name of that Welsh town. Tysilio was the guy in its name: Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysilio gogogoch.


Yeah, Im doing Welsh First Language A level and am sure destylio isnt a word. Intersetingly in the 6th centuary Welsh (Brythoneg) was spoken as far North as Edinburgh. We've got study poetry writen about some battles up that wasy By aneirin and Taliesin.

[cska]

fools speaking binary is where its at.

Now that is badass. :cool:

[BOZG]

They're both Celtic languages but Irish is Gaelic and Welsh is Brythonic, so they ended up being pretty different from each other.

Irish is referred to as a Goidelic language rather than a Gaelic language.

[BOZG]

I thought Irish and Welsh were from the same family tree?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P-Celtic_and_Q-Celtic

That gives a brief break down of the diversions in the family tree.


And for the pronunciation of Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysilio gogogoch

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllanty siliogogogoch.ogg

[the last donut of the night]

I think all English-speakers should start speaking Middle English again:


Original in Middle English:
Whan that Aueryłł wt his shoures soote,
The droghte of Marcħ, hath perced to the roote;
And bathed euery veyne in swich lycour,
Of which vertu engendred is the flour;
Whan zephirus eek wt his sweete breeth,
Inspired hath in euery holt and heeth;
The tendre croppes, and the yonge sonne,
Hath in the Ram, his half cours yronne;
And smale foweles, maken melodye,
That slepen al the nyght with open iye;
So priketh hem nature, in hir corages,
Thanne longen folk to goon on pilgrymages;
And Palmeres for to seeken straunge strondes,
To ferne halwes, kouthe in sondry londes;
And specially, from euery shyres ende,
Of Engelond to Caunterbury they wende;
The holy blisful martir for to seke,
That hem hath holpen whan þt they weere seeke.


Translation into Modern English: (by Nevill Coghill)[2]
When in April the sweet showers fall
And pierce the drought of March to the root, and all
The veins are bathed in liquor of such power
As brings about the engendering of the flower,
When also Zephyrus with his sweet breath
Exhales an air in every grove and heath
Upon the tender shoots, and the young sun
His half course in the sign of the Ram has run
And the small fowl are making melody
That sleep away the night with open eye,
(So nature pricks them and their heart engages)
Then folk long to go on pilgrimages,
And palmers long to seek the stranger strands
Of far off saints, hallowed in sundry lands,
And specially from every shires’ end
Of England, down to Canterbury they wend
The holy blissful martyr, quick
To give his help to them when they were sick

[Angry Young Man]

Shakespeare - easier to hear than to read; Chaucer - easier to read than to hear

[Magdalen]

How does Welsh differ from Irish??

They're from two different families of Celtic languages.

Welsh, Breton and Cornish are P-Celtic languages - Irish, Scottish Gaelic and Manx are Q-Celtic languages.

[Taygon]

I too was never able to mimic the rolled R... nor has anyone else in my family.

But in recent years, I've learned to fake it by combining a sort of purring growl at the back of my throat with an ordinary R sound. It's convincing enough to serve as a decent substitute, and it's quick and easy for me to do.

It just sounds a little... inhuman. :cool:

[Invincible Summer]

I too was never able to mimic the rolled R... nor has anyone else in my family.

But in recent years, I've learned to fake it by combining a sort of purring growl at the back of my throat with an ordinary R sound. It's convincing enough to serve as a decent substitute, and it's quick and easy for me to do.

It just sounds a little... inhuman. :cool:

http://sitemaker.umich.edu/mc13/files/mc_chewbacca.jpg

[Jazzratt]

What he's saying is if it was in England, it'd be called Whitehazelton.

Let's run through strange town names. I'll start with Alvecote.

Btw, I know everyone'll want to put Cockermouth, but '-mouth' is quite a standard suffix meaning at the mouth of a river, as in Bournemouth, Plymouth, Portsmouth, Yarmouth. Maybe they would have avoided much piss-taking if they pronounced it as Cockermuth

What's weird about Alvecote? Especially when compared to, say, Tarring Neville.

I suspect that, next to cokermouth, penistone is a popular one in this kind of thing.

[Angry Young Man]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9FfTloQ1IU&feature=player_embedded