Payback for Global Warming

[RED DAVE]

It don't pay to mess with Mother Nature:

Europe Flights Grounded for 3rd Day as Ash Worsens


Nearly all of Europe's major airports are closed for a third straight day as a huge cloud of volcanic ash billows out of Iceland and across the continent, stranding millions of travelers and creating an eerie silence in European skies.http://www.aolnews.com/world/article/europe-flights-grounded-for-3rd-day-as-volcanic-ash-worsens/19443783?icid=main|main|dl1|link3|http%3A%2F%2Fwww .aolnews.com%2Fworld%2Farticle%2Feurope-flights-grounded-for-3rd-day-as-volcanic-ash-worsens%2F19443783

RED DAVE

[Vanguard1917]

Yeah, it's Mother Nature* punishing us for our eco-sins (e.g. working class people daring to fly abroad on the cheap for a week or two under the sun -- the audacity!).


*The eco-equivalent of God himself

[Sasha]

well i wouldnt describe all the foreign presidents etc who now miss the burial of that righwing piece of catholic shit of an polish president as workingclass

[Vanguard1917]

well i wouldnt describe all the foreign presidents etc who now miss the burial of that righwing piece of catholic shit of an polish president as workingclass

Nor would i. I'm referring to the working class holidaymakers who use the budget airlines which the eco-snobs like to focus their attacks on (largely because of their hatred of the kind of people who use those airlines -- the Western proletariat).

[ZeroNowhere]

This is either mysticism, or the most pathetic of moralisms. I'm not sure which would be better.

[Vanguard1917]

This is either mysticism, or the most pathetic of moralisms.

An unhealthy dose of both, i reckon.

[Tifosi]

Surely this volcano, just like all other volcano's is pumping lots of toxic shit up into the air contributing to global warming? I think the amount this volcano is pumping out far exceeds the amount of co2 planes would have produced over the last 3 days, no?


psycho well i wouldnt describe all the foreign presidents etc who now miss the burial of that righwing piece of catholic shit of an polish president as workingclass

Bad timing for a flight Mr President :lol:

[Vanguard1917]

Surely this volcano, just like all other volcano's is pumping lots of toxic shit up into the air contributing to global warming? I think the amount this volcano is pumping out far exceeds the amount of co2 planes would have produced over the last 3 days, no?

And note how natural disasters actually make environmentalists quite a bit happy in an entirely sick and demented kind of way: Great Mother Nature humbling us arrogant humans and showing us who's boss.

[bcbm]

Yeah, it's Mother Nature* punishing us for our eco-sins (e.g. working class people daring to fly abroad on the cheap for a week or two under the sun -- the audacity!).


*The eco-equivalent of God himself

vacationers are the primary demographic on flights?

[Vanguard1917]

vacationers are the primary demographic on flights?

I don't know. I didn't imply that they were.

I'm sure that the bulk of high-cost air travel is the preserve of a small minority of businessmen and women. But that's not what environmentalists focus their attacks on. For them, the problems is mass air travel. They don't like the fact that more and more ordinary people are able to take advantage of air travel. That's why they like to attack the 'budget airlines' and why they call for greater taxation on flights in order raise the price of air travel and limit its use once again to only a small privileged minority that can afford it.

[Stand Your Ground]

The human race is committing self-inflicted extinction.

[Vanguard1917]

The human race is committing self-inflicted extinction.

The human race is growing in size every year (much to the disdain of the anti-human eco-Malthusians). That's hardly extinction.

[Wanted Man]

I don't know. I didn't imply that they were.

I'm sure that the bulk of high-cost air travel is the preserve of a small minority of businessmen and women. But that's not what environmentalists focus their attacks on. For them, the problems is mass air travel. They don't like the fact that more and more ordinary people are able to take advantage of air travel. That's why they like to attack the 'budget airlines' and why they call for greater taxation on flights in order raise the price of air travel and limit its use once again to only a small privileged minority that can afford it.

(emphasis mine)

Including themselves when they are flying to Africa on business class flights to enjoy caviar, $1,000 bottles of wine and luxury brothels while listening to Bono explaining that we need to pollute, consume, and fuck less. But I'm sure they "compensate" for it by having some trees planted in some gentrified neighbourhood that still needs a bit more green.

Only slightly related, but one of the most enjoyable pieces of news that I ever read was in 2007, when street kids in Nairobi raided (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/6295633.stm) the 5-star hotel that was going to be used for the World Social Forum. I thought that was a unique bit of justice. Definitely moreso than a volcano keeping flights grounded.

To be honest, the kind of triumphant stuff from the OP is probably evidence of the more cynical, misanthropic side of some socialists. Millions of people are stuck on airports; HAH! Take THAT! :rolleyes:

[Vanguard1917]

(emphasis mine)

Including themselves when they are flying to Africa on business class flights to enjoy caviar, $1,000 bottles of wine and luxury brothels while listening to Bono explaining that we need to pollute, consume, and fuck less. But I'm sure they "compensate" for it by having some trees planted in some gentrified neighbourhood that still needs a bit more green.

Ha. Here, here.

[scarletghoul]

Is the OP suggesting that the volcano eruption was caused by human activity ?? Does he have a good reason for thinking so or am I correct to :laugh:

[ZeroNowhere]

I don't know. I didn't imply that they were.

I'm sure that the bulk of high-cost air travel is the preserve of a small minority of businessmen and women. But that's not what environmentalists focus their attacks on. For them, the problems is mass air travel. They don't like the fact that more and more ordinary people are able to take advantage of air travel. That's why they like to attack the 'budget airlines' and why they call for greater taxation on flights in order raise the price of air travel and limit its use once again to only a small privileged minority that can afford it.
I had recently written a review for 'The Age of Stupid' (which was an age of stupid), so I can vouch for this. Ending poverty, or even allowing everyone, "even rickshaw drivers and servants", to fly? Quelle horreur!


The human race is committing self-inflicted extinction.How silly. As if production and the economy were under conscious human control at this point in time.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

I was wondering when the volcano was going to be brought up. It's such a shame that the first sentence in this topic was either incredibly misinformed, or a really shitty joke.

Having said that, it's still an interesting situation; while holidaymakers and exotic fruit importers are really put out, it seems that air travel isn't that essential to civilisation; if shipping or road/rail freight had been disrupted in the same manner, there would be true chaos.

I'm actually thankful for that; there are alternative power sources for land and sea transport, but practical alternatives to the fossil-fuel powered jet engine seem very thin on the ground. I'm hoping this will be taken as an object lesson in how to manage without mass air transport, because of all forms, it seems to me to be the most expendable.

Now I don't want to be taken as against mass air travel - far from it. But the current model is simply unsustainable.

[Dimentio]

A volcano spewing ash has nothing to do with our species in any other respect than that we, like most other life-forms, would be affected by it. It is meaningless to moralise about it or to mystify nature. Nature is vital for our survival of course, and the problems which have been caused the last two centuries are very real. But leave the poor volcano outside of it.

[bcbm]

I don't know. I didn't imply that they were.

well, you are the one who brought them up...


I'm sure that the bulk of high-cost air travel is the preserve of a small minority of businessmen and women. But that's not what environmentalists focus their attacks on. For them, the problems is mass air travel. They don't like the fact that more and more ordinary people are able to take advantage of air travel. That's why they like to attack the 'budget airlines' and why they call for greater taxation on flights in order raise the price of air travel and limit its use once again to only a small privileged minority that can afford it.

you never miss a chance, do you?

[Dean]

I don't know. I didn't imply that they were.

I'm sure that the bulk of high-cost air travel is the preserve of a small minority of businessmen and women. But that's not what environmentalists focus their attacks on. For them, the problems is mass air travel. They don't like the fact that more and more ordinary people are able to take advantage of air travel. That's why they like to attack the 'budget airlines' and why they call for greater taxation on flights in order raise the price of air travel and limit its use once again to only a small privileged minority that can afford it.

I notice that you spend most of your time railing against positions that are hardly ever seen on these forums. It always seems like everyone is have a pretty decent discussion, and then you're sitting in the corner yelling at some person only you can see.

[bcbm]

so much win in this article (http://anarchistnews.org/?q=node/11102)

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

so much win in this article (http://anarchistnews.org/?q=node/11102)

I want those two minutes of my life back. What a load of shit. If that sort of cack is representative of nihilist anarchism or whatever, you seriously need to examine your priorities.

[Stand Your Ground]

The human race is growing in size every year (much to the disdain of the anti-human eco-Malthusians). That's hardly extinction.
Yes but the Earth is deteriorating as we grow. The more people here, the more pollution, the faster the end will come. I'm not saying that in a religious sense, I think we'll all be melted by the sun...lol.

Seriously... :|

[Mendax]

Yes but the Earth is deteriorating as we grow. The more people here, the more pollution, the faster the end will come. I'm not saying that in a religious sense, I think we'll all be melted by the sun...lol.

Seriously... :|

Depends how we manage it...but yeah if we keep going like we are at the moment eventually were probably just gonna wipe ourselves out. Although I think we all know what the answer is....

[Vanguard1917]

positions that are hardly ever seen on these forums.

I, of course, hope that that is true. I sincerely hope that people on revleft are sensible enough to see that the expansion of air travel for working class people is a good thing, and not the disaster that the environmentalists (generally middle class people many of whom have themselves travelled the world in almost its entirety) imagine that it is.

But i have my doubts. E.g:


Yes but the Earth is deteriorating as we grow. The more people here, the more pollution, the faster the end will come.

[bcbm]

I want those two minutes of my life back. What a load of shit. If that sort of cack is representative of nihilist anarchism or whatever, you seriously need to examine your priorities.

it wasn't a serious piece. :rolleyes:

i'm also not sure where you pulled nihilist anarchism from.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

it wasn't a serious piece. :rolleyes:

That's the reason it's tagged with "green" and "opinion" rather than "humour", right?


i'm also not sure where you pulled nihilist anarchism from.

I saw it mentioned on the page, but I wasn't sure, hence the "or whatever" part.

[al8]

The volcano is situated under Eyjafjallajökull (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/04/20/the-ultimate-iceland-volc_n_545010.html). We are thinking of naming the volcano itself Gnoðalagardelluþverlverglarjökulskerlingarfjöll to ensure more hilarity.

My guess is that next generation airplanes will take into account volcanic ash contamination, in some ingenious way, in their propeller designs.

As for CO2 emmisions, check out information is beautiful (http://www.informationisbeautiful.net/2010/correction-apology-planes-or-volcano/). The ash plumes contribute to a net decrease of CO2 emissions.

[bcbm]

That's the reason it's tagged with "green" and "opinion" rather than "humour", right?



I saw it mentioned on the page, but I wasn't sure, hence the "or whatever" part.

i'm guessing you don't read anarchist news much... i'm pretty sure it was intended to be just a wee bit satirical, or i guess people believe in an insurrectionary volcano... which is still funny.

[Tifosi]

Some nice pictures of the volcano

http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/2010/04/more_from_eyjafjallajokull.html?camp=localsearch

[Sentinel]

Payback for Global Warming

It don't pay to mess with Mother Nature


The human race is committing self-inflicted extinction.

Payback for global warming? Mother Nature's revenge? Self-inflicted extinction? What's next, the Apocalypse? :ohmy:

Mother nature destroying the sinful technophile, materialist humans, leaving only a handful of virtuous 'believers' to start everything anew in a primitivist utopia where the air smells so clean, so clean ..and everyone looks each other in the eye and says: 'never again, from now on we shall not eat the forbidden fruit from the tree of knowledge, but obey the great Mother and live in harmony with all her children.'

This kind of hysterical doomsday prophecies were exactly what redstar2000 was referring to when he spoke of certain forms of biocentrism as a 'secular rapture'.

This all reminds me of that Fred Phelps guy, who said that God Hates Sweden and that he caused the Tsunami of 2004 mainly to punish all Swedish pedophiles visiting Thailand. :lol:

[La Comédie Noire]

Let's not forget it was a shifty insurrectionist volcano that contributed to the French Revolution.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/apr/15/iceland-volcano-weather-french-revolution
(http://www.kwintessential.co.uk/articles/article/Iceland/Laki-Volcano-Eruption-Iceland/529)

[Stand Your Ground]

Payback for global warming? Mother Nature's revenge? Self-inflicted extinction? What's next, the Apocalypse? :ohmy:

Mother nature destroying the sinful technophile, materialist humans, leaving only a handful of virtuous 'believers' to start everything anew in a primitivist utopia where the air smells so clean, so clean ..and everyone looks each other in the eye and says: 'never again, from now on we shall not eat the forbidden fruit from the tree of knowledge, but obey the great Mother and live in harmony with all her children.'

This kind of hysterical doomsday prophecies were exactly what redstar2000 was referring to when he spoke of certain forms of biocentrism as a 'secular rapture'.

This all reminds me of that Fred Phelps guy, who said that God Hates Sweden and that he caused the Tsunami of 2004 mainly to punish all Swedish pedophiles visiting Thailand. :lol:
I don't call it 'Mother Natures' revenge...I think of it more as a karma type thing. The chemicals we dump in the ocean will come back to kill us.

[Sentinel]

I don't call it 'Mother Natures' revenge... think of it more as a karma type thing.

Well, 'Karma' sounds as much like religion as 'Mother Nature' does to me, so I don't see the difference either way.


The chemicals we dump in the ocean will come back to kill us.


Ok, but what does that have to do with this guy's statement that the volcano was somehow 'payback' for global warming?

[Stand Your Ground]

Well, 'Karma' sounds as much like religion as 'Mother Nature' does to me, so I don't see the difference either way.

Ok, but what does that have to do with this guy's statement that the volcano was somehow 'payback' for global warming?
The Earth is self destructing. For our actions, there are reactions.

[Sentinel]

The Earth is self destructing. For our actions, there are reactions.

So you are seriously saying that the volcano eruption was a result of actions by the human race, more specifically global warming? I really would like to see some scientific evidence for that claim.

Otherwise it belongs in the Religion forum, not here in Sciences & Environment.

[Jazzratt]

The Earth is self destructing. For our actions, there are reactions.

No. Look. The volcano gods being angry at us might have been a great point of view to take on this kind of thing way back when but we're a bit more reasonable now. There is no consciousness at the bottom of this big and scary phenomenon that we need to appease. The volcano would have blown its top pretty much regardless. Just as when it and others like it did back when ugg and ogg thought it was because they didn't sacrifice enough buffalo to the fire lizards in the sky.

I have found you a reasonably simple diagram of a volcanic eruption:
http://www.scarborough.k12.me.us/wis/teachers/dtewhey/webquest/nature/images/Volcano%20diagram.bmp

What may strike you about this picture is that, no matter how hard you look, none of the parts are labelled "vengenful spirit of mother giaia" because nature does not fucking work that way and is all the more impressive for it.

[Stand Your Ground]

So you are seriously saying that the volcano eruption was a result of actions by the human race, more specifically global warming? I really would like to see some scientific evidence for that claim.

Otherwise it belongs in the Religion forum, not here in Sciences & Environment.
Maybe not the volcano, as those have been going off since the beginning of time, but I think it's strange how many earthquakes we've had in the last few months.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

No. Look. The volcano gods being angry at us might have been a great point of view to take on this kind of thing way back when but we're a bit more reasonable now. ... The volcano would have blown its top pretty much regardless. Just as when it and others like it did back when ugg and ogg thought it was because they didn't sacrifice enough buffalo to the fire lizards in the sky.

...

What may strike you about this picture is that, no matter how hard you look, none of the parts are labelled "vengenful spirit of mother giaia" because nature does not fucking work that way and is all the more impressive for it.

This is why you're awesome.


Maybe not the volcano, as those have been going off since the beginning of time, but I think it's strange how many earthquakes we've had in the last few months.

Got anything more substantial than a funny feeling? I mean, I get a strange lurching sensation whenever I look at an image of David Cameron but that doesn't mean he's a reptilian vampire from Rigel VII.

[Jazzratt]

Maybe not the volcano, as those have been going off since the beginning of time, but I think it's strange how many earthquakes we've had in the last few months.

Earthquakes have been going since the beginning of time too, numbnuts. As have hurricanes, tornados and typhoons. Terrifying though they might be they are also devoid of malice, which in the end I think is what irks you. Just like the religious you can't cope with the idea that bad things happen just because of something as mundane as plate tectonics or air pressure you want there to be some overarching malevolence behind it so it doesn't seem so pointless. If god/nature is washing away our homes as a retribution for the gays/hummers you can feel that there is some sort of reasoning to cling to when bad shit happens and, of course, you never have to justify your position on something being wrong because god/nature's punishment is proof enough.

The only reason you're getting that feeling about earthquakes, really, (aside from personifying your own anger in nature and scrabbling for a defense mechanism) is that more people live where they happen now. The same reason that flooding seems worse when more people are living on flood planes. I seriously doubt either phenomenon has happened with a demonstrably greater frequency.

[Dimentio]

Exactly how has the volcano eruption been caused by human beings?

[Stand Your Ground]

Earthquakes have been going since the beginning of time too, numbnuts. As have hurricanes, tornados and typhoons. Terrifying though they might be they are also devoid of malice, which in the end I think is what irks you. Just like the religious you can't cope with the idea that bad things happen just because of something as mundane as plate tectonics or air pressure you want there to be some overarching malevolence behind it so it doesn't seem so pointless. If god/nature is washing away our homes as a retribution for the gays/hummers you can feel that there is some sort of reasoning to cling to when bad shit happens and, of course, you never have to justify your position on something being wrong because god/nature's punishment is proof enough.

The only reason you're getting that feeling about earthquakes, really, (aside from personifying your own anger in nature and scrabbling for a defense mechanism) is that more people live where they happen now. The same reason that flooding seems worse when more people are living on flood planes. I seriously doubt either phenomenon has happened with a demonstrably greater frequency.
Wow. No need to be so hostile. Where did my right go to have my own opinion?

[bcbm]

So you are seriously saying that the volcano eruption was a result of actions by the human race, more specifically global warming? I really would like to see some scientific evidence for that claim.


probably not this specific eruption, but it isn't a completely insane idea (http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=ice-cap-thaw-iceland-volcanoes)

[Jazzratt]

Wow. No need to be so hostile.
I was quite restrained, given.


Where did my right go to have my own opinion?
You still have it. Wonderfully, though, it doesn't negate my right to think it's a moronic opinion and call you out on it.

[Stand Your Ground]

probably not this specific eruption, but it isn't a completely insane idea (http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=ice-cap-thaw-iceland-volcanoes)
Well I think this gives my claim some validity.